TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[Pappums Leather Jacket]

Because he IS third party, duh.

[Junpei]

@Everyone voting me:

will you pledge to eat your hat when I flip town? Kthxbai.

Nope, I will do not comply to the requests of scum, by the way, that is an amazing defense. "Eat your hat if im town k?".

In this post ZeL1nK says that he thinks my Zinger lynch is scummy. However this is odd because I did so with

a ton of self confidence

.

Of course you were. After all, as scum you can afford to be as confident as you like, right?

As town, you should always have some doubts. Being too confident is a scumtell.

I'm confident because I'm confident in my strong read of scum from you. And my post was about dissonance in ZeL1nK's post. You took what I said out of context and assumed that you understand the situation when you don't.

[The Fonz]

We don't believe that Junpei's habitual extreme and disproportionate self-assurance is in any way a scumtell. We think he genuinely believes he's smarter than everyone else.

[Leonshade]

@Everyone voting me:

will you pledge to eat your hat when I flip town? Kthxbai.

Are you attempting to dissuage people from voting for you with this? If so, it's not going to work.

[Leonshade]

We don't believe that Junpei's habitual extreme and disproportionate self-assurance is in any way a scumtell. We think he genuinely believes he's smarter than everyone else.

Who are you?

[Pappums Leather Jacket]

We don't believe that Junpei's habitual extreme and disproportionate self-assurance is in any way a scumtell. We think he genuinely believes he's smarter than everyone else.

[Junpei]

We don't believe that Junpei's habitual extreme and disproportionate self-assurance is in any way a scumtell. We think he genuinely believes he's smarter than everyone else.

You're one person who I would expect to hear that from.

However I will inform you that I do not believe I'm smarter than everyone else rather that I believe that I've found something that shouldn't be disregarded. Don't take my extreme confidence as "he thinks he knows the truth because he's of the opinion he is smarter than us", rather take it as me trying to squeeze information out of the situation. As shown with the Meran example, I have no problems swiftly changing my opinion of someone if proven wrong, even if it isn't actual proof rather events that imply my thought was wrong.

Although I wasn't aware you had joined us.

[Pappums Leather Jacket]

So that's you and Leonshade not reading the game then... interesting.

[Junpei]

So that's you and Leonshade not reading the game then... interesting.

Just checked, Jason never said The Fonz was replacing in, the OP also doesn't reflect this.

[ZeL1nK]

In this post ZeL1nK says that he thinks my Zinger lynch is scummy. However this is odd because I did so with a ton of self confidence.

*snip*

Now it's a town tell to push hard on a wagon? You even say arrogantly so even if you don't agree with my logic it should still be a town tell for you.

What are you, a moron?

The key here is that you're pushing an obvious mislynch and Silver hasn't shown any indicationt that he'd be willing to vote for any of the main wagons.

Here, I'll bold the key point because you seem to have overlooked why I consider his arrogance a town tell.

My opinion on why this makes him look town is because I'm of the opinion that all of the main wagons are town wagons, and he hasn't taken the opportunity to move to any of them

---

Which brings me to the second thing he is trying to do, which is form the identity that he is the defender of the two wagons, Silver and Zinger. Most likely so that he doesn't have to choose sides.

Actually, 3 wagons. I also think DavidX is town.

And yeah, I'm not going to be on any of those wagons today unless they start spewing what I consider scum tells.

---

- was very wishy-washy regarding vifam. Uses phrases like "odd" and "I don't know what to think". Also the heads don't seem to agree about vifam

The Vifam thing came from cjdrum, and that's standard play from what I've seen of cjdrum. Probably more likely to come from cj-town, if anything - I'm more inclined to believe cj-scum wouldn't say something like "I don't know what to think".

As for the difference in opinions of the head, why do you think this is scummy rather than a case of heads not co-operating. It seems like they're having issues with being a hydra. Unless you think that in itself is scummy (and I'd like to know why if you do), I don't see how you can use this as a reason for suspecting silver. :/

- accusing moi of cheating during their argument

Just verifying, this is something you think is scummy? Or more likely to come from scum than town?

Could there be a softer target?

Well, Zinger for one. DavidX seems to be a fairly soft target as well.

We don't believe that Junpei's habitual extreme and disproportionate self-assurance is in any way a scumtell. We think he genuinely believes he's smarter than everyone else.

I assume this is due to modding experience with him? I can agree with this statement. Like I said previously, if I hadn't seem him act this way as town before, I'd think he's scum.

[Junpei]

ZeL1nK given what countless others have repeated and said about Zinger, Zinger is NOT an obvious mislynch, stop acting like you're allknowing. It is unsettling when someone pretends to know more than they should.

[ZeL1nK]

Zinger is NOT an obvious mislynch

Yes he is.

---

@Thad,

Also the composition of silver's scum list is something I don't see coming from scum, unless they're really, really, really ambitious scum.

What do you think of this from silver:

1. I'd rather me than zinger

[Junpei]

ZeL1nK, know he is not.

Explain how he is an obvious mislynch because as it stands there are some convincing cases against him.

[ZeL1nK]

No, there aren't.

It's the same crap over and over again.

I'll sum up it all up in one go. "He claimed third party".

^Yep, that's it. That's the entire convincing case against him.

I'm done arguing about it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey Zel1nk -

Care to provide a few more scum reads than just Izak?

Because you are doing a bang-up job telling us who isn't scum but in a Large Theme you probably should have more suspects than just Mr. Goomba.

[Pappums Leather Jacket]

Right, and that's a good argument. I've never seen town claim third party before. I cannot envisage any scenario in which it is a good idea for town to claim third party. I HAVE seen scum claim third party. If some people who do X are scum and none are town, then it's a good lynch.

Also, you're forgetting the whole timeline. Zinger was being wagoned for refusing to contribute. So he claims 3p, with the explanation that his lack of scumhunting was because, as a third party, he didn't want to upset the scum and get nightkilled. Well, if he's retracted his third party claim, then we have to accept that he has not presented any kind of justification for the kind of behavior that got him wagoned in the first place, because he's retracted the explanation he did offer.

[Pappums Leather Jacket]

^
|

The above directed at zelink, ninjad by MoI.

[hiplop]

No, there aren't.

It's the same crap over and over again.

I'll sum up it all up in one go. "He claimed third party".

^Yep, that's it. That's the entire convincing case against him.

I'm done arguing about it.

If he claimed scum would you be saying the same thing? If you're town, it should mean the same to you

[ThAdmiral]

As for the difference in opinions of the head, why do you think this is scummy rather than a case of heads not co-operating. It seems like they're having issues with being a hydra. Unless you think that in itself is scummy (and I'd like to know why if you do), I don't see how you can use this as a reason for suspecting silver. :/

It adds to the general air of wishy-washiness but is admittedly probably due to the issues they are having as a hydra. No I don't think that in and of itself is scummy.

- accusing moi of cheating during their argument

Just verifying, this is something you think is scummy? Or more likely to come from scum than town?

Yes. I think it is an attempt to nullify/undermine the argument without actually addressing the argument.

Could there be a softer target?

Well, Zinger for one. DavidX seems to be a fairly soft target as well.

That's actually a good point. The zinger bit at least. I'm not as sold on david being a soft target as he's generally been able to defend himself quite well.

@Thad,

Also the composition of silver's scum list is something I don't see coming from scum, unless they're really, really, really ambitious scum.

What makes you say that about the composition? Is it that it is so ridiculously bad it couldn't possibly be scum?

What do you think of this from silver:

1. I'd rather me than zinger

To be honest I don't know.
It actually seems genuine. I mean it

could

be a gambit, but it doesn't feel like one.

I shall ponder this and come back to it on the morrow...

[David Xanatos]

ThAd > I think by "soft target" he means someone who's already got pressure/wagoning on them, so a cursory attack and vote wouldn't look so out of place. At least that's the way I read it.

[ThreeIsFrench]

To be honest I don't know.
It actually seems genuine. I mean it could be a gambit, but it doesn't feel like one.

its either scum motivated, or really, really bad play.

[silverdrummer]

-Thad

For an example of the latter see andrew. In fact his entire play today has largely been flying under the radar.

Or Pine.... actually much more so Pine

-volk

This just ignores the point that you vote Nero for making a "useless" post which is the same as a post previously made by you

Can you clarify this or quote the post directed at me.

-Nero
Please answer 1048.

-To why u > zinger people
Zinger would be more beneficial then me in a few ways and I still think he's a VI town.

-ThreeIsFrench

Silver is also scum, but Zinger needs to die today; no matter what.

Why the full preference of one over the other when you believe both to be scum?

its either scum motivated, or really, really bad play.

Ok scum motivation I can see (gambit theory).
Expand on how it's bad play please.
---
I still don't understand why I'm seeing excuses being made for Pine. Some have said he's being replaced which is a flat out lie thus far. Some have said he should be gone soon which again as the past dictates is false. $10 says that when Pine makes a post again whether he is prodded again or not we get another "I swear guys i'm going to catch up". Thad's accusation of andrew flying under the radar... just frankly disturbs me.

[jasonT1981]

Mod taking V/LA for a day or so. Knocked myself out earlier after banging my head and have a slight concussion, Sotty will be doing vote count later.

Not voting will be added day 2 to the vote counts.

[ZeL1nK]

Care to provide a few more scum reads than just Izak?

Because you are doing a bang-up job telling us who isn't scum but in a Large Theme you probably should have more suspects than just Mr. Goomba.

No. Consider anyone outside of my town reads a scum read, for the purposes of figuring out who I currently suspect.

2, possibly 3 of {vezok, 3isfrench, izak, plj, vollkan, pinky}
2 of {slate, oversoul, nero cain, chevre}
1, possibly 2 of the players not on Silver/Zinger atm.

That's about as helpful as I'll get prior to at least one of their flips.

I HAVE seen scum claim third party.

Have you ever seen scum claim third party under the same conditions? As in, unprompted D1.

I'm not saying I've seen town do it, but I haven't seen scum do it, and it makes a lot more sense if it's a failed gambit coming from town than a scum gambit.

So he claims 3p, with the explanation that his lack of scumhunting was because, as a third party, he didn't want to upset the scum and get nightkilled.

Zinger really didn't have a substantial wagon at the time. He

was

getting wagoned, but not enough that it would pressure Zinger-scum to claim third party.

Also, it makes a whole lot more sense if you think of this as being set up from the start of the game (or perhaps even before the game started). That would also explain why he was inentionally playing in an anti-town manner at the beginning of the game (setting up for a fake-claim as a gambit).

If he claimed scum would you be saying the same thing? If you're town, it should mean the same to you

Claiming scum is a bit different to someone claiming a third party role that they didn't think was an anti-town role.

What makes you say that about the composition?

1) Lack of obvious candidates
2) Inclusion of not-so-obvious candidates
^ Vastly different from almost any other suspect list put forth thus far. It's not so much that it

wouldn't

come from scum, but that it's far more likely to come from stubborn town set in their reads.

[Junpei]

ZeL1nK I don't understand why you're using this logic.

You say that the only reasoning behind the Zinger lynch is that he claimed third party.

First of all, it is also his scummy behavior, his lie which makes no sense, his doctor fakeout claim, then finally the fact that at the end of it he ends up claiming JK of all things.

Your reasoning is that Zinger is so stupid that it has to be a town failed gambit because it can't be a failed scum gambit. THAT LOGIC WORKZ LOL. Face it, it makes no sense as any alignment except for possibly third party if he thought that he could lie about his role and get a free pass. It was a poorly formed 3rdparty gambit more than a failed town gambit.