Mini 1195: The Beehive Mystery (GAME OVER)

[subgenius]

I skimmed that game Magic Trainer linked of Archaebob and Foilist. I won't comment on Foilist's play since I have no proof that he is one of Ivan's heads, but I will say that I'm not seeing much of the town Archaebob play from that game in Ivan's play this game. I don't put a lot of faith in meta, since I have yet to see anyone definitively caught based on it, but Archaebob was active, logical, and seemingly eager to explain his opinions in that game. I see little of that in this game. I've also mentioned his MD thread about proper town play (Fundamental Mentalities + Good Day 1 strategy), which bears little resemblance to Ivan's play this game. It's difficult to know how applicable this sort of thing is to a hydra, but it certainly agrees with my pre-existing scum read of Ivan.

Still supporting a Llama lynch, but I liked that link from Magic.

[Beck]

Waiting to hear what Llam says to that.

@Beck
Case on you is up, I have nothing. I'm not good at writing long analysis posts nor do I have abob's talent at attacking, so all I can do is just state my gut on this one.
I feel the transformation of opinion of the town on Ivan and Sub was a bit too much of a coincidence, and that you had too much of a hand in it. In addition, I also noted that you associated with Ivan a fair amount in your ISO, making me wonder if it's simply a coincidence that you attacked the same player that Ivan had been dropping hints was scum since day 1. Case in point, I have nothing on you, but I feel there's a likelyhood that if Sub turns up innocent, your scumpartner's with Ivan.

That's a huge stretch

You don't even consider the possibility that if Sub flips town, I'm still town?

I'm automatically scum with Ivan, with a sub town flip?

That's really weak

[Llamarble]

Well I'm even more unlikely to make a very risky decision at that hour, and even at 4:15 AM I'm sufficiently operational to do basic scum things like letting town lynch each other themselves.

[Magic Trainer]

FUCK THAT.

Last words or I'll kill you.

It better be good Llama.

Just look at the end of D1.
I say "we shouldn't lynch Acro" and the next 4 posts are "maybe we wagon marble instead"

and then I'm like WELL FUCK THAT

and hammer.
I did not have enough townleaderpoints to make a new wagon happen on somebody I actually wanted to lynch.

It makes perfect sense for you to be scum freaking out now that you're bull shitting about it.

[Beck]

He is at L-1 right?

[Magic Trainer]

Yeah. Don't unvote,

He'll come around.

[Beck]

I'm not unvoting

[Beck]

And I'll do a full read through in the night phase. I will hopefully be able to track down beter evidence on sub.

[Ivan the Pleasant]

An Llmarble lynch is unacceptable. We will be looking very carefully at everybody on that wagon if the lynch goes through. You all need to flashwagon subgenius for a mafia lynch.

[Scott Brosius]

An Llmarble lynch is unacceptable. We will be looking very carefully at everybody on that wagon if the lynch goes through. You all need to flashwagon subgenius for a mafia lynch.

And when we lynch Llamarble scum? What then?

[subgenius]

Ivan, I have trouble believing that you actually think you're accomplishing anything with your last few posts. You're just running your mouth off without contributing anything, and you probably realize it. Yet, you don't do anything about it.

[Beck]

An Llmarble lynch is unacceptable. We will be looking very carefully at everybody on that wagon if the lynch goes through. You all need to flashwagon subgenius for a mafia lynch.

I am fine with either wagon, but not a lot of people agree that he is sheeping his earlier votes and nobody finds his change in attitude is much of a sign, this is where other people who support his lynch would point to the things they picked out in the game that point to him being scum to convince people.

We are a few hours from deadline you know...

[Magic Trainer]

How many hours till deadline?

[Tommy]

22 hours and 45 minutes.

[Beck]

Day Two: Vote Count Nine

Subgenius (3)- Ivan the Pleasant, Magic Trainer, Llamarble,
Giitah (2)- Captain Spoon, rblinker123,
Llamarble (4) - Scott Brosius, Tommy, ICEninja, Subgenius,


Not voting: (2) – Giitah, Beck,

With 11 alive, it’s 6 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2011-07-22 17:00:00). (5 PM EST on July 22.)

rblinker123 has been stung.

Captain Spoon will be stung in 17 hours

this is confusing, cause if it is really 22 hours from the time of that post, it is past the deadline

[Beck]

I thought the deadline was today, I guess it is tomorrow. I take the written out date and time as final word

[Llamarble]

Yeah, he has it set as a countdown.

Time to explain Subgenius scum. Hopefully clearly enough to be post-death-sheepable.

[Beck]

oh, lol I didn't realize that

[Beck]

unvote

I wanna hear this without a quick hammer

[Ivan the Pleasant]

I suggest everybody simple ISO Subgenius. It should be obvious why we ought to lynch him. He posts with EXTREME care in what he is saying and exactly how he is saying it. He is not doing that in a town way, i.e. finding scum, but is doing it in a scum way, i.e. avoid stepping on toes and attracting attention. He is keeping up a good enough posting rate to not be accused of lurking, but no more. He leaves himself an out with every post. He remains on the fence even when he is voting. He demonstrates a gradual progression every time he changes his mind.

Come on people.

[Beck]

I agree with you on Sub, I also thing one of marble/giteh is scum

Anyone doubt Sub is scum, look at how hard he pushed on me, I defended myself properly, than he posts number 952 which is a big steamy pile of poo

I never seen anyone back off like that ever

[subgenius]

Ivan, you're really accusing me of posting just enough to not get accused of lurking when I have the second highest number of posts and nearly twice as many as you? Sorry you think that gradually forming and changing opinions is a scum tell. It's just the way I think about the game.

@Beck
Isn't the point of defending yourself to make the other person back off? I began to realize that my case wasn't making sense, so I backed off.

[Beck]

I have never in my history of mafia seen anyone back off like that

[subgenius]

Well, I can't really argue with that, but just because you've never seen it doesn't make it scummy, just unusual.

[Beck]

Unusual is scummy