Newbie 1138 - Game Over! Town Win!

For Newbie Games, which have a set format and experienced moderators. Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #100 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:56 am

Post by cavjj »

Right well let's look at the simple fact here. 5 people voted for BB's lynch. Including yourself which I will address later on in the post. That's
5
. I want to go back to something I said earlier in the thread.

I would rather go for an early successful scum lynch early on through gut instinct and risk losing a VT if that means that we have one less scum embedding themselves into the game, gathering... "supporters" (for want of a better word)


I stand by that, as shown by my actions. The analysis posted by IAI from a previous game concurs. Funnilly enough, your essentially agreed with as well. This post is your reply to the above post I have quoted:

This is something I often think about, too. Because the more someone talks, the more explaining and defending that person can do. I don't know about anyone else, but I am usually pretty sympathetic in those situations and am easy swayed, or at least made to hesitate, by explanations. So sometimes, an early scum read is a good thing to lynch on, but it takes a lot of the detective work out of the game.


If you were so concerned about an early lynch, then why did you leave you vote on BBmolla when they were on L-1. In fact, if you were so concerned about an early lynch, why vote at all?
Strange how you come on here D2 all brazen for hammering someone that you actually voted for.....


It's a newbie game, potential scum tells from noobs can often be put down to inexperience. Let me be clear on that point, I'm referring to BBmolla throughout the game and not my hammer. I do not attribute that hammer to my inexperience in online mafia. I stand by what I did. I stand by that quote above.

5 of us (3 if 2 scum were in the vote) made a mistake. That includes you ....

______________________________________________________________________

So let's talk about Scumhunter then. I made one tiny comment asking whether he was lurking (to which he said yes!). Think like a scum for a moment (maybe you don't have to...). My hammer is obviously going to arouse suspicion. Maybe it's extreme newbishness, maybe I'm scum, maybe I'm confident in my reads. But N1, two scum are reading the game and going: "Wow, cavjj is in trouble here, if we get rid of Scumhunter he's going to look even worse...". I wouldn't be that stupid if I was scum.

______________________________________________________________________

I didn't have a massive Scumhunter issue, I addressed (with a three word comment) something he said. You are reading too much into it. In all honesty, I was more suspicious of you than I was of BBmolla or Scumhunter. But I gave you the chance to answer my concerns, which you did and I took the vote off. No I didn't gave BB a chance and made a mistake. I accept that. Why didn't I? I think a mixture of instinct and a desire to get D1 over with, something a couple of other players agreed with.

So that's why I hammered. I leave you with one question. If I was scum, obviously hammering BBmolla was going to arouse suspicion and probably start a bandwagon (which I'm now fully expecting). Knowing that, why would I still do it? Because I'm PT and we had a chance to get rid of scum.
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Post Post #101 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:57 am

Post by cavjj »

EBWOP

Strange how you come on here D2 all brazen for hammering someone that you actually voted for.....

Should read:

Strange how you come on here D2 all brazen at me for hammering someone that you actually voted for.....
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Post Post #102 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:53 am

Post by whilst »

cavjj
, first I just want to know why this never materialized:
cavjj wrote:Alright all, just got back and promised a post, will be with you shortly


Instead of making a post (sorry if I missed it...), you came back and just hammered. Day 1 discussion should have continued, it's extremely useful for us in the following days.

cavjj wrote:So let's talk about Scumhunter then. I made one tiny comment asking whether he was lurking (to which he said yes!). Think like a scum for a moment (maybe you don't have to...). My hammer is obviously going to arouse suspicion. Maybe it's extreme newbishness, maybe I'm scum, maybe I'm confident in my reads. But N1, two scum are reading the game and going: "Wow, cavjj is in trouble here, if we get rid of Scumhunter he's going to look even worse...". I wouldn't be that stupid if I was scum.


I think your reasoning if off here. The mafia would never kill anyone that isn't posting (or just lurking). If you're mafia, you kill someone who is useful. You kill someone who is going to put "2 and 2 together" and figure you out. A player that isn't here can't vote to lynch you.
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Post Post #103 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:56 am

Post by whilst »

Right, just thought that over. I guess you're saying:

1. the mafia makes you, cavjj, look bad
2. the town ends up lynching cavjj
3. In the end its two townies dead, cavjj and scumhunter
4. It is also Night 2, mafia gets another kill

I don't know. I still think the mafia would lynch someone helpful, than try to frame another player.
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Post Post #104 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:07 am

Post by Bricktoes »

cavjj wrote:EBWOP

Strange how you come on here D2 all brazen for hammering someone that you actually voted for.....

Should read:

Strange how you come on here D2 all brazen at me for hammering someone that you actually voted for.....

There's a huge difference between a vote and a hammer. You're trying to say he's suspicious for voting for someone? You're either a bad scumhnter or obvious mafia or both.
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Post Post #105 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:07 am

Post by Bricktoes »

Hey whilst, can we get some of your reads now?
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Post Post #106 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:13 am

Post by whilst »

dicknose wrote:Hey whilst, can we get some of your reads now?

Fair request. As soon as everyone posts their reactions to N1, I'll let you guys know how I feel on everyone.

Actually, let's not just leave the question just to me.
Once everyone has responded
, we should
all
post what we think of everyone. The responses + the knowledge of two innocent players should help make some decent headway.
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Post Post #107 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:28 am

Post by Bricktoes »

whilst wrote:
dicknose wrote:Hey whilst, can we get some of your reads now?

Fair request. As soon as everyone posts their reactions to N1, I'll let you guys know how I feel on everyone.

Actually, let's not just leave the question just to me.
Once everyone has responded
, we should
all
post what we think of everyone. The responses + the knowledge of two innocent players should help make some decent headway.

Why wait? Considering you've openly refused to share your thoughts, I'd like to hear something from you.
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Post Post #108 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:32 am

Post by whilst »

dicknose wrote:Why wait? Considering you've openly refused to share your thoughts, I'd like to hear something from you.

If I make reactions now, I'm only using the information of two innocent townies. I can make a better analysis after I see everyone's thoughts on the N2 lynch and cavjj's hammer.

I've shared my thoughts on cavjj, now I'm just waiting for everyone else.
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Post Post #109 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:38 am

Post by cavjj »

whilst wrote:cavjj, first I just want to know why this never materialized:

cavjj wrote:Alright all, just got back and promised a post, will be with you shortly


Temporary limited access reasons. I posted that at 9:56pm my time (I am in the UK - GMT. Gave it up as a bad job and went to bed. I had access via my phone but could not make the wall post I wanted to make. Woke up the next morning before work and hammered at 7:56 am before I left for work due to my internet being back up. I apologise, appreciate there is very little I can do to prove that, and hope you will accept that.




whilst wrote:Right, just thought that over. I guess you're saying:

1. the mafia makes you, cavjj, look bad
2. the town ends up lynching cavjj
3. In the end its two townies dead, cavjj and scumhunter
4. It is also Night 2, mafia gets another kill

I don't know. I still think the mafia would lynch someone helpful, than try to frame another player.


Basically, combine that with the fact I've already made myself "look bad" with the hammer. Scumhunter going is a sensible move from scum and I can see why they've done it, it doesn't help me in anyway at all.

dicknose wrote:There's a huge difference between a vote and a hammer. You're trying to say he's suspicious for voting for someone? You're either a bad scumhnter or obvious mafia or both.


It's not JUST a vote though. It's an L-1 vote. Abel isn't top of my list, it was a rebuttal to him specifically asking about the hammer but having voted himself for it.
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Post Post #110 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:54 am

Post by Bricktoes »

some notes i wanted to keep in mind (i just woke up so these may be off): odds are 14.3% per player for seven. odds are 100% that at least one scum voted. 71.6% that scum voted for bbmolla. 41.9% that all scum didn't vote for bbmolla, or 28.6%. odds that both scum voted are 85.7.

cavjjscumhunting mostly based on misleading misreads. promises post, only shows up to hammer.
cavjj wrote:As I have said, as scum, it has to be the most experienced N1 until a PR is revealed.
would you care to elaborate on this?

you also bring up a good point of how you've brought two players close to lynch. if abel's suspicious for a L-1 vote, so are you, and even more so. you can't put someone at L-1, then later hammer someone else and say that the person who voted before you is suspicious.


i am innocentwouldn't it be hilarious if iai and abel were the scumteam? not getting much otherwise.


darkclaymore
DarkClaymore wrote:However, considering it's my fifth mafia game and I yet to be scum even once... :igmeou:

as far as people discussing their likelihood of being scum.

we seem to be progressing along the lines of his night zero answer to abel. another pointless vote for bbmolla, besides hoping to end the day.


wickedjstri feel like you've done little aside from tell us how to format posts. please contribute more.
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Post Post #111 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:56 am

Post by Bricktoes »

oh, you don't have to elaborate on that particular quote, cavjj, i was just reading it wrong.
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Post Post #112 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:09 am

Post by Honest Abel »

cavjj, I don't have time right now to read your whole posts or anyone else's posts, but I want to respond to one thing I glanced at. You said that the mafia are trying to make you look bad somehow. How is this possible, considering you were the last vote on both bandwagons? You were the one who controlled where you appeared on the bandwagon both times. How could they preemptively make you look bad not knowing you would follow the vote? Or why didn't you realize this possibility before you voted?
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Post Post #113 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:11 am

Post by cavjj »

Fair enough dicknose, wouldn't that be wickedest anyway?

So if you had read them, you'd know I was referring to getting rid of Scumhunter after what I'd said earlier in the thread..
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Post Post #114 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:11 am

Post by cavjj »

Sorry, second line was for Abel
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Post Post #115 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:52 am

Post by Honest Abel »

Ah, my bad. Really shouldn't post without reading. I will be back later with appropriate responses and a couple more questions.
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Post Post #116 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:06 am

Post by Honest Abel »

Actually I have a momentary lapse in work at the moment. Here are my thoughts on your first response to me:

Sure, five people voted for BBmolla. Only one person hammered him. Hammered him preemptively, abruptly ending the day. I'm sure Scumhunter had the same idea as me, which was voting for BBmolla to pressure him into answering questions, etc. I'm not so sure about the rest of the votes, except for you, because you hammered. Hammering means you think that person is scum and you want to lynch them. I did not want to lynch BBmolla, at least not so quickly. I can't speak for the others, but this should be enough to show you that you can't defend your hammer to me by pointing out that four other people voted for BBmolla as well, especially considering one of them is proven town and one of them is me.

I said that I think about it as well. I don't ever act on it. I by far prefer detective work over just lynching whoever based on gut and hoping the odds are in our favor. I didn't think your preference for gut meant that you would hammer given the first opportunity without thinking about it. Maybe I Am Scum and DarkClaymore did.

I "left my vote on BBmolla at L-1" because WHEN I LEFT, HE WAS AT L-2. As SOON as I saw DarkClaymore's vote in the morning, I went to unvote without reading any further. Of course, when I scrolled down, I saw that you hammered him without giving me a chance to remove my vote or giving ANYONE a chance to think about it further. I'm not convinced that you are scum yet, but I am convinced that the mislynch is your fault. Please don't try to deny that, at least. You should not be standing by what you did. It was bad play. It was preemptive, rushed, and you didn't give anyone a chance to back off. My vote was a pressure vote, not a "I'm certain this guy is scum, let's lynch!" vote. Am I supposed to remove my votes on people every night before I go to bed fearing that they're going to be lynched before I wake up? That's stupid, but it looks like that's the way it's going to have to be if you think you were in the right there.

Busy again, be back in a bit.
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Post Post #117 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:10 am

Post by I Am Innocent »

Home for my lunch.

Here are my thoughts regarding D1/N1/and what has been said so far D2:

D1, did not like:

DarkClaymore wrote:...Honestly, I just want D1 to end and hopefully N1 will give us more info to work with. So I'll just join the wagon. Also, when people tend to see two players arguing, they often say "Nah. It's probably two townies gunning at each other". But I have seen cases in which it was proven false. While not too much of a solid reason, at least it still is a reason.

VOTE: BBmolla


Does not feel like you are convinced BBmolla is scum, more you just want the day over with.

Also, do not like this post (and followup post/hammer):

cavjj wrote:
BBmolla wrote:I can understand the want to end D1. I'm at L-1. Does anyone have any intent on hammering?


I am considering it to be fair, in my eyes, you are only probably third on my list of suspects, but N1 will give us lots more to think about and as I have previously said, I would rather risk losing a VT than letting a potential scum escape, even if it is D1 and we haven't got lots to go on.


"only probably third" on my list of suspects. But yet ready to hammer, and without a claim? Yet you think BBmolla is VT, can you explain why?

**********

N1, have no idea scumhunter was the choice. He came off as very null D1, so not sure what scum was thinking.

**********

D2

Honest Abel wrote:I'm also just going to point this out now since it's fairly obvious and it's bound to come out anyway. Let's compare both day 1 bandwagons:

Honest Abel (4):
I Am Innocent
,
Dark Claymore
,
BBmolla
,
cavjj

BBmolla (5):
Scumhunter
, Honest Abel,
I Am Innocent
,
Dark Claymore
,
cavjj


I think you are onto something (see above), but regarding me you do know my vote for you was an RVS vote that was the 1st of the game, right? As soon as I came in and saw others had taken you to L-1, I took my RVS vote off and put it on BBmolla, my #1 suspect. Quite different than the DC and cavjj.

whilst wrote:Fair request. As soon as everyone posts their reactions to N1, I'll let you guys know how I feel on everyone.


reactions to N1?

*************

@Dicknose, Post 110 you list notes on 4 of the other 6 players. Do you have no notes for the other 2 then?

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Post Post #118 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:16 am

Post by Honest Abel »

Quick response to I Am Innocent after skimming: I'm not so much concerned with how scummy your votes were, although your vote on BBmolla left a bad taste in my mouth. The real funny part is that your buddy, DarkClaymore, gives you away both times by following your votes with bad reasoning.
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Post Post #119 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:40 am

Post by Honest Abel »

Maybe you should have a talk with him about that Night 2.
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Post Post #120 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:53 am

Post by Honest Abel »

Oh wait, one of you is going to be lynched by then.

VOTE: I Am Innocent
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Post Post #121 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:14 am

Post by DarkClaymore »

Oh no! :eek:
BUSTED!
He got us
I Am Innocent
:lol:

cavjj
is really quite weird. It's true how his attempt to make others look as bad as him while it's
only
him who hammered is kind of :shifty:
Also... wall of text some people don't even bother reading. :shifty:

So the IC wasn't killed. Wine or scum?

Maybe now we should ask "Who would you have killed during the night?".
I still would have chosen the IC. Based on the given answers here to the similar question before, I doubt the mafia would have attempted to use the same logic I used when answering the question (which was: trying to frame the IC by not killing him). Simply because it looked like I'd be the only one who'd think in this direction. And I doubt they have any reason to mislead a sole individual from the town who others find suspicious anyway.


Hence, since you weren't killed even though you should have been:
VOTE: Wickedestjr
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Post Post #122 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:27 am

Post by Honest Abel »

I Am Innocent and DarkClaymore's pretended cluelessness about why Scumhunter was killed is laughable. Lesser reason: It makes cavjj look a little scummy. Greater reason: Doc definitely wouldn't be protecting Scumhunter. This happens in almost every mafia game I've seen. Nobody goes for the obvious kill on the first night because the potential doctor will protect the obvious kill. Also, nobody would be going after the IC after my question about N0, would they? ;)
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Post Post #123 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:29 am

Post by Honest Abel »

Let's get this out of the way: If you were mafia, who would you have killed N1 and why?
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Post Post #124 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:32 am

Post by Bricktoes »

I'm pretty annoyed by whilst's outright refusal to say anything. Abel, is this how he plays?

Abel, who would you have killed last night and why?

And looking at the activity, with Darkclaymore and Wickedjstr each posting less than Bbmolla and only more than Scumhunter, we need to hear more from them, or else.
vote: Dark Claymore




And I'll just leave this here in remembrance:
BBmolla wrote:I personally am not a fan of day 1 as it's almost always a ML.

Never forget.
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