Newbie 1120 - The Scum in Sherlock (Over!)

[zMuffinMan]

unvote

[Thor665]

Thor, never said anything about a doc O.o

I was happy with being jk'd last night, but it wouldn't play to hiplops scum plan to confirm me town. So he gets the

doc

out the way who can disprove him, fakes a pr claim and then today starts the process to lynch me, again.

So...what did you mean about the Doc?

Ok. Ive said it before and ill say it again, I'm a VT. I thought this game was about logic, infact it seems to be most of you guys blindly buddying eachother.

Second time you've accused us of this.
In fact both times you've been run up you made appeals to emotion about logic all while not actually presenting any particular logic of your own. What am I missing in this strategy?

[Scumhunter]

Thor, listening to no one but yourself isn't a good quality for a clear.

I want to be jailed tongiht if we lynch wrong. Problem is I'm thinking its hiplop at the moment.

@Thor/zMuffin: Why did Hellhound stay on Shah the entire time yesterday instead of switching to hiplop to try and save Albert? But then why was Albert voting hiplop -____-??
Gah, I need to think this over. maybe its zMuffin ????

[Hellhound1]

Thor, never said anything about a doc O.o

I was happy with being jk'd last night, but it wouldn't play to hiplops scum plan to confirm me town. So he gets the

doc

out the way who can disprove him, fakes a pr claim and then today starts the process to lynch me, again.

So...what did you mean about the Doc?

I do apologize, like i said i was on my phone, and a bit distracted by work, so didnt really have time to read over what i was writing and ballsed up, meant to say cop, as i said who can disprove him.

Ok. Ive said it before and ill say it again, I'm a VT. I thought this game was about logic, infact it seems to be most of you guys blindly buddying eachother.

Second time you've accused us of this.
In fact both times you've been run up you made appeals to emotion about logic all while not actually presenting any particular logic of your own. What am I missing in this strategy?

Ok it wasnt meant to appeal to emotion, only logic. Do i need to present my own logic to say that i dont think you're using any actual logic by buddying..?

Thor, listening to no one but yourself isn't a good quality for a clear.

I want to be jailed tongiht if we lynch wrong. Problem is I'm thinking its hiplop at the moment.

@Thor/zMuffin: Why did Hellhound stay on Shah the entire time yesterday instead of switching to hiplop to try and save Albert? But then why was Albert voting hiplop -____-??
Gah, I need to think this over. maybe its zMuffin ????

That, SH, would be because a) i didnt know albert was scum, and didnt want to hammer hiplop at that time for various reasons, and b) because im not scum myself, so wouldnt be able to save my non existent partner..

Anyway say half an hour? Assuming i dont get sidetracked thats when ill have iso'd hiplop, and be able to lay out my entire case.

[Thor665]

Ok it wasnt meant to appeal to emotion, only logic. Do i need to present my own logic to say that i dont think you're using any actual logic by buddying..?

Well...yes.
If you're upset that not enough logic is being used in thread, and you express this in a way that uses no logic at all, I'm not really sure what you're doing to advance your claim that we should all be logic mongers.

To you cop situation - what do you think about hiplop claiming prior to the cop? The way you wrote it up suggests otherwise, but he actually claimed first and also claimed a role that forces scum to generate innocent results. It's...not an optimal scum claim. Now, I'll agree he looks suspect, but I see no reason why you and Muffin shouldn't be considered - and that's a logical deduction, yeah? Now, I need to consider which of the two of you look more scum, so I look at how the now dead scum was working hard to get Awesomuffin lynched - again, a logical deduction of why he is less likely scum scum. I have no reason to consider you less likely scum - hence why I'm voting you. All logical. All regardless of buddying.

How am I not using logic?
Why are you not a suspect to be lynched?
I look forward to your use of logic in the hiplop case.

@zMuffin - you have issues with me calling myself almost confirmed? Look at yesterday when I shot down Albert's move to lynch the cop, claimed the cop was not being lynched that day, and then steamrolled Albert when I could have kept on hiplop and then explain to me why I'm scum. Go ahead, I'll be here ready to listen when you work it out. I'm basically confirmed town - and am way more confirmed than anyone but Scumhunter.

[Thor665]

@Hellhound - The case on Albert is PoE - *at least* one of those three is scum. If you think Torq was rubbish I fail to see why you're questioning the Albert case - what am I missing there?

Torqez was rubbish but he wasnt scum.. He was just crappy town. hiplop/shah and to a much lesser extent scumhunter seem much more actual scummy than albert.

For consideration on the Hellhound case.

[Hellhound1]

Ok i'll start with ISO #59

I'll try not to post too much about the mechanics, i know how much you hate them hiplop, but hey they back me up so meh.

if you end up lynching me; go after foilist. Trying to lynch a power role is fucking insane. I thought i left a breadcrumb, I usually do. I didn't this time, everyone makes mistakes.

They would CC if there was one..

The bit that strikes me as odd, re-reading through this now, is the "go after foilist" bit. We all know what happened N1.
Also, the CC bit, yeah mechanics answer here, there might only be 1PR and now they're dead..

Next is ISO #62

I didnt say i understand you not believing my claim, i said i understand the wagon on me!

I dont like how you and foilist are going after a PR ... pursue them tomorrow if i die Thor?

More "lets kill foilist" stuff.

Ok after this point Hiplop doesnt post anything noteworthy, or even useful, until D2. Yay my favorite part.
ISO #73

Hellhound1 wrote:
Ah :/ well i had him as scum from the beginning, woops! But i'll blame that on cloud's scummy acts and his inability to answer basic questions, not on DK.
Also, why was foilist killed? Wouldnt hiplop have been a better choice for scum to go for, as a known PR? Why was the person voting hiplop killed? Im still not sure about hiplop being the jailkeeper, firstly role pms say there might be a jailkeeper, not that there IS one, and hiplop may have guessed at a PR and said he was it, and now scum is seen as town, just because there isnt anyone to counter claim.


There are 4 roles that can be in the game (plus the vanilla townies). The town gets 2 of them out of the 4.

This post reads to me as newbscum trying to explain why i'm not dead. Hellhound + awsoma imo. Night analysis usually comes from scum.

VOTE: hellhound

Ok i say im not sure about hiplop, (which is what foilist had been saying D1, and then was killed N1 btw) and he has a OMGUS vote on me. No trying to defend himself, he outright attacks me.

ISO #75

Think for a moment, Thor. Then look at her reasoning. Obvious set-up is obvious, the last person voting me - he arrived at that conclusion pretty fucking fast, no way did he remember that without discussing it. We're dealing with a newbscum that thought it would be enough to get a mislynch on me.

Hmm k. Considering there were 24 hours between the time i posted and the time D2 began, i had probably minimum 15 hours to mull over what had happened. I then wrote down a possible explanation against you, and you go apeshit about it.

Iso #76 & 77

Congrats. If you were town you wouldn't be charging at a fairly obvious PR with no logic besides NK analysis that you control, and that i *COULD* be lying. I voted you yesterday, too hellhound. But ultimately the town rather had DK. So no, its not OMGUS.

I love how you say nothing new..

-----------------------------------------------

If i were stupid, i could ask the other PR to come out; that would confirm me. I am still a member of town, and i'm finding scum in you. Your logic is still nothing. Yeah, i could be lying. I could also be telling the truth, its null because of that (aka not worth charging at). Or you know, if you read my posts you would realize i think its a set up due to the big wagon on me yesterday.

And how you sidestep my logic just repeating what you said previously..

Right to start with the end of your second post, you used no new logic in your previous post. I repeated what i said, because it disproved what you said in it.

Now to the beginning of No.1, yes this game is made up of coulds and maybes..
You were not, and still are not, a "fairly obvious PR", and NK analysis is not scummy.. How is analyzing night kills scummy? OH YEAH coz they catch you out.


ISO #79

If its a 50/50 chance, how are you willing to say there are more VT's?

Btw if you think there are 6, then i'm confirmed, you realize that right?

Not at all, we've already had 1 PR come and gone and proven. End of.

ISO #80

I DONT CARE ABOUT THE GAME MECHANICS. seriously fuck off with that. Reply to my arguments.

Thats right, throw a tantrum because i wont believe what you're saying. How big and clever and logical.

ISO #81

Thats an idiotic point. Killing someone who everyone think is town + causing suspicion on a PR is a much better set up for scum than just getting rid of a PR.

Yeah k.. its also more obvious, harder, and longer. And may not result in a town lynch if the PR proves themself. Sorry but thats rubbish.

Now theres much 6 posts of "just leave me alone already i cant cope with pressure" until ISO # 87

i have had enough of this. If you're town, you're not being protown. If you're scum, you're exposing yourself.

If i were you, id get off this topic. You're trying to lynch me for no reason other than i'm a PR. Not town motivated in the slightest.

I dont care aobut the mechanics, i know them. I've been playing for years. Now stop talking about them, they bore me.

Right so by questioning you im exposing myself am i? Oh yeah last person to do that was NK'd.
"If i were you id get off this topic" - says it all to me. You hate that im pressuring you and pointing out you're wrong. Well im doing it again.

ISO #92

Let's presume I didn't read your post; how about you summarize all the parts in it where you explained he was scum while not using "he doubts mah role" in the case. That would be awesome.

i didnt say that at all in my case... or anything similar. Dont be pretentious

Urm may i point you to Iso #76, #77, and #87. I believe you use a variation of it in those, and there was another i cant find again but im sure i saw it somewhere.

Then ISO #94

This post is fine; Right after day one, this is immediately what he says. This is exactly what he was saying for about 20 posts, blindly yelling at me despite me telling him its shit. Anyway, on to the case. Newbie scum is prone to trying set ups, Hellhound here IMMEDIATELY notices foilist was the one voting me, this was like right after hellhound logged in. No way did he think of that immediately; then he paints me in poor light by saying "why didnt the jailkeeper die? PR Shoyuld havez diedz that meanz he scum". Its the epitome of an attemp-a-setup, and he goes full force on it, Strawmanning (think you know what this means, if not just ask) my offense the whole way.

I call him out; he calls it OMGUS.

Until now he shows no sign of this kind of offense; by that alone it implies to me that hes been talking overnight.

ISO'ing him; Very first post he votes awsoma (i think this is bad, you might not; i just think awsoma is his buddy at this point), Awsoma cross-votes him in his first post.

at iso20, he still has only posted fluff/buddied up to thor once.

Calls Awesoma town randomly - dont know why?

More buddying to thor

Every time thor changes his mind - Hellhound changes his too

He says here on ISO 30, that hes put up his own case; complete lie, all he said was "good job thor"

Says scumhunter is likely scum; thor says heas wrong and he immediately changes his mind - next post 180

hmm.. foreshadowing a lynch on scumhunter in 49, still hasnt posted anything with weight to it.

and then we're on today - No fucking content except buddying thor.

Thor tell me again why you think hes town?

This makes me happy. Its the most you've posted so far
Anyway, lets run through those points k?

Anyway, on to the case. Newbie scum is prone to trying set ups, Hellhound here IMMEDIATELY notices foilist was the one voting me, this was like right after hellhound logged in

Im sure we argue about this one later anyway but YOU CAN READ THIS FORUM WITHOUT BEING LOGGED IN.

he paints me in poor light by saying "why didnt the jailkeeper die? PR Shoyuld havez diedz that meanz he scum". Its the epitome of an attemp-a-setup, and he goes full force on it, Strawmanning (think you know what this means, if not just ask) my offense the whole way.

I dont know what it means but k.
Well frankly if i was scum i wouldve killed you N1 because a) you claimed a PR and b) you're bulldozing into mistakeland.

I call him out; he calls it OMGUS

Other way around buddy. I call you out, you vote me, it's OMGUS.

Until now he shows no sign of this kind of offense; by that alone it implies to me that hes been talking overnight.

1) ISO'ing him; Very first post he votes awsoma (i think this is bad, you might not; i just think awsoma is his buddy at this point), Awsoma cross-votes him in his first post.

2) at iso20, he still has only posted fluff/buddied up to thor once.

3) Calls Awesoma town randomly - dont know why?

4) More buddying to thor

5) Every time thor changes his mind - Hellhound changes his too

6) He says here on ISO 30, that hes put up his own case; complete lie, all he said was "good job thor"

7) Says scumhunter is likely scum; thor says heas wrong and he immediately changes his mind - next post 180

8) hmm.. foreshadowing a lynch on scumhunter in 49, still hasnt posted anything with weight to it.

9) and then we're on today - No fucking content except buddying thor.

1) So i keep quiet till D2, notice something fishy and stand up about it, and thats scummy? Right...

2) I like your analysis of RVS. Well done. Its scummy to vote the person top of this list. Ill remember that one.

3) I dont remember to be honest, it was oooh.. beginning of D1.

4) See point 5.

5) Thor raised valid points, like 2 or 3 times. However my vote was on Cloud pretty much ALL of D1.

6) ISO #30 on me, urm look back through the isos k? You'll see i had my own argument with cloud. If Thor was having one at the same time that doesnt matter, i had my own argument and put forward my own points. But well done for analyzing what is the remnants of RVS.

7) I dont remember why or when. Again D1.

8) YAY TH0R RUL3Z

k hopefully thats that answered.

ISO #99

hellhound dont even try that shit; i havent got a prod ever, only once in any of my games.

also fairly obvious that i was scumhunting, i was with thor but bringing other things up; you just went "THORS DA BEST".


its the crossvote i care about.

THORS DA BEST
Also, again why do you care about an RVS vote? Wut?

ISO #100

but it was incredibly random. you jsut said "Awsoma is town" no reasoning nor did anyone ask.

Care to quote, yet? Still cant find it.

ISO #101

no its the fact that you immediately noticed thigns town wouldnt overnight. aka discussion aka scum slip

Like what? A VT who suspected you died, and a possible PR who hadnt yet been CC'd wasnt..? Anyone can see that.

ISO #102

you hadn't logged in yet. I keep tabs.

and no, you wouldnt have realized foilist was the only one voting me and used ti as an offense if you were town.

Ok why not? You were no way proven to be your PR, or even town.
Also, JUST FUCK OFF WITH THE FORUM CODE OK? (<--- See wut i did thur? ) I dont stay logged in.


ISO #117

but that doesnt matter because hellhound is going today.

Confident. Wrong, but confident.

ISO #120

OMGUS is usually town motivated, some exceptions obviously, but overall def not a scumtell.

No... Its usually scum motivated, some exceptions obviously, but overall def a scumtell.

ISO #127

albert is torquez?

Thor get back on hellhound plz

ISO #153

Ill jailkeep hellhound.

I wish you had, it wouldve proved im town. However we'd be in the exact same position im in with scumhunter instead. However, your fake jailkeep allowed you to a) make you look town, b) make SH look town and c) you get away with a NK on the cop. Well done.
SH is confirmed town now anyway. You are not confirmed town, and you killed the cop. Simples.

Then anyway we're onto D3. N2 the cop died and SH was conf. town whether or not you're scum.

And urm thats pretty much it for you. Now ive gone through and answered all that, let me outline what your plan has been in relation to lycnhes/NKs.

D1) Lynched cloud to fit in with town
N1) Killed foilist after coming close to being lycnhed yourself D1. Foilist didnt believe your claim and was most vocal about it - dead.
D2) Albert was caught by the town, after a very close miss for you, AGAIN. Shar outed as cop.
N2) I do believe if shar hadnt outed i wouldve been killed here, as i was very vocal about you earlier on. However why not kill the PR? So you did.
*Speculation from here*
D3) Me lynched, flipping town, still leaving a state of confusion. That leaves a hiplop/muffin combo in my mind, although it might be thor/muffin depending whos perspective you look at it from.
N3) Either muffin or thor will die. No doubt about that, leaving SH whos clear, hiplop who thinks he's clear and thor/muffin, who would obv be the FoS here.
D4) Thor/muffin is lynched, because OBVIOUSLY hiplop is a PR and scum is town. Well, scum IS town. but yeah.
Endgame, scum win.

I hope that cleared everything up for everyone. Ive gone through all your ISO's pointing at me, and tried to answer them all as rationaly as possible, although in some places it pissed me off with your lack of logic.
If you want more info on one of my points, point out which one and ill try to go more in-depth on it.

Yes Thor, get back on how im town and hiplops case against me is once again bollocks.



Now @Thor:

Ok it wasnt meant to appeal to emotion, only logic. Do i need to present my own logic to say that i dont think you're using any actual logic by buddying..?

Well...yes.
If you're upset that not enough logic is being used in thread, and you express this in a way that uses no logic at all, I'm not really sure what you're doing to advance your claim that we should all be logic mongers.

To you cop situation - what do you think about hiplop claiming prior to the cop? The way you wrote it up suggests otherwise, but he actually claimed first and also claimed a role that forces scum to generate innocent results. It's...not an optimal scum claim. Now, I'll agree he looks suspect, but I see no reason why you and Muffin shouldn't be considered - and that's a logical deduction, yeah? Now, I need to consider which of the two of you look more scum, so I look at how the now dead scum was working hard to get Awesomuffin lynched - again, a logical deduction of why he is less likely scum scum. I have no reason to consider you less likely scum - hence why I'm voting you. All logical. All regardless of buddying.

How am I not using logic?
Why are you not a suspect to be lynched?
I look forward to your use of logic in the hiplop case.

Sheeping you? You seem to enjoy people doing that. anywho,
The way i wrote it is MEANT to be in chronological order. Yes hiplop claimed first, doesnt mean its true does it? Yes he claimed JK, yet if i point you to the boring old mechanics, he couldve been lying.
He claimed a PR, then when another PR comes along, he killed the PR who couldve proved him wrong.
Consider me, by all means. You already have. Im just giving my reasons, im not objecting to being considered. I ASKED to be jk'd if you dont remember.
With albert trying to get awesomuffin lynched, i just got bad luck is all. Hiplop has wanted me dead from his first post. No joke.
So all my scumhunting and town moves are throw out the window because i got unlucky who with who scum tried to lynch? Wow..

Thats logic. Thank you for clearing that up. You actually explained your vote.
If my hiplop case is not logical enough, ill be happy to expand anywhere you feel it necessary. Although frankly after going through his ISO, and his short one line posts, ive done the best with what i can.

[Hellhound1]

Hmm that took more like an hour 10 minutes :/ Ah well, well spent if it clears my name.

[Hellhound1]

@Hellhound - The case on Albert is PoE - *at least* one of those three is scum. If you think Torq was rubbish I fail to see why you're questioning the Albert case - what am I missing there?

Torqez was rubbish but he wasnt scum.. He was just crappy town. hiplop/shah and to a much lesser extent scumhunter seem much more actual scummy than albert.

For consideration on the Hellhound case.

Ooh meant to reply to this in my big one - i was wrong about albert.
Imo, he himself didnt seem scummy, and if you read back i had minimal to no interaction with torqez, so i had a null read. I was surprised, ill admit that.

[Hellhound1]

Correction:

Yes Thor, get back on how im town and hiplops case against me is once again bollocks.

Is meant to be in response to ISO #127, not randomly at the end.

[hiplop]

also omgus is never genuine, especially when he couldn't answer any of mu questions, if you go back and read it.

OMGUS is a town tell, if its genuine.

You know its possible to have 2 PR's, right? you're very negative IF you're town, but you're not so ya

[hiplop]

gonna be honest; i didnt read that big hellhound post

[Thor665]

He explained why you're scum though and totally sold me. Why wouldn't you want to read it?

[hiplop]

i tried, bored me cuz ive already replied to all of what i saw

[Hellhound1]

also omgus is never genuine, especially when he couldn't answer any of mu questions, if you go back and read it.

OMGUS is a town tell, if its genuine.



You know its possible to have 2 PR's, right? you're very negative IF you're town, but you're not so ya

K. Getting irrationally pissy because someone calls you scummy is SO a town tell....
Yaha, i think you'll find i am town, and you are scum.

gonna be honest; i didnt read that big hellhound post

K. If it really did sell it to thor, and thor will vote you, and scum will go with his gut and vote you, then we win. So it was worth it.

i tried, bored me cuz ive already replied to all of what i saw

You didnt, you did fuck all tbh.

[hiplop]

also omgus is never genuine, especially when he couldn't answer any of mu questions, if you go back and read it.

OMGUS is a town tell, if its genuine.



You know its possible to have 2 PR's, right? you're very negative IF you're town, but you're not so ya

K. Getting irrationally pissy because someone calls you scummy is SO a town tell....
Yaha, i think you'll find i am town, and you are scum.

gonna be honest; i didnt read that big hellhound post

K. If it really did sell it to thor, and thor will vote you, and scum will go with his gut and vote you, then we win. So it was worth it.

i tried, bored me cuz ive already replied to all of what i saw

You didnt, you did fuck all tbh.

did you just admit to being scum?

[hiplop]

He explained why you're scum though and totally sold me. Why wouldn't you want to read it?

is it actually worth reading; keep in mind i read all of his d2 posts

[hiplop]

oh nvm realized you meant SH by scum, got it

[Hellhound1]

I was gonna say O.o
Maybe MrMuffin will read my post and understand my thinking.
I am interested in everyone's response.

[Scumhunter]

hiplop, out of curiosity, why did you not mention Albert's slot at all the entire game. At one point you said "Albert is Torqez, Thor get on hellhound", followed up by "You too, SH".

You never really gave thoughts on Torqez/Albert until you suddenly said that you think Albert is lying. Can you explain why you believed Shah over Albert yesterday?

I still need to read hellhound's wall and look into Thor/zMuffin more but my gut is telling me hiplop is the scum here.

[Scumhunter]

It is relevant that hiplop claimed JK d1 and then didn't die n1. I mean it really is relevant, its not 100% condemning but it is evidence supporting the idea hiplop could be fake. There is only a doc in 33% of setups if hiplop were a real claim, I'm thinking that mafia would risk taht to take out a powerful endgame town power like JK.

[Thor665]

Also scum already knows all the PRs have claimed, that's why Albert played the gambit he did. I could easily see it as setup for hiplop buddy - but what makes you so sure on Hellhound? All I've got there is AtE gut feels for him to be town.

[Scumhunter]

Oh, I'm not sure on hellhound-town at all. I need to read his wall/iso and really take a look at everyone more closely. I have off from work the next 2 days so I should get to it soon.

I just don't get why hellhound-scum would leave his vote on Shah and not try to save Albert by switching to hiplop (would have been 3 votes on hiplop).

I think Alberts vote on hiplop could have been a last ditch effort at distancing or something. I need to really think things through here.

[zMuffinMan]

I have some thoughts but I'll wait til I can actually coherently put them together. Been on the phone for most of today and I'm going to take a break for a few hours.

Just responding to this for now:

Look at yesterday when I shot down Albert's move to lynch the cop, claimed the cop was not being lynched that day, and then steamrolled Albert when I could have kept on hiplop and then explain to me why I'm scum. Go ahead, I'll be here ready to listen when you work it out. I'm basically confirmed town - and am way more confirmed than anyone but Scumhunter.

Are you playing dumb?

Hmm...

Let me think about this one for a few minutes.

Why would Thor-scum, knowing the identity of both town PRs, bus his partner while telling hiplop to JK scumhunter and killing the cop, then coming into today declaring he's confirmed town because he wouldn't do that as scum?

Hmm...

Hmm...

Nope. Can't think of a reason you'd do that as scum. I guess you're right, you are confirmed town.

...

[Thor665]

@Muffin - If you seriously think that was a bus you are a bigger fool than I am, and I'm a big fool. Feel free to weigh in on actual issues any century now.

@Scum - was Hellhound even around during most of the dust up yesterday? I don't recall much input from him at all.