ZeL1nK wrote:Actually it is totally different, because being a SK is actually a believable role. Being a self-aligned Jailkeeper with a lyncher-esque win-con? Nope.
All of the reasoning for the Zinger lynch gets demolished by one simple fact: Zinger is a dumbass. He is so much more likely to do this as town than as any other alignment.
Which is why I think he should just be replaced or ignored until he gets replaced.
As I've said, neutral JKs have been around before. The role he claimed is highly implausible, yes, but it does NOT follow from that that he is more likely town. For one thing, he could just be ordinary scum, or, as I think is most likely, he is lying about his powers.
Now, I think it's obvious that Zinger is a VI. However, he has claimed an anti-town role. On your reasoning, our only option for dealing with him is to let him live and hope he gets tired of the abuse and asks for replacement - because, if we don't lynch him for claiming an anti-town role, we really can't lynch him for anything.
MOI wrote:
I’m going to give you a scenario that should help you explain why it is a scumtastic thing.
We have Player A. Player A votes for Player Z in a non-RVS fashion Day 1. Later in Day 1 Player A, in response to a question, says “I didn’t see the reasons for the wagon on Player Z at all”. Is Player A scummy for taking directly conflicting stances on Player Z?
Because regardless of whether you are a hydra or not you are one player – Player A. You as a slot are judged by the same standards as any other slot. You don’t get special dispensation to post in a dissonant manner in thread just because you are a Hydra.
You have conflicts between the heads? Resolve them in QT.
/agree
This is one aspect of hydras that I hate. I've been a hydra head myself in the past, and I refused to make the heads separate (as in, signing off as different players). The analogy to the hydra is actually unfortunate, because a hydra player is meant to be of ONE MIND. Otherwise, playing as a hydra is effectively a massive advantage since it allows you to get away with holding inconsistent opinions - and analysing contradictions is pretty much a fundamental element of most people's scumhunting.
MOI wrote:
I've been Neighborized by two seperate players today. Both have claimed the same mechanics behind how they Neighborize.
I've come to the conclusion that it is unlikely as heck that both are Town. One may be Third Party. One may be Scum. Both might be Scum.
Discuss the ramifications ...
Too much setup speculation involved. Two town neighbourisers seems unlikely in the abstract, but this is a theme game so I think it's best to suspend disbeleif (ie. not assume one of them is prob-scum). Though, you're in the best position to judge their alignments.
Zinger wrote:
I don't care if MS.net is supposedly the best mafia forums around, the people here (and I know I am generalizing, there are obvious people here who don't fit that persona) have given me a horrible first impression of it. Just because you are a member of the most prestigious mafia forums and you've been here for years and can quote theory out the wazoo doesn't make you any better than the noob who started playing his first game 2 hours ago. I'm not just talking for myself either, as I usually don't care when somebody is a dick to me, but I can't stand watching people 'bully' others.
/disagree
This isn't strictly game relevant, but it needs to be said. If you start playing soccer, and kick the ball into the wrong goalposts, you are "doing it wrong", and any other player would be justified in getting angry at you for it. It's the same situation here. Obviously, there is a greater variety of ways that you can play mafia than many other games, but the reality is that, from a theory standpoint, certain modes of play are far superior (in the sense of likely to advance a win con) than others.
The "it's just a game" excuse really doesn't wash when you take into account the fact that for those of us who have a serious commitment to this game, it can be something like three hours a day stretching over a period of months per game. Surely you can see why we get annoyed when we see a newcomer not taking the game seriously and, effectively, causing us to waste our time. It's not that the people on MS.net are more arrogant or bullying, it's that we take the game far more seriously than other sites.
Zel wrote:
Here's the thing. Zinger probably is telling the truth now. He probably is town, and this was probably some fail gambit or something that completely backfired. He's most likely not scum, and the chance that he's actually third party and unnecessarily did all this D1 is also very, very small.
If you're going to vote for Zinger, tell me which part of this line of thinking you disagree with and why. If you're just going to repeat "he claimed Third Party" over and over, ad nauseum, then this discussion goes nowhere. I also don't want to hear any more about how "stupid" it was for him to do; it was stupid to do as any alignment, and being stupid isn't a tell of any sort.
See above.
