Newbie 1116 -- Game Over

[The Fonz]

That. I'm not voting Zach, so I guess what i'll do is cast a spotlight on the Cymru/WD/Grimm mutual interactions, because that's where the scum is.

[Nobody Special]

@Nobody Special: Can you confirm that the jailkeeper can even prevent an NK if they target a scum player who is performing the kill? This format is new and I just want to make sure that's even legit.

In this setup, if a Jailkeeper targets the specific mafia member who is performing the kill, that kill does not go through.

[bigAl]

(Bah sorry guys. Go town!)

*dies*

[cymru96]

As I quite often say... it's all kicking off now!

Sooooo...either Fonz is scum and got caught OR someone tried to kill Fonz and failed. I have previously suspected Fonz and have a perminant FoS on him so therefore I'm not ruling him out.

Saying that, I don't suspect Grimm and I kinda suspect Wordawg so I guess wordawg could have made the hit but I think it's unlikely because I think that Fonz and Word are working together. No proof so no vote. Meanwhile, ima go diggin'!

[Workdawg]

And since only us three have posted, who knows... You going to explain why you hammered so early, ve?

[The Fonz]

Workdawg: your attempts to pressure VE are at best, wasted effort. Please desist.

Cy: Why is Grimmjow not a serious candidate?

[VisceraEyes]

Mainly I was frustrated at how many times this thread has died - I mean, yes...I hammered early, but bigAl got his say in, no one was posting anything new...and at that point more than half of us were just prod-dodging. Honestly, I feel like my hammer was more PRO-town than anti-town, but obviously I'm biased.

[Zachrulez]

WOAH now... The Fonz get's on the train that this happened, attempting to confirm VE's role as jailkeeper? I smell scumteam all up in here.

Shit just got real.

Idiot town or flailing scumbag? Hmmmmm.

VE is confirmed unless someone counterclaims.

Granted I'm not very experienced at actually playing this setup, but as far as I can tell, it's still possible the "2nd power role" can be a vanilla townie, so no, he wouldn't be confirmed.

[Zachrulez]

Thank god.

VOTE: Fonz

Luckily, we have a

pro Jailer

. This was over until no NK. I chose Fonz because he had no noteworthy suspicion on him, and because he was eerily silent during bigAl's final posts. Because I jailed Fonz and no kill occurred, I suspect that his partner and he decided to have Fonz submit the kill because he's free of suspicion. This further leads me to believe that his partner is someone who IS under suspicion, making my suspect list Fonz and one of Workdawg, cymru, Zachrulez and myself (the wagon on bigAl), in order of my own suspicion.

Let's do this guys. Saddle up.

So you say you Jailed the Fonz under the presumption of trying to stop the night kill.

So sir I ask you what ever happened to THIS?

This thread is dying. It's suffocating slowly and it's time to move on. We got bigAl's claim. Time to put it to the test.

UNVOTE: Workdawg

Because no one believes me and because a vote on him is a wasted vote right now. I think that bigAl is town, and

I think that Workdawg and Zachrulez are scum.

That being said...

VOTE: bigAl

Forgive me.

So how do you go from making that statement, stating that conviction, pushing that lynch line, and then performing the action you say you did?

[VisceraEyes]

Because when bigAl flipped town for sure, I went back and reread the thread. I noticed Fonz' relative silence during the whole bigAl defense and that got me thinking. My main suspicion was Workdawg, with you as his partner because of how adamantly you've been pushing me...but as I said before, my thoughts on you were pretty tenuous and based on your attack on me early on. Fonz came to my attention post-flip.

[Workdawg]

And just think, had you reread during the 3 days left before the end of the day, you might have noticed this and not hammered a townie into the ground.

Please explain to me how ending the day early is pro-town. Then explain how it's pro-town when you are hammering someone you don't think it's scum. You answers are woefully insufficient. And The Fonz's adamant defense in your name is only making him look just as guilty in my eyes. It's mighty curious that you vote him right out the gate and he sits here defending you anyway. I don't think he's dumb enough to blatantly buddy up to his scum partner, but wtf.

[VisceraEyes]

Oh shit, forgot...thx

UNVOTE: Fonz

Like I said, I thought the fact that there was no NK meant undeniably that I had jailed scum....so that's what the vote was about. I just forgot to remove it when we decided that I'm just herpyderpy.

Ending the day early itself is NOT pro-town. Saving the inhabitants from having to prod-dodge while everyone pussyfoots around the hammer IS pro-town...I play Mafia to play...not to sit around and NOT talk about shit. I hammered bigAl because as far as I could tell, it was a done deal. I had made my 'case' (it wasn't quite a case, but you know what I mean) against you and Zach, no one was interested, and I figured a dead-town of clueless people is far worse than an active town with one less townie but more concrete information (bigAl's alignment.) If anyone had anything further to say and wasn't saying it, I guess I apologize for 'cutting you short', but as far as I could tell it was just a matter of someone 'pulling the trigger' so-to-speak. So I pulled it.

[Workdawg]

There is no reason to take time away from town, and that's what you've done. All we have is the time allotted to expose as much information as possible. The game had not stagnated, it was the weekend.

[VisceraEyes]

Yeah, I understand the concept...and I've explained my actions. As much as I love a brow-beating, can we just move on and find some scum? Fonz isn't TOTALLY out of the water obviously (I jailed him for a reason), but he's absolutely right about that protecting him too...and it makes total sense for him to be the target and not someone who's under suspicion (which if you include bigAl's suspicion, includes Grimmjow too -.-)

Don't be afraid to just post anything guys - no one is going to be lynched for just being ridiculous at this point, ideally anyway, because we're basically screwed if we mislynch again...

So what, do we mass-claim at this point? Like, after Grimm gets back? If my count is correct, if we mislynch today and I fail to stop the NK, it's over right?

[Workdawg]

Yeah... it's lynch or lose, unless the NK is prevented.

only this time we need to get all 4 town on board with the lynch, obviously scum won't lynch their partner... this is about as bad as it gets.

[The Fonz]

Granted I'm not very experienced at actually playing this setup, but as far as I can tell, it's still possible the "2nd power role" can be a vanilla townie, so no, he wouldn't be confirmed.

Except that my reading of the role PMs are that scum nightkills are compulsory (one of you MUST, rather than one of you MAY submit the NK) and the only thing that could stop them is a jailkeeping.

[Zachrulez]

Granted I'm not very experienced at actually playing this setup, but as far as I can tell, it's still possible the "2nd power role" can be a vanilla townie, so no, he wouldn't be confirmed.

Except that my reading of the role PMs are that scum nightkills are compulsory (one of you MUST, rather than one of you MAY submit the NK) and the only thing that could stop them is a jailkeeping.

I didn't realize that nightkilling suddenly became compulsory for newbie games. Want to ask the mod to be sure though.

Mod: Are nightkills compulsory as per the wording of the scum role pm?

[VisceraEyes]

I don't know...I've read games that were messed up because scum actually FORGOT to submit night kills...I'm pretty sure they're not compulsory.

[The Fonz]

They never used to be, but I'm pretty sure they are now. At least, that's my interpretation as a newbie mod.

[Grimmjow]

No, NKs are not compulsory. In my first game, we had a no kill situation because scum forgot. That being said, it's completely possible that VE is scum. Claiming a PR that soon after the day started before anyone really had anything to say, especially when people were putting suspicion on him because of his hammer, seems really fishy. And it seems completely probable that he's scum. Especially based on his play just this day.

1) Scum chooses no kill.
2) VE's going to have suspicion on him because of his hammer.
3) VE claims JK and "blocks" some townie player to throw suspicion on him.
3.1) VE claims JK and "blocks" the scum player, and then realizes that he could have protected a townie based on what said player states, therefore

both

are "town" whereas they actually are scumbuddies trying to act like confirmed town.
4) VE suggests a mass claim as to get more information who to kill N3.

I don't actually think that the Fonz is scum. I doubt he'd be so blatant as scum as to do what I suggested in 3.1. I think 3 is more likely.

@VE: Now, as for your little "no one seemed to be doing anything at the end of D2" thing, not true, because, as I had stated previously, I was going back through ISOs and the thread to see if I could pick stuff out. And with 3 days left, I had plenty of time, since you managed to do the same thing AND "submit your night action" in the 3 days of N2. But, you managed to hammer Al, preventing me from doing that. And I find it very interesting you did that just as I was going through

your

ISO.

No. Just no. I call bullshit.

Vote: VisceraEyes

[Workdawg]

IF the kill is not compulsory, I can absolutely see what Grimm is talking about... I was thinking it, but I had already dabbled in WIFOM enough.

It especially makes sense seeing as 6 players is just as bad for town as 5 is, if not worse. We still need to get all the town players to agree on a lynch or we lose. It's a little better because we have an extra person to throw ideas around with, but that can also be bad as it's another opinion on who is guilty.

It's an extremely devious plot... which we have no way to prove. There is no excuse for the things VE has done, and if our glorious mod confirms the mafia can choose not to kill anyone, I'm onboard with lynching him. I won't vote right away, because IF VE is town (and that's a GIANT if) scum could hope on and lynch him for the win.

If the NK is compulsory, then I don't know wtf is going on. VE seems so scummy to me, but it seems rather likely he really is the jailkeeper since no one has come forward with a counter-claim.

[cymru96]

So it comes down to whether night kills are compulsory or not. Right...

Here is another possibility, VE knows that even if someone does counter claim, it is unlikely that he will be lynched just in case he's the one telling the truth. Therefore he's getting a free pass to tomorrow.

Everyone, in your next post could you say for certain, are you going to counterclaim or not. If someone else has the powerole and VE is lying could you say SOONER rather than later because you might be watching responses or something but we need to move on.

[The Fonz]

Not really, even if they are not, it is incredibly unlikely scum chooses not to kill with a possible cop still out there.

Seems like every newbie game where there's a missed kill there's this massive hoo-ha about whether scum might have deliberately nokilled as part of some dastardly gambit, and it's nearly always a protection, occasionally a very newbish pair completely forgets.

[The Fonz]

@Cym: Everyone has posted since the claim. Everyone has had the chance to counter, no-one has.

Note also that Visc claimed quickly, before everyone had posted. That's a town sign. If he were scum wanting to gambit, he was taking a risk by not waiting to see if anyone else claimed power first.

Basically, it just seems really, really, unlikely that VE is faking, and it feels like this is a desperate scum attempt to discredit him.

[Nobody Special]

Mod: Are nightkills compulsory as per the wording of the scum role pm?

One of you must send the moderator a PM with your choice of who to kill and who is performing the kill before the Night deadline.

The wording of the Role PM pertains to the delivery method of the choice of the target. Whether the Mafia chooses to kill or not is up to them.