TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[silverdrummer]

There's no inconsistency. We've been independent of each other. Currently CJ's not going to the QT, not responding to my pms, and wasn't at one point responding to the mod's pms. This is why I started posting from my original account. He comes back... with an essentially useless post and still doesn't bother with a pm or post in the qt for me. I don't know what the hell else I can do except for him to either flake fully or just talk to me in the QT.

Regardless he doesn't seem to give a damn at this point in my eyes.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Silverdrummer has more momentum than DavidX at this juncture. I'd like to see a resolution to the Day soon.

UNVOTE: David
VOTE: Silver[

--

You're implying that the zinger case is an example of Newbie Escalator theory?

Actually I wanted your opinion on the theory as a whole (which you gave).

--

Magna - You seem to imply that there are better solutions for "punishment for early revealing a Town Powerrole", and that David's paticular solution is scummy. Am I interpreting this correctly?

Yes, it is scummy to directly conclude that the best solution to the problem of an early revealed Town PR is to lynch them.

David is right that MoI posted elsewhere, but MoI is right that it's not scummy in the faintest.

No, he isn’t right. He claimed I posted 6 times elsewhere between those two posts. As I demonstrated I only posted twice. It can’t be any more clear cut than that.

--

Are you seriously suggesting that we should be expecting someone to claim Scum when pressured to claim?

Here's a little thought for you sparky, everyone put under pressure D1 is going to claim a PR.

Of course I’m not expecting that. Don’t try to put words in my mouth in an effort to discredit my position. That’s scummy.

Day 1 it is a detriment to lynch a claimed Town powerrole. Period.

And as I have stated – even if they are fake-claiming scum they’ve locked themselves into a claim that can be proven fake in any number of ways including investigations and direct counter-claims. You seem to want to gloss over this fact.

MoI > Why did you tell us about the two neighbourisers if you had no intention of giving us any details? All non-Town factions now have more information thanks to you, while Town is unable to do anything with the same information.

You seem to forget that information can be shared INSIDE the Neighborhood. Both Neighborizors know the identitiy of the other, as will anyone they chose to Neighborize in the future. This means that when I die there is little chance the information that could benefit Town is lost. If I die others will be able to cooberate this fact. If the scum attempt to take out a Town Neighborizor they run the risk of losing their role or being discovered via the existence of a leak.

The specifics of the mechanics aren’t helpful in any way at all to possibly outguess the mod and find scum. The methods and limits to their abilities are EXACTLY the same (at least from the information I have gotten). No possible upside to divulging them currently.

MoI > Leant Town on him to begin with, but his persistent tunneling and misquoting of my posts, and attempting to twist the context of said posts has dragged me back to neutral on him. Loathe to go into further detail while I await further response, but he's V/LA, so that's on the back-burner for now.

So this I don’t get. If I was being as actively scummy as you claim why you don’t ACTUALLY have a scum read on me is baffling.

In addition, how exactly can you "scumhunt" in RVS? The very definition of RVS is poking people to see the responses.. as you've seen with my exchanges RE: MoI,

when I get personally involved in something, I tend to focus on it rather heavily..

therefore, my sitting back and observing is my way of trying to catch things that I would otherwise miss.

In regards to the bolded – you knock me in the above quote for ‘tunneling’ but are using that exact behavior as a Town tell in your case. Please resolve this dichotomy please.

--

2) There could be two of the same role, assuming everyone will get CCd if scum is silly.

And it’s likewise completely silly to assume scum are NEVER caught by a counterclaim …

--

These two examples are very different, so comparing them is stretching it a bit. I dont think we have ever played a game with Vifam before, but the pappums head of this hydra did play a game with Zinger (Super Hero Mafia) where Zinger did some pretty decent scumhunting and basically kept his head on straight until people criticised him for being such a terrible vig.

Zinger is a relative newcomer to MS and your attempts to downplay that are noted.

Anyone who has read SuperHero Mafia that wanted to realistically argue that Zinger did a ‘Good Job’ scum hunting when he never shot Scum and constantly butted heads with / ignored me (who did catch scum aplenty) is either likely scum or stupid.

And I know pappums isn’t stupid.

--

I don't remember you clearing junpei null and void for the moment...

Um, if I understand this correct you are saying you don’t remember me saying I don’t want to lynch Junpei based on the claim. Is that correct? If so please go read post 308.

Just cause pine is replacing out doesn't mean his actions aren't suspicious worthy. He didn't post for whatever reason while posting in other games.

So just to be clear – it is scummy to not post in a game while posting elsewhere?

--

There's nothing fabricated here. Timestamps prove you live in different timezones. See how the minutes are identical? And how one post happened 2 hours and 8 minutes after the other both according to DavidX and you?

Yes, you are missing the point. He intimated I made game related posts between the time of his initial post and saying “MoI never responded”. I did not. I made 2 posts in that time frame, as detailed, and he spun it somehow into 6 posts. That’s the inherent fabrication.

[silverdrummer]

-Moi ...
1st part ah that was you, thanks for the refresher

So just to be clear – it is scummy to not post in a game while posting elsewhere?

Stop trying to twist the same "reasoning" to further "implicate" my other head. It's somewhat scummy to not post in a game while posting elsewhere to a degree. It's incredibly scummy to respond to prods, make posts promising to catchup while doing no such thing and all the while still posting in other games.

[Pinky and the Brain]

Who's hopster? I like his post though (964).

Hoppster is a head (this head, in fact) of this hydra, and that was an example of me hydra-failing. Usually I realise I've done it straight away and am able to correct it in the post immediately after, but this example was late at night and I only realised the next morning.

David is right that MoI posted elsewhere, but MoI is right that it's not scummy in the faintest.

No, he isn’t right. He claimed I posted 6 times elsewhere between those two posts. As I demonstrated I only posted twice. It can’t be any more clear cut than that.

>>

You eventually both agreed on the whole "2 posts after initial post, then following the accusation of 'dodging', a further 4 posts (in other games)". That's what I'm talking about.


@

Nero

: I Ctrl+F'd 'Zinger' in your ISO, and I found very, very little. The third party claim (although now retracted) has been one of the main events of today - why is it that you've had so little to say about it?


@

Chevre

:

Zinger2009 has claimed a third-party, and then tried to backtrack on that claim. He engulfed this in emotional and foolish play. He is my top suspect; therefore, my vote is on him.

The end of silverdrummer's Post 896 is fiendishly scummy. He lists five suspects, and then proceeds to vote someone else completely, for an awful and unclear reason. It seems as though he's been caught and is trying some last-ditch OMGUS.

Unvote, Vote silverdrummer

Chevre, the fact that Zinger claimed third-party (despite his retraction) can't be erased from history - why do you think silverdrummer is a better lynch than Zinger?

~ Hoppster

[Oversoul]

Good news guys. I just won a perfect win as town and a couple of my other games are nearing end game so I should be able put time into this game.

[Pappums Leather Jacket]

These two examples are very different, so comparing them is stretching it a bit. I dont think we have ever played a game with Vifam before, but the pappums head of this hydra did play a game with Zinger (Super Hero Mafia) where Zinger did some pretty decent scumhunting and basically kept his head on straight until people criticised him for being such a terrible vig.

Zinger is a relative newcomer to MS and your attempts to downplay that are noted.

Anyone who has read SuperHero Mafia that wanted to realistically argue that Zinger did a ‘Good Job’ scum hunting when he never shot Scum and constantly butted heads with / ignored me (who did catch scum aplenty) is either likely scum or stupid.

And I know pappums isn’t stupid.

Relative newcomer, yes, but he has at the very least finished a large theme game here. IDK WTF Vifam's level of play has been here.

I never said Zinger did a "good job" of scumhunting, I said "he did some pretty decent scumhunting". By this I meant he was actively scumhunting and contributing to the game, not that he was "raping da scumz".

Butting heads with you and ignoring you does not mean he wasnt scumhunting in that game.

[jasonT1981]

Day 1 Vote count 12

Zinger 10 - Vezo,Leonshade, Junpei, 3isFrench, Izak, Pappum,, KillerJester, DavidX, Vollkan,Pinky,(L-4)
Silverdrummer 6 - Slate, Oversoul, Nero, Mera, Cherve,MOI,
DavidX 3 - CHKBallin,PeregrineV, THAdmiral,
Izak 2 - ZeL1nk, Zinger
Chkballin 1 - Andrew
Nero 1 - Silver

Mera (back 29th) Izak (Back 31st) Zinger (Back Tuesday)

With 27 alive it takes 14 to lynch with a deadline of 12th August 12pm EST

[chkballin]

Not going to lie- This is whole huge player game thing is new to me, this hydra is currently in 2 Large games but this one has tons more activity and all of these posts hurt my brain. That being said I fully intend to read all of them.

@DavidX- You rub my other head the wrong way, mostly because at first you were joking a lot when you could have been scumhunting. No one said to sheep and jump on a wagon, we just wanted you do something. Also, you seemed very cautious but not in the townie way. You were cautious to place a vote like scum would be. Townies generally don't care what people think of their votes because they have nothing to hide or prove to anyone.

If you haven't noticed my other head is more aggressive/abrasive than I am- I like to think it evens us out. I think the silverdrummer wagon is going in the right direction and if the wagon gets to L-1, we will surely come in to hammer if there hasn't been some sort of revelation. We won't change our vote now mostly because I have no idea where my other head is, but I'll see him soon and when it comes to votes we have to agree.

~

BALLIN

[ThAdmiral]

4) thAdmiral at the start of your post you mentioned "cross-posting" which implies contradictory lines of thought and posting, presumably by David X, however you have shown no clear evidence of that in your post. Sure there may be some scummy things you pointed out, but none that were cross-posting. Can you explain why you mixed that up?

Negative. Cross-posting is where someone posts something but the other person has posted as well so they then have to respond to that, and then when they have responded to that the other person has responded to the thing they posted previously etc. It tends to get a little messy!


I'm still inclined to think david is more likely scum than silver, but the silver wagon is a LOT more viable. Competing wagons ftw.

unvote

vote: silver

(don't take this to mean I've forgotten about you david...)

[ThAdmiral]

@ mod: can you list the people who aren't voting as well.

People who aren't voting need to vote.

People who are voting someone with only a couple of votes need to start thinking about taking sides: zinger or silver.

[silverdrummer]

Simply going to say this.

1. I'd rather me than zinger
2. Why are people aiming for a lynch... with 3 weeks still being left before deadline...

Thad-
Why are you limiting the lynch for today to either be me or zinger.

[ThreeIsFrench]

you'd rather die than zinger? lol wut

[Nero Cain]

I
@

Nero

: I Ctrl+F'd 'Zinger' in your ISO, and I found very, very little. The third party claim (although now retracted) has been one of the main events of today - why is it that you've had so little to say about it?

Never fully bought into his claim. Why would third party claim? Is wagon built fast so...His ad hom attacks on MOI and the rest of MS scream newbie scum to me.

@Junpei When I wrote up my case on Silver scum and posted about Lenon your name came up a few times. While nothing was directed at you I thought you might comment/have some kind of reaction.

[Junpei]

Nero Cain I just looked through your ISO, I see references to Vifam but I don't see my name really show up anywhere. Could you be more specific for me on what you want my thoughts on?

[Nero Cain]

Edit

I
@

Nero

: I Ctrl+F'd 'Zinger' in your ISO, and I found very, very little. The third party claim (although now retracted) has been one of the main events of today - why is it that you've had so little to say about it?

Never fully bought into his claim. Why would third party claim? Is wagon built fast so...His ad hom attacks on MOI and the rest of MS scream newbie

town

to me.

In 503 defends Zinger then says the slots

ok with a Junpei wagon

after stating the following.

your claim as tracker dropped any suspicion i have for you today. For today you are certain town.

Not a fan of Silver head's

reactions to Junepi

in 927/930

@EVERYONE, WHAT IS YOUR THOUGHTS ON LEONSHADE?

As a refrence point lets look back at the jilly wagon. Vifam, myself and Lenon voted for her. Moi says Vifam is sheeping. Vifam then says that I'm shepping but if I was sheeping how was Lenon not sheeping? She voted after me and used my exact same reasoning. Might mean nothing but its a

weak link between Junepi and Lennon

.

Also not a big fan of her 307 where he

gives Junepi crap for claiming

.

I'm not really asking you anything. I just found it strange your name/slot kept coming up so thinking out loud.

[Junpei]

Well I've been over-active (which is my biggest flaw as a player which I still haven't fixed) with something like a hundred or so posts, so it's not a stretch to think that I'd be a part of your posts a lot, especially seeing as I've been a big topic what with my claim, my scummy predecessor, my support in the Zinger wagon, as well as various other small topics.

I'm' more surprised looking back that you didn't comment on that fact that ThreeIsFrench only posted 12 reads and his read for Leon was basically a line of meta. Yet despite that ThreeIsFrench asks EVERYONE what their reads are. This is even more odd seeing as there are like 50 posts with cases on Leon.

[killerjester]

Simply going to say this.

1. I'd rather me than zinger

Please explain this. Are you THAT convinced Zinger is town AND he's more beneficial to the town than he's been so far?

[andrew94]

@pinky: i remembered i had my gut then
@rodion: your comment on me is just fluff lol. everyone read it please.
@silver: why did you say what you said (u>zinger)
@junpei: i was saying if he was actually lying, he would have kept lying.
yes i did

[Junpei]

@junpei: i was saying if he was actually lying, he would have kept lying.

So then what if he still is lying?

[David Xanatos]

Tipsy/drunk scotsman just nudging topic to stop potential prod, ansrew, rodion's not fluffing, stop talking shite, going to bed.

[ThAdmiral]

@ silver: the day has gone on long enough and I think it's time we reach some consensus. I think competing wagons are optimal for town. I think people not involved in a wagon that has a chance of going to lynch at this point are wasting their vote, or potentially flying under the radar purposefully.

[ThAdmiral]

For an example of the latter see andrew. In fact his entire play today has largely been flying under the radar.

[vollkan]

@Rodion: If the best player is scum that means they won't NK me because I buddied to them.

WIFOM aside (they could NK you because you buddied to them and use that as proof of innocence), that seems like a good strategy for survivor/SK. For town? I don't think so.

@Vezok: In what other games have you tried this buddying strategy? If you haven't tried it in any other games, why are you trying it here?

Which clearly seems like you are worried about chkballin is going to say about you, and that you plan your responses so as to receive the least negative response. Which strikes me as something scum is more likely to be concerned about.

I don't agree with this at all. I don't see how DX reiterating to avoid a particular line of attack is scummy. If you're defending yourself already, it's simply pro-"your survival" to make sure you present your defence in a way that isn't going to antagonise people further.

Hypocrite scum is hypocrite. In 896 the slots voting me for a very similar post to silver's 436.

The post he voted you for was:

I really dislike how scummy Silvers bandwagon has no momentum.

His reasoning here was, it seems, simply that your post was unproductive

It's such a productive post that he wins my vote for the moment since a Pine lynch doesn't appear to be happening yet...

435 (I assume you mean 435, because 436 was by marco) was:

Less bickering, more votes on Pine plox

I'm assuming that the hypocrisy here is that both posts are fairly useless?

Neo Chain

In my mind I've found scum therefore I want to lynch scum. So my post was questioning why his wagon had no momentum and asking others to go back and look at it and vote if they agree. His posts was asking for more Pine votes. If he says that my asking for more votes on a scummy slot (which happens to be his and that might be why he's pissed) is unproductive then his post asking for more votes on a scummy slot is just as unproductive so that's how I see that.

(reference back to Murder at Hotel Death )

That's what I thought - both posts are basically the same, but he thinks yours is scummily unproductive, to the point of justifying a vote.

There is a smaller time gap between his "useless" post and yours, but not so much that the differential treatment is justified.

Silver+5

The accusation of hypocrisy is bullshit because I've been fully outspoken on the lynch for pine.

This just ignores the point that you vote Nero for making a "useless" post which is the same as a post previously made by you

[

[vezokpiraka]

Why isn't zinger dead yet again?

[vollkan]

Why isn't zinger dead yet again?

I asked you a question Vezok:

@Vezok: In what other games have you tried this buddying strategy? If you haven't tried it in any other games, why are you trying it here?