Newbie 1104 -- Game over

[Morthas]

@Noragar: Stop defending yourself ffs, make a case on either of us. Your defense isn't working and moreover unless you first make someone to be ATLEAST just as suspicious as you i won't change my voting intentions.

[noragar]

@Noragar: Stop defending yourself ffs, make a case on either of us. Your defense isn't working and moreover unless you first make someone to be ATLEAST just as suspicious as you i won't change my voting intentions.

So I guess telling me to stop defending myself isn't a scum-tell either?

[noragar]

The votes on you were for many more reasons than random voting. Even if it was random voting (and it most definitely was not), your lynch would have clearly shown us later on who was scummy. Those who push for a quick lynch during random voting are almost always scum, since town has no reason to go for a quick lynch. If the circumstances were as you say they were, your lynch would given us a lot of information.

Well, nobody ever told me a valid reason that I was being lynched, so even if the people voting had their reasons, *to me* it seemed like a random lynch. Thus the reason for my comments.

You never pushed towards your partner being lynched. You voted for him when he was almost definitely being lynched that day. Stating that you "pushed for his lynch" is misleading to the extreme. Also, Mafia RoleCop would be way more concerned with staying alive than Mafia Goon. RoleCop is very important to scum's success.

Otolia was not my partner, so it's true that I never pushed for my partner to be lynched. I'll rephrase to make it less misleading. By voting for Otolia, I increased the probability that he would be lynched. At the time that I voted for him, I don't see how it was definite that he would have been lynched had I not voted for him. I didn't even think it was definite after I voted. Earlier in the day, I thought it was certain that I was about to be lynched, thus my resignation posts. Then there was a sudden about face. Even if I were bussing, when you pulled your vote off of Otolia, I could have taken the opportunity to do the same, but didn't.

[noragar]

CC was V/LA when the case on Otolia gained the most momentum. I'm not going to consider his V/LA scummy. He started talking about Otolia's potential scumminess as the case was being built originally, nearly 100 real posts before you did.

You keep saying that CC was V/LA during all of this, but there's nothing in his iso that mentions being V/LA, he was simply lurking.

CC's post was almost 100 real posts before mine was, but came after the wagon on Otolia had started, and this was the time when there was over 100 posts in a 26 hour period. As I stated before, I didn't want to react to the flurry of posts before I had a chance to read them in their entirety, which I couldn't do until the next day. CC's post came at 3:30pm on 5/26. My post came at 4:30pm on 5/27. So his post came before mine, but was in the same general time frame and within the same sequence of events.

Also, after night one, CC made one more post on 5/31, and then disappeared to be replaced by Morthas. Do you think seeing his partner lynched on Day 1 might have had an influence in CC quitting the game immediately after?

[noragar]

Nothing to add at this point. Still voting for Espeonage.

That was a catch up post after another 3 day lurk - lol. If you have nothing to add, reread, reread, reread. Don't post saying you have nothing. Even if you try to grasp for straws, it's better than saying nothing. Who knows, your observations could come in handy down the road, even if they're insignificant now.

Both of my 3 day lurks came when other people were promising major, insightful posts that night, then the next night, then the night after that, then the posts never came (for example, the remainder of Haylen's walls). So I was waiting to see what would be in these posts before adding anything new myself. I try to post only when I have something useful to say. I don't make random posts like "D:" or "HAI GAIZ, U SHUD TTLY SBMT MOAR." or "MORE KETCHUP." just to get my post count up since I wouldn't want town to waste time or be confused trying to interpret them.

[noragar]

It should also be mentioned, because I don't think I've done this yet, that noragar has been very emotional during this day. This could be a result of him feeling backed into a corner as scum. I've said a few times that noragar seems more scummy than Morthas, so noragarscum would be lashing out with everything possible to change my mind. Noragartown would probably be looking more for facts (as well as considering the possibility of me being scum, which he has never done - Morthas has, which is what I expect from the other townie in a LyLo situation).

Yes, it could be a result of me being backed into a corner as scum. Equally likely, it could be a result of me being backed into a corner as town. If I'm scum and get lynched today, I lose. If I'm town and get lynched today, I lose. Why is one more likely than the other?

I have considered the possibility of you being scum several times. I've just come to the conclusion that you aren't. I didn't really state my reasons after I re-examined everyone after Espe and forest were gone and I had no remaining scum reads, but I did in Post #47/#976,

So, just to be sure, I went back and reread the interactions between gbevil and Lord of Graves/Otolia and reconfirmed what I thought all along - that I don't see any way he could be Otolia's partner with the way he pushed toward that lynch when there were several other options that he could have subtly turned his attention to.

I didn't see the need to go into too much depth, since what I needed to accomplish today was to convince you that Morthas was scum and not me. I didn't need to convince you that you weren't scum.

At that point, I was 99% sure that Morthas was the other scum and you weren't, but even throughout today, I've kept that 1% possibility open by not voting for Morthas right away and waiting to make sure you didn't make any kind of slip up. While there have been times in reading your responses today that I just can't understand how you can't see some of the things that are so obvious to me, that's outweighed by the fact that if you were scum, you surely must realize by now that you could just end the day by voting for either one of us and the other would hammer.

So, I'm seeing that 1% as closed and I now have no qualms voting for

Vote: Morthas

and if you actually are scum, I would say "Good Game. You deserve the win.", except that would be seen as "buddying".

[gbevilchaos]

Vote: Morthas

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 5.03

Morthas - 2 - noragar, gbevilchaos

Not Voting: Morthas

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.

Deadline: August 5

[Nobody Special]

It was a tense day in the Village.

Arguments were advanced; stances were taken; tension filled the air.

noragar finally decided that Morthas was the final guilty party. noragar pointed a finger at Morthas, and stood, waiting.....

gbevilchaos ran from the shadows, ripped off his Town costume, and shot them both.

Point blank.

Morthas, Vanilla Townie,

has been lynched.

noragar, Vanilla Townie,

has been killed in endgame.

CONGRATULATIONS, gbevilchaos AND Otolia!

MAFIA HAS WON THE GAME

[Nobody Special]

Night One Actions:
Mafia kills: Twistedspoon
Doc protects: Twistedspoon
Cop investigates: chkflip [zMuffinMan > chkflip is TDoc]
Mafia investigates: forest_air

Night Two Actions:
Doc protects Twistedspoon
Cop investigates Haylen (noragar 1st choice) [Haylen is VT]
Mafia investigates Twistedspoon [Twistedspoon is VT]
Mafia kills forest_air

Night Three Actions:
Doc protects Irrelevant -- deadified (submitted no protect)
Mafia investigates NO ACTION
Mafia kills zMuffinMan

Night Four Actions:
Mafia investigates: no action submitted
Mafia Kills: Twistedspoon

[Morthas]

I'm sad, my reads are shit XD,
Amazing play gbevil ;D

[Nobody Special]

Remind of

this page

postgame. I have a lesson for the newbies. Not posting now as I know I'll be misrepped.

Reminding you.

[zMuffinMan]

hm.

I put too much faith in interactions and didn't look at gb's play itself.

I should have realised something was up when he shut down my logic for calling Haylen town D3 but the constant bussing D1 was just something I didn't see happening, especially in a setup that has 2 possible roles that can confirm innocents with one scum dead (JK confirms because whoever is jailed couldn't do the NK, cop confirms alignment).

meh.

[zMuffinMan]

Also explains why I was getting strong town reads on people based on their play. I really should have put gb's play under a lot more scrutiny instead of just looking at the Otolia links. Lesson learned.

[gbevilchaos]

Good game everyone! If Otolia is still lurking around these parts, sorry I bussed you so hard. LoG was giving off scum tells left and right, so I tried to distance myself from him throughout the day.

[Otolia]

I was expecting it. When in less than a hour 2 persons + your role partner are voting you, just make a case about someone and hope your partner gain credit for your lynch. But you unvoted me once in the meantime and it made me really really worried. But nobody saw it.

Well done \o/.

TS shouldn't have been targeted N1 though.

By the way TS, refusing to give reads D1 isn't always scummy (zMM can confirm :p)

[gbevilchaos]

I unvoted for quick town cred by pressuring Forest, who had never had a vote on her since the RVS. It sounded like a good plan at the time, but I probably could have cruised by without it. I figured that my urging her to hammer and my quick re-vote made up for it.

Yeah, I don't know why I tried for a N1 kill of TS. I was trying to guess at who could be the doc, and I guessed TS (can't remember why, I think I was using some wiki doc tells as my reasoning). It was stupid of me, and I only realized that after the successful protect by Muffin.

[Espeonage]

gb, you gave yourself away a bit towards the end. Were i in lylo I probably would have started pressuring you. Not sure if i would have voted you but I definitely would have pressured you.

Also, NEVER trust logic in three man lylo. It's void.

As for the lesson. I'll take a look. Can't remember exactly. I can remember it was important though so I will post as soon as I remember.

[Espeonage]

Also. About to nom gb for best Newbie.

[Morthas]

Also. About to nom gb for best Newbie.

I support this.

[Espeonage]

Then go to the thread and Nth it.

[Twistedspoon]

meh, I had a big speech in praise of GB but it's all been said now

Otolia seems too sumg though. I might have to lynch him again

[Twistedspoon]

TS shouldn't have been targeted N1 though.

why?

PR fears or did I not look obvtown enough?

Also

@all: IC feedback?

[Twistedspoon]

one last thing

Haylen still needs to do my ISO :p

[Otolia]

TRIPLE POST !

Why do you think I'm smug ? I really decided to get lynched, I posted a town case against you and a rage post for chkflip. So yeah, what I wanted to say is that would have I been town, it would have been almost the same defense. Except for the LoG part (which I din't read and that was a mistake) It's the town fault not to have look into the incentives I had to force a bus over me, I was over the hump when I came into the thread with the 3rd vote being a bus. That was a 'let me bus you' sign, and I acted upon it.

A little bit to directive and enthusiast as IC but I guess your are not that type of player so. Maybe less walls too. It isn't really helpful to newbies.

And you shouldn't have been targeted D1 because you were protown : you put your life on the line. A doc would have protected you, at least from a scum PoV.