Open 320- Tit for Tat: Game Over!

[SleepyKrew]

Cool, I'm getting sheeped

[verydark]

@verydark:

How many games have you played? Have you played any games in real life / on other sites?

This is my 3rd game here. My first I was lynched D1, my second is currently going on and I'm in D2. I decided to try a game on the open boards because the newbie games were moving waaaayyy too slow. I played on epicmafia for like one hour and got annoyed with all the trolls. So, yeah, this is basically my ONLY experience.

Oh look, one of my favorite new tells. The “ooops it was a Newb mistake I didn’t understand the clearly posted Set-up in an Open Game” tell. Who pulled that same sort of play in Umbrage’s “Jungle Republic” Mafia? Cjdrum and Neil1113 both did, and both were Mafia.

So here, have this!!

VOTE: Verydark

Thanks. I love how all these "scum tells" I keep tripping for you all revolve around my inexperience, or my aversion to lynching VE (who was town, if you don't recall). It's these sensationalist accusations that gets townies killed. As I mentioned several times, I refuse to support lynches with little to no valid reasoning. It seems to me like everyone voted for VE to get him to shut up, and THEN made up a reason as to why.

I notice many players here are in a huge hurry to finish the game. Go play epicmafia. I came here because I like a longer game with more information and more time to assess everyone.

Gamma, you SO owe me for this game.

I don't want to see a page 13 today. He dies in the next 3 pages.

I hope no one else listens to you because

clearly

you don't want to be here.

[Gammagooey]

Yeah as you've already figured out from the first post Seraphim is on V/LA until July 23rd.

Votecount #9

SigmaEXE003(2) SleepyKrew, Magua
malpascp(1) StefanB
verydark(1) MagnaofIllusion
SleepyKrew(1) Lady lambdadelta

Seraphim(0)
Magua(0)
Lady Lambdadelta (0)
StefanB(0)
MagnaofIllusion(0)

Not Voting: Seraphim, SigmaEXE003, malpascp, verydark

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Day 2 Deadline is: Wednesday, August 3rd 6:00pm EST

[malpascp]

A random vote is an unjustified vote. Please write your reasoning on your votes, even it looks soooo obvious to you. Otherwise, some people (like me) can consider it a random vote. Obviously, I think noone here thinks the start of D2 has RVS too.

Sigma lurked, but he didn't say nothing about that, what is suspicious. Although, noone asked him directly about that, so he kinda has a pseudo-excuse. If you want to say something about your low activity, please do it now.

There are 4 more people here that thought VE was scum. You can ask them too, but we all had extremly reasonable reasons to vote him. He just wasn't town.

My reads are very blurry right now. I have a slight town read on SK, after his first posts on D2. Altough, his recent interactions with LLD make me think about a scumteam.
Other person that is under my scumdar is Magua, but that's more gut that anything else, despite his side-line comments.

Vote:Lady Lambdadelta

[SleepyKrew]

What's so townie about my D2 posts?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

... What the hell is up with Very Dark's defense of SleepyKrew?

@Magna, Magua: Can we form a town voting block? There's some shit that needs to be taken care of in this game currently.

[SleepyKrew]

Where did verydark defend me o.o?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@verydark:

How many games have you played? Have you played any games in real life / on other sites?

This is my 3rd game here. My first I was lynched D1, my second is currently going on and I'm in D2. I decided to try a game on the open boards because the newbie games were moving waaaayyy too slow. I played on epicmafia for like one hour and got annoyed with all the trolls. So, yeah, this is basically my ONLY experience.

Oh look, one of my favorite new tells. The “ooops it was a Newb mistake I didn’t understand the clearly posted Set-up in an Open Game” tell. Who pulled that same sort of play in Umbrage’s “Jungle Republic” Mafia? Cjdrum and Neil1113 both did, and both were Mafia.

So here, have this!!

VOTE: Verydark

Thanks. I love how all these "scum tells" I keep tripping for you all revolve around my inexperience, or my aversion to lynching VE (who was town, if you don't recall). It's these sensationalist accusations that gets townies killed. As I mentioned several times, I refuse to support lynches with little to no valid reasoning. It seems to me like everyone voted for VE to get him to shut up, and THEN made up a reason as to why.

I notice many players here are in a huge hurry to finish the game. Go play epicmafia. I came here because I like a longer game with more information and more time to assess everyone.

Gamma, you SO owe me for this game.

I don't want to see a page 13 today. He dies in the next 3 pages.

I hope no one else listens to you because

clearly

you don't want to be here.

[SleepyKrew]

That seems more like an attack on you than a defense on me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That seems more like an attack on you than a defense on me.

That's called a Chainsaw defense, Sleepy.

And it's discrediting my views, reads and vote... so it IS defending you.

[SleepyKrew]

Every game I play, people define chainsaw differently...

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Every game I play, people define chainsaw differently...

The actual definition of a Chainsaw defense is when one player attacks another player, based upon their vote for a third player.

So Player A votes Player B.

Player C attacks Player A, usually trying discredit them or call them scum.

Player C is chainsaw defending Player B, from Player A.

[SleepyKrew]

Alright, that makes sense, thanks.
Wanna vote teh scumz now?

[Magua]

A random vote is an unjustified vote. Please write your reasoning on your votes, even it looks soooo obvious to you. Otherwise, some people (like me) can consider it a random vote. Obviously, I think noone here thinks the start of D2 has RVS too.

Sigma lurked, but he didn't say nothing about that, what is suspicious. Although, noone asked him directly about that, so he kinda has a pseudo-excuse. If you want to say something about your low activity, please do it now.

There are 4 more people here that thought VE was scum. You can ask them too, but we all had extremly reasonable reasons to vote him. He just wasn't town.

My reads are very blurry right now. I have a slight town read on SK, after his first posts on D2. Altough, his recent interactions with LLD make me think about a scumteam.
Other person that is under my scumdar is Magua, but that's more gut that anything else, despite his side-line comments.

Vote:Lady Lambdadelta

I love everything about this post except that vote.

[malpascp]

@Magua:Can you tell me why is that?

[StefanB]

MoI: No not the partyheads, Magua and Sleepy for the beginning of day 2,
Sleepy and LL fooling around later an.
You, Magua and LL in a game together.
Yes there was no conection of you and Sleepy sorry.
Partyheads (oops!) didn't even realise that.

Since I have never played an open before, only the semiopen in the newbiequeque I don't share the scumtell from experience.Okay I have seen townies misunderstood the newbiesetup before, but how could VD missunderstood the vig, one of the most popular roles in Mafia?

On Sigma: I have seen people beeing a lot more relucant with L-1, exspecially early in the day. For some the danger that a townie hammers is to big. If I read a certain name in the playlist again, I would be very relucant to L-1 a player. Sigma who is/was your second suspect. Anythink to add? I don't think MoIs scumtell is completly wrong, so even if I understand your relucance at sending someone at L-1, give us somethink to work with.

I agree with VeryDark that we should slow down a bit. (so not necessary lynching on page 13)

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Magna, Magua: Can we form a town voting block? There's some shit that needs to be taken care of in this game currently.

I’m certainly amenable to that. Consider me in!

--

That's a huge stretch. I haven't read Open 302, but neither cjdrum nor Neil1113 are newbies. verydark is. I had a townread on him even before the vig comment because his D1 play shows he obviously cares...unlike Seraphim or Sigma.

1. So you are saying that verydark is Town because he care? So scum, inherently don’t care?
2. I’d like you to assess your standards as to what constitutes a “newb”

Verydark joined this site on May 17, 2011. This game started on July 11, 2011. So that gives him an approximate tenure of 2 months at at the start of the game.

Open 302 – Jungle Republic started on April 26, 2011.

CJdrum joined MS on Februrary 21 2011. So that’s the same approximate spread.

You may find it a ‘huge’ stretch. I find it something worth noting and based on verydark’s play enough to support my vote at this stage.

--

What I'm getting at is you assumed he was scum, and then noted that if he was scum, he would know who the townies were. I bolded "It’s quite easy to discern they are clearly Town before the flip when they aren’t in your Role-PM as your buddies …" for a reason.

I drew a read that verydark is scum for his Day 1 play. When posting I indicated that I believed he was “Town-Cred” fishing scum for calling Viscera Town so strongly even before the flip.

You reasoning here is “The way you indicate you think he is scum invalidates your reasons why”. Which is frankly absurd.

Well, it could genuinely be a noob mistake. But maybe that's what he wants you to think, and it's actually a scum gambit. But maybe he knows you know that, so he wouldn't try a gambit like that. But maybe he thinks you think that, and thus could feasibly get away with the gambit...

And it goes on.

Ok, so by your standards any ‘slip’ or ‘tell’ is WIFOM. That’s good to know.

I wasn't even advocating VE's lynch. I was just saying what he had done so far was suspicious. Not to mention the AtE was a small part of my case. It was mostly his backtracking. I had intended to wait longer to get reads on more than one person before placing a vote.

So you weren’t advocating his lynch but found him suspicious. There’s a word for playing both sides of the fence like that …

--

Thanks. I love how all these "scum tells" I keep tripping for you all revolve around my inexperience, or

my aversion to lynching VE (who was town, if you don't recall).

It's these sensationalist accusations that gets townies killed. As I mentioned several times, I refuse to support lynches with little to no valid reasoning. It seems to me like everyone voted for VE to get him to shut up, and THEN made up a reason as to why.

I’ve highlighted the bolded to address it specifically. I wanted to address it specifically.

I do recall VE ended up flipping Town. Thanks for assuming I have the attention span of a sugar buzzed 5 year old. My issue is that you came in ‘guns blazing’ that he was absolutely Town before the Mod flipped him. Town has no reason to be so absolutely sure as they are the Uniformed Minority in this game where there are no Daycops or Masons. I’ve seen enough scum ‘Grandstanding’ on lynches for Town credit that when I see someone indicating that they are operating from a position of more information than they should have I find it scummy.

But since you were so absolutely sure that Viscera’s wagon was scum heavy who are your top three candidates for scum from there?

I notice many players here are in a huge hurry to finish the game. Go play epicmafia. I came here because I like a longer game with more information and more time to assess everyone.

Who are these ‘many players’ you are speaking of? The only person I see advocating a quick-lynch at this point is LLD. Magua himself is advocating waiting for Seraphim’s return before taking any significant action. Any reason you are using such sensationalist words and overblown assertions here?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

MoI: No not the partyheads, Magua and Sleepy for the beginning of day 2,
Sleepy and LL fooling around later an.
You, Magua and LL in a game together.
Yes there was no conection of you and Sleepy sorry.
Partyheads (oops!) didn't even realise that.

Since I have never played an open before, only the semiopen in the newbiequeque I don't share the scumtell from experience.Okay I have seen townies misunderstood the newbiesetup before, but how could VD missunderstood the vig, one of the most popular roles in Mafia?

On Sigma: I have seen people beeing a lot more relucant with L-1, exspecially early in the day. For some the danger that a townie hammers is to big. If I read a certain name in the playlist again, I would be very relucant to L-1 a player. Sigma who is/was your second suspect. Anythink to add? I don't think MoIs scumtell is completly wrong, so even if I understand your relucance at sending someone at L-1, give us somethink to work with.

I agree with VeryDark that we should slow down a bit. (so not necessary lynching on page 13)

Why slow down when there is scum to be lynched?

Do you want to promote town apathy?

Do you perhaps encourage giving scum more time to wiggle their way out if situations, and look for potential mislynches?

[SleepyKrew]

Hey malp, answer my question?

General question to all those that know MoI well:
Does he usually give off this residual aura of townishness even as scum?

MoI, if you're doing a voting bloc with LLD, you need to be voting me.

Stefan, how have I been joking around with LLD? She did a reactiontest and I defended myself. Nothing joking around about that.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI, if you're doing a voting bloc with LLD, you need to be voting me.

That's not (strictly, anyway) how a voting block works. The block discusses who they think it is best to vote as a group and does so. Each member has an equal voice in the process. As much as I think LLD can be a powerful Town force I'm not about to immediately subordinate my own scum-hunting to her.

Are you worried that the block will be voting you?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hey malp, answer my question?

General question to all those that know MoI well:
Does he usually give off this residual aura of townishness even as scum?

MoI, if you're doing a voting bloc with LLD, you need to be voting me.

Stefan, how have I been joking around with LLD? She did a reactiontest and I defended myself. Nothing joking around about that.

MoI actually gives off a residual scummy aura, due to his playstyle. I am always twitching at how he says things, but I ignore it for the most part.

P-Edit: MoI's absolutely right. His VeryDark vote is a good one, and its not like I'm not considering it. Especially after how VD discredited my SleepyKrew vote...

[Lady Lambdadelta]

EBWOP: Re: MoI's playstyle

That's how I see it anyway. I don't trust my gut reads on him, because I am generally WRONG. He's one of the few I can't get at least a slight gut twinge on. (Fate's another, though that's for a COMPLETELY different reason and he/MoI are totally different).

When reading MoI, I always use Intent. That doesn't seem to fail me often. I have intent read on MoI town this game.

[SleepyKrew]

Okay, I thought blocs were always on the same person.
No, I'm not worried about being voted, I just wanted to point out that that's where her vote was.
Thanks for the MoI stuff. Is the aura of townishness I'm getting just his reputation then?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Okay, I thought blocs were always on the same person.
No, I'm not worried about being voted, I just wanted to point out that that's where her vote was.
Thanks for the MoI stuff. Is the aura of townishness I'm getting just his reputation then?

Has Been Killed N1.

Seriously though, you need to make your own conclusions about that kind of read. I can't tell you what your gut reads mean, you need to figure that out yourself.

The best I can do is give you a heads up if I start to see MoI as scummier. And I don't think that's the case this game.

tl;dr: They're your reads, not mine.

[SleepyKrew]

Yes, I have a townread on MoI, but it's always nice to have a bit of first-hand experience way in. You having a townread on him strengthens mine.