TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[jasonT1981]

Day 1 Vote count 15

Zinger 13 - Vezo,Leonshade, Junpei, Hipaddict, Izak, Pappum,, KillerJester, DavidX, Vollkan,Slate,Cherve,Pinky, Banshee (L-1)
Silver 8 - Oversoul, Nero, Mera, MOI, THAdmiral, Zinger, CHKBallin, Andrew
Hipaddict 1 - PeregrineV
Izak 1 - ZeL1nk,
Nero 1 - Silver

Not Voting: 3 - drmyshottyizsik, Pine, Rodion.

Mera (back 29th) Izak (Back 31st)

With 27 alive it takes 14 to lynch with a deadline of 12th August 12pm EST

[hipaddict1]

Gah silverbullet is so obvscum, but zinger still needs to die 100% chance vs 75%, seriously; theres no way hes town

???

If Silver is obvscum(wich I agree he is) why is he only 75%?

I think he meant that Silver is 100% obvscum, while Zinger is only

probable

obvscum at 75%.

other way around actually.

I pretty much 100% know zinger is scum, and i only STRONGLY think silver is scum, and risk vs reward makes me want zinger dead

[hipaddict1]

You’ve openly claimed 3rd Party as Scum under little pressure Day 1 when any Non-Town claim means likely death to survive.

So you are a VI? Gotcha.

I think you need to read my post, nice try smartass.

[Pappums Leather Jacket]

Should be on record that I strongly dislike this way of doing things: seems to me that if the rolenames are completely irrelevant to the roles, then there's no actual point having them.

Ok, I'll be on record with two things.

1. That this post really is a good guide when Pappums / Fonz is the Mod but is meaningless to the discussion here. Buiilding a Theme game that isn't "Outguessable" based on linking PowerRoles to flavor is just as valid as strongly linking flavor.
2. That this post is another example of Non-scumhunting that pervades your ISO and further strenghtens my "PLJ" is scum read.

Holy Strawman, Batman. Ignoring the game-relevant body of the post, commenting only on the concluding aside, then coming to the conclusion that there's no scumhunting going on? THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU CUT THE RELEVANT PART (that you were misstating David's position) out of the quote.

[Zinger2099]

I pretty much 100% know zinger is scum,

So, you are claiming some sort of investigative role that discerns alignments during the day?

If so, I warn you, you are paranoid!

But to everyone else: when I flip town, remember that hipaddict was 100% sure (no margin for error what-so-ever) that I was scum.

Which means he is lying.

[hipaddict1]

I pretty much 100% know zinger is scum,

So, you are claiming some sort of investigative role that discerns alignments during the day?

If so, I warn you, you are paranoid!

But to everyone else: when I flip town, remember that hipaddict was 100% sure (no margin for error what-so-ever) that I was scum.

Which means he is lying.

Pretty much, no I'm not a role like that. If i were to post an accurate one itd be like 80% sure you're scum/anti-town in some capacity. Also, with you alive; town won't be able to make progress, and we'll be stuck on the subject of "is he lying?". You're just the best lynch for many reasons.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I think you need to read my post, nice try smartass.

I read your post. I asked you to provide a logical scum-motivation for his play. What you gave was some vague, unsubstantiated statement about how you did it also. I'm still waiting for solid scum-motivated play that isn't DERPtastic. Because unfortunately DERPtastic play comes from all alignments. Based on the individual player's level of DERPness.

[hipaddict1]

Pretty much at the beginning of that was showing my doubt! not pretty much to the post! my bad

[hipaddict1]

I think you need to read my post, nice try smartass.

I read your post. I asked you to provide a logical scum-motivation for his play. What you gave was some vague, unsubstantiated statement about how you did it also. I'm still waiting for solid scum-motivated play that isn't DERPtastic. Because unfortunately DERPtastic play comes from all alignments. Based on the individual player's level of DERPness.

and i asked you for logical town-motivation for his play. What you gave was a snarky reply.

I said i've seen it, where the fuck did you get that i have done that?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Holy Strawman, Batman. Ignoring the game-relevant body of the post, commenting only on the concluding aside, then coming to the conclusion that there's no scumhunting going on? THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU CUT THE RELEVANT PART (that you were misstating David's position) out of the quote.

Actually his position is meaningless in the context of the likely set-up. It's not a scum-tell of course but doesn't do Town ANY GOOD AT ALL to say "Hey, maybe something likely randomly generated lined up nicely to flavor". It might have. But discussing it at this point is just fluffing.

Which was the whole point of my response. Thanks for not getting it.

You reaction here ... to scream "Straw-Man" when I point out yet another post of yours that lacks scum-hunting and is fluff-tastic is telling.

I've reviewed your ISO.

It's pretty much described as follows -

1. Defend Vifam with "Newbie Escalator" (or whatever the name is) theory argument.
2. Take a soft swipe at Chevre as a lurker.
3. Latch on Zinger and never budge.
4. Make lots and lots of "Game Theory" posts that don't contribute a hoot to scum-hunting.

If you wish to assert I'm wrong feel free and we can discuss.

[Zinger2099]

@MOD, why is the deadline so far away?

I am used to shorter games, where the days last about a week. Long games really throw me off. I don't have the attention span or memory required to be able to focus on 50 pages per day.

Seriously, how do any of you scumhunt with so much crap to shift through? It's like finding a needle in a haystack.

In shorter games, at least the needle is only in a small haypile.

Personally, I really hope the day ends soon, regardless of who gets lynched. Knowing some of you, I am sure someone will accuse me of being scum because I am 'trying to end the day early'. Which is silly. 55 pages is more than enough.

I am seriously fighting the urge to self-hammer. Someone just end the agony already.

[Zinger2099]

If i were to post an accurate one itd be like 80% sure you're scum/anti-town in some capacity.

Okay. Now tell me why.

[MagnaofIllusion]

and i asked you for logical town-motivation for his play. What you gave was a snarky reply.

I said i've seen it, where the fuck did you get that i have done that?

I didn't bother to respond because frankly I'm not going to. If you can't think up a viable, realistic scum motivation to make a play then it is AT WORST a Null tell. I didn't even bother asking you in the first place. I'll have to remember who it was I asked originally.

Oh that's right it was Pappums ...

hey Pappums care to respond

?

Ok ... where have you SEEN a Mafioso under minimal pressure Day 1 unbidden claim 3rd Party as a survival mechanism. Link me. Because that's the dumbest survival technique I have ever seen and you trying to pass it off as a valid scum motivation means you either aren't thinking it through or are scum faking scum-hunting.

[jasonT1981]

@MOD, why is the deadline so far away?

All my large theme games have a 1 month deadline. This shall shorten as the game progresses and less are alive.

[Leonshade]

@Zinger:

I'd like you to answer my questions in this post.

[Junpei]

ft through? It's like finding a needle in a haystack.

In shorter games, at least the needle is only in a small haypile.

In shorter games, there may not have been a needle dropped yet. In larger ones there could be many needles.

Zinger said that his role is more important that other roles when he made a gambit that would at best do nothing more than make him live and increase others' chance of death. Also increasing the chances of information roles' death isn't optimal play at this point. The two things are the same, you are really being foolish here and I would appreciate it if you would assess this argument and determine whether or not it is worth arguing over, if not then I'd like to quit cluttering up this thread with arguments that serve 0 purpose. These kinds of arguments don't help me scumhunt.

[drmyshottyizsik]

@shotty: Are you still willing to hammer Zinger, or has seeing the town JK claim changed your mind?

I don't see that as a good, or believable claim. I'm off to work. I won't hammer at my time I posted, well most likely. I want to talk a bit more today.

[hipaddict1]

and i asked you for logical town-motivation for his play. What you gave was a snarky reply.

I said i've seen it, where the fuck did you get that i have done that?

I didn't bother to respond because frankly I'm not going to. If you can't think up a viable, realistic scum motivation to make a play then it is AT WORST a Null tell. I didn't even bother asking you in the first place. I'll have to remember who it was I asked originally.

Oh that's right it was Pappums ...

hey Pappums care to respond

?

Ok ... where have you SEEN a Mafioso under minimal pressure Day 1 unbidden claim 3rd Party as a survival mechanism. Link me. Because that's the dumbest survival technique I have ever seen and you trying to pass it off as a valid scum motivation means you either aren't thinking it through or are scum faking scum-hunting.

pretty sure it was 3isfrench aka me

[Zinger2099]

I want it to be on record that I think Junpei is Mafia-Aligned, and once I flip town tomorrow everyone should gang-rape him. kthxbai.

I'd like you to explain why you think Junpei is scum.

He first drew my attention when I felt that he was lock-jawing on me. His rebuttals to my posts appeared to be conveniently worded to not only defeat the purpose of my posts but at the same time make me look bad. I didn't follow up on this notion because I believed I was simply reacting strongly to him because he suspected me, and thus my opinion was biased.

However, when another player came along (I believe it was TheAdmiral, but don't quote me on that) and basically accused Junpei of the same things I was seeing, it solidified it in my mind that I wasn't simply seeing things that weren't there. I agreed with this person's post and continued to examine Junpei more closely from that point on.

Since then, all of his arguments have had the pretense of being logical and sound yet he seems to come to illogical conclusions. I get the same feeling from his posts that you get from, say, a car salesman who manages to convince you (through sound logic no less) as to why you should buy this car, but you can't help having a sinking feeling that he is twisting reality just to make it look the way he want's it too.

A few times he had back-up in his arguments, which at the time seemed like they might be a scumbuddy helping him out.

He is so sure of me being scum (to the point of overconfidence, which I explained to be a potential scum-factor).

A few other things here and there that made me think he was scum but I can't really remember what made me think that (it's enough that they did).

---------

I am sorry that I haven't gone back and brought forth concrete hard examples for you to look at and agree with. You have to understand though, I was not trying to convince anyone that Junpei is scum (hence the lack of a strong built case against him), I was simply telling everyone who my current top suspect is, in case that matters.

Nobody else seemed to think the same as me (some agreed with my points about Junpei but they didn't think that made him scum), so I didn't bother building a case when it became obvious that he wouldn't be lynched today. I am of the mind that you should focus on the now, and as such I decided to focus on which of the top 3 wagons (after me) that I most agreed with, rather than chase after someone I will likely never catch.

Hopefully though, when the game winds down to smaller numbers, someone will come along and re-examine Junpei's earlier posts in his ISO, and WHEN that happens, they will hopefully pick up on some of the same things that I have.

I hope this adequately answers your question?

[Junpei]

If I were Leon it would, although I could go through that post and pick away at it proving you false and explaining my posts, I doubt you want to do that. Any case has flaws even those on scum, and while I am not scum I know that proving your case wrong won't prove my innocence. But if it would entertain people I will gladly do it.

I do find it odd that he has completely shifted from his grudgy "I'm angry at the world" attitude to his "I'm a polite and well mannered man".

[Zinger2099]

I wasn't angry at the world, I was angry at the abundance of arrogance I was viewing on these forums. I have said this more than once, you thought it to be untrue perhaps? Maybe you thought I was angry all the time?

I find that hard to believe considering you viewed my other games.

[Junpei]

I wasn't angry at the world, I was angry at the abundance of arrogance I was viewing on these forums. I have said this more than once, you thought it to be untrue perhaps? Maybe you thought I was angry all the time?

I find that hard to believe considering you viewed my other games.

Your behavior earlier on in this game was angry, I pointed out earlier that I thought that behavior was odd considering your demeanor in other games. Now you are back to that. Regardless I don't think I will be able to draw any conclusion from it that will sway me from your lynch.

[andrew94]

unvote vote silver

respond to stuff when i get back

Also explain the vote when you get back.

as i said, i dont think zinger is lying, so im voting silver. silver was also suspicious for reasons i remembered i stated before but forgot.
english is NOT my first language.

also, im pretty sure you said i was scum somewhere.

[Junpei]

unvote vote silver

respond to stuff when i get back

Also explain the vote when you get back.

as i said, i dont think zinger is lying, so im voting silver. silver was also suspicious for reasons i remembered i stated before but forgot.
english is NOT my first language.

also, im pretty sure you said i was scum somewhere.

I do think that you are scum, however perhaps not as much after learning that English isn't your first language.

Between the post where you ask me what ELSE I believe you're scummy for and the post before that, where you'll see we were only discussing your read on Zinger.

Also,

Moderator, is it against the rules to have Andrew post in his native language and have us use google translate? I have no clue if this is a bad question or not but I think it'd be easier to communicate with him if we could

Thirdly, how was easjo's first post fence sitting, I don't see it and this is where I'd like others' input to try and explain his reasoning or a mod-confirmation on if translations are allowed because this is the kind of incoherent thing that I'm talking about. I just simply can't understand him, although I will note that he did stop responding to this line of questioning at one point.

Lastly, how do you think that "lynching zinger is bad because he claimed town PR" but that "scum will always claim PR so who would we ever lynch?", which basically means that at some point day 1 we have to lynch a PR claim. It's contradictory.

[jasonT1981]

Also,

Moderator, is it against the rules to have Andrew post in his native language and have us use google translate? I have no clue if this is a bad question or not but I think it'd be easier to communicate with him if we could

That is a gray area, Andrew does seem to have a very good grip of English though. I would advise against it for now. I will seek advisement on this as it is never a situation I have come across before. Heck I don't even know where Andrew is from or his native language. (I think I know but not 100% sure) And truthfully, I dont want to be running to google every time he posts.