Mastin's case pisses me off in terms of how wrong it is.
mastin2 wrote:These are not the same thing. "I voted Yoshi for being the first to confirm. It woulda been a scumtell had you said you preferred to play as scum." That part in both of them is fine. It is the same. The contradiction in here comes from what isn't there. "Pretty RVS". Does not translate to "rather vote someone who might have committed a scumtell rather than Random".
First of all, this is incredibly minor. But, more importantly, when I said "pretty RVS" I meant that it was a very weak vote although I will concede that it isn't random.
However, I fail to see how there is
any
scum motivation to this petty inconsistency.
mastin2 wrote:160 additionally contains some suspicious interactions with WormyKrew, in the form of Ald's "Hardly".
Vague at best. I'd like to see the full story behind this one!
mastin2 wrote:Alduskkel wrote:@Secret Project 104 (not quoting the whole thing): Don't you think it's more likely that Ironhead's posting style change is due to our shift from the goofy RVS/RQS stage to serious mafia business time?
Call it parroting, call it fluff, call it active lurking, call it whatever. This was not new insight, but it was passed off as an attempt to look that way. People had already essentially addressed this as early as Split's post.
Of course it was discussed. But point me to a post where someone raises the idea that the shift was due to a shift in gameplay (RVS-->serious time).
mastin2 wrote:Overall jilynne seriously tells newbtown. And her answer to the RQS regarding experience backs that up (6 ongoing, none finished).
Ironhead... doesn't seem to understand the case against him. Secret Project is accusing you of shifting over to more refined/sophisticated posting to seem more pro-town. He calls it "Appeal to Logic" which is a terrible name in my opinion.
Reading this out of context, it looks like great scumhunting, right? Like it contains valuable insight into the game?
Well, sorry to inform you, there's nothing in there which hadn't been said before. From Jily Newbtown to Ironhead. It also contains a bit of hypocrisy, as guess what Ald quotes immediately after that? A post by Ironhead, which he responds to with
Ald wrote:This reads as OMGUS to me. Obviously when Secret Project asked if everyone was scum in the game, he was using hyperbole, regardless of his alignment. You're nitpicking grammar and basing a vote off of that and the fact that you think that he thinks you're scummy for being logical. This is not the case.
...Casting weak suspicion towards Ironhead.
There's nothing hypocritical there. I did cast suspicion on Ironhead, but there's nothing in my post that contradicts that.
Oh, and what was I supposed to do? Not say anything? jily was in the spotlight, and you'd probably accuse me of lurking or something if I had ignored her. Even if I have nothing new to say, it is for the best if I give my thoughts. Oh, and my Ironhead comments? Were completely new insight. No posts talking about Ironhead not actually understanding the case on him before mine.
mastin2 wrote:DarthYoshi wrote:@Alduskkel: You see Gerhard's derp vote on Jily as a scumtell and not a town tell, why?
That says it better than I ever could.
Thanks for ignoring my answer to this question. *facepalm*
mastin2 wrote:Let me ask you all this: does anyone here disagree with WormyKrew having put one scumbuddy in the town section, and one scumbuddy in the scum section? (Split/Scumhunter/Soben and Gerhard/Captain are both in the scum section.)
It's worthy noting that pretty much all of WormyKrew's suspects were extremely weak, and it REEKS of bussing in there. But what stinks even more is the town-list. Ald had posted pretty much nothing of content at that time--how the heck did WormyKrew get a town-read on Ald? Quite frankly, I do believe WormyKrew just stereotypically followed the "one buddy scum, one buddy town" tactic. This makes all of the Null names town, all of the Town names minus Ald as town, and one of the Scum names as actual scum (Split/Soben), with the others being town. It's almost certainly not Ironhead; those interactions do not look like bussing at ALL. It's VERY doubtfully Alex.
Leaving {Gerhard/Captain, Split/Soben} as containing one scum. You're mislynching Captain, but in doing so, you'll be condemning Soben to death, finally, along with Ald.
Yoshi/Ald containing one scum is pretty much a guarantee. This post where both Yoshi and Ald are mysteriously on the town-list for no apparent reason, kinda solidifies that as one reason among many. And WormyKrew's interactions with DarthYoshi do not give off the scum interacting with scum vibe. (Quite the opposite.) WormyKrew's interactions with Ald suggest...
...
. . .
......WHAT interactions with Ald? (...Yeah.)
So many assumptions! It could have been buddying. It could be that he liked what few posts I had then. You assume that he was following the 1 scum 1 town strategy. I've also pointed out that WK didn't interact with a lot of other people, including ones he put on his town list.
mastin2 wrote:Ald's next post is
251.
Ald wrote:If you're not reading the thread before making a response, you obviously don't care about getting the full information available about your case and vote. Scum, as people not truly interested in catching scum, are more likely to do this.
This is the polar opposite of the truth, and Ald of all people should know this. It's backwards--the people less interested in reading the thread aren't scum. They're town, who're bored. AKA, VTs. (Which fits perfectly with Captain's roleclaim--the slot was playing like a VT. As
Secret pointed out, this applied to Captain just as much as Gerhard.) See also: Jily, a perfect example. She wasn't lying when she said she is more interested in the games where she's scum. And if you doubt that's enough, you can also look into me, and realize that this was close to MY belief as well. I put more attention into interesting games. And while if I was under heavy pressure (AKA, close to being lynched), a town-game would be interesting to me, quite frankly, the scum games held my interest a lot more frequently.
It's a frequent town-tell.
Double standard ahoy. CC and jily are town for disinterest in the game -- but I'm not? Wouldn't it make sense if I was a VT too?
Oh, and I actually believe that scum don't read as close Mastin. I don't lie about theory! No matter my alignment. You could ask me post game and my answer would be the same. It doesn't really apply to the more experienced players (except for lurky ones), but for newer players who don't post a lot (like GK) it's applicable.
mastin2 wrote:??? I can scumhunt and AtE at the same time. I could just build up a decent case but also appeal to emotions (possibly separately).
This was both 1: unnecessary, and 2: condemning interactions with WormyKrew.
1. This was just talking about a bit of theory with WK. 2. You don't support this at all. How is it "condemning"?
mastin2 wrote:Oh god, Newbie 748. What wallful nightmare.
This is another instance of Ald hypocrisy--guess who's been consistently wallposting recently? (Okay, multiple people.
But he's among them, and one of the worst.)
I wall post in response to other walls. I can't help it. I have to respond to things. I don't post nearly often enough so those things accumulate and my next post is a wall.
Also, is this supposed to be a scum tell?
mastin2 wrote:In response to 'if that makes sense', Ald wrote:No, it doesn't.
Tone. Exact wording. As town, he would have asked me to clarify. "This isn't making sense--could you re-word it?" or something like that. Instead, he simply flat-out says, "it doesn't". Essentially, flat-out saying, "you're wrong". Not in a town tone, at all. (Town Tone in this case would be saying "Mastin, to be blunt, you're wrong", or something like that. More to the point. Instead, Ald took the subtle approach to say the same thing, AKA, the scum way of discretely discrediting me.)
I said it that way because that seems like the sort of dry humor, vaguely funny way of responding to what you said. It's amusing because of it's blunt response to something that doesn't usually get that kind of response (how often is "if that makes sense" replied to with "no, it doesn't"?).
mastin2 wrote:Secret's issue with Ald here is also quite valid. (Another reason why Secret likely died...)
I was the 3rd/4th (depending on the head) towniest player to SP. Don't pull bullshit NK speculation on me.
mastin2 wrote:wierdalexv 2 TheWayItEnds,
Secret Project
,
Captain Corporal 2 Alduskkel, Elsa Von Spielburg
jilynne1991 1 Captain Corporal
Secret Project 1 Ironhead
Ironhead 2 WormyKrew, Monk
WormyKrew 3 (L-4) splitfarvie, Darth Yoshi,
Mastin2
Not Voting: jilynne1991, Wiredalexv
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch!
Once more, that's L+1 on the (2) wagons. So once more, there's two scum in there. One of them is WormyKrew, obviously. The other is Ald. (Side-note: with only two (1) wagons, this makes it doubtful that the people there are scum--meaning Captain's far more likely to be town. In other words, that the last scum is likely on WormyKrew at this point.
I don't even know where you're getting this weird VC analysis from. How about you examine the reasons people were doing what they were doing at the time instead of just looking at some broad outline and making poor presumptions from it?
mastin2 wrote:Ald wrote:With regards to the second, I was merely preempting any OMGUS accusations.
I can't find the words to describe just how wrong this statement is. Trying to get rid of OMGUS accusations? When that also implies a (weak) Mastin suspicion never followed up on? When only scum would be worried about being called out on OMGUS'ing in this manner? I dunno, it's. just. so. wrong.
Probably unnecessary, but I figured I'd clear it out of the way without having to possibly waste time on it in the future.
Then why waste the time on it at all, in the present? (Well, past.
But then-present.) Wasted time then is the same as wasted time later, with one difference: scum wasting the time earlier reads as overdefensiveness.
I waste less time by clearing it our earlier with one sentence, rather than having someone tunnel on me for it or something and then having long back-and-forths ensue. Like right now!
mastin2 wrote:(Note to myself: Still waiting for answers to questions in my previous post from DarthYoshi and WormyKrew.)
This is either pointless, or says weak suspicion on both players. Take your pick; either's bad, but it has to be one of them.
It's not pointless. What if I forgot and those questions were never answered? Whenever I make a post I respond to everything between it and my previous post. And if something needs to be kept alive, I need to remember that.
And it's definitely not weak suspicion. That doesn't make sense.
mastin2 wrote:Why is this important? Particularly in the case of the latter,
Ald wrote:WormyKrew wagon is BS with basically no decent reasoning from anyone except DarthYoshi. I'd say that everyone but DY has to explain their reasoning in their next post.
This would be blatant hypocrisy. Additionally, it is about as blatant as a WormyKrew defense can get.
*BANGS HEAD ON DESK*
For God's sake, I've said about a million times that the wagon at the time was basically devoid of reasoning. If you address nothing else in this post, address this. Because with the information I was given at the time I feel I made the right call. It's not some damning connection to WK.
mastin2 wrote:By the way, I may be in the minority here but I vastly prefer wall-poster-Mastin to doesn't-explain-his-reads-Mastin.
TBH this game feels a little dead ATM. Need more posters other than Ironhead, Mastin, Secret Project, and jilynne. splitfarvle is especially missing, and our mod really needs to prod him if that hasn't already been done. It's been over four days now, more than a little ridiculous.
This is all pointless statements. Except for the last two sentences. Those are important. Take a wild guess as to why.
(Hint: it's related to who replaced Split and who my Top Two Scumreads are.
)
Oooh, it couldn't be that I am a town player concerned about the activity of the game. Couldn't possibly be that.
mastin2 wrote:This post also reeks of BS.
It's also the classic scum excuse. "I'm having trouble because *insertnamehere* is posting too much." is one of the oldest Scum Tricks in the book.
Nonononononononono.
It wasn't that SP was posting too much. It's that a bunch of other people were posting too little. SP was there for comparison. You've severely misread the post.
mastin2 wrote:This was also a scum post. Pointless, not scumhunting, degrading my play, trying to weaken my read, casting weak suspicion towards me...I lack the proper words for the exact reason, but those can give you a general idea of just how much scum is in Ald's posting.
How was the post pointless? It's not. Pointless would be if I started posting bunny rabbits and nothing else. Not scumhunting? Fair enough. But other posts of mine do that instead. Degrading your play? Yes. And your play was worth degrading back then. No explanations whatsoever. Trying to weaken your read? WTF else would I do if you think I'm scummy? Strengthen it? What?
Oh, and I definitely was not casting suspicion on you. I was saying you were wrong. But wrong =/= scummy.
mastin2 wrote:Pointless fluff which gives the illusion of being constructive.
Actually it's quick and relevant questioning of CC.
First two are good questionings. Third one is no worse than any old EBWOP.
mastin2 wrote:(In other words, IF Soben were town, they'd be willing to lynch Ald as well.)
Does no one see how ridiculous this is?
mastin2 wrote:Alduskkel wrote:I never said I suspected anyone on the wagon. I just said it was BS. I've said it before, I'll say it again: wrong =/= scummy.
He had...no suspects...on a wagon that went to L-2...why? That kinda reminds me of a post in the "scumslip" thread buried somewhere in MD. Don't remember which it reminds me of off the top of my head, but needless to say, this is EXACTLY the attitude I'd expect from scum.
This continues when he later responds. Seriously, calling so many people on a single wagon, to be town? That means that 1:you're not leaving much room for scum off the wagon, and 2: means the wagon is far more likely to be on scum, which Ald's views did not reflect. 5/7 needed for a lynch-->Ald didn't suspect any of them-->Ald called all five of them essentially "not suspects"-->Ald said the wagon got that far without scum help-->Ald implies that therefore, the wagon is more likely to be on scum-->Ald doesn't follow through-->Ald is scum because of this, among many other reasons.
Makes sense to me.
ARGH! SO! WRONG! THIS IS MADNESS! (expecting obligatory response... bonus points if someone hammers me while saying it... hopefully won't happen though)
OK. Logic time. Just because I said "I never said I suspected anyone on the wagon" doesn't mean that I don't suspect people on the wagon. And it really doesn't mean I'm calling those people town. What it does mean is that DY was putting words in my mouth and I was pointing that out.
mastin2 wrote:Alduskkel wrote:I was promised an explanation of reads from Mastin. RAGE. Okay, not really, but that definitely warrants a virtual smack upside the head. Mastin it has been forever since you said you'd explain yourself, and I was willing to wait until the end of this weekend (like you wanted us to), but now it's just preposterous.
Next post. Explanation of reads. Or a damned good explanation on why you haven't posted them yet.
1: This is fluff. There is no content in this post. 2: This is parroting. These exact words had been spoken by multiple previous players. 3: Tone. This has that very distinct scum tone.
It had to be said because you weren't fulfilling your deadlines. Yes, other people had said it before. I was joining them to nag you into being pro-town.
Also, you don't explain 3 at all.
mastin2 wrote:Alduskkel wrote:Turns out all I needed to get the old Mafia fire in me burning again was to reread this game and start making a wall.
This very well might've been a scumslip.
Mafia is the name of the fucking game.
Can't you see how much you're tunneling Mastin? You're grasping at the most imaginary of straws sometimes.
mastin2 wrote:Alduskkel wrote:Though that's almost to be expected, since I think Mastin gets a lot of his wall-mode playstyle from me.
This is also slight hypocrisy with Ald's past self. If you want proof, look at my Main's Wiki, "Mastin". Paraphrased, a line in there says, "Ha, trying to pin the blame on the players of 688? No, Mastin, pretty sure you developed that by yourself."
Also not scummy.
I obviously have changed my mind. I posted that comment ages ago.
mastin2 wrote:Ironhead wrote:4: Sharp, lucid responses. He pressed Secret Project to answer an old question.
Scum reviving a dead, pointless topic which quite frankly wasn't that important.
He accurately called BS on WormyKrew's assertion that AtE and scum-hunting were mutually exclusive.
1: bussing, 2: that statement was still scummy.
He probed you on your announcement that you were reaction-fishing.
There is no town motivation to question someone who talks about Reaction Fishing. Seriously, I had a game which had a lengthy 5-or-so-page discussion about the subject. All participants were town, chasing the Red Herring.
He questioned mastin2 on an incoherent summation.
1: nothing new. Others had done that before. 2: I'm an easy target. Ald of all people knows this. 3: Context in here is also key, in that he used it to back up his dead read.
He pointed out a hole in Secret Project's logic.
A: trying to discredit town, B: which in the process would weaken their WormyKrew suspicion.
7: Continues to probe mastin2 and Secret Project. Dismisses a very weak suggestion from mastin2 with decent logic.
Refer to previous points, about revivial, discrediting, and easy targets.
13: Continues to probe several players with questions -- including you. His interaction with Soben seems genuine to me.
1: the probing was almost entirely worthless. 2: Probing in this case is null at BEST. 3: In this case, however, it gives a scum-lean, in that Ald was leaving open his options in this case--leaving open a chance to jump onto whoever, for pretty much whatever he wanted. 4: His interaction with Soben is one of the largest giveaways of the scumteam being WormyKrew-Ald-Soben.
Sometimes, you really do get a better case out of picking apart someone's defense of a player than you do by quoting an offense.
(I probably never woulda thought of well over half of those points if not for Iron's defense.)
If you read the top of
Ald's wall, it REEKS of bussing WormyKrew. (...But not following through.)
In it, Ald also pushes both WormyKrew and Secret. (Despite it being pretty common sense that the two of them were pretty much mutually exclusive alignments.)
I'll let Ironhead get this one, since it was his post.
But:
Mastin wrote:2: I'm an easy target. Ald of all people knows this.
No. You're not. Not at all. You ram at people Mastin. This I know from how much I've typed just in response to you. You don't get pushed over. You keep posting. And posting. And posting. And they're almost always walls.
Mastin in response to my 1st wall wrote:That whole post? Casts suspicion on well over half the playerlist. I counted. There's at least eight suspicions in there. WormyKrew, Secret, TWIE, Gerhard (his stale vote), Monk, Alex, Jily, myself.
Maybe not all of them were meant as suspects--but even if they weren't meant as suspects, that therefore means that Ald was trying to discredit them, which is even worse. (I can easily explain why.)
That post was all over the place. It wasn't organized. It was just reread and post my thoughts. It's disjointed, unfocused, and don't really explain my reads too well. Town players drop scum tells too, and I posted those just in case they weren't town.
I wasn't trying to discredit them. A player drops a scum tell or two and I note it and I'm trying to discredit them? Certainly not.
mastin2 wrote:Ald wrote:@Ironhead: Scum wouldn't let jily's vig go through no matter what her target's alignment was if they had anything to say about it. If her target was scum, then obviously they will stop it. If her target is town, they will stop it so that the Town is forced to use a lynch instead of a night kill on the player that was going to be vigged.
Quite frankly, this seems like inside knowledge. Not so much the statement "jily would be blocked regardless of her alignment"--that's pretty null. The REASONS Ald gives, on the other hand, SCREAM of, "this is WHY we blocked her".
Hey, I just thought it through. I give good insight and somehow that's inside knowledge?
mastin2 wrote:Ald says he's looking at Broken, Alex, and Soben. I correctly pointed out how that REEKS of bussing,
I meant look at in terms of "I need to iso these people."
mastin2 wrote:It also seems like it has inside knowledge--looking at this post, it looks like Ald already KNOWS that Jily used her shot, but got blocked. Jily had not posted that, yet. (Why didn't I catch onto that before?!? It's a HUGE scumslip, now that I think about it.)
I wouldn't know if jily had used her shot or not unless I was a tracker, watcher, or jily.
I think that it is no big assumption to think that jily had used her shot. And if it hadn't gone through, then it's also no big assumption to think that a roleblocker is afoot.
Mastin wrote:Alduskkel wrote:While I am not on board for a jily policy lynch, I will lynch jily based on the fact that she is scummy. (See my wall.)
Policy lynching a player-->scum. Jily was, is, and shall always be obv-town in this game. Trying to justify her lynch-->scum move. Honestly. I never, EVER support Policy Lynches, for a dang-good reason. Policy Lynching is lynching someone based off of their general playstyle. This is not the same thing as scumhunting. It's no better (and in fact is far worse) than random lynching. Ald's support for her death makes him far more likely scum.
You talk a lot about policy lynches, but I am definitely not trying to policy lynch jily.
Also, jily is scummy. If she isn't then address what I've said against her.
Mastin wrote:Alduskkel wrote:I'd much prefer it if you actually did some scumhunting beyond gut and some weak scumtells thrown in on occasion.
Blatant scum-coaching-town. Additionally, this does not read as someone who thinks Jily is scummy. This reads as someone who knows Jily is town, and wants to see more from her. Refer to the above, for why his support of her lynch therefore makes him scum.
If jily is town then I wanted her to be more pro-town. If she was scum then I'd want her to talk more so that I could get more potential buddies from interactions.
Addressing jily harshly with the presumption that she is already scum wouldn't get me anywhere.
Mastin wrote:Alduskkel wrote:I picked things that were especially wrong. And that's why it is the weakest part of your argument, because it is particularly wrong.
Ald admits to strawmanning me.
It's not strawmanning if I quote you and respond to it. The more wrong a statement is the more it needs a response.
Mastin wrote:Alduskkel wrote:Yeah, the someone you think is scum right now. If I'm scum, then why did I post that? Are you saying you agree with someone you think is scum, then? Especially on a point about who's scum...
There is no way this line came from town. Using a point he made to try and make himself look far more town than he actually was for it.
Err, DY has done basically the same thing and you obviously think that lines like mine did come from town.
I mean, if you agree with me about who's scum it's a bit weird if you also think I'm scum.
Mastin wrote:Alduskkel wrote:Man, remember when you explained things Mastin? That was great. I remember those days. Good times.
I'd like to see more explaining and less unsubstantiated statements with excessive amounts of smilies.
1: Tone. This is the strongest scum tone in the post. 2: Blatantly false. That was not how I used to be; I've always sucked at explaining things. 3: He wants less of the excessive smileys, which he knows me for. 4: blatant hypocrisy.
1. Why 2. Explaining things badly is different from not explaining at all. The 2nd is what you were doing at the time. 3. I do? 4. How? I don't post excessive smileys and I DO explain myself.
Mastin wrote:Alduskkel wrote:Maybe DarthYoshi is trying to get you to vote for wierdalex because he wants wierdalex lynched because he believes him to be scum, which is the pro-town thing to do.
This is really dumb. I am pretty sure DarthYoshi is town.
1: Scum tone. 2: Trying to get Alex lynched. 3: Defending Yoshi. 4: Degrading my play. 5: Calling Yoshi Town. When it's pretty much common sense (for the multiple reasons I've outlined several times) that one of them has to be scum.
1. Why? 2. No. Not in this post. 3. So? 4. Shrug. Is this scummy? 5. What you think isn't common sense Mastin. Just because I know I'm town doesn't mean I know DY is scum. In fact I've never agreed with your DY read.
Mastin wrote:He also chooses to waste the town's greatest power. A pro-town player has only two tools for catching scum: their voice, and their vote. The latter is quite frankly more important to me than the former. (I believe that someone with a posting restriction of only being able to post votes can still do better scumhunting than pretty much everyone else in the thread. It's why that's my Dream-Post-Restriction--to have absolutely nothing but my Vote as a weapon against the scum. To prove this belief true.) I wrote two guides on why Pro-Town Players shouldn't waste their votes. ("Mastin's Guide To Playing Well" and "Mastin's Guide to VCA" both cover the subject of why there's pretty much no pro-town motivation to not vote.)
Firstly, this is just theory which Mastin is claiming to be true without a doubt. Second of all, I was holding my vote off so that I could do those isos and make a more informed, better vote.
Mastin wrote:Yoshi, you've finally got me thinking you're town. You've managed to convince me of that, and I see it all the time in your posts. Thanks for that.
So you thought DY was scum and saw scumminess all over the place in his posts... but now that you think I'm scum and he's town you can see the towniness in his posts.
It sounds like you
only
saw the towniness after you came to the conclusion that DY was town. Maybe you should try reading my posts with the idea that I'm town and see what comes up. You know, instead of thinking I'm scum and going from there.
Mastin wrote:Scum attitude. Dismissing me AND Yoshi, saying he'll not be paying attention to us until lylo, and scumslipping by revealing he knows we're both town.
??? I did no such thing. If we get to 3-man lylo -- which is what I was suggesting might happen -- then obviously one of you would be scum but having the other also be sure I'm scum would be disastrous. No scumslip there.
That said, I do have a strong town read on DY and a weak/medium town read on you, Mastin.
Mastin wrote:Twistedspoon wrote:page 11
oh look it's CC. well he's town anyways.
Ald just defends himself. No town fruit
^Valid. Both in that CC is town, and Ald's defending himself is rather condemning.
My defense is rather condemning?
I believe I've address all these points before.
Mastin wrote:Scum tend not to believe one of their primary attackers is town.
ARE YOU BLIND?
I think I also addressed that DY post you quoted in 1332 as well.
---
Moving along:
xvart wrote:Alduskkel - I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned this (at least up until page 7): in your first post of the game you open with a bunch of rule clarification questions to the moderator and then talk about how you are one of the more experienced players in the game. With your experience level wouldn't most of these questions be self evident? And, do you have a habit of nit picking the ruleset in your other games?
I do not usually nitpick rulesets. But I do think the wording was somewhat ambiguous and I
am
paranoid about things like that.
Mastin wrote:Alduskkel wrote:ROFL at TwistedSpoon and Mastin reading the same damn post and coming up with complete opposite interpretations.
That said, Mastin, you lob an awful lot of accusations in 1193. I hope you've got something to back up each and every one of those.
Appeal to ridicule, fluff, pointless scum post.
Who am I ridiculing? You or Twistedspoon? Both? I'm not making fun of anyone here. I just think the dichotomy is funny.
Oh, and you never did back up all those accusations. I guess you're planning to, but so far you haven't.
Mastin wrote:Jily suspicion is not town-motivated.
I have actually stated concisely why I believe jily is scummy. So, address that if you're going to call those suspicions scummy.
---
Then you quote a post at Soben and consider it evidence that I'm scum. Sure, if Soben flips scum by all means use that against me. But with him still alive it's useless to try to make connections at this point.
Mastin wrote:Alduskkel wrote:Since jilynne has claimed to be 1-shot that means that even if we nail a Mafia RB she still can't prove her role to us.
Scumslip. Major, MAJOR scumslip. Ald KNOWS there's a real RB. Note that he's calling Jily scum, and even if they nailed an RB, Jily couldn't prove herself. When the only evidence of an RB so far comes from Jily. And if an RB were found, it'd have to be her partner. It all gives MAJOR scum-points to Ald. (How did I miss this before?)
No. jily can be town if the Mafia have an RB. In fact that's basically the only way she can be town.
Of all the roles that would block jily's kill, Mafia RB makes the most sense. Mafia Jailkeeper and even Mafia Doctor are possible, but unlikely when you consider that a 1-shot vig makes it unlikely for there to be a regular vig and and so a protective Mafia role is mostly pointless. An SK is almost certainly not present.
wierdalex also covers this pretty well in 1356.
Mastin wrote:There's also
Alduskkel wrote:You don't know?
Scum tone.
Why?
Mastin wrote:Alduskkel wrote:This is quite possibly because he knew she was scum and wanted to get town points if ever she was killed. Or maybe because he knew she was faking it he perceived her as more scummy and continued to pursue her in that faux town mindset.
Or, Occam's Razor, WormyKrew was scum pushing a mislynch EXACTLY the same way Ald has been.
You know, Occam's Razor applies when one possibility requires less assumptions/the assumptions are fairly like to be true. So explain how it applies here.
Mastin wrote:Alduskkel wrote:They're one of the more rare roles, I think.
Quite false; limited-shot vigilantes seem to appear in pretty much every-other game I play in. (Every-third at WORST.)
What games do you play? Lots of normals? If so, what makes you think that you haven't just encountered a large number of 1-shot vigs or something?
Link me to all the normals that you've seen that have 1-shot vigs. If it's so damn common it'll be easy.
Mastin to post 1206 wrote:The post also contains a ton of Soben interactions, and they're quite condemning.
I'd like to know what's so condemning. Also, my point earlier about Soben being still alive continues to apply.
Mastin wrote:Alduskkel wrote:The bandwagoning and switch from TWIE to me was kind of shameless. But I'm probably OMGUSing at least somewhat.
Not a town way of going about suspicion. He tries to take the best of both sides, leaves open his options, he tries to defend his actions, he tries to justify his weak stance, he doesn't go into specific names, calling out a vague suspicion not followed through on...you get the idea. Pure scum post, with pure scum Motive.
(Context: talking about DY) I mitigate a suspicion because I have an overall town read on DY so I tried to find another explanation for the scum tell. I offer it.
Did you really think I was ever planning on possibly voting DY? There's no good reason for me to leave my options here, it's just my genuine thought process.
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1358: Lots and lots of unexplained tells/reads.
Soben wrote:It will be so freaking lolzy if Ald flips scum, just for the simple fact that mastin will probably STILL push on us tomorrow. R's rage will be so funny to watch.
![:]](./images/smilies/icon_smiling.png "Cheerful Smile")
Well, of course he will if I flip scum. Not sure what you're getting at here.
xvart wrote:Okay, everyone. I'm finished reading but I got deathly sick yesterday and am pretty exhausted (I have a ton of notes that say "look back to prior context, voting, motivation, check such and such, etc." that I was unable to keep track of while congested; and I doubt I'll get my full commentary up before deadline but I'll try my best. I think both leading wagons taste like scum.
VOTE: Alduskkel
I'm actually slightly more confident that CC is scum but I don't have the time/energy to advocate for it. And this is good, too.
xvart, switch to CC. It's obvious you prefer that lynch over mine, and you can help make it happen. My vote switch to him makes his lynch more plausible.
