New York 134: Planet of Hats (Scum Win!)

[xRECKONERx]

VE - vig can't be scum, there's multiple kills each night which confirms the existence of a vig/SK.

I would, in all honesty, be down for a Palisade lynch today. These claims aren't syncing up:

Roleblocker + Backup Roleblocker
Cop + Cop
Every-night-vig + One-shot-vig

This Auckmid lynch is just a lynch to get rid of a lurker. We know there's scum in these power roles, but like I said, I don't know the best plan of action.

[VinegarEater]

Spoke too quickly earlier - might not be a bad idea to push Ballin to another day if another reasonable lynch (Palisade) garners support. Only if we remember to interrogate Ballin properly later. Still, I get a weird, queasy feeling when I realize we may lose an ordinary vig, even if he claims not to take our words into account.

Also, you forgot Fourseen's possible doctor claim (#1346, which I don't believe) and Jilynne's PGO claim, which I can confirm because I replaced Jilynne. Of course PGO is, properly claimed, either a slight town liability in that nobody can investigate me, or a slight scum liability in that nightkilling me is a huge sacrifice. Not particularly powerful for a PR.

What do you mean "syncing up"? Do you mean "a reasonable mod would not place these roles together in the same game"?
Do you think Ballin is lying? I already outlined the problems with his claim.

[xRECKONERx]

I don't know. Backup is rare to see in a Large Normal which is why I'm tempted to believe it's random occurance here. I think one of the vig claims is a Serial Killer, and I believe Nobody Special is scum fakeclaiming cop. However, if it's not him, then we probably either have a town RB with scum backup, or scum RB with town backup.

The tricky thing here is that removal of power roles as fakeclaims (ie, NS's cop claim, one of the vigs being SK) also means the scumteam can't be THAT powerful.

I'm tempted to believe we're looking at scumRB with townBackupRB. Or, chkballin is actually the scum roleblocker pretending to be backup.

Ugh. I don't know.

What I do know is I don't think chk is the lynch for today anymore.

[VinegarEater]

Backup didn't seem "normal" to me either, even though it's technically legal in the normal guidelines (under "Modifiers which are Explicitly Normal").

NS's cop claim is irritating. It could be legit, because it's so implausible and such a ridiculous, potentially self-incriminating role to choose, but the claim could have been made solely so everyone would think that. I hate WIFOM black holes. It may be best to just let the claim slide and ignore the investigation results until we have time to dedicate to NS, which is roughly what I've been doing. I may be biased because I've played with NS and like them.

[Celebloki]

Personally I think chkballin's claim is BS, but I'd be down to lynch Taro or Auckmid as well.

[VinegarEater]

Celeb -
What do you think of Palisade after having read the above discussion?

[Celebloki]

Okay I have been mulling this over and I am getting really aggravated at all of the scenarios. It's pretty annoying that palisade never sent in their NK last night. I am trying to figure out why there was no Mafia NK last night as well. They could have a RB and have the restriction that if they RB, then they cannot send in a kill. It's possible they blocked Palisade even though they didn't need to because of Palisade's stupidity. (If this is the case, let it be noted that Palisade stated he was going to vig chkballin). No way to confirm this. It's also possible the town has a Doc or other protective role that saved a townie last night from being killed.

We'd have to debate the possibility of having an OSV and a Vig. I am more inclined to believe Thor's OSV claim. If we agree that having an OSV and a normal vig is overpowered then lynching Palisade may be best. On another note if we lynch Palisade and he flips SK, then we now that NS is BSing his cop claim. A cop should get a guilty from an SK. I think I could be behind lynching Palisade as well.

[VinegarEater]

Yes. If palisade is scum, NS is too. This possibility is very tempting. Enough that I'll VOTE: Palisade.

NS did some standard "...unless I'm insane" speculation, (#1067) which fakeclaimer-cops usually do to get another chance when their guilty result comes up town. Traditional move. This speculation is bullshit

now

because SleepyKrew came up guilty after a convenient guilty investigation, and was bullshit

then

because the Normal Guidelines decree that all cops are sane.

Bear in mind that NS also claimed an innocent investigation on you. If NS turns out scum, you'll be a possible scumbag as well.

Primarily because Thor has his bearings better than Palisade, I find his one-shot vig claim more plausible.

[Palisade]

Sorry, both halves of us are still quite occupied.

But we're not a SK. I'll tell you that much. SKs can't no-kill, can they? So unless you want to argue that we were roleblocked by the scum, that means that we can't be an SK.

Furthermore, it's becoming very common for moderators to use one-shot roles in combination with a full version. For instance, I've seen AT LEAST two games which had a 1-shot tracker with a full tracker as well. Both within the last three months. I can totally see Wraith including a vig, and a 1-shot vig.

[Nobody Special]

Well, rather than Auckmid, can we lynch someone like Fourseen Circumstance (PBuG was quite scummy), or Taro, who's lurking too much?

Not really sure who I'll investigate tonight. Yet.

[xRECKONERx]

Sorry, both halves of us are still quite occupied.

But we're not a SK. I'll tell you that much. SKs can't no-kill, can they? So unless you want to argue that we were roleblocked by the scum, that means that we can't be an SK.

Furthermore, it's becoming very common for moderators to use one-shot roles in combination with a full version. For instance, I've seen AT LEAST two games which had a 1-shot tracker with a full tracker as well. Both within the last three months. I can totally see Wraith including a vig, and a 1-shot vig.

This is the worst argument ever.

"SK's can't no kill!" Yes, they can, if they're not compulsive.

"But current mod meta BLAH BLAH BLAH" Don't waste my time.

[xRECKONERx]

I'm not sure if the OSV or the standard vig is more likely to be scum.

I'd be down to lynch Palisade before Thor due to obvprotowniness from Thor, but a Palisade townflip or scumflip would make me question my read on Thor. I'm also, as usual, still down for a NS lynch. chkballin is not the lynch for today, though, because neither are NS or Palisade. They're all being left alone, which leaves us with the following people to lynch:
4. FourseenCircumstance
5. DrippingGoofball
7. bvoigt
9. Auckmid
12. PeregrineV
13. Taro
17. xRECKONERx
18. Parabollocks

However -- let's assume we're not going to lynch Celebloki due to NS's WIFOMy cop claim.

This game needs to get increasingly more active. Anyone got a read on Parabollocks?

[Wraith]

If Parabollocks does not post in 24 hours he will be replaced, as it will be his third prod.

[FourseenCircumstance]

I don't want to die young...

unvote vote: parabollocks

[xRECKONERx]

wat

wat

wat

[bvoigt]

@Thor: I just reread the post in which you claimed One Shot Vig. How did you know you were roleblocked Night 1?

We'd have to debate the possibility of having an OSV and a Vig. I am more inclined to believe Thor's OSV claim. If we agree that having an OSV and a normal vig is overpowered then lynching Palisade may be best. On another note if we lynch Palisade and he flips SK, then we now that NS is BSing his cop claim.

A cop should get a guilty from an SK.

I think I could be behind lynching Palisade as well.

Not necessarily...I think investigation immunity is a pretty common addition for a SK. But, if the SK is investigation immune, I'm sure he'll flip as such. So I guess it's nothing to WIFOM about.

Well, rather than Auckmid, can we lynch someone like Fourseen Circumstance (PBuG was quite scummy), or Taro, who's lurking too much?

Not really sure who I'll investigate tonight. Yet.

Why do you think PBuG was scummy?

[bvoigt]

Also, hi VE! Haven't seen you around in a while.

This is the worst argument ever.

"SK's can't no kill!" Yes, they can, if they're not compulsive.

"But current mod meta BLAH BLAH BLAH" Don't waste my time.

QFT. Since when are Serial Killers compulsive?

[xRECKONERx]

Wait, yeah, how did Thor know he was roleblocked!?

[Taro]

I assume because his shot didn't go through N1 and he still had his bullet.

You know, with the amount of dead scum and the amount of claimed PRs, I'm under the impression that the roleblocker, if any, should target in there. There's obviously bullshit within that group (I'm personally hoping NS is lying so I can get my Celebloki lynch, they are still both trying to push on policy lynch and ignoring everything happening around them). If he's town he has a fair odd of hitting someone anti-town, because as has been said there is no way all the outed PRs are town, and he might manage to block an anti-town kill or catch one of the scumbags in a lie tomorrow.

Alternatively we could lynch our vig since he's a tad bad at aiming and it creates a web of confirmation if he flips scum via NS lying.
OR we could ask the roleblocker to claim with his targets so far.
OR we could wonder who the fuck actually buys into us having 2 vigs and a PGO, as if the scum wasn't fucked over enough.

I personally favour a RB claim with targets and explanations. If he's town he has no reason to withhold information that we could use to catch the scum/sk.

[xRECKONERx]

Roleblocker isn't claiming on top of everything else. That's just a big can of WIFOM waiting to happen.

No. We keep going.

[Taro]

I wouldn't drink canned wine...

Joke aside, I think it'd help clear out this hellhole of PRs.

[VinegarEater]

Reckoner -

Wait, yeah, how did Thor know he was roleblocked!?

It was either that or doc, no?

"But current mod meta BLAH BLAH BLAH" Don't waste my time.

Your argument relies on mod meta too. More plausible mod meta (no mod would put such a plethora of power rolls into a normal setup) but mod meta none the less.

Also, Parabollocks seems like scum to me, mostly due to gut and irritation. ISO him - he's either VI or scum.

I'd be down to lynch Palisade before Thor due to obvprotowniness from Thor, but a Palisade townflip or scumflip would make me question my read on Thor. I'm also, as usual, still down for a NS lynch. chkballin is not the lynch for today, though, because neither are NS or Palisade. They're all being left alone, which leaves us with the following people to lynch:

Why are we leaving these people alone? Lynching Palisade could be instrumental in deciding to lynch NS and/or celebloki.

Bvoigt -
Hello. Long time no see. No, I don't think we have a compulsive SK either.

NobodySpecial -

Well, rather than Auckmid, can we lynch someone like Fourseen Circumstance (PBuG was quite scummy), or Taro, who's lurking too much?

Not really sure who I'll investigate tonight. Yet.

This post screams "my thought process has nothing to do with my investigative ability." It saddens me.

Why did you investigate Celebloki/SleepyKrew/Palisade if PBuG was scummy for you? You had plenty of time.
Why do you want him lynched now when you can investigate him tonight?

Taro -
You said you thought PBuG was scum. (#1216) Surely NobodySpecial and yourself can show us the way.

FourseenCircumstance -
None of us have patience for more VI antics in this game. Answer these questions or else very bad things:
Was the doc claim serious?
Explain why you're voting Parabollocks.

[Thor665]

Yes. If palisade is scum, NS is too. This possibility is very tempting. Enough that I'll VOTE: Palisade.

NS did some standard "...unless I'm insane" speculation, (#1067) which fakeclaimer-cops usually do to get another chance when their guilty result comes up town. Traditional move. This speculation is bullSmurf

now

because SleepyKrew came up guilty after a convenient guilty investigation, and was bullshit

then

because the Normal Guidelines decree that all cops are sane.

So, NS claims cop.
NS investigates claimed Vig and calls it town.
Solution is to lynch claimed Vig to check veracity of cop claim...
After cop produced correct result on scum...
After cop produced a 'who I'll investigate list' containing two scum...
What?

If you're sold on NS being liar shouldn't we lynch NS?
If NS is scum he knows who town is unless SK.
I really don't follow this - we should only lynch Pally if you think he's SK - all the NS stuff is numb dumb case padding, yeah?

Bear in mind that NS also claimed an innocent investigation on you. If NS turns out scum, you'll be a possible scumbag as well.

I'd be down to lynch Palisade before Thor due to obvprotowniness from Thor, but a Palisade townflip or scumflip would make me question my read on Thor.

Beyond obv. pro townness my claim proves I'm not mafia scum unless I'm B Mafia scum, and the only other variety of scum I can be is a BP SK - keep that one in mind there as you accelerate your car down the road of awesome, buddy.
Also, town or scum flip from Pally makes you question a town read on me? How does that make sense?

This game needs to get increasingly more active. Anyone got a read on Parabollocks?

No more than I had before. I'm really WIFOM neutral on the whole Pally push because a full and limited shot role does not seem too out of sort to my mind, and 'theoryscum NS' is worth keeping around longer even if he is scum, and I'm leaning no on that one. I could do a Para lynch as much as most of the rest of the oatmeal that is our playerlist. I'd strongly like to lynch Pally prior to NS at this stage if that was the choice offered. I don't think I want that to be the choice offered.

@Thor: I just reread the post in which you claimed One Shot Vig. How did you know you were roleblocked Night 1?

Wait, yeah, how did Thor know he was roleblocked!?

It was either that or doc, no?

Seriously guys?

One shot.
I use that shot.
Mod is obligated to inform me if I still have the shot after a night I used it.
I was specifically told I was roleblocked.
A doc protect would use up my shot, derpy doo. I may have been "roleblocked" in some way that is not specifically a "roleblocker" but I was told I was roleblocked.

[Thor665]

Y'know, thinking about it - does anyone think I looked like a pro-town roleblock night 1?
Because if that doesn't look like a pro town roleblock I know a abackup I have some questions for - and I personally think coming out of Day 1 I looked like one of the strongest town players there.
If it was town, had to be a JK, yeah?

[Celebloki]

Bear in mind that NS also claimed an innocent investigation on you. If NS turns out scum, you'll be a possible scumbag as well.

If you remember though he claimed I was town when there was a wagon forming on me. If he is scum he was white knighting me knowing I'd flip town and it would make him look better. This is precisely why I really hope that NS really is a cop otherwise I get caught up in a load of WIFOM defense.