TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[marco1610]

For some reason, I wasn't getting any subscription updates about this thread. I'll catch up now.

[Meransiel]

EasJo(2) Oversoul (2) have been prodded

V/LA for 7 days

Mod: Confirmed, enjoy your V/LA

[MagnaofIllusion]

Mod – I’ll be V/LA from today at 4pm EST until Monday for my usual family weekend duties. And Saturday is a guaranteed bust because we are going to a Baseball game.

Mod: Confirmed, enjoy your V/LA

--

You quoted post 742 in post 803, completely ignoring the fact I admitted in post 744 that I had hit "submit" instead of "preview". Post 744 and, by extension, 746, were direct responses to Zel1nk. How exactly you can quote post 742 in relation to post 694 is beyond me, given that in 741, Zel1nk says, and I quote, "If you're going to vote for Zinger, tell me which part of this line of thinking you disagree with and why." That is what 742 and 744 were in regards to. 746 was in regards to Zel1nk's response, post 745.

Great. Way to not answer the question at hand with a large swath of numbers.

Here’s the relevant facts –

At post

694

you posted the following –

And also, are you willing to tell us the names of the people who've neighbourized you? I'm inclined to agree that both aren't likely to be town, so by having the two names we can analyse who's more likely to be non-town..

This is role-fishing, IMO, in trying to narrow down the pool of suspects for other Power roles.

At

709

Meransiel correctly identifies it as suspect posting with this …

I don't like this at all.

Vote: david Xanatos

At

803

I specifically agree with Meran with the following …

Meran earns Town cred for this post. Because he’s not liking what is probably an example of “role-fishing by proxy”.

That’s the issue at hand. Your trying to link it to a number of other posts is irrevant to the discussion and scummy, IMO.

In addition, my first response was at 7:45PM on Thursday, you posted twice in another topic at 2:01am and 4:09am, in addition to 4 further posts elsewhere over the course of the afternoon. If that's you "not personally posting", I suggest you contact Mith about your account being compromised.

Your post

813

where you give the irrelevant links was made Thursday, July 21 at 2:45pm EST.

Your post where you charge me with ‘avoiding’ a response is

846

, made on Friday July 22 at 6:56 am EST.

During that time I have EXACTLY two posts on MS.

One at Thusday July 21 at 9:01pm EST in a sign-up thread.
One at Thursday July 21 at 11:09 pm EST in the same sign-up thread.

Both of which was made via my Android phone. None of which were made in actual game threads.

Any reason you specifically fabricated the 2 game posts and 2 mystery posts above? Because time-stamps prove that you are making that up.

And in addition, looking through both your and Meran's ISOs, at no point did you ask me to defend or expand upon my questions in 694.

Your point? I’m not required to request explanations for scummy posts if I’m to call them scummy.

Before I forget –

UNVOTE: Silver
VOTE: DavidX

[Junpei]

So is any other role that has no motivation to help town.. You basically said that he is bad for town simply because he is a roleblocker. When argued that roleblockers are not inherently anti-town, you claimed that an anti-town roleblocker is anti-town. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

HE CLAIMED THIRD PARTY ROLEBLOCKER DID YOU FUCKING MISS THAT. I'M SERIOUSLY UPSET AT HOW YOU ARE NOT GETTING THIS. WHY WOULD HE CLAIM A THIRD PARTY ROLE BLOCKER (HURR ANTI-TOWN) AS TOWN? IT. MAKES. NO. SENSE.

I could elaborate more, but every Zinger post in this interaction is correct, while every Junpei/Meran post is either wrong ("scum can't have jailkeepers") or unnecessary ("a RB that does not wish to help town is anti-town").

This last sentence tells me you are either trying really hard to twist my words and make Zinger look good WITHOUT elaborating, or that you're just dumb. Read the above, explain how Zinger is always right.

Do note that this conversation was not started by Zinger, he was merely reacting when Junpei claimed that roleblockers were inherently bad (while his claimed role isn't even roleblocker) and when Meran falsely argued that his chosen claim was "so town that it could look scummy" (without actually stating it, perhaps for distancing purposes?). In the end, Junpei claims Zinger is derailing the thread when he is merely correcting poor assumptions by Junpei/Meran.

First of all, he could have said at ANY point "this is not relevant to the thread, can we discuss something useful. It is clear he has no problem being snarky. Second of all, I love how you group me and Meran together as if our two conversations with Zinger were the same thing. Thirdly, that conversation WAS derailing the thread, and it was pointless. Meran is at fault too.

Junpei ends it saying he shouldn't defend the possibility of a mafia jailkeeper if he believes he is a town one (which is a way of preventing Zinger to defend himself from Meran's #783) and Meransiel praises the intelligence of the said comment.

Maybe Meran praises it because it was fucking correct? Maybe I am right, and that Zinger shouldn't have been arguing about mafia jailkeepers, as it is pointless? Maybe Zinger should have pointed that out and after giving him AND meran plenty of time to do so, I had to come in and end the conversation.

I'm reading Junpei and Meran going out of their respective ways to make Zinger look bad, which can be an attempt to push for a mislynch (or a 3rd-party lynch that is also good for scum).

1) If after reading what I wrote you still think that I was making Zinger look bad for the sake of making him look bad then tell me in detail why that is. 2)Your second point is shit. Third party death is good for town, and it isn't a mislynch. Every single lynch could be a mislynch.

I wrote in bold.

[David Xanatos]

You didn't bother reading my last post then it seems.

I'll break it down for you. And I'll try to avoid words bigger than about eight letters.

YOU

quoted my post number 742 in your post 803.

The relevant section of your post there is:

I'm not going to unvote Zinger yet because as a player, he's openly lied to town, and in doing so, assuming he is telling the truth (which I still have doubts on)has revealed a Town power role with little to no reason.

So the best solution you can come up with as punishment for early revealing a Town Powerrole (if he is Town) is to lynch that player?

That’s scumtastic reasoning David.

Now.. quite apart from the fact that it was a mistake when I clicked "Submit" instead of "preview" while I was writing a response to 741, a post by Zel1nk, and to be more specific, this section of the post

If you're going to vote for Zinger, tell me which part of this line of thinking you disagree with and why. If you're just going to repeat "he claimed Third Party" over and over, ad nauseum, then this discussion goes nowhere. I also don't want to hear any more about how "stupid" it was for him to do; it was stupid to do as

any alignment

, and being stupid isn't a tell of any sort.

i.e, nothing at all to do with what you're trying to link it to, namely my post 694 in which, right after you revealed the fact you had recieved messages from two players, I politely asked about who they were. As I explained in my post before this one, this is because, and you share this view (As expressed in 808), the odds of there being two town of that role are slim to none.

Now, it follows that if the chance of a role being repeated is very low, one of them is third party or scum. There are two people. That's a very narrow spectrum. Much narrower than 27 people. When you voiced doubts about naming them, I then asked for simply the stories they gave you, so we might analyse them and find out which of them seems less consistent.

In doing so, you completely ignore my post immediately after it, in 744 which was meant to inform why the prior post was so short, and fill out to answer the question posed by Zel1nk.

And to service your retort regarding times, BST, move the small hand forward five hours, my times match up. Between my initial post and my follow-up, you had posted twice in another topic, between my follow-up and your actual reply, you had posted a further

four

times. Might I ask where you are accusing me of "fabricating" posts? Because I count six. Once again, two between my initial post and my own follow up, and four more times before you finally responded.

[David Xanatos]

Junpei, apologies for this. But in the exchange between myself and MoI, am I missing something glaring? Because it seems like I'm addressing the points he's pointing to, and he's then trying to claim he was meaning a completely seperate set of points, on a completely different page, to a completely seperate person.

[Junpei]

Lynch all Liars is a bad thing to think.
...

Can you explain this? It always seems in my experience that the majority of people believe this is a good idea.

Town lie. They have reason to lie at some times. For instance, a gambit (which is perfectly legitimate in some cases, Zingers not one of them) is a lie to the rest of town that may be performed by town. Also perhaps some wifom in other scenarios in which town isn't straight to town in order to fool mafia. It's a silly assumption that town never lies and that is bad.

pedit: David I'll reread it.

[vezokpiraka]

Lynch all Liars is a bad thing to think.
...

Can you explain this? It always seems in my experience that the majority of people believe this is a good idea.

Town lie. They have reason to lie at some times. For instance, a gambit (which is perfectly legitimate in some cases, Zingers not one of them) is a lie to the rest of town that may be performed by town. Also perhaps some wifom in other scenarios in which town isn't straight to town in order to fool mafia. It's a silly assumption that town never lies and that is bad.

pedit: David I'll reread it.

It's still important not to lie.

I've seen few good gambits. Most of them turned on themselves.

[David Xanatos]

Vezok, though I agree with you for the most part, my mind is drawn to a game I played in which a VT claimed "Bard", he claimed it allowed him to give one person a double-action for the night, unless it was a one-shot power. Mafia shot him N1, when their secondary target, before he claimed Bard, later turned out to be the Town Cop. It can work rather well at times..

But, as I said, I agree that it's usually a bad idea.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'll break it down for you. And I'll try to avoid words bigger than about eight letters.

I love the attempt to be all insulting. You are very impressive with your insulting rhetoric. It’s rather pointless on your part, but feel free to keep it up if it makes you feel superior. Especially if you are going to flip scum!

YOU quoted my post number 742 in your post 803.

I see … so you are saying you were not responding to me calling you (correctly, I’m guessing) scummy re Meransil. Ok. Let’s review 742.

I'm not going to unvote Zinger yet because as a player, he's openly lied to town, and in doing so, assuming he is telling the truth (which I still have doubts on), has revealed a Town power role with little to no reason.

And now let me look at the post that ‘clears’ you of making no sense at 744 …

Hit post too early, meant to hit Preview so I could get onto the more detailed posting screen..

His play in general has been based entirely around deception until this point, no matter what his alignment turns out to be.. I'm inclined to cite "The Boy who cried Wolf" to be honest.. he claims neutral JK, then Town Doc, then Neutral JK again, and now Town JK.. at this point, frankly I don't see why we should believe the claim anymore..

In addition, even before he claimed "self" he even responded to an inquiry as to why he was holding his opinions back with "And if I'm not Town?"

I won't even touch on the "elitist" tirade, as I've not been around long enough to have any serious views on it, but it's a rather glaring red rag to a bull.. so to speak.. insulting an entire community isn't exactly going to help the game.

Ok. What’s your point? It isn’t good Town play to lynch a claimed Town PR, regardless of how stupid and badly he got to that claim, Day 1. It just isn’t. Especially since in context he hasn’t been counter-claimed by anyone saying “Hey, I’m a Town Roleblocker / JK”.

Any attempt to justify doing so is either stupid Town play or scum play.

. Might I ask where you are accusing me of "fabricating" posts? Because I count six. Once again, two between my initial post and my own follow up, and four more times before you finally responded.

Oh, so you agree that I posted only twice between your initial response and when you said “MoI hasn’t responded”. Those would be the phone posts in the Queue thread.

Four more times before I responded here? How many of them were in THIS game?

None.

I have multiple games I am playing. The order I post in them is based on any number of factors. That you are trying to say that somehow posting in OTHER games is avoiding the response is scumtastic.

My vote is nicely put where it is.

To quote what I feel is appropriate …

DIE SCUM DIE!!!!!!

[David Xanatos]

Are you seriously suggesting that we should be expecting someone to claim Scum when pressured to claim?

Here's a little thought for you sparky,

everyone put under pressure D1 is going to claim a PR

.

And to cite the lack of counterclaims is rather amusing, given that

you

are the one who is suppressing the names of those directly involved in a scenario like that.

I find myself more inclined to wonder if you're trying a gambit.. especially given your comment expressing the possibility of a multi-scum game.. this could simply be your day one attempt to make your discussion with the "others" legitimate. It was already flagged up earlier in the thread, and I find it incredibly suspicious that you would withhold such valuable information from Town, despite openly saying you expected to be killed Night One..

[Junpei]

I read the argument and I think that the misunderstanding has been sorted out. I'll give my thoughts on it though.

1) I think that we have to lynch someone who claims PR, because, like David says everyone will most likely claim a PR.

2) There could be two of the same role, assuming everyone will get CCd if scum is silly.

3) I don't care if anyone posted in other games, unless they are REALLY inactive I think we can dismiss it.

4) MoI, when exactly did each neighbor contact you?

5) David hasn't adressed the claim of 'rolefishing'.

6) MoI misquoted David, lets get past that, I'm not sure how MoI missed it but whatever I suppose he skimmed.

[jasonT1981]

Crappy has been prodded (1) it is early, but he has not posted since his confirm over 2 days ago so I have issued a prod as I am concerned he has flaked.

[David Xanatos]

Junpei > I did. Although frankly, here's another vein of this.

MoI > Why did you tell us about the two neighbourisers if you had no intention of giving us any details? All non-Town factions now have more information thanks to you, while Town is unable to do anything with the same information.

[Pappums Leather Jacket]

We still prefer a Zinger lynch at this point though. His retraction of his third party claim makes it more likely that he is scum. Retracting such a claim is a survival -minded move. He should never have claimed third party as town, whilst it makes some sense for a third party player who is survival oriented to say WHATEVER THE HELL IT TAKES to stay alive, and we *might* see him doing a third party claim as scum, hoping to buy time. We don't think the 'permanently roleblocked' thing is the sort of thing a town gambiter would come up with off the top of his head. The most likely thing is he is actually third party, with an outside chance of being scum. Also, if the town is NOT going to lynch him, then it needs to commit to NEVER lynching him (barring investigation) and hoping for a vigging. This is important - any later day, we will have more info than today, so lynching Zinger will have a higher opportunity cost.

Hey, weren’t you the slot banging on me for pressuring Vifam as it was violating your “Newbie escalator” theory earlier? Yeah, you totally were.

Yet you are hammering Zinger (who should obv qualify for said Newb status IMO) for flailing around just like your theory explicitily states Newb Town would do. If you were being consistent about your ‘theory’ you should recognize that. But nope … you don’t and instead push using nice flowery language like “opportunity cost”

Hey look, Cognitive Dissonance from Pappums. Have this bright, shiny

FOS – Pappums

I don’t give those out usually. You should be honored to receive one. It’s a mark of my respect for the Leather Jacket half of your Hydra.

These two examples are very different, so comparing them is stretching it a bit. I dont think we have ever played a game with Vifam before, but the pappums head of this hydra did play a game with Zinger (Super Hero Mafia) where Zinger did some pretty decent scumhunting and basically kept his head on straight until people criticised him for being such a terrible vig. We dont see any reason why town-Zinger (who is clearly less of a newbie) would go off the deep end like he has here when vig-Zinger from SHM didnt claim at all in the game and kept his head on.

Here's a little thought for you sparky,

everyone put under pressure D1 is going to claim a PR

.

Ummm... no. The pro-town thing to do as a townie is to claim VT if you are VT. Most experienced people would do this. It is absurd to say that everyone is going to claim a PR.

I think that we have to lynch someone who claims PR, because, like David says everyone will most likely claim a PR.

Then I guess your Tracker claim should be discounted then if people are deciding who to lynch?

[David Xanatos]

I can honestly say that I've never been in a game in which a VT claim upon pressure was taken seriously. In fact, I'd say it'd be more likely to get lynched than a third party neutral like psychiatrist, purely because Town VT is something that, if claimed as Scum and taken at face value, simply lets the player have almost a free ride for the rest of the game, barring an investigation.

[Junpei]

Here's a little thought for you sparky,

everyone put under pressure D1 is going to claim a PR

.

Ummm... no. The pro-town thing to do as a townie is to claim VT if you are VT. Most experienced people would do this. It is absurd to say that everyone is going to claim a PR.

I think that we have to lynch someone who claims PR, because, like David says everyone will most likely claim a PR.

Then I guess your Tracker claim should be discounted then if people are deciding who to lynch?

1) So you mean that the only people who wouldn't claim PRs are town? Good golly gosh, does this mean that mafia would always claim PRs!? But we don't lynch PRs day! Oh no!

2) Mafias pretending to be tracker are much easier to catch than JK or even vig. Soon enough I'll be confirmed as tracker if my reports are outed. However, I am not ignoring the possibility of mafia trackers. As such I would expect people not to assume that I'm town, even though I am. Regardless Zinger did a very scummy gambit that made no sense as town, and given his meta, is probably scum/third party.

[David Xanatos]

Well, Junpei, I hope you turn out a better detective than your namesake at least.

[Junpei]

Well, Junpei, I hope you turn out a better detective than your namesake at least.

If you're referring to Junpei, then he was actually a detective. He was just involved in the Nonary Game, although I'm also not a detective I think I'll be able to find out the mystery regarding current events quicker than Junpei did, granted of course that I live long enough.

If you're not referring to Junpei then I don't understand this post haha.

[Nero Cain]

I really dislike how scummy Silvers bandwagon has no momentum.

[David Xanatos]

Junpei > Heh, I actually thought you were named after Junpei from Persona 3.. a character I rather liked.

Guess not though. xD

*feels silly*

[silverdrummer]

-MOI

You said this about the vifam slot and the whole replacement theory

I love that you don’t even concede the possibility that I correctly read the situation and am right.

I respond to it by what you quote below and you change the focus of it to my other head now.

well after recent posts... what you should be doing according to volkan is seing if he does replace when pressured and is scum in other games. Find a game or two where he does that and you win my heart for the day. I personally still think it's null and sheer luck if your right (or inside info).

If I did want to do that I’d again bring up Umbrage’s Jungle Republic where your other head did there what it is doing exactly here …. disappearing under suspicion while actively posting around site. Oh look, there is CJ now.

But now your stating this

Um, whut? Junpei’s Tracker claim makes my suspicions null and void for the moment. I’ve clearly explained that. How you are trying to say that I ‘all of the sudden’ did that I don’t quite understand.

I don't remember you clearing junpei null and void for the moment...

-Meran

@silver - the size of a wagon is less important than whether you're the first one voting on him or not. And you said in your post what my opinion of Pine is: just a simple lurker.

Wait... your changing your story now because this was never mentioned in said post.

2. silvedrummer posts something rather large which...is mostly fluff. Mentions his hate for walls, the scumminess of a Marcus guy, gives kinda lame reasons for Magna being scum. Is very protective of you (apparently despite the opinion of the other head, I don't really know what to think about that).

Votes pine although he talked more about Marco, probably because Pine has more votes on him. Scumpoints

-Rests
Meran's added to my to die list.. bottom of it.. for that and also throwing his vote on the higher of his mascots being lil ol me.

Updated list iss
Pine - 1st
Marco - 2nd
Meran - Tied for 2nds
magna -4th... or 5th... well last for the moment.
goomba - 3rd


However the star of the show for the moment is Nero

His post 894

I really dislike how scummy Silvers bandwagon has no momentum.

Whom I can only believe to actually have meant I really dislike how , Scummy Silver's, bandwagon has no momentum.

It's such a productive post that he wins my vote for the moment since a Pine lynch doesn't appear to be happening yet...

VOTE: Nero Cain

[silverdrummer]

*I should also note he's lightly dissuaded the Pine wagon too... which is why he further earns it*

[David Xanatos]

Isn't Pine replacing out?

How can someone with literally 2 posts be your #1 suspect? :S

[silverdrummer]

Just cause pine is replacing out doesn't mean his actions aren't suspicious worthy. He didn't post for whatever reason while posting in other games. He's been defended by others to try to turn off the wagon.