TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[David Xanatos]

Occams razor? Maybe he's just forgotten about the game completely..

[silverdrummer]

Occams razor? I know I heard it before but I don't remember where nor what it is.

He couldn't have forgotten about the game since he picked up his first prod.

[David Xanatos]

To put it in a nutshell, the simplest explanations are usually the correct ones.

[Nero Cain]

Pine - 1st
Marco - 2nd
Meran - Tied for 2nds
magna -4th... or 5th... well last for the moment.
goomba - 3rd

VOTE: Nero Cain

This is so not an OMGUS vote.

His post 894

I really dislike how scummy Silvers bandwagon has no momentum.

Whom I can only believe to actually have meant I really dislike how , Scummy Silver's, bandwagon has no momentum.

Why are you getting snarky and attacking my lack of grammar?

It's such a productive post that he wins my vote

it was my way of questioning why there is no momentum on a scummy slot.

[silverdrummer]

Ah that's right.

but again it's impossible for him to have forgotten about this game because of his respond to the prodding. He may have forgotten to that point.. but unless he has short term memory loss there's no reason for him to have forgotten again and still willfully post in other games.

-Ninja
teehee OMGUS I love it when people throw it like that simply enough.

Why are you getting snarky and attacking my lack of grammar?

Snarky? No sir you are incorrect. That sentence could be taken of two ways and I simply assumed one of them.

it was my way of questioning why there is no momentum on a scummy slot.

A slot you deem scummy which you've put such tantamount effort and spoke very openly about and not just at this point in trying to push to lynch.

[David Xanatos]

Well, it's more than feasible he simply saw the amount of catch-up and got cold feet. It won't matter much anyway when he's replaced, no?

[silverdrummer]

Well, it's more than feasible he simply saw the amount of catch-up and got cold feet.

He'd request replacement then.

It won't matter much anyway when he's replaced, no?

A slots actions are written in stone... Pine had none... this in itself writes its own stone... the stone will not be forgotten when someone else goes to sit on his stone.

[David Xanatos]

You say yourself though, he had no action. That's simply apathy, if he was active-lurking, he wouldn't be getting force-replaced..

[Rodion]

@Rodion - Quick question. Are. You. Stupid? How the fuck can I advocate the lynch of someone I think is town?

That's the power of backhanded commentaries. You can say he is town, but #783 carries the seed that can lead to people thinking he is not. I'm just saying: it would be truly amazing if you managed a mislynch with a subtle commentary that didn't quite implicate you as part of the bandwagon, wouldn't it?

One more thing!

3. Rodion providing the games. Didn't take much effort so I'm not any more forgiving of him for doing that. The relevant part of his post (last 2 rows) is still pure tunneling on the leading wagon. Scumpoints.

Please explain why I get scumpoints for answering chkballin's question.

You get no points, neither scum nor town for answering. That is why I said the only part of your post that is relevant is the end, and the end is scummy.

I don't get what is scummy about the end of that post. Please enlighten me.

Rodion > Bit of idiocy on my part there I'm afraid. I was JK in a two-scum player game in which the first died night one.. so any unblocked kill ended up confirming someone. Didn't quite think about the mechanics of it when not applied to that.. I feel a bit prattish now. >_<

Suppliment towards Rodion > And also, in my defense, it was 4:30am. Mental faculties not exactly firing on all pistons at that point.

hahaha

UNVOTE: David Xanatos

My point is that the role he claimed first up was an anti-town role. He gets pressured and, after a number of contortions, claims town JK, under the pretext of a gambit. If he'd claimed mafia or SK and then backflipped with a "lol, sorry - gambit", he'd have been lynched five pages ago. Every action he is taken since his initial claim is referable to a survival motive. Thus, we have an anti-town motivation and the absence of any town motivation.

Survival mode isn’t more likely to come from only scum. Sorry,

a Town PR is just as likely to enter survival mode after a grandly stupid move because lynching them is very damaging to Town.

You’ve been around to have seen this and that you still are pushing it as a scum-tell based on your own personal standard troubles me.

Agreed.

In addition, my first response was at 7:45PM on Thursday, you posted twice in another topic at 2:01am and 4:09am, in addition to 4 further posts elsewhere over the course of the afternoon. If that's you "not personally posting", I suggest you contact Mith about your account being compromised.

Your post

813

where you give the irrelevant links was made Thursday, July 21 at 2:45pm EST.

Your post where you charge me with ‘avoiding’ a response is

846

, made on Friday July 22 at 6:56 am EST.

During that time I have EXACTLY two posts on MS.

One at Thusday July 21 at 9:01pm EST in a sign-up thread.
One at Thursday July 21 at 11:09 pm EST in the same sign-up thread.

Both of which was made via my Android phone. None of which were made in actual game threads.

Any reason you specifically fabricated the 2 game posts and 2 mystery posts above? Because time-stamps prove that you are making that up.

There's nothing fabricated here. Timestamps prove you live in different timezones. See how the minutes are identical? And how one post happened 2 hours and 8 minutes after the other both according to DavidX and you?

So is any other role that has no motivation to help town.. You basically said that he is bad for town simply because he is a roleblocker. When argued that roleblockers are not inherently anti-town, you claimed that an anti-town roleblocker is anti-town. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

HE CLAIMED THIRD PARTY ROLEBLOCKER DID YOU FUCKING MISS THAT. I'M SERIOUSLY UPSET AT HOW YOU ARE NOT GETTING THIS. WHY WOULD HE CLAIM A THIRD PARTY ROLE BLOCKER (HURR ANTI-TOWN) AS TOWN? IT. MAKES. NO. SENSE.

I could elaborate more, but every Zinger post in this interaction is correct, while every Junpei/Meran post is either wrong ("scum can't have jailkeepers") or unnecessary ("a RB that does not wish to help town is anti-town").

This last sentence tells me you are either trying really hard to twist my words and make Zinger look good WITHOUT elaborating, or that you're just dumb. Read the above, explain how Zinger is always right.

Do note that this conversation was not started by Zinger, he was merely reacting when Junpei claimed that roleblockers were inherently bad (while his claimed role isn't even roleblocker) and when Meran falsely argued that his chosen claim was "so town that it could look scummy" (without actually stating it, perhaps for distancing purposes?). In the end, Junpei claims Zinger is derailing the thread when he is merely correcting poor assumptions by Junpei/Meran.

First of all, he could have said at ANY point "this is not relevant to the thread, can we discuss something useful. It is clear he has no problem being snarky. Second of all, I love how you group me and Meran together as if our two conversations with Zinger were the same thing. Thirdly, that conversation WAS derailing the thread, and it was pointless. Meran is at fault too.

Junpei ends it saying he shouldn't defend the possibility of a mafia jailkeeper if he believes he is a town one (which is a way of preventing Zinger to defend himself from Meran's #783) and Meransiel praises the intelligence of the said comment.

Maybe Meran praises it because it was fucking correct? Maybe I am right, and that Zinger shouldn't have been arguing about mafia jailkeepers, as it is pointless? Maybe Zinger should have pointed that out and after giving him AND meran plenty of time to do so, I had to come in and end the conversation.

I'm reading Junpei and Meran going out of their respective ways to make Zinger look bad, which can be an attempt to push for a mislynch (or a 3rd-party lynch that is also good for scum).

1) If after reading what I wrote you still think that I was making Zinger look bad for the sake of making him look bad then tell me in detail why that is. 2)Your second point is shit. Third party death is good for town, and it isn't a mislynch. Every single lynch could be a mislynch.

I wrote in bold.

You missed the point again. Let's go:

1 - Yes, I'm aware he claimed 3rd-party jailkeeper.

2 - "Why would he claim 3rd-party (anti-town) roleblocker as town?"

First of all, 3rd-party is different from anti-town. There are 3rd-parties that do not hurt the town. The fact that his claimed permanent roleblock could stop a mafia member means his claim is not strictly anti-town. If his claim is to be believed, he has no defined sides. Obviously, blocking a town PR is more likely since by definition there are more townies than mafia members on the game. You do have to weigh, though, that blocking one of the "few" mafia PRs can provide a a pro-town value that is bigger than the anti-town value of blocking one of the "many" town PRs.

Now that I adressed the wrong premise of your question, I'll answer it.

"Why would he claim 3rd-party roleblocker as town?"

Simple answer. To avoid being NKed and thus guarantee more pro-town used of his powers. A gambit. I never said I liked the gambit, but as I earlier stated, saying it makes "zero sense" like you did is stretching it.

3 - "How is Zinger always right?"

He simply is. You asked how claiming roleblocker/jailkeeper can be town. He said that being a roleblocker/jailkeeper does not make him inherently anti-town. That is correct. Period.
You then "begged the question" when you said an anti-town roleblocker is anti-town. Unnecessary remark. An anti-town roleblocker is anti-town correct, but a pro-town roleblocker is pro-town. The fact that he claimed "jailkeeper/roleblocker" does not make him necessarily mafia like you claimed in # 753, part 3. http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3266190

4 -

I was talking about third party JKs. We were already on the topic of you being third party, and I said that you weren't just claiming survivor, you were claiming a roleblocking third party, which is bad.

Not necessarily. He can also block scum. His winning condition as he first claimed it is not anti-town in the realm of logic and you should know it since you claimed to be a logic thinker.

5 - "Zinger could have said it was not relevant!"

It was because that was used against him. He is entitled to defend himself.

6 - I grouped Meran and you together because you both said BS about the jailkeeper alignment and Meran praised you for saying even more BS.

7 - "Maybe I am right and Zinger shouldn't have been arguing about mafia jailkeepers?"

If you don't understand why that was part of his defense and that simple fact allowed him to keep arguing, then I'm afraid we aren't getting anywhere unless someone else comes here to aid me in explaining why you are wrong.

8 - Third-party death is not a mislynch, I agree. The point I made is that Meran and you came up with so much crap to implicate Zinger that I started to consider the possibility that he is in fact a town jailkeeper that tried a rather poor gambit. While people were using legitimate reasons to implicate Zinger I had no problem with his lynch (I think I was the first to cast my vote on him), but when his lynch halted and people (Meran + you) started to use poor logic and false arguments to get him lynched anyway (you openly, Meran subtly) I started to think that getting him lynched might not be a good idea after all.

[Junpei]

Rodion your post made me rage pretty hard, you just don't get it. I'll try to go slowly to compensate for your lack of understanding.

1) So why the fuck would he think that we'd let him live? "HEY GUYS I AM A ROLEBLOCKER I AM NOT ALIGNED AS TOWN. I WILL ROLEBLOCK WHOEVER THE FUCK I WANT AND THEY ARE ROLEBLOCKED FOREVERRRRR". To which we would respond, what? "Oh, well, that's safe, okay just do whatever you want man". Basic problem solving is hard I know. Besides, JK is not a role that is something we'd rather live than tracker or cop, so why would he try to raise the odds of those deaths by lower his death?

2) Meran and him were arguing over pointless points. I'm ignoring you on this point as there is no reason to persuade you.

3) Wait.. he can... he can block scum? Does.. does this mean that he can block town too!? Yep. And he has no reason to try to differentiate between the two, he is anti-town.

4) There was no reason to defend himself on a point that doesn't even incriminate him.

5) Don't say what I'm saying is bullshit when you obviously have no understanding of the claim, like seriously that's annoying.

6) There is no way in hell that you could argue that there are or aren't mafia jailkeepers in this setup. There's just no fucking way at this point in the game that you could convince anyone of either side because it is possible, but there's no way of knowing if it is probable.

7)>poor logic >false arguments. Sounds like something that you're doing, perhaps trying to form an identity that you're protecting Zinger?

[Chevre]

silverdrummer: Who is your top suspect besides Pine (I guess in a later post you have revealed this to be marco and Meran), and why?

For resolution on my tiff with Meransiel, in case it is not clear for anyone, I would like to see what she does on Day 2.

ThreeIsFrench: You just declared approximately 1/4th of the players in this game as town, without any reasoning. I need a bit more elaboration.

Town lie. They have reason to lie at some times. For instance, a gambit (which is perfectly legitimate in some cases, Zingers not one of them) is a lie to the rest of town that may be performed by town. Also perhaps some wifom in other scenarios in which town isn't straight to town in order to fool mafia. It's a silly assumption that town never lies and that is bad.

Can you think of other scenarios? Because those seem rather rare.
Also, have you lied during this game?

The end of silverdrummer's Post 896 is fiendishly scummy. He lists five suspects, and then proceeds to vote someone else completely, for an awful and unclear reason. It seems as though he's been caught and is trying some last-ditch OMGUS.

Unvote, Vote silverdrummer

[Junpei]

Can you think of other scenarios? Because those seem rather rare.
Also, have you lied during this game?

They are rare, aren't they.

If I had lied so far this game then it would be for a good pro-town cause. Also if I had lied, then I would have something in mind with which to use that lie against scum. If that is the case then I wouldn't disclose it. But no, I haven't lied during this game.

[David Xanatos]

I was wondering how you'd answer that.

I was expecting something a little heavier on the sarcasm.. something amusing. Pity..

And I have no idea why Chevre asked that. That was possibly the one question he could have asked that absolutely everyone in the topic could have called the answer on.

[jasonT1981]

Day 1 Vote count 9

Zinger 9 - Vezo,Leonshade, Junpei, 3isFrench, Izak, Pappum,, KillerJester, DavidX, Vollkan
Silverdrummer 5 - Slate, Oversoul, Nero, Mera, Cherve
DavidX 4 - CHKBallin,PeregrineVTHAdmiral, MOI,
Izak 3 - ZeL1nk, Pinky, Zinger
Chkballin 1 - Andrew
Nero 1 - Silver

V/LA - MOI, Mera

With 27 alive it takes 14 to lynch with a deadline of 12th August 12pm EST

[Oversoul]

Guys, I am thinking of replacing out of this game. I am really sorry, but I just can't deal with the amount of work that this game would require. I initially /in'ed because Jaston Pmed me and I saw that his game was in signups for a while and I wanted to get the game started for him.

I am in like 5 games right now. Depending on how the night actions go, I may or may not be able to give my efforts to this thread. I am still reading this thread, but there are so many people to keep track of and it is getting to me especially when I tack on the work from my other games.

I don't want to replace out right now as my status in each game is in the night phase, but I will give you guys notice once I am out of the nightphase in those other games.

Silver, lynching Pine would literally give us no leads to go on as there have been very few interactions with his slot between other players. I feel like Policy Lynches are only useful in removing troublesome players that actively disrupt the game. Pine... has not disrupted the game. You trying to foist scumminess on Pine for not posting is sketchy.

[Pine]

Sorry I haven posted...I work ridiculously (and probably illegally) long hours in the summer at a children's camp. Today's my day off, and I can finally catch up on this at the angry prodding of Jason. Tracking an existing game with a few new posts is easy at camp, reading pages of material and drawing new conclusions requires blocks of undedicated time, which I simply haven't had of late. Toying with just replacing out, as it's more fair to the game, but I'm going to go with keeping my perfect record of not replacing out intact.

[Junpei]

Oversoul, here's what I do. While I"m reading I take a note(in notepad or word) of everything I think is important/interesting and label it. I have a specific way of taking notes that I'm not going to disclose, but basically keeping track of things through notes helps a ton with catching up. You don't even have to keep track of everyone individually. Just know what has happened and everything that is of worthy importance and you'll do fine.

Pine, sounds good man, just try to find ways to post every now and again. If you are able to give some more reads/suggestions and interact with everyone you'll do fine and your record should stay intact.

[ThreeIsFrench]

Guys, I am thinking of replacing out of this game. I am really sorry, but I just can't deal with the amount of work that this game would require. I initially /in'ed because Jaston Pmed me and I saw that his game was in signups for a while and I wanted to get the game started for him.

I am in like 5 games right now. Depending on how the night actions go, I may or may not be able to give my efforts to this thread. I am still reading this thread, but there are so many people to keep track of and it is getting to me especially when I tack on the work from my other games.

I don't want to replace out right now as my status in each game is in the night phase, but I will give you guys notice once I am out of the nightphase in those other games.

Silver, lynching Pine would literally give us no leads to go on as there have been very few interactions with his slot between other players. I feel like Policy Lynches are only useful in removing troublesome players that actively disrupt the game. Pine... has not disrupted the game. You trying to foist scumminess on Pine for not posting is sketchy.

overtoast

[izakthegoomba]

V/LA until 31st July. Wish me luck... I think...

Mod: V/LA noted. Good luck, whatever it is you are doing.

[silverdrummer]

-Chevre

silverdrummer: Who is your top suspect besides Pine (I guess in a later post you have revealed this to be marco and Meran), and why?

I stated this in my latest post. I stated the reasons in posts earlier on... please iso me and read those posts.. thank you.

He lists five suspects, and then proceeds to vote someone else completely, for an awful and unclear reason. It seems as though he's been caught and is trying some last-ditch OMGUS.

blatent misrep is blatent. Neon is the 6th suspect as I make obvious and I'm not sure how much clearer I can get. Someone who really hasn't put in much info but goes "why is this scummy player not being wagoned more" just rides me the wrong way, especially since he's lax on his reasoning.

Chevre... read my posts...

-Oversoul
A few too many people have excused Pine... this more than warrants a flip of him which then reveals why people have been trying to sway the wagon off.

[Chevre]

But why do you have a vote on your 6th suspect rather than your 1st? Or in this case, I'll allow your 2nd.

[silverdrummer]

However the star of the show for the moment

is Nero

Where in this post does it state Nero is the least I suspect?

[silverdrummer]

*glances at previous post he posted*

I think your misunderstanding me. He's the 6th person on my list... that doesn't mean he's ranked 6.

[David Xanatos]

Updated list iss
Pine - 1st
Marco - 2nd
Meran - Tied for 2nds
magna -4th... or 5th... well last for the moment.
goomba - 3rd


However the star of the show for the moment is Nero

His post 894

I really dislike how scummy Silvers bandwagon has no momentum.

Whom I can only believe to actually have meant I really dislike how , Scummy Silver's, bandwagon has no momentum.

It's such a productive post that he wins my vote for the moment since a Pine lynch doesn't appear to be happening yet...

VOTE: Nero Cain

But.. you very specifically rank Pine as 1st, Marco and Meran tied for 2nd, Goomba as third, Magna as fourth/fifth.. and then mention Nero, almost as an afterthought, but vote him.. :/

[silverdrummer]

Emphasis on star of show for the moment...

if you really really believe i did that lil paragraph as an afterthought as well as the vote as scum. then vote me.