[Mini 1205] Tough Guy Mafia - Game Over!

[avasthearties]

I'm Vanilla. Boring but true. And hammering me before KKN gets a replacement or we see HH's wall would be a scum move indeed.

[YankCane151]

Also my reads are different from everyone elses, they're different from yours. Which don't make sense,

you repeatedly slam bobs posts but still rate him as townie. And HH has done nothing this entire game but dribble and you calling him town as well.

Bingo, especially the first sentence.

[HezLucky]

Also my reads are different from everyone elses, they're different from yours. Which don't make sense,

you repeatedly slam bobs posts but still rate him as townie. And HH has done nothing this entire game but dribble and you calling him town as well.

Townie's can be idiots too.

HH has done nothing this game but post WELL and post in a manner that is consistent with how I would expect town to think and scumhunt.


Also, every time I see Yank post I pray harder and harder for (m/g)od to give me a daykill.

[YankCane151]

And snox said I'm the one who didn't drop it, smh.

[LobsterCatapult]

@rdash

yeah really. your vote on vifam, before you switched over to avasts....for reasons unclear. why did you switch your vote from wicked to vifam....then to the other lynch candidate?

vifam had no votes on him before, and you then said its only him or vifam today. sorry i dont see a vifam lynch happening, and im quite happy with my vote on wicked. and i dont see where your case on vifam really reflects him.

1) vifam hasn't defended much of what yonzy has done at all. in fact, the only post he refrences this is post 242. all his other posts have been in refrence to other things.

2) I'm not going to sit here and defend vifam, but he comes across as a newb, so i looked and indeed he has just joined this site. i dont agree with his 242, and he hasn't been the most active or content filled player, but simply, i think you are trying to twist what he is saying into something scummy, that im not really seeing at this juncture. im null/town on vifam.

i think he is all over the place, needs to actualy follow up with his requests and reads with substance, but in general, his 230 and 271 seem good, i agree with his reads on you and bobsnox. vifam needs to step up and swing the bat rather than sit in the batting cage, but all in all, this seems like overwhelmed newb being fail at catching up, and so far this reads as slightly town newb, not scum. i think he is trying to scumhunt, and is pointing things out, but he needs to get in and back up his reads, however i think his reads, minus hez, are accurate for now.


@wicked

your first point on avast...about him commenting on vifam, i dont see the scum angle from it necessarily. vifam had posted some since then, and to me posted some valid posts, maybe some not so valid posts, but vifam had posted 21 times since avast said his reads on him. the main problem i have with avast's posts is that they are a bit wishy-washy, which is mildly scummy. however i dont see avast's read of vifam at this juncture as premature, or strange since before he said he didnt have much of a read on him, and now he does. in point, his catch up post leaves a lot to be desired, but the read on vifam to me isnt the problem.

2nd point.
avast's point is valid, you were voting someone who was tied for 2nd, however, your point is also true that you could have voted other people. i dont really see the need in pointing this out.

3rd/4th point.
....i dont really see why you think that avast was tunneling kkn that heavily. he only posted like. 3 times in regards to kkn. and i agree with you on this point, i think that this point by avast is crap. i dont think his reads were accurate in regards to KKN and the yank-hez action going on. i think his reads here were false, and his post here was wishy-washy. however, what do you think of avast's point on bob? i think we can all agree that this one post by avast is pretty shitty, but, im not sure if get the whole ingenuine vibe. i think its quite unlikely that hez and yank are scum together. i still dont know about yank, still sort of leaning town on him.

and no, i have other reasons for voting for you. i absolutely HATE your 113. i dont see why town should hide their reasonings for voting for someone, while asking others for their opinions on it. this seems like it comes from a scum motivation

i dont like your 115. i think your vote on HH seems late for your reasoning. i feel like for your reasonings you should have voted for HH sooner, and that you are hopping on the HH wagon purely because your "case" on taron didnt work out the way you wanted. i feel like you parked your vote on HH for convenience and trying to blend in.

i dont like your town->scum reads. you havent really explained some of them. this seems like scum trying to make content.

your 396 response to HH seems like you dodged the question. HH said he thought your posts read that you dont give a fuck in general, but you responded to the specific miller claim.

i think my predecessor's points on you and yank should be noted.

pedit.....shit. avast you scummy bastard. you are both scummy bastards.

in the end. i both hate and like these wagons. i dont like wicked, and i dont like avast for different reasons. i dont care which one gets lynched at this point. we will get a lot of good information off both of these lynches if we mislynch or we lynch scum. i dont like wicked's case on avast, but i do think avast (at least now) is scummier for different reasons. the same goes for avast against wicked. i like the people on wicked's wagon better than the one on avast, but avast is making me claw my eyes out.

fos:rainbowdash
fos:avast

are they both at L-1?

[YankCane151]

Seriously snox, please tell me the difference between me staying on Hez (during my pressuring of him) and you calling me 'tunneling scum' and Hez who is at this basing all of his scumreads on me being scum when he doesn't have a case against me other than him being furious at me for arguing with him. (Yes, I read the big post, and no, there isn't a case, just him upping me on the richter scale to 600 percent or something.)

Do you not think it's more dangerous for Hez to be blatantly disregarding of my play and leading his own personal witchhunt against me because he's upset than me pressuring him and then moving on? I think it's clear to me that Hez still has sour grapes over me.

Oh well, when he NKs me tonight (can't count the number of times he's said he's going to get me killed), maybe we'll all realize then. I'm over that situation, but I really do want to know why you're siding with Hez so hard for fairly flawed reasoning.

[Rainbowdash]

unvote

I will have some access tomorrow in the morning at least, maybe not actually near deadline, thats going to cut it close. I want the game to be able to breath for the time right before deadline though, also because I need to think about this claim a little first. My vote shows back up around 12-16 hours from now, most likely on Avas here.

@Hez - If anyone is playing with emotion in this game, its you and Yank. Bob is up there but nowhere near what you ponies have managed to pull off. Take some of your own advice here.

[bobsnox]

safest claim possible hmm

[bobsnox]

Yank - I'm ignoring you and Hez for the rest of the day. You are really focusing on specific things that don't really matter at the moment. Hez might be scum, I don't know. I just liked that one post from him and I don't like how you're playing in general.

[YankCane151]

And what happens if I turn up dead tomorrow and you never answer my question? Trust me, this question matters to me because I think it's important enough to note if there is indeed a team of you and Hez. You liking his post isn't the issue; it's the fact that me and him are playing similar (I'd argue he's more focused on irrelevant things than I am, but that's neither here nor there) but you're ragging on me for it and praising Hez for it. What's the difference?

You answering this one question won't take away from any discussion or anything, so just answer it.

[HezLucky]

And what happens if I turn up dead tomorrow and you never answer my question? Trust me, this question matters to me because I think it's important enough to note if there is indeed a team of you and Hez. You liking his post isn't the issue; it's the fact that me and him are playing similar (I'd argue he's more focused on irrelevant things than I am, but that's neither here nor there) but you're ragging on me for it and praising Hez for it. What's the difference?

You answering this one question won't take away from any discussion or anything, so just answer it.

Because I'm calling him town and you're attacking him (or not calling him town. Iunno haven't paid enough attention to you versus bob)

He plays emotionally. It does not make him scum.

[tarsonisocelot]

Yes that is what everyone is saying, let's lynch Wicked because he has relationships with scummy people A, B and C. It doesn't make sense to lynch him over that, we don't even know the set up yet and we already deducing that he is everyoens partners. Lynch scum first, find buddy later!

That's what I'm trying to do.
Just because I've said they would be a good partner for bobscum doesn't mean I don't find them independently scummy - I do.
Also I don't like the look of the avast wagon.

At the least the voting in this stage of the day will make interesting rereading tomorrow.

[tarsonisocelot]

I've already claimed avast. Nobody has presented me with a case on Wicked, despite asking numerous times.

Where did you claim?

[LobsterCatapult]

rdash.....why do you find avast scummy?

[bobsnox]

Yank - in all honesty, I haven't read most of your back-and-forth with Hez. All I know is that when I suggested we pick a different path for the day, you were adamantly against it and said so directly to me. I never interacted with Hez regarding that matter. If he is doing the same thing you were, then he's in the same boat.

That said, I'm getting a few townvibes from you of late.

[Amor]

Votecount

Wickedestjr - 5 (Horrifying Hero, tarsonisocelot, LobsterCatapult, HezLucky, avasthearties)
avasthearties - 5 (Kid Know Nothing, bobsnox, Wickedestjr, YankCane151, ConfidAnon)
HezLucky - 1 (Vifam)
bobsnox - 1 (el simo)

Not Voting - RainbowDash

Due to requests from multiple people, the deadline has been extended to Tuesday August 2 at 11:59 PM. If a majority has not been reached by this time, the player with the most votes will be lynched. If there is a tie there will be no lynch.

Currently looking for a replacement for Kid Know Nothing.

[bobsnox]

mod can you include the lynch threshold in your vote counts?

[Wickedestjr]

@Mod: Thank you!

I don't think I have time to respond to posts directed at me right now (I'll try to do it tonight if the day isn't over by then), but I do have time for a quick post right now.

I feel that there are very weak cases against me which I have defended against (with the exception of HezLucky and LobsterCatapult's recent posts which I'll admit I haven't read yet). There is a strong case against avasthearties and he hasn't done anything to defend himself. He's at L-2 with at least three players off of his wagon who are all fine with his lynch and he's claimed to be a vanilla townie. To me, it seems like a very straight forward decision. Let's avoid making any other players claim and go with the lynch that most of the players here (even a few not voting him already) support. The worst possible outcome is we lose a vanilla townie and the scum go into the night not knowing anybody else's claim and have less of an idea as to who our powerroles are. The best and most likely outcome is that avasthearties is scum and the scum go into the night not knowing anybody else's claim.

If we do go through with this lynch, I want to see HH's wall post. However, I don't see the point in waiting for Kid Know Nothing's replacement. It will probably take a day or two for the replacement to be found and another day or two for them to catch up. I've seen enough from that slot for the day to end and think it would be best if we gave the replacement the whole entire night to catch up instead.

Thoughts on this?

[el simo]

@Mod: No access over weekend.

[Rainbowdash]

rdash.....why do you find avast scummy?

Thats a good question, and where my problems really are rooted right now since im basically sheeping Wicked who of which im not overly confident of being town. I would much rather lynch Vifam than avast, or wicked at this point. A few recent posts have made me do some Pinkie Pie-esq twitching as well with Bob saying VT is the safest claim, when its also the most common claim from town. Also Wicked trying to justify the lynch of Avas because he claimed before he did just makes me want to slow things down and think more. Avas does make some sense as scum, but other ponies are more likely scum.

Vote Vifam

This may be more figurative then anything else since I doubt the support shows, but nothing more would I like than to just lynch him right now.

[Wickedestjr]

Response and questions to Hez:

POINT 1: META
Wicked #44 is noted for possible connection to Yank. Really? How are you the only person in this game that actually needs an explanation of my original vote for Yank? I don't believe that, given the solid player that you were in Open 302. [[Seriously, people have replaced into this game and called my original post on Yank a good one. The fact that neither you nor Yank can understand that does not strike me at all as town]]
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- WICKED IS 10% MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

I thought I understood your reason for originally voting YankCane, but I asked about it because I thought you worded it strangely and I wanted clarification. In the post where you voted him you said it was because he was trying to not offend anyone and look helpful. In my opinion, neither of these things equate to seriousness and lack of jokes (which was the reason you gave in your response to my question and the answer I was expecting) which is why I asked just to be certain. You can joke around without offending anybody and you can also joke around in response to the questions but still be helpful by adding serious answers as well. Does that make sense?

Also, why would I deliberately act like I don't understand your point against Yank? If it is because you think I'm trying to avoid suspecting Yank, then why would I proceed to cast suspicion of him in post 47, three posts later?

POINT 2: CONNECTION TO SCUMBUDDY
Yank and Wicked are buddies baesd on #47-#49. Wicked starts arguing with Yank, and Yank gives him nothing,
no sort of crap that he gave me, since a) he's [Yank] not under pressure and (b) he's [Yank] too new to realize getting
into an argument with your scumbuddy is a good tactic d1.
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- BOTH YANK & WICKED ARE 40% MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

IIRC, I can't really defend myself against this point because it is based on YankCane's actions. I would like you to pay attention to the fact that I gave Yank an FoS, not a vote.

This is a really weak vote. It revolves around another player being scum which is really bad reason because you couldn't possible know if Yank is scum if you are town and it is only day 1. Also, if your suspicion of me is based on my connection to YankCane, then why do you say:

It's rather extensive on

Wicked

, Vifam, and Rainbowdash being the scumteam, every bit as long as promised and then some--not even Mastin anticipated it being this conclusive. The level of detail is worth it, though.

GOOD GOD MAN FUCKING POST THIS. THIS MIGHT WIN US THE FUCKING GAME. LOOK AT MY SCUMLIST.

IF I'M WRONG ABOUT YANK, YOU'VE JUST NAILED ALL THREE SCUM

. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?

Because if Yank was town, then you would have no reason to suspect me.

[HezLucky]

Response and questions to Hez:

POINT 1: META
Wicked #44 is noted for possible connection to Yank. Really? How are you the only person in this game that actually needs an explanation of my original vote for Yank? I don't believe that, given the solid player that you were in Open 302. [[Seriously, people have replaced into this game and called my original post on Yank a good one. The fact that neither you nor Yank can understand that does not strike me at all as town]]
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- WICKED IS 10% MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

I thought I understood your reason for originally voting YankCane, but I asked about it because I thought you worded it strangely and I wanted clarification. In the post where you voted him you said it was because he was trying to not offend anyone and look helpful. In my opinion, neither of these things equate to seriousness and lack of jokes (which was the reason you gave in your response to my question and the answer I was expecting) which is why I asked just to be certain. You can joke around without offending anybody and you can also joke around in response to the questions but still be helpful by adding serious answers as well. Does that make sense?

Also, why would I deliberately act like I don't understand your point against Yank? If it is because you think I'm trying to avoid suspecting Yank, then why would I proceed to cast suspicion of him in post 47, three posts later?

POINT 2: CONNECTION TO SCUMBUDDY
Yank and Wicked are buddies baesd on #47-#49. Wicked starts arguing with Yank, and Yank gives him nothing,
no sort of crap that he gave me, since a) he's [Yank] not under pressure and (b) he's [Yank] too new to realize getting
into an argument with your scumbuddy is a good tactic d1.
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- BOTH YANK & WICKED ARE 40% MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

IIRC, I can't really defend myself against this point because it is based on YankCane's actions. I would like you to pay attention to the fact that I gave Yank an FoS, not a vote.

This is a really weak vote. It revolves around another player being scum which is really bad reason because you couldn't possible know if Yank is scum if you are town and it is only day 1. Also, if your suspicion of me is based on my connection to YankCane, then why do you say:

It's rather extensive on

Wicked

, Vifam, and Rainbowdash being the scumteam, every bit as long as promised and then some--not even Mastin anticipated it being this conclusive. The level of detail is worth it, though.

GOOD GOD MAN FUCKING POST THIS. THIS MIGHT WIN US THE FUCKING GAME. LOOK AT MY SCUMLIST.

IF I'M WRONG ABOUT YANK, YOU'VE JUST NAILED ALL THREE SCUM

. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?

Because if Yank was town, then you would have no reason to suspect me.

Confirmation bias. I also hated your scum-town list. Like, it's terribad. I don't see how town can come up with such a list. It wasn't one of my two original reasons for voting you, but it is now.

More importantly, HH has something "rather extensive" on 3 people I have in my scumlist. I want to read why he thinks YOU are scum beyond YankCane.

Also, Yank isn't being lynched today. Put yourslef in my shoes: two competing wagons are null-read and scum-read. Which one do you vote? I would rather lynch Yank than you, buti t's not happening.

[Rainbowdash]

Bob - Why do you think a vanilla claim is a scumtell?
Vifam - Where are you?
Simo - Move your vote.
All - If you could lynch *anyone* who would you be voting here and why? Note that Yank and Hez do not need to answer this question.

[Wickedestjr]

your first point on avast...about him commenting on vifam, i dont see the scum angle from it necessarily. vifam had posted some since then, and to me posted some valid posts, maybe some not so valid posts, but vifam had posted 21 times since avast said his reads on him. the main problem i have with avast's posts is that they are a bit wishy-washy, which is mildly scummy. however i dont see avast's read of vifam at this juncture as premature, or strange since before he said he didnt have much of a read on him, and now he does. in point, his catch up post leaves a lot to be desired, but the read on vifam to me isnt the problem.

Okay, then why do you think avasthearties felt the need to mention Vifam?

2nd point.
avast's point is valid, you were voting someone who was tied for 2nd, however, your point is also true that you could have voted other people. i dont really see the need in pointing this out.

That wasn't my only reason for having issue with avasthearties' comment. The post was also IIoA because he implied suspicion of me without explicitly saying he suspected me. Also, the implied suspicion was opportunistic.

[1: ....i dont really see why you think that avast was tunneling kkn that heavily. he only posted like. 3 times in regards to kkn.]

and i agree with you on this point, i think that this point by avast is crap. i dont think his reads were accurate in regards to KKN and the yank-hez action going on. i think his reads here were false, and his post here was wishy-washy.

[2: however, what do you think of avast's point on bob?]

i think we can all agree that this one post by avast is pretty shitty, but, im not sure if get the whole ingenuine vibe. i think its quite unlikely that hez and yank are scum together. i still dont know about yank, still sort of leaning town on him.

1:

Four times actually. But it really doesn't matter how many times he commented on or spoke with KKN and you are undermining my vote for a very very weak reason. He voted KKN in post 76, the top of page four, and didn't switch his vote until post 346, the bottom of page 14. A majority of the game he had his vote on KKN. And it was for a very weak reason: KKN cast a reasonless vote. This vote could have also gone to bobsnox. Also, if KKN is voteworthy for a majority of the game simply for voting without reason, then I'd think Horrifying Hero would have been nearly confirmed scum from avas's perspective (I've explained why). Finally, avas completely ignored and didn't make a single mention of my reasonless vote.

2:

I missed it. But you've raised a good point. It's suspicious.

and no, i have other reasons for voting for you. i absolutely HATE your 113. i dont see why town should hide their reasonings for voting for someone, while asking others for their opinions on it. this seems like it comes from a scum motivation

I've explained this at least three times. I've even brought up a game where I've done this as town. What is wrong with my explanation and why am I scum for doing something that I have done before as town?

i dont like your 115. i think your vote on HH seems late for your reasoning. i feel like for your reasonings you should have voted for HH sooner, and that you are hopping on the HH wagon purely because your "case" on taron didnt work out the way you wanted. i feel like you parked your vote on HH for convenience and trying to blend in.

Firstly, HH was never and has never been my top suspect. He's one of my stronger suspicions but I didn't vote him because he was my top suspect. The vote was purely to add pressure while there was attention on that slot because I wanted them to actually contribute. Secondly, I posted my case against tarsonisocelot AFTER I voted HH. My case had never "not worked out". Nobody had suspected her prior to my reasons but I hadn't given up on that suspicion. Also, you think I'm trying to blend in? From memory, I was only the third vote.

i dont like your town->scum reads. you havent really explained some of them. this seems like scum trying to make content.

No this is town that wanted to post their new reads after being V/LA while the thread had gained 8 pages. When we are so close to deadline and I have limited time, the only read I need to explain is my strongest scumread. Also, "scum trying to make content" is really vague.

your 396 response to HH seems like you dodged the question. HH said he thought your posts read that you dont give a fuck in general, but you responded to the specific miller claim.

Uh... no. HH is correct that I don't care about the miller claim. I've explained why that doesn't make me suspicious and I've explained why I don't care about the miller claim. How and in what way did I dodge the question?

i think my predecessor's points on you and yank should be noted.

I responded to Friend's points. How was I wrong?

Also Wicked trying to justify the lynch of Avas because he claimed before he did just makes me want to slow things down and think more.

What's wrong with that justification?

All - If you could lynch *anyone* who would you be voting here and why? Note that Yank and Hez do not need to answer this question.

avasthearties

[Rainbowdash]

Also Wicked trying to justify the lynch of Avas because he claimed before he did just makes me want to slow things down and think more.

What's wrong with that justification?

It is hoofing the "lynch all vanilla claims" line which is one of the biggest failed policies known to ponykind. In this situation it feels like more of just trying to put the final nail in a coffin, but the nail is made of glass and you are trying to hammer it in with an anvil.