Newbie 1138 - Game Over! Town Win!

[Bricktoes]

Has anyone slipped?

[Honest Abel]

DC, you're actually saying that you've been intentionally scummy? So you won't get killed at night? What is the use? Do you really think you're of more value to the town than anyone else playing that you need to be the one who's kept alive until the end of the game?

[Honest Abel]

I Am Innocent: thoughts on DarkClaymore ASAP.

[DarkClaymore]

Has anyone slipped?

Umm... I haven't seen anything good yet. Still, I believe it is worth observing. Well, now maybe not since I already came and said this. It's just that Abel put too much effort into searching for why I'm scum, so I felt like I'm doing more harm than good atm.

DC, you're actually saying that you've been intentionally scummy? So you won't get killed at night? What is the use? Do you really think you're of more value to the town than anyone else playing that you need to be the one who's kept alive until the end of the game?

No, I'm not. Actually, that's why I play in a style that can get me easily lynched. It's just that I like observing this kind of situations. It is most interesting to see people react to actions like this. In another game I'm playing atm, I tracked down scum on D1 by relying on this kind of stuff. Not that I could convince anyone to follow, but I was still right.

[Bricktoes]

X was a player about who everybody talked and discussed whatever he is scum. He was the "most suspicious player" that day. Aside of that, there was also player Y who many people suspected but didn't have anything to solid in order to make others follow them for a lynch so they didn't really stress it. But since in that voting pattern you can vote for whoever you suspect, people tended to vote for X

and

Y. Yet it turned out that actually Y got more votes because he was on more players' "suspects list" even though rarely was the first one.

My point is. It's not like individuals don't hit scum in their speculating, it's just, when we need to lynch together, people just prefer to vote in agreement with others so that we can actually lynch someone. So in that example, people would have voted X because "everybody talk about him and seem to suspect him" rather than Y because "no one really seems to strongly suspect him". That's why I believe many times weaker reasons are better to follow than the loud ones.

Every other active player has suspected you, even if you aren't at the top of their list. You're at best an ineffectual player who's done nothing to help town and according to you, may as well be lynched.

[Honest Abel]

If you like observing situations like this, read other games where it happens. You're not helping town. You're actually hurting town by appearing scummy if you are a townie. Stop defending your actions as though they make sense in some way. They don't. Start helping the town or you're getting lynched.

[Honest Abel]

Also, where is Wickedestjr? Dude hasn't posted in a day and only has five posts total. Seems like he is really preoccupied with his other newbie game and a mini game. Why do people stretch themselves so thin like that? I wouldn't mind getting a replacement for him since he hasn't really contributed anything anyway. I'm sure he's going to keep posting now and then to avoid prod, but it's really not fair not to have an active IC.

[Bricktoes]

he said he'd post today and he just got lynched, so he has no excuse not to be more active here. he's getting a vote after today, though.

[Bricktoes]

i get off work at ten and then i'll vote if he hasn't posted.

[DarkClaymore]

If you like observing situations like this, read other games where it happens. You're not helping town. You're actually hurting town by appearing scummy if you are a townie. Stop defending your actions as though they make sense in some way. They don't. Start helping the town or you're getting lynched.

Again. People tend to not agree with me most of the time. Hence there's nothing I can do to convince you otherwise.
And how exactly am I supposed to help? Entertain you with silly jokes?
Every reason I give you write off as "weak" anyway. I have nothing to do to help town as I have nothing more to say atm. I said everything I could and no one found it interesting anyway. Playing lynchbait is the only option I have which could help me to get better reads. And I hope it still can as people find my reasoning about it scummy.

[DarkClaymore]

X was a player about who everybody talked and discussed whatever he is scum. He was the "most suspicious player" that day. Aside of that, there was also player Y who many people suspected but didn't have anything to solid in order to make others follow them for a lynch so they didn't really stress it. But since in that voting pattern you can vote for whoever you suspect, people tended to vote for X

and

Y. Yet it turned out that actually Y got more votes because he was on more players' "suspects list" even though rarely was the first one.

My point is. It's not like individuals don't hit scum in their speculating, it's just, when we need to lynch together, people just prefer to vote in agreement with others so that we can actually lynch someone. So in that example, people would have voted X because "everybody talk about him and seem to suspect him" rather than Y because "no one really seems to strongly suspect him". That's why I believe many times weaker reasons are better to follow than the loud ones.

Every other active player has suspected you, even if you aren't at the top of their list. You're at best an ineffectual player who's done nothing to help town and according to you, may as well be lynched.

This is not true. Of course, it's not like this idea is optimal and will always work. But it worked in that game. People just tend to suspect the right players with not enough basis to make others follow. Or even to convince themselves for that matter. Scum tend to slip away like this a lot. Playing the "somewhat suspected" role which can be used as a reason to explain why the player wasn't night killed, while in the same time not being suspected enough to get lynched. A very simple and efficient scum strategy.

[I Am Innocent]

I didn't push a lynch, I left my vote on BBmolla because I was in the middle of pressuring/pursuing him. Not once did I say "Let's lynch this guy."

Once again, a lie as shown below:

That's a good explanation to give to stubborn no-lynch advocates in addition to all the other benefits of lynching.

P.S. My vote stands. I'm convinced enough. Is anyone else interested in having a go at BBmolla? Anyone interested in critiquing my line of questioning/reasoning?

"I'm convinced enough" - Sounds like this was your number 1 suspect at the moment, not the 2 players D2 you claim you were wary of at this point...

"Is anyone else interested in having a go at BBmolla?" - I read that and still read that as you are pushing the BBmolla lynch. Especially following "I'm convinced enough"

It's not suspicious that I would make known my concerns before Day 1 ended when it ended far ahead of schedule. I didn't know it would end mere hours after I went to bed. Already explained this.

But you did not even hint that you had other suspicions. That combined with the quote above from you conflicts with everything you are saying D2 about me and DC. That is why I find you scummy.

Oh, and a great scumtell is trying to berate a town player/town player argument. See below for repeated underlined examples of that:

What you're saying to me

is not scumhunting or protown

.

Your responses are weak

attempts at counterattack. You are not advancing your case. You are repeating things and

attempting to twist them

a little more each time. This is scummy behavior.

It's not suspicious that I would make known my concerns before Day 1 ended when it ended far ahead of schedule. I didn't know it would end mere hours after I went to bed. Already explained this.

You and the explanation are completely different entities. It wasn't even your explanation. You quoted something someone else said. Which is scummy on its own because it's an attempt to make you look like your'e contributing something when really you're just quoting other games.

Again, FoSing me and trying to make me look scummy

with poor/twisted reasons

and selective quoting is just making you look worse. But please, don't stop just because I say so.

[I Am Innocent]

What is the reason that I'm your target other than the fact that I'm pointing out your scumminess? None that I can see. Your posts aren't protown. You are not scumhunting me. You're just trying to make me look bad so that you can look better. Pretty sure even newbs can see through that.

More scumtell examples of you berating me and my scumhunting abilities.

[Honest Abel]

@DC: So how has playing lynchbait helped you, and how are you planning to us it to help town?

IAI, I'm leaving work now, so I'll respond to your tedious arguments in a little while, pal.

[I Am Innocent]

Here's a question: if you were scum, how confident would you feel right now?

I guess that question would depend on who my teammate was.

[I Am Innocent]

IAI - You seem to keep saying that you suspect me and you've not said why.

I reckon you're scum backtracking and trying to start a bandwagon due to my actions D1 in case I don't get lynched without your help....

Sure I have:

Home for my lunch.

Here are my thoughts regarding D1/N1/and what has been said so far D2:

D1, did not like:

...Honestly, I just want D1 to end and hopefully N1 will give us more info to work with. So I'll just join the wagon. Also, when people tend to see two players arguing, they often say "Nah. It's probably two townies gunning at each other". But I have seen cases in which it was proven false. While not too much of a solid reason, at least it still is a reason.

VOTE: BBmolla

Does not feel like you are convinced BBmolla is scum, more you just want the day over with.

Also, do not like this post (and followup post/hammer):

I can understand the want to end D1. I'm at L-1. Does anyone have any intent on hammering?

I am considering it to be fair, in my eyes, you are only probably third on my list of suspects, but N1 will give us lots more to think about and as I have previously said, I would rather risk losing a VT than letting a potential scum escape, even if it is D1 and we haven't got lots to go on.

"only probably third" on my list of suspects. But yet ready to hammer, and without a claim? Yet you think BBmolla is VT, can you explain why?

**********

N1, have no idea scumhunter was the choice. He came off as very null D1, so not sure what scum was thinking.

**********

D2

I'm also just going to point this out now since it's fairly obvious and it's bound to come out anyway. Let's compare both day 1 bandwagons:

Honest Abel (4):

I Am Innocent

,

Dark Claymore

,

BBmolla

,

cavjj

BBmolla (5):

Scumhunter

, Honest Abel,

I Am Innocent

,

Dark Claymore

,

cavjj

I think you are onto something (see above), but regarding me you do know my vote for you was an RVS vote that was the 1st of the game, right? As soon as I came in and saw others had taken you to L-1, I took my RVS vote off and put it on BBmolla, my #1 suspect. Quite different than the DC and cavjj.

Fair request. As soon as everyone posts their reactions to N1, I'll let you guys know how I feel on everyone.

reactions to N1?

*************

@Dicknose, Post 110 you list notes on 4 of the other 6 players. Do you have no notes for the other 2 then?

My Top 2
cavjj
DarkClaymore

[I Am Innocent]

I Am Innocent: thoughts on DarkClaymore ASAP.

Started the Day as my #2 suspect, currently #3 based on your acting more scummy.

[I Am Innocent]

I'd like everyone to list their top 2 suspects.

[cavjj]

1. Dark Claymore
2. IAI

[DarkClaymore]

@DC: So how has playing lynchbait helped you, and how are you planning to us it to help town?

I'm not sure whatever I should or shouldn't say out loud the way I tend to analyze players' reactions to lynching a lynchbait. If I reveal everything then scum will know how to mislead me. However if I don't, you'll now say something along the lines of "you are scum who attempted to justify his scumminess with some poor logic and now running away with yet another shitty reason as you can't make up new stupid reasons".

Still, I think I'll keep quiet for now. If you want to lynch me then go ahead. At least I'll have more to work with for a while.

I'd like everyone to list their top 2 suspects.

Umm... I hardly have a list tbh but if I had to pick then the list would be:

1) Wickedestjr
2) Honest Abel

Despite what I said, cavjj's hammer sounds like an "obvious" and "loud" reason so I'll pass on it for now.

[whilst]

All you do by being

too active

as town is becoming night kill target. True, active scumhunting is good. But no need to overdo it. If you believe you are good at scumhunting and can really help the town, why do this in a way that will night kill you? It's much better to do in a more moderate way and survive longer for the sake of the town.

To be fair, as long as there are other "too active" players in the game, none of them need to worry that they are standing out.

1. Dark Claymore
2. IAI

cavjj is your current vote cast on DarkClaymore? I know it doesn't mean much if he only has 1 or 2 votes on him, but I'm just curious.

Umm... I hardly have a list tbh but if I had to pick then the list would be:

1) Wickedestjr
2) Honest Abel

I'm going to assume you put Wickedstjr at the top because of the fact that

he could be waiting for us to lynch each other

, and is not really missing in action. Am I correct? I'm asking because I've had the same rising suspicion. I don't think it's paranoia.

Still, I would put him at three or four on my list. I still want to hear his thoughts. My top two (yes, still):
1. cavjj
2. DarkClaymore

[DarkClaymore]

I'm going to assume you put Wickedstjr at the top because of the fact that

he could be waiting for us to lynch each other

, and is not really missing in action. Am I correct? I'm asking because I've had the same rising suspicion. I don't think it's paranoia.

Inactives aren't helping anyone. If anything, they only cause harm.
And yes, the fact he didn't respond at all for such a long while makes me wonder whatever he assumes he won't be lynched even if he lurks. Scum or not, I don't like this kind of play. That and what I said before about him not being killed. Yeah, the weak reason.

[Honest Abel]

"I'm convinced enough" - Sounds like this was your number 1 suspect at the moment, not the 2 players D2 you claim you were wary of at this point...

I'm convinced enough to leave my vote on him. Which is why I said "I'm convinced enough" right after saying "My vote stands."

"Is anyone else interested in having a go at BBmolla?" - I read that and still read that as you are pushing the BBmolla lynch. Especially following "I'm convinced enough"

Have a go, meaning put some pressure on him, ask some questions. Basically, do what I did. Not vote for him without reason without adding pressure or asking him questions. It was not an invitation for you to jump on the bandwagon for no reason.

But you did not even hint that you had other suspicions. That combined with the quote above from you conflicts with everything you are saying D2 about me and DC. That is why I find you scummy.

What is your fascination with hints? I found you scummy toward the end of D1, found you scummy while I reread the thread during N1, and find you scummy today. And I've explained why. A hint on D1 would have added nothing of value to my case on you. You're merely pointing it out that I didn't leave a hint to add a flavor of a lie to my case, which adds up to nothing more than irrelevant slander. Again, you're aiming to make me look bad to make yourself look better, not aiming for the truth. You are not being protown.

Oh, and a great scumtell is trying to berate a town player/town player argument. See below for repeated underlined examples of that:

I really don't understand what you're saying here, and your examples don't speak for themselves. Explain more 1. what you mean and 2. why it's a great scumtell and 3. how it's relevant and 4. how you're using it to help the town, and perhaps you'll give us all a better understanding of how I'm a terrible, anti-town player and you're saving the day. Otherwise, I don't have any faith in you as town.

I'd also like to point out that while you are making it look like you're taking personal offense to my posts, there is no reason for it. If I were to say that some of dicknoses posts aren't protown, he would probably figure out why and begin to do something else that was protown. I know he would do this because I'm confident that he's town. I'm not criticizing your gameplay or intelligence. I'm merely pointing out that you are not helping the town and the way you chose not to help the town has a particularly scummy scent to it.

[Honest Abel]

More scumtell examples of you berating me and my scumhunting abilities.

I wouldn't berate your scumhunting abilities if you were scumhunting. You're not. You're merely replying to me and countering my reads on you by trying to find irrelevant flaws in my arguments aimed to make me look bad.

[Honest Abel]

As far as I'm concerned, the only thing holding this Day back from proceeding is the fact that Wickedestjr needs to share his input. I'm prepared to lynch either I Am Innocent or DarkClaymore, preferably in that order. I Am Innocent is being outrageously scummy, whereas DarkClaymore is being outrageously scummy but has the excuse of being a newb. I'd also prefer to kill the brains of the operation rather than the lackey, so that the subsequent mafia actions won't be quite as well-planned.