Newbie 1120 - The Scum in Sherlock (Over!)

[Hellhound1]

I posted id wait for Albert to post why hiplop was scum before i hammered, but he never got the chance and was fairly quickly hammered himself so..
Plus id already had my thing with hiplop, i didn't have much to say on the Albert/torqez case, like i said i had nothing to do with him.

[hiplop]

hiplop, out of curiosity, why did you not mention Albert's slot at all the entire game. At one point you said "Albert is Torqez, Thor get on hellhound", followed up by "You too, SH".

You never really gave thoughts on Torqez/Albert until you suddenly said that you think Albert is lying. Can you explain why you believed Shah over Albert yesterday?

I still need to read hellhound's wall and look into Thor/zMuffin more but my gut is telling me hiplop is the scum here.

Not really sure, i guess he sort of slipped my mind. Day one, i was mainly looking at Thor/Cloud/You and a little bit of hellhound, then day 2 i was just tunneling on hellhound. I probably havent mentioned awesoma all that much either, tbh.

Well i knew mine was real;and alberts felt dangerously like a gambit, also the way he flipflopped after he couldnt get shah lynched.

[zMuffinMan]

If you seriously think that was a bus you are a bigger fool than I am, and I'm a big fool.

No, the question isn't whether I think it was a bus, but whether it could have been a bus. And it could have been a bus. You're not anywhere near confirmed town because you pushed for Albert's lynch yesterday.

That said, I think it's one of hiplop or hellhound. I'm leaning hiplop now. Read back over his posts and realised my interpretation of his attitude, especially around p21, probably wasn't right. I could see that being hiplop-scum poorly attacking hellhound for accusing him of lying.

Bare with me, I'm really, really lazy so I'll get around to doing some sort of analysis soon.

In the mean time, was interesting to me is that there were 2 scum on the D1 lynch, which suggests DK was a counterwagon to a scum wagon, which makes me think it's hiplop.

[zMuffinMan]

I need to not post at 3am. Good idea me.

[Thor665]

DK:

Thor665, Shah

, Hellhound1, Muffin (L-1!)

Thor665:

Scumhunter

Hellhound1

: hiplop

Albert:

[/color

Not Voting:

Albert

,

Foilist, cloudocean

Initial DK(cloud) run. is above, lynch is below. Names changed to reflect current slot holders as we probably remember them.

DeityKabuto:

Hellhound1,

Albert

,

Thor665

, hiplop ,

Scumhunter

(Lynch!)

hiplop:

foilist13

Scumhunter:

Muffin

Thor665:

DeityKabuto

Not Voting:

Shahrizai

Next is Albert lynch;

Albert B. Rampage:

Shahrizai

, hiplop,

Thor665

, zMuffinMan (Lynch!)

hiplop:

Albert B. Rampage

,

Scumhunter,

Shahrizai:

hellhound1

Here's the run at Scumhunter, now confirmed town.

Scumhunter:

Thor665,

hiplop,

DeityKabuto

, Awesoma (L-1!)

DeityKabuto:

Hellhound1

Awesoma:

Torqez

Not Voting:

foilist13, Shahri, Scumhunter

Run on me was weak, and I'm too lazy to put it in color and also want to leave the strikethroughs this time.

Thor665:

foilist13, hiplop,

DeityKabuto

, Torqez (L-2)

Scumhunter:

Thor665,

hiplop

, Awesoma

DeityKabuto:

Hellhound1, Scumhunter

Awesoma:

Torqez

Interesting hiplop run I'd forgotten about.

hiplop:

Thor665, Scumhunter, DeityKabuto (L-2)

Scumhunter:

Muffin, hiplop

DeityKabuto:

Hellhound1,

Albert

Awesoma:

foilist13

Not Voting:

Shahrizai

Am gonna post now so I can study it in technicolor and offer some thoughts.

[Thor665]

I've got to admit, hiplop is in more questionable places than Hellhound in my opinion. Especially telling to my mind is the last count, which was a run on hiplop sans any scum help.
I'm slightly neutral to it due to the run on me, though it was a DK unvote that put both scum right next to each other if hiplop and Albert/Torq were buddies.

My recollection of Hellhound though was that he was not an active poster, so some of his lethargy and hanging out on single wagons is maybe more neutral than I'm thinking.

@Muffin - when did you first develop your Albert or Shah scum case? Could you link that or quote it for me? That would be awesome.

[hiplop]

If you seriously think that was a bus you are a bigger fool than I am, and I'm a big fool.

No, the question isn't whether I think it was a bus, but whether it could have been a bus. And it could have been a bus. You're not anywhere near confirmed town because you pushed for Albert's lynch yesterday.

That said, I think it's one of hiplop or hellhound. I'm leaning hiplop now. Read back over his posts and realised my interpretation of his attitude, especially around p21, probably wasn't right. I could see that being hiplop-scum poorly attacking hellhound for accusing him of lying.

Bare with me, I'm really, really lazy so I'll get around to doing some sort of analysis soon.

In the mean time, was interesting to me is that there were 2 scum on the D1 lynch, which suggests DK was a counterwagon to a scum wagon, which makes me think it's hiplop.

yawn. What was wrong with my attitude there? i was angry because he was dodging my arguments; and no one gave a shit.

What do you mean by the last part?

[hiplop]

I've got to admit, hiplop is in more questionable places than Hellhound in my opinion. Especially telling to my mind is the last count, which was a run on hiplop sans any scum help.
I'm slightly neutral to it due to the run on me, though it was a DK unvote that put both scum right next to each other if hiplop and Albert/Torq were buddies.

My recollection of Hellhound though was that he was not an active poster, so some of his lethargy and hanging out on single wagons is maybe more neutral than I'm thinking.

@Muffin - when did you first develop your Albert or Shah scum case? Could you link that or quote it for me? That would be awesome.

when did you stop thinking muffin was possible scum?

VCA, really?

[Thor665]

Whoah - you think VCA doesn't catch scum? Really?

Do you think something is making Muffin look scummy that I'm missing?

[hiplop]

Whoah - you think VCA doesn't catch scum? Really?

Do you think something is making Muffin look scummy that I'm missing?

yeah i don't. Its one of the worst offenses tbh

theres still a high chance of being scum.

[Thor665]

1. Meh to you. I've seen it repeatedly work more than most "tells"
2. ...um...whuh? That's not very brilliant nor do I understand with that as your base 'case' why you have issues with how I'm reading him.

[Hellhound1]

Except for the fact you ballsed up the first one (im voting twice, and i never actually voted hiplop D1 iirc ), shows how much scummier hiplop's votes have been than mine. I may steal that idea for any future games.

[Thor665]

Hiplop is voting you in the first one.
You're only voting once.

[Hellhound1]

Ahh k i misread it, i do apologize.

[hiplop]

1. Meh to you. I've seen it repeatedly work more than most "tells"
2. ...um...whuh? That's not very brilliant nor do I understand with that as your base 'case' why you have issues with how I'm reading him.

Tells can be pretty lulsy. But i hate VCA tbh, i've been lynched too many times as town because of it, to like it.

2. don't understand what you're trying to articulate here

[Hellhound1]

My recollection of Hellhound though was that he was not an active poster, so some of his lethargy and hanging out on single wagons is maybe more neutral than I'm thinking.

My explanation for that is that i was dead set on a cloud vote, and while not posting every 20 minutes, i actively read the thread every day. When things veered off to scumhunter etc, i really had nothing to say because at that point a) i had a null read on SH and b) i was really sure with cloud.

[hiplop]

When you have null reads; you should try to classify them, ask them questions, go after them etc. Having a bunch of null reads only helps scum, at least imo

[Thor665]

Reading over Torq again, I'd really like the Hellhound lynch today.
Vote is staying.

@hiplop - Stop making me doubt myself with posts like that.
@Hellhound - yeah...not drastically selling me.

[Hellhound1]

Im not trying to sell it to you Thor. Read my big post again, see the points i set out against hiplop, if you dont agree then thats your choice, lynch me and you lynch town.
Im simply saying what was going through my head at that time. Couple it with an actual outside life that some days doesnt allow me to sit infront of the PC commenting on people i have no idea about, yeah, i may be quiet for a bit.

[zMuffinMan]

@Muffin - when did you first develop your Albert or Shah scum case? Could you link that or quote it for me? That would be awesome.

I never developed a case on them. I had 4 town reads. I can go over why I got the town reads I got. I had town reads on you, hellhound, hiplop in the early stages of the game, and my town read on scumhunter came from his reaction to getting driven up to L-1 on D1. I don't really have time for heavy analysis before tomorrow night. So, short posts and answering questions until then. Busy working on a presentation for a seminar tomorrow. I'll get into more detail tomorrow.

[Scumhunter]

I just read through the game. I still very much think its hiplop. Currently deciding if lynching hiplop today is worth not having a clear for 3 way if wrong. At the moment leaning yes.

I don't think Thor is nearly as obv town as everyone says. It's definitely not zMuffin.

Likelihood to be scum:
1. hiplop
2. Thor/Hellhound
3. Muffin

[Scumhunter]

vote: hiplop

[Scumhunter]

Gah, can you guys stop fighting? Its just giving people a chance to hide. Ninjacheese, starttransmission, cloud, all have been able to slip under the radar because of this.

This implies he thinks Thor vs. Me was town on town.

Well, you were being super blunt in that game, much like this one. From what i remember, you didn't play very abruptly when you were toown last game. There you threw your vote around, much like in this game, Had no problem with l-1, Tunneled a player to extreme (snake there, cloud here). Had two definite towns (small detail obviously, just kind of coincidental, no real point) Hellhound/awsoma.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: Thor i usually don't like lynching the IC day one, but i think this is OK considering we have 3 people qualified to be IC's in this game.

OK lynching someone because we have 3 people who are qualified to be ICs is a weak reason to vote someone. You should be voting someone because yout hink they are mafia. I'd lynch my own grandmother d1 if I thought she were scum.



Essentially, hiplop saying "stop fighting" implies that Thor and I's arguments were useless (aka town v. town). He then proceeds to vote both of us with little reasoning for both kind of as the wind blows there. I mean I don't blame him necessarily because there was no real indication that Thor or I was ever going to give up the crusade on the other, but it reads as really WTF to me. I don't like how he tried to paint hellhound's case on him d2 as suspicious as I had many of the same suspicions. Another thing that really sells me is hiplop's defensiveness to accusations on him. As a town jk, I would think he would see how not dying n1 would make him scummy and try to prove extra hard to his detractors that he is town. His immediate defensiveness and attack on anyone attacking him reads as really different from the way a town player would react to a situation that they would know they appear scummy in.

UNVOTE: thor

gotta think about this for a minute

lol wut.

VOTE: Scumhunter

Looking back: what was i thinking unvoting him? Mistake on my part.

-_____-

That scumhunter really wasnt all that townie. I got a town read from 1/2 of his posts, i looked back after Thor's good post and realized it really wasnt all that good.

hopefully that makes sense

Vague, non-committal, sheeping hoping for an easy ML.

Remember the whole CO/you thing scumhunter? where you sheeped him to the extreme, then a huge bandwagon formed on you, yeah my reasonings stll the same from back then.

Complete misrep.

I THINK i left a breadcrumb. If you want ill see if i did.

Either you left a breadcrumb or you didn't. Don't see how you can think you did something like that, I'd have remembered if I had. Side note: I'm very much against breadcrumbing for the most part, think its entirely worthless unless you are an investigative role with a dead protective role.

[hiplop]

sup scumhunterscum. You talk about misreps them misrep me all throughout that post

[Scumhunter]

Hiplop, your reaction to being suspected for not dying n1 seemed disingenous with the way a town player would react to being suspected d2. A town jk that claimed d1 and didn't die n1 would realize how scummy it looks. They would go out of their way to show that they could see how it appeared scummy but that they were town anyways. In other words, they wouldn't insta vote anyone who suspected them...You decided to immediately attack hellhound for suspecting you. That really seems suspicious to me. If I were the town jk who claimed d1 and didn't die n1, I would feel like I had something to prove in terms of my towniness. I certainly wouldn't be reacting in the "obvious setup is obvious" sort of way.

Your post about how Albert and I needed to stop fighting, implied that our fights were useless (aka town on town). You then proceeded to vote both of us in quick succession for reasons I don't fully understand. It appeared that you were trying to pick the side who was going to win the argument at various points. There really was no reason to think Thor or I were ever going to give up our crusade against each other d1, so I think it would be a good opportunistic vote to pick a side of the wagon and to push it as scum.