Open 322: C9++ [Game Over - Scum Win]

[don_johnson]

Abel: why are you not voting ns?

[GMan]

Vote Count 2.3

• Honest Abel (3): Amor, Darkcoffeejazz, Kcdaspot
  
• Nobody Special (1): don_johnson
  
• Darkcoffeejazz (1): Nobody Special
  
• SGRaaize (1): Honest Abel

Not voting: SGRaaize, bv310, projectmatt

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

• I've asked people to lose the personal insults once already. I want this to be the last time I do
  
  
• Day 2 Deadline is Thursday August 25th, 1:30PM EST.

[Amor]

Alright, this was like a couple pages ago but I should respond to this terribad post anyway.

I was accused of appealing to emotions, but I wasn't trying to and I had no reason to. Who was close to a lynch of whom when I appealed to emotions? I had two weak votes on me and the topic of conversation had already moved on from me by the time I decided this wasn't a good game to ask questions in. There was no pressure on me. Compare this to every other game I've played/am playing on this site where I get to L-1 on Day 1 and still am not affected by the pressure. I decided to request replacement because of the responses to my questions, not because I was under the enormous pressure of two votes, one of which was from RVS and the other of which is the result of tunneling.

Josh was close to a lynch then, and did in fact get lynched a day or two after you requested replacement. Also, you really shouldn't try to use both the meta defense and the newb defense. They're kind of mutually exclusive. So you're a newbie who doesn't know stuff, but you also have an established history of standing up to pressure?

There's a big gap between someone who's one of your top two scumreads and someone who "hasn't posted enough to analyze".

Wow, you simply cannot read. I never said he was one of my "top-two scumreads." I said that DonJosh and projectmatt were the

only

two people who had made what I thought were scummy posts.

Just look at that. Logic time: if you say only two people have acted scummy, then those people are your top two scumreads.

Just estimating, I would say DonJosh made like three posts and two of them looked scummy. And say projectmatt made like 30 posts and 20 of them looked scummy. Of course the focus is going to be on projectmatt in that situation, and I think it was for quite a while. You have to scumhunt the people who are around. If you look at Kcd's "pressure voting" on bv, you'll see that people who aren't here are just not going to be here. That's why my focus was on projectmatt to start with, and not DonJosh. Not once did I defend DonJosh, though. Can't you see that you are making stuff up?

That's a pretty questionable metric, seeing as how it punishes people for posting more, but I guess someone could believe it. But not someone who voted bv310 late Day 1. If you're saying that kcda's pressure vote there was useless, then you're admitting that you moved onto a useless vote. And a lot of your current case on Raaize is lack of content, which seems to go against this theory here.

You're backtracking even in this post. And if someone says "I'm voting X because Y" and you say "X hasn't done Y at all" that's at the very least a soft defense. This is a lot scummier than outright defending someone is, because it tries to move votes off your partner while adding an air of plausible deniability.

Who is my partner in this situation? When have I said someone hasn't done Y? I was the only person reluctant to say "X is town" in the first Day, because I consider it useless.

Your partner is DonJosh (which is, you know, the case I've been making on you all this day, so I don't know how you could be confused here) and you were denying that he was panicking, which was Matt's reason for suspicion. This was in post 155. You also said that Matt's reasons for voting Josh were bad in 151, which is another soft defense of him. Quit playing dumb.

At this point Abel's defense is just "Nuh uh!" even to simple factual statements (see the part about the top two townreads above). I also like how he admits he's trying to deflect onto NS in his next post (460).

shorthand reads evolved... my definition anyway.\

It's a type of logic that useally goes unquestioned especially when the player in question wiff the moonbeam logic looks town.

I saw a small towntell early (that i won't reveal for secret meta awesomesause sake) that become a huge towntell when he questioned his town read.

it's literally reading between the lines. if you can't do it yet someone who you have a town read on can, it's good idea to to look where he's looking. see if you can't get a glimpse of he sees. if you see SOMETHING along those lines the moonbeamer is prolly on the right track...

that's really the best i can explain it. you just have to find that sort of play elsewhere that is correct and deduce why it's correct.

This seems like a really longwinded way to say "gut".

kcda/Abel seems more emotionally driven than anything else, but I'll take any help I can get.

Sorry for all the quotes, but I really needed to highlight all the things that made me smack my head against a wall.

[Honest Abel]

EBWOP: I will say this though. All game the Empty Slot has done nothing but insult anyone who dares question him, his methods, or his affiliation. Empty Slot always overreacts.

I wish people would question my methods. Not once has anyone responded to my scumhunting. I've even asked people to question my methods. I still am. Talk about SGR.

Not near as bad as NS, sure, but instead of an explosion all at once, it's been constant the entire game. Granted I can't say I've helped, but at the same time I'm not the only one he has insulted.

Can say the same about you.

Seems everyone who challenges him is instantly stupid, or a prick. Or both.

It's not about challenging me and it's not instant. It's about not challenging me, and he's acting like a prick because he's being condescending without explaining why I'm so useless. I've challenged him to explain how any of my points on SGR are bad. I would also accept any criticism on my DCJ and projectmatt posts. The fact is, though, that nobody has ever talked about them. All people talk about is my defenses against Amor and the fact that I am actually answering people's questions about me instead of ignoring everyone like everyone is ignoring me.

[Honest Abel]

Amor, I'm a newbie who doesn't know what moonbeams are and is not very good at scumhunting. I've asked for opinions or at the veryleast responses on my scumhunting, but I'm not getting any. I'm getting opinions on my defenses. But I know how to stand up to pressure. There's nothing mutually exclusive there.

They were my top two if they were my only two, sure, I admitted that in the next post. I don't understand why I can't think someone is scummy if they've only posted two scummy things and nobody else except one talkative guy had posted anything too scummy yet. I'm not punishing people for posting more. Scumhunting people is not punishment. It's effective only because people who are here to talk will be able to defend themselves or at the very least react to scumhunting. Imagine if I spent the whole day scumhunting on bv310. Where would that lead us?

I admit that I moved onto a useless vote, but not after I realized it was useless. I didn't think bv would disappear entirely. And the thing about Kcd's wagons is that they never materialize and never add pressure to anyone, because he's essentially asking people to join his cause without thinking about it on their own. My case on SGR is not lack of content. It's icing. SGR and bv are different because SGR has avoided prods whereas bv hasn't.

I have to go to brunch, my girlfriend is giving me the evil eye.

[Kcdaspot]

... Amor can we lynch him? Please please please?

[don_johnson]

Abel: why are you not voting ns?

also, did you post a case on SG? if so, give me a post number to read, or perhaps just summarize it in a clear and concise manner. thank you.

[SGRaaize]

Abel's slot COULD become useful.

NS is confscum.

...
..
..

VOTE: abel

fuck off.

1) Why is NS scum?
2) Why are you voting Abel if NS is obvious scum?

[Kcdaspot]

I'd rather not check the wiki.

Not my fault that Miller doesn't work the same way here as it does on EpicMafia though.

What the holy fuck.

No, seriously.

What. The. Fuck.

Vote: Darkcoffeejazz

This...

He plays up D2 awesome only to deliver this.

He hasn't read the thread. he hasn't shown to read the thread. The last three of his posts?

Catchup promises. No. not when you slid by D1. he Can't be allowed to slide by today.

Abel is being voted because STILL for the life of him he can not say anything not scummy. EVEN AFTER I POINTED HIS STYLE OUT TO HIM. he hasan't changed and he won't change.

Useless slot is useless Quoth the DCJ.

If i cannot have a NS lynch I will have a abel lynch and vice versa.

Nothing else. no substitutions.

[Nobody Special]

You're too emotional to play Mafia.

(Like I'm one to talk.)

[Kcdaspot]

You're too emotional to play Mafia.

(Like I'm one to talk.)

I don't have a lot of reads; see my post about not really getting going until Day 2.

I'm waiting, essentially, for the newness of the game to wear off so we can get to some real discussion. I'm really not much use Day One. I'm better after.

well?

[Kcdaspot]

yeah keep lurking...

[Nobody Special]

I have to read. You guys post too much. What's your rush, anyway, we've got A MONTH (almost).

[Honest Abel]

Abel: why are you not voting ns?

also, did you post a case on SG? if so, give me a post number to read, or perhaps just summarize it in a clear and concise manner. thank you.

Sorry I didn't get a chance to respond to your post, my girlfriend was getting mad because she was hungry, so I had to go. I'm not even done responding to Amor, I don't think.

You mean why am I not voting NS right now, or why I said I wasn't going to join Kcd's bandwagon? I think NS has been scummy and has some unexplained behavior. However, I was in the middle of looking at SGR when Kcd was going after NS, so I would prefer to stay on him at the moment, especially because SGR hasn't addressed my post on him other than saying I have good points, and he did promise to more thoroughly address my post. The other reason I'm not voting NS is because Kcd is telling me to. I do not trust Kcd's bandwagons merely because he does not explain why we should follow him and because he doesn't care whether or not people join his bandwagons for any reason at all. In fact, it seems like he would prefer it is people joined his bandwagons for NO reason, which is not very pro-town because it's basically inviting scum to lynch people with no repercussions. I will focus on NS when I decide NS is the person to focus on. I'm not going to do it right now just because Kcd is pleading for me to.

Here's my post on SGR. It really isn't very long. I will even more briefly summarize the key points and the auxiliary points if you want me to, just say the word: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p3298584

[Honest Abel]

Actually, here you go:

Main scum alarm on SGR:

Changes his mind about Kcd's "three-scum mistake" being a scum slip to being a town mistake for no reason other than to appear at disagreement with DonJosh, while still saying that he would be fine to lynch Kcd just in case DonJosh succeeded in forming a bandwagon on Kcd.

Support points:

• Posted several times only to avoid prod
  
• Keeps promising in-depth discussion and never follows through
  
• Certainty of DonJosh alignment too strong
  
• "Good job on lynching scum" sounds untownly

[Honest Abel]

Amor, I can criticize a dumb reason to vote for someone while still thinking that someone is scummy. Calling projectmatt out for voting for DonJosh for a stupid reason isn't defending DonJosh, it's pointing out that they are scumbuddies.

[Honest Abel]

And while we're on that topic, a lot of the criticism against me seems to be that I attacked projectmatt because he was going after DonJosh, and you all now think that projectmatt is town? They were clearly bussing each other in the beginning of the game. I still find projectmatt near the top of my scum list.

[Kcdaspot]

it's takes NS a month to read a 22 page game.

it takes me 2 hours to read a 36 page game. (ongoing last mention of this i swear)

ooooooooooooooookay

[Honest Abel]

Maybe he's taking notes.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

it's takes NS a month to read a 22 page game.

it takes me 2 hours to read a 36 page game. (ongoing last mention of this i swear)

ooooooooooooooookay

Maybe he hasn't thought up an alibi yet. Just kidding.

[Amor]

I have to read. You guys post too much. What's your rush, anyway, we've got A MONTH (almost).

Um, you do realize that this isn't like a school project where you leave everything to the last minute? This is a game we allegedly play for fun? Anyways, please catch up, because we could really use some more eyes on the game. It seems like half the town just isn't playing.

Main scum alarm on SGR: Changes his mind about Kcd's "three-scum mistake" being a scum slip to being a town mistake for no reason other than to appear at disagreement with DonJosh, while still saying that he would be fine to lynch Kcd just in case DonJosh succeeded in forming a bandwagon on Kcd.

Support points:

Posted several times only to avoid prod
Keeps promising in-depth discussion and never follows through
Certainty of DonJosh alignment too strong
"Good job on lynching scum" sounds untownly

This case actually isn't bad, even if it doesn't fit with your explanation above about "most scummy posts". The only point I strongly disagree with is your point about certainty. I think how confident you make yourself sound is just personal rhetorical style, not a tell. If anything scum are more likely to be hesitant, given that they want to give themselves a backdoor in case the wagon doesn't pan out.

Raaize, can you explain why you changed your mind about kcda's "slip"?

Abel, what do you think about NS? He also meets several of these points.

[Honest Abel]

Good point about certainty. I suppose the distinction is determining whether someone is saying something like that out of appearing confident to scum or because they actually know something we don't. In the cases of projectmatt and SGR, though, they were proven to be right when DonJosh flipped scum. So the "certainty factor" doesn't just strike me as confidence in their abilities, especially compared to the level of their scumhunting/reasoning.

I don't believe that my "support points" are a good enough reason to determine scum by themselves. That's why they're support points are not the main points. But any good scum case needs to have more than one point. It's about how things add up. You can't just someone based on one post, like some other players are doing in this game (think Kcd's town read of DCJ based on one post despite him admitting constantly that DCJ is acting counter to the town read).

That said, I will look at NS a little more closely soon. I so not want to let SGR slide through inactivity, though.

[SGRaaize]

.... i read the setup as 3 scum:

3 maf or 2 maf one SK.

???????????????????

hang on...

I may just be a idiot now.

Seems pretty belieavable

[Nobody Special]

No, it seems more like a scumslip.

Amor, I don't leave things till the last minute (well, not

always...

). I'm watching, and reading. There's something specific I'm waiting for Kcda to say, and he hasn't said it yet. Not sure if he will, and I don't yet want to ask him directly.

Unrelated, I still haven't gotten an answer to this:

KCDA: Am I scum for the same reason that DCJ is town?

[Kcdaspot]

OH YES YOU DID.

YOU REALLY AREN'T READING THE THREAD AREN'T YOU