[Mini 1205] Tough Guy Mafia - Game Over!

[avasthearties]

Whoa whoa whoa. Avas: Why didn't you attack bobsnox for his votes #1 and #13 ISO, where he didn't give a reason for either, but you attacked KKN for the same thing when he did it once?

1 was RVS, wasn't it? And as for 13, he explained his vote in between then and my post, unlike KKN who only provided a BS "I wanted to see who would overreact" answer after the fact.

[avasthearties]

CA: Confirming them, or at least, making me feel a little more sure of the gutread.

I'll be interested to hear Wicked's thoughts on HH and the other developments when he comes back from V/LA

Avas: What did you think of my case? and Why isn't Hez getting an FoS too? Basically your whole reasoning for doing so to me is that I distracted the town for 4-5 pages, which Hez was also responsible for. Hez also called me confirmed scum too, if you recall.

Really, I can't make heads or tales of your case beyond the basic intentions. I can only concentrate on constant walls of text for so long. The main thing I got from there is that you each pretty much refuted what the other said, and in the end, there was really no gain of ground on either side. As for the FoS, it is a FOS after all and has no tangible effect, simply a display of suspicion. The reason you were the one that got it was simply because of the nature of that quote I posted, which I find suspicious. Hez is just as guilty of distraction, that one post is the dividing factor in my mind.

[YankCane151]

Right.

I was more referring to my concise end-be-all post earlier in the page #292.

[Rainbowdash]

The active ponies in this game are mostly town, one not at most, which means its time to band together.

@Yank - Reading through your case, I still am not ready to vote for Hez, at very least without the scum flips of a few ponies who I see as viable partners, even then, like you, he is prob town who needs to move on from an early game mixup. Tarin is a very good spot to look at for a partner to him if you truely believe that Hez is scum here. If you look at Tarin, most of his suspicions are very vauge, but the most solid one we actually see is siding with him over you in the current debate very weakly, but at the same time strong enough so the hop to your wagon makes a lot of sense. On the other side of things, we have Hez really ignoring tarin except for calling him out as a lurker at a few points. Just consider it, Tarin is probably scum here given the unwillingness to commit to anything this entire game, and works with your top choice whos wagon has already stalled nowhere near a lynch.

[el simo]

simo, What's your read on ViFam and bobsnox (whose latest posts were in between my arguments)?

bobsnox is my most town read, ViFam I don't like, can't say why I'd have to reread him in ISO.

[Rainbowdash]

ViFam I don't like, can't say why I'd have to reread him in ISO.

Try.

[Kid Know Nothing]

Listing from work. Here longer than I thought, expect a bigger post after midnight est.

HH, VS was in the game with hoopla's gambit too. What do you make of our reactions compared to that game?


Avas, its not a vs reason. The vote wad to see who'd react to it. Your vote just jumped out because it seemed overly worried about someone being at two votes. Do you think all unexplained votes are scumny? What do you think of yonzy?

Will comment on the hex/yank back and forth in my next post. Seems like annoyed players at each others throats.

[avasthearties]

What do you think of yonzy?

I think Yonzy was just stupid, and not coherent enough or around often enough to really get a read on. I've resorted to pretty much judging the Vifam half of the pair from here on out, as he at least seems to understand the basics of spelling.

[Rainbowdash]

Tarins needs to be prodded, and wagoned, maybe replaced. Not sure what else we can really do until she comes back at this point.

[tarsonisocelot]

simo, What's your read on ViFam and bobsnox (whose latest posts were in between my arguments)?

bobsnox is my most town read, ViFam I don't like, can't say why I'd have to reread him in ISO.

Why is bobsnox a townread for you?


If I can't get my head into this game by tonight I plan on replacing out. Since it started external events have distracted me from mafia and while there isn't anything I can do about the situation it makes it a little hard to care about this. If I can't gather enough focus by tonight I will replace out because it would not be fair to the town to mislynch on D1 because I didn't give enough of a shit to defend properly or contribute.

I think Hez is town and Yank either scum or troll and either way not a good thing for town.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: YankCane

[Kid Know Nothing]

What do you think of yonzy?

I think Yonzy was just stupid, and not coherent enough or around often enough to really get a read on. I've resorted to pretty much judging the Vifam half of the pair from here on out, as he at least seems to understand the basics of spelling.

See, I don't like this attitude. Writing someone off as a vi is unfair to them and hurts the town. Not scummy, many people have the same attitude, but it hurts the town

Have you seen hoopla's gambit? How. Do you think Hh's gambit compares?

[bobsnox]

I think Hez is town and Yank either scum or troll and either way not a good thing for town.

yeah I don't know if hez is town but yank is not good for town.

VOTE: yankcane

I barely skimmed the last couple pages, so nobody freak out about me not answering their recent posts.

[YankCane151]

Okay, time to join the Tars wagon. Way to copy and paste others' opinions of me out of nowhere after lurking for 2+ days.

vote:tarsonisocelot

Good thing our friend Bobsnox got another wishy washy vote and more bandwagoning. What's that, wagon #4 he's been on this game?

[YankCane151]

Read: When your whole case on me is that I'm a troll, I take it that you don't actually have a case. Do more than just make things up, Tarson.

[bobsnox]

You're very caustic aren't you? It's not really wishy washy, but you can misrep all you want day one. You're the best person to eliminate at this time. That's how I play day one. I tried to get another strategy going because I'm not convinced you're scum, but you are utterly against that. The rampant tunneling on hez and the refusal to seek a better gameplan has convinced me you need to die. Also, the omgus on tars will probably not go well for you.

[YankCane151]

I thought I wasn't the person to eliminate before Tarson brought it up?

[YankCane151]

So to get you straight, you want to lynch me because I had an argument with Hez even though you think I'm town, and because I've 'refused to change strategies' when I have.

Meanwhile, You've been wishy-washy with your voting, hopping on every wagon possible while never making a case of your own, misrepping me while claiming I am misrepping you, and going back on your "Let's not lynch Yank because he's town" just because you're mad that I'm calling you out. Ergo, OMGUS from you.

Excellent. It's good to see the scum reactions to the Hez-Yank arguments come out in plain sight, eh? Maybe it wasn't as anti-town as you think after all.

[bobsnox]

lol no that's not getting me straight. step back and revisit the game. deadline's in a while.

[YankCane151]

Step back and revisit the game instead of 'skimming' and then missing vital flaws in your case because of it.

[Rainbowdash]

I think Hez is town and Yank either scum or troll and either way not a good thing for town.

yeah I don't know if hez is town but yank is not good for town.

Yank is town. Possibly even more town then Hez at this point. I hope you ponies are trying to troll and not be serious.

Also Tarin, candyman much?

[Rainbowdash]

I feel im going to need to explain a little bit of terminology in my above post and ask questions or I will end up regretting it.

Candyman (pheonomion?) is when a player appears from lurking almost immediately after having been called out on lurking. This tell goes WAY back, and is quite accurate. Look at Tarin in this game, she stays quiet for the most part, and then under 24 hours from votes showing on her, and an hour from me calling out for a prod, she comes back. Timing is impecable, or however that word is supposed to be spelled. Not that im bad at spelling, but if somepony who was awesome at everthing like me needed to work on something, that might be it.

Now, to throw in some additonal questions for the rest of the game.

@Tarin - Even if you are replacing out, can you give me reads on HH, Wicked, el simo and avas?
@HH - Given the chance to play it again, would you make the same gambit? What did you expect a town or scum reaction to be?
@Wicked - Reads on el simo, avas, KKN and Tarin. Have you ever been in a game with a miller?
@KKN - Reads on Tarin, HH and Wicked.
@Vifam - Reads on el simo, Tarin, avas and HH.

Deadline fast approaches, I know its not until Saturday but I work wierd hours during the week and might not get much access at all Friday or Saturday depending on how fast the DCN department can get their work done.

[tarsonisocelot]

Yank: I did not c&p others opinions. Those are my own.
You seems likely to create more wars of walls and while generating content is a good thing, wall wars act to direct the game towards the agenda of one and only one player, to distract from all other players/interactions and to flood the thread with so much information that analysis becomes much more difficult than it would otherwise be. It often, as in this case, devolves to players flaming each other.
Because of the amount of posts and their length then wall wars make players look town while actually impairing town's ability to scumhunt.
I had you as a scumread in isolation, but I have since read the thread more closely and have a stronger scumread on bobsnox and I don't think you're partners.

bobsnox is scum. Read the ISO. Almost all of their posts are one-liners and there are multiple vote-only posts - plenty of activity but almost nil contribution. Their vote on YankCane recently did not make sense

They're bad because it's day one. You don't know as much as you think you do. I know you're not new to this site so what's the deal? More often than not stuff like this gets a townie killed day one and then another townie autolynched day two for leading the wagon. I don't know what you and Hez are but neither of you are good day one lynches based purely on that.

Did this change between #18 and #21?

I think Hez is town and Yank either scum or troll and either way not a good thing for town.

yeah I don't know if hez is town but yank is not good for town.

VOTE: yankcane

I barely skimmed the last couple pages, so nobody freak out about me not answering their recent posts.

Then:

You're very caustic aren't you? It's not really wishy washy, but you can misrep all you want day one. You're the best person to eliminate at this time. That's how I play day one. I tried to get another strategy going because I'm not convinced you're scum, but you are utterly against that. The rampant tunneling on hez and the refusal to seek a better gameplan has convinced me you need to die. Also, the omgus on tars will probably not go well for you.

Yank's play hasn't changed much in the last few pages, when did this change from a TvT fight likely to lead to a double mislynch to "Yank must die because he's bad for town"?
Was it when you decided the focus had shifted from Yank vs Hez to lynching lurkers (with me as the most likely wagon) and decided that defending someone you knew would flip town would look good tomorrow?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: bobsnox

Rainbowdash: I'll post my thoughts on them in my next post when I've read them, bobsnox' defence of me and attack on yank felt off enough that I looked at them first.

[tarsonisocelot]

simo, What's your read on ViFam and bobsnox (whose latest posts were in between my arguments)?

bobsnox is my most town read, ViFam I don't like, can't say why I'd have to reread him in ISO.

bobsnox is my biggest scumread for reasons I have just posted. Read the ISO and see if you still think they're town.

el simo - null, most of the activity was around the start of the game when they were targetted for saying they'd been town every other game on this account, lurky since they stopped being attacked, little scumhunting.

Wicked - leaning scum
I did not like the "I'll explain later why I'm voting, after some other people have". It seems like a way of trying to get other people to provide the arguments for a wagon, thus subtly pushing others to change their reads on a player (in this case me) without having to actually provide a reason for them to. As other people didn't bite Wicked was left arguing that I was scum because I was lurking/inactive, as the vote was cast in post #101 then that was a bad reason (though later in the day it would have held merit).
Wicked works as a partner for bobsnox. Their only significant interaction:

It was a random vote at first but his ISO gives me scumvibes just like those others I listed. You are right, though; I didn't explain it. But I was trying to imply that I guess.

What exactly gives you scumvibes in his postings? Any specific examples?

I feel like an idiot but I must've pulled someone else's ISO up and thought it was his. I don't see anything scummy in his ISO upon review.

UNVOTE: Lobster

I feel like an idiot but I must've pulled someone else's ISO up and thought it was his. I don't see anything scummy in his ISO upon review.

Whose ISO did you read instead?

Wicked - honestly I don't know. I should've been recording things as I saw them but I didn't this early in the game. Probably one of those other ones I listed.

Not only does this read like a major mistake from bobsnox, but Wicked just drops it totally after this to vote for Mastin.

avasthearties - null, has made reasonable enough posts but not really scumhunted, questioned bobsnox on Lobster's ISO but did not follow up when bobsnox admitted to not having read the ISO he claimed his vote was based on.

HH - miller fake claim is null to me. I want to hear the case/cases they have. Soon. They've been promised for a while but not yet delivered.

[tarsonisocelot]

I feel im going to need to explain a little bit of terminology in my above post and ask questions or I will end up regretting it.

Candyman (pheonomion?) is when a player appears from lurking almost immediately after having been called out on lurking. This tell goes WAY back, and is quite accurate. Look at Tarin in this game, she stays quiet for the most part, and then under 24 hours from votes showing on her, and an hour from me calling out for a prod, she comes back. Timing is impecable, or however that word is supposed to be spelled. Not that im bad at spelling, but if somepony who was awesome at everthing like me needed to work on something, that might be it.

Accurate at detecting lurking? Also whether you believe it or not those were co-incidences. An hour after you posted happened to be when I logged on in the morning after spending the weekend with family members.
I salute you for your dedication to Equestria.
What do you think about bobsnox?


I believe that I will be able to focus on the game enough to help for now, and I will replace out if I find myself unable to focus as I have been again, and I will not give any explanation in the thread until after the game if that happens.

[bobsnox]

This is how I play usually.

Can someone fill me in on why Yank is obvtown?