Mini 1195: The Beehive Mystery (GAME OVER)

[Llamarble]

fuck it, i really don't care, this day needs to end ASAP

In my experience the biggest difference between games that town wins and games it loses are that town wins look like RAWR LETS LYNCH THESE GUYS and scum wins look like EVERYBODY IZ PARALYZINGLY INDECISIVE & DEMORALIZED LETS COMPROMISE ON THE LYNCH SCUM WANT. Assuming you're town you're kind of throwing the game here.

Ice what is this mild scumread of me you keep mentioning motivated by?

Tommy, the opinions you left off your list were Giitah, who said he didn't want to lynch me, and Blinker/Spoon whose votes indicate they preferred a Giitahwagon over mine. And lynching by Condorcet is a terrible idea anyway as it makes the scum "I'mma make sure that the lynchcandidate who is scum isn't the one who gets lynched" plan even easier to execute than normal. Assume my hammer is a towntell. Is there ANYTHING ELSE that would make you want to lynch me? Actually that's directed at everyone. Because seriously there is no way I would have done that as scum. Just because it's WIFOM doesn't mean it isn't true.

If people still want to hammer and promise not to ignore them like town always seems to then I will read some more and collect important insights together tomorrow to leave you with in hopes the game can be salvaged.

[Beck]

the way I look at it is it comes down to either you or Gittah today, I think you are both scummy and we have a deadline approaching.

I don't see you doing anything and you still haven't explained your Sub vote, when you said you were, you came back with some shit on SK which seemed really trite

you have made many excuses for your activity throughout the game also.

And again, the rush to end day 1 was really un-necessary, the fact that people were turning attention to you and you panicked, means you felt like you were going to be unable to defend yourself.

I still think scum is dumb to hammer a townie, but I guess it isn't impossible, and clearly people think I am weird for thinking that so maybe i'm wrong. I personally would try and never hammer somebody as scum, but than again what do i know really.

You have about 24 or so hours, do something to convince us to change our mind.

[Tommy]

I mean the immediate next post we made after the post you made and quoted.

Oh I see. So you both suspect me, but only the Fool has posted a case, and even that was retrofitted onto an existing read. And you, the aptly-named Terrible, point-blank refuse to present any kind of case at all. Stop me if I'm being unfair.

Tommy, the opinions you left off your list were Giitah, who said he didn't want to lynch me, and Blinker/Spoon whose votes indicate they preferred a Giitahwagon over mine.

Giitah responded by scattering six points over six candidates, which made little difference. You're right that rblinker and Spoon could put Giitah into the top three if they chose to. But whatever they do, you'll still be the runaway favourite.

And lynching by Condorcet is a terrible idea anyway as it makes the scum "I'mma make sure that the lynchcandidate who is scum isn't the one who gets lynched" plan even easier to execute than normal.

True. But we're at a bit of an impasse, and that's a bad reason for a no-lynch.

Assume my hammer is a towntell. Is there ANYTHING ELSE that would make you want to lynch me?

Not really. You lurked on day 1, but if it wasn't for the circumstances surrounding your hammer, I'd be campaigning against Ivan.

Just because it's WIFOM doesn't mean it isn't true.

Bless you for trying that.

[Ivan the Pleasant]

Meh. That's fair.

Ivan the Fool can do what he wants. He'll be back soon and then you'll get yours unless he has enough sense to go after Subgenius first.

What possible reason could there be for me to post a case anyway? If I did post one you wouldn't get lynched, you'd just have the entire night phase to discuss with your buddies on how best to diffuse the case/defend against it. No thank you.

[Tommy]

What possible reason could there be for me to post a case anyway?

How about because the day's about to end, you're not sure you'll survive the night, and you want the town to have all the information they need tomorrow?

[Ivan the Pleasant]

Was that a threat?

[subgenius]

I think that's reminding you that it's unwise to make your plans based on the assumption that you won't be NK'd, because you might end up inadvertently denying the town your oh-so-insightful opinions.

[Tommy]

Unless of course you're scum, in which case you're perfectly safe from night-kills and might well be talking the way Ivan is.

[Beck]

Anyone play with either archaebob or foilist?

Is this normal behavior cause seriously it's quite annoying

Yeah you can say what you want, about assuming your other head, foilist said almost identical phrasing in his vla in another game.

So, do they normally play so vague?

[Magic Trainer]

They're both brilliant, amazing players. I used to read a lot of their games when I started out. I suppose you could say I'm a fan. They're usually really direct and blunt. They're not afraid of picking fights. I don't think I've ever played with either them individually, but ICE played a game with foilist once.

[Beck]

So sort of like they are doing now?

[Magic Trainer]

Nah, they're usually more active. Here they're kinda "hur hur this guys scum.... maybe I'll explain when I feel like it."

Pretty cool reading material. Town win day 2, no town deaths.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 53&t=14954

[Beck]

I'll read that soon

[Llamarble]

VOTE: Giitah
Just can't get enough Sub votes because of Blinker/Spoon lurking.
Giitah at least might flip scum.

I'm a VT, BTW.

[Magic Trainer]

That's a scummy as fuck vote Llama, Scum Giit would have hopped on your wagon immediately, instead he's putting effort into getting reads. And YOU agree to an extent.

What happened to that? What happened to posting a sub case?

Slightly relevant: Btw, iirc there was one mini normal with 3 masons, anyone know which game it was?

[Llamarble]

Yeah I do agree.
Right now I'm just trying to secure the lynch of somebody who could be scum over somebody I know isn't (me).
I have extremely strong self preservation instincts as both alignments, though at least as town I don't lie outright to improve my standing. Actually, one more way things would have been different if I were scum is that

I would have found a way to retract my townread on Acronach before hammering

. I'd have considered the fact that there was at least one other player who wanted to hammer Acro and let them do it to make the town-lynching-wagon as town as possible, and I'd have considered the fact that I could avoid huge amounts of trouble by just making an epiphany wall about how scummy Acro was and voting him. Instead I totally ignored manipulation of politics and made the vote I thought made most sense and was honest about not really thinking Acro would flip scum.

I don't see how we get enough votes onto Subscum to lynch him, but I guess I'll
VOTE: Sub
I just don't like that the only vote on me that isn't HORRIBLE AND BARNACULAR is Beck's, and that one will only move if it's to Giitah. Also I don't see Blinker/Spoon showing up to vote for sub. Thus my vote for Giitah. But mreh.

And I'll make cases if people promise to really consider them tomorrow.
Dead town gets pretty much totally ignored so I feel like I'd be spending a lot of time for nothing.

[Beck]

To quote inigo Montoya. "you keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means"

[Beck]

Marble, you have less than 10 or 11 hours to convince people you are town

Don't say stuff like "Dead town gets ignored"

That's giving up. And if you flip town, your reads are just as important. That's what Tommy is trying to explain to the Ivans. Keeping your reads to yourself deny the rest of us valuable information.

[rblinker123]

Request Replacement

[Beck]

Its almost deadline, can you just finish the day?

[rblinker123]

Well Beck, yeah i can but i wont really be active.

[rblinker123]

MOD: Unrequest Replacement

i'll stay until the days over if thats ok?

[subgenius]

@Llama

I don't think either blinker or CS were very into the case against me anyway, but you'd stand a better chance convincing them if you had put the effort into making a case like you said you would instead of blatantly changing your vote out of self preservation again.

Also, you continue to say that if you were scum you would have waited for someone else to drop the hammer since it almost certainly would have happened if you waited. The thing is, if you thought someone else would drop the hammer, why wouldn't you let them do it regardless of whether or not you were scum? The defense doesn't make sense as town or scum. If you were so sure someone else would have dropped the hammer, why did you feel so in danger in the first place? Thinking that Acro would have been hammered by someone else doesn't jibe with you feeling that you were in immediate danger.

[Magic Trainer]

I'd have considered the fact that there was at least one other player who wanted to hammer Acro and let them do it to make the town-lynching-wagon as town as possible, and I'd have considered the fact that I could avoid huge amounts of trouble by just making an epiphany wall about how scummy Acro was and voting him.

...What the hell does this have to do with anything?

Anyway, you clearly told us yourself that it was late, and you can't think properly when you're tired.

How the fuck are you supposed to perform some sort of master plan when you ALSO state you can't think properly during those hours? This isn't adding up.

I'm Okay with hammering Llamarble.

[Giitah]

Waiting to hear what Llam says to that.

@Beck
Case on you is up, I have nothing. I'm not good at writing long analysis posts nor do I have abob's talent at attacking, so all I can do is just state my gut on this one.
I feel the transformation of opinion of the town on Ivan and Sub was a bit too much of a coincidence, and that you had too much of a hand in it. In addition, I also noted that you associated with Ivan a fair amount in your ISO, making me wonder if it's simply a coincidence that you attacked the same player that Ivan had been dropping hints was scum since day 1. Case in point, I have nothing on you, but I feel there's a likelyhood that if Sub turns up innocent, your scumpartner's with Ivan.