Mini 1193: Hacker's Panic mafia. (Game Over)

[CooLskins]

Thanks des. On my phone now. Ill answer the rest tomorrow night, but quickly, if you reread 599 skins is not in the lynch pool. Id feel more comfortable if you unvoted for a while. I will be busy the next few days and I would like to be sure and get some final thoughts into the thread if I am to be lynched.

Ok, I misread that post. Retract point 3).

unvote

, we have enough time, but my vote is still "on" you.

fuck you. We should have lynched don over the week end. I took the weekend off (as well as monday). And I come back and see don st6ill alive. Pathetic excuse for a town.

@xvart, top 3 scums, as well as Havingfitz.

[quote="fitz]

I don't think you are town₁

....

but as I do not know who is town and who isn't²

, doubt comes into play.

I didn't care for the fact that don had a pool of three players he thought was scum but was voting outside of that pool³

so parama was able to talk me into switching. In case you did not notice, the aforementioned doubt led to an unvote so the "terrible vote hop" is no more (atm).[/quote]
1) SO you have no town reads on d-4. Correct?
2) So you have no scum reads on d-4. Correct?
3)So you are easily swayed by other people and you helplessly sheep them. Correct?

Can we lynch this guy tomorrow? Please, please, I have candy, and a rope.


Lynch don now. No really, don is scum to the bone. Lynch me if I'm wrong.

I'm gonna cluster PM bub about posting to xvart.

[imaginality]

But, looking more at AH and havingfitz's interactions with Zodiark as per havingfitz's request, I see AntiHero was first to point out Zodiark's contradiction, which led to the wagon on him.

bobs actually brought this up first (270). Antihero first mentioned it 297.

You're right. Okay, that puts havingfitz back into the scummier side of things for me.

I can't remember and haven't gone back to look at their connections but does anyone else think Fitz/Kondi and CooLskins could be a likely scum pair?

I could see that, possibly. CooLskins talks about the "very strong case against the fitz player slot" in post 601, but he's voting don_johnson: this fits with the 'put buddy in #2 slot, vote townie' approach to being scum, if don's town. Earlier, he FoSes kondi while voting don (iso15), and does an "I think kondi's scummiest but Bub thinks don's scummiest so we're voting don" split read thing in iso16. The main difficulty is it would mean he's bussing both his buddies when he calls Zodiark and havingfitz scumbuddies in iso48. But then, he still pushes harder for a don lynch today, so it's possible they're buddies looking from this direction.

havingfitz doesn't comment on CooLskins at all until iso9, where he has a little tirade against him. And then, calm again in iso10. I think the end of iso9 could be scum distancing. The 'his posts are scummy but I think he's town' line he takes in iso13 is convenient for giving him an excuse if CooLskins flips scum ("well I did say his posts were scummy"), as does tying his town read to a scum read on xvart ("I did say skins is scum if xvart's town, I just didn't think xvart is town"). AntiHero and kondi don't interact with or give reads on CooLskins at all. It's plausible they're buddies looking from this direction.


Ooh, another important point I just noticed about havingfitz, separate to xvart's point about his vote hop, but based on the same post:

don scum will point to dselby IMO.

This theory comes despite the "xvart town = skins scum" line in iso12 and "xvart town = Parama or CooLskins scum" in iso15. If don's scum, that means xvart's town, yet fitz doesn't mention these previous conditional theories of his. This contradiction just shows he's trying to draw links between everyone.

Unvote, vote: havingfitz

Explain why you say don scum points to deselby scum, when you also say xvart town points to CooLskins (or Parama) scum.



Post 599 where don defends CooLskins makes me further inclined to believe don's town. It would be tempting for scum to attack CooLskins there, what with him being the alternate wagon.

* the much-discussed change of read on Zodiark
* 310 - regards don's role pm discussion (245,254) as a strong town read, then drops this point completely when he attacks him later
* 321 - trying to defend his read as 'no worse than' than Zodiark's contradiction
* 416 - listing Zodiark in his number 2 scum spot while supporting the lynch of a townie
* 518 - the 'seriously, why hasn't [fitz] been lynched yet' sounds off, gut-wise
* 557 - accusing xvart of chainsaw-defending don_johnson by attacking CooLskins
* bonus: pretty sure only one of CooLskins and don_johnson is scum based on the way they've been arguing, so it makes sense to lynch one of the two, and CooLskins looks scummier to me

1) Don keeps asking and so I keep giving. Until people understand what our actual position(s) were, then I will have to keep explaining.
2) That's bub ask him. But its all wifom bullshit (don pm having scum qt. Why hasn't he told us who had posted in there? Why wasn't the game re-randomed?).

@Don, who had posted in that there scum qt?

3) How do you know that don is town????????????????????? Or are you talking about my

#3

scum suspect?
4) Gut gut gut....
5) 557, and how has he not? Chainsaw def only works once we have a flip, so lets lynch don. No really there is no reason what so ever for don to be alive. I would self hammer myself right here and now if you guys promised to lynch don. That's no joke.
6) vote for don. If he flips town then you can lynch me. Or vise versa if you prefer.

1, you've explained it, I think everyone understands what you're saying - it's just some people believe you that the contradiction was innocuous, some don't.
2, he said (254) he didn't have the scum QT, it was that the neighbour QT was called the scum QT in his role PM.
3, not confirmed, but I have a town read on don (more so than you), and a strong read that if you're scum, don's town, which is what I was getting at here - this post fits neatly with a skins-scum, don-town scenario
4, yep, no reason for you or others to be swayed by my gut feel about that post, but no reason for me to dismiss it from my read on you - gut is valuable
5, the "I would self hammer" bit here is rhetoric and feels insincere to me.
6, vice versa sounds better to me


@CooLskins, would you support a havingfitz lynch today?

[don_johnson]

@don- fair enough, my concerns are here:

1) You said you "solidified" your read (of town parama) based on a statistical point you concede is wrong, and on his posting which you think is scummy (see post 596). How is this valid? Also, you mention in 599 that there is only an "outside chance of parama scum" despite the above points. This is a serious contradiction.

statistics are one thing. fact is, i work in the medical field. people beat the odds all the time. image pointed out that the "stats" involved in my math were not matched up with my interpretation of the data, but that doesn't change the fact that i think it would be highly unlikely that bobsnox tracked two vanilla scum in a row. bob also consistently stated his own town read on parama. parama's playstyle may be the culprit in why i find his posting "scummy", but his VCA is not entirely scummy. he has a night 1 clear. if he is scum, then he is vanilla scum. i just find it unlikely that is the case. there is a chance, but like i said before, i solidify my reads at times because if i don't then the game becomes too muddy. for instance, if i am lynched and flip town, my reads will carry more weight, no? so i think its important to do as such. i can't really argue the statistics because image is correct. but that is when you put stats in a vacuum, and that is not the case here. paramas votes are not all over the place. he seems to be targeting specific players in a coherent manner. my dislike of his posting and style is not enough to override my belief that i don't think it likely that bob targeted two vanilla scum in a row.

2) "lynching neighbours is a bad idea" (538).The first, second and last sentence in your argument obviously only apply IF you are both town, so pointless. The rest is saying "ignore the scum in the neighbourhood fallacy". Ok, but IF there is scum in the hood, we should lynch, and you seem to propose an equally fallacious "no scum in hood" position. I just really disliked this post, and can only see sum motivation for posting it - ie to make town reluctant to lynch a neighbour (very probably you at this opoint) in any circumstance. I guess I don't have a direct question for you here, other than "why am I wrong about it?". If you read your post again, do you stand by it, or do you want to add/retract anything?

i am more likely to be lynched today than xvart. i know i am town. my worry is that scum will then have an easy wagon to push in what would be lylo tomorrow. i.e. the one neighbor must be scum fallacy. seeing as how xvarts VCA is rather poor, i don't think its a good idea to lynch a neighbor today. if we lynch xvart and he flips town, then i am an easy mislynch tomorrow based on the fallacy. i have a town read on xvart, therefore i think it is a bad idea to lynch from the neighborhood today. you are not wrong about anything. my post clearly assumes two town neighbors. if one neighbor is scum, then it is xvart. if you think i or xvart are scum, then i would say that it is safer to try and lynch who you think our partners are instead. this late in the game players start to take sides. by hunting who you think we would be paired with, that gives you more options tomorrow imo. its the same premise as not lynching a claimed town power role. could the player still be scum? yes. but the safer route would be to hunt a possible partner before railroading yourself into a possible quick and easy loss.

3)In 599 you say you think coolskins is town twice, and then at the end of the post you include him in your lynch pool. A clear contradiction, can you explain this?

this one was modified. xvart is only in the pool because i can't be sure. if it comes down to "lynch don or xvart", i would most certainly lynch x.

4) See my post 609. I don't know what you mean here, re the self hammer.

it harks back to my original reason for suspecting you. both you and i posted late in the day promoting discussion. you could have unvoted(like you did today) but you didn't. by the time you had posted about the possibility of a quickhammer, the hammer had already occurred. that post looked like you'd been ninja'd by the self hammer, but the timestamps put your post and zod's an hour apart. did you see zod's self vote at the time of your post? if so, why didn't you unvote if you didn't think it was the hammer? that area of the game to me read(coupled with my white knight theory) you were bussing and were just fine with the day ending early.

imag: my only issue is that if skins is scum, he bussed zodiark rather hard. can you repost the section of your case that deals with that issue? the case on fitz is solid, but why hasn't fitz scum hammered me when he had the chance? your posting definitely moves you more town imo. i would lynch fitz over skins today. deselby's civility has me leaning town on him atm. parama and skins seem content to coast on the dj case. it would be nice to see them branch out. don't they find it odd that xvart has a town read on me? i don't know.

vote: fitz

now we have 3 competing wagons.

[Parama]

Parama – your scum hunting hasn’t had a good enough strike rate in this game for you not to bother putting forth a case on any target

And you're acting like you've done any better?
And you're going to assume I had no case even though I said I'd type one up?

Where does all this leave me?

Vote: CooLskins

Partly PoE because I don't think either neighbour is scum, and havingfitz's weakening of his slot's scum read on Zodiark doesn't fit with bussing, so I've softened on him. Looking more at CooLskins, these points look good reasons to vote him:

Um, just wondering, didn't you have me listed as your #2 scumpick? What happened to that?

* bonus: pretty sure only one of CooLskins and don_johnson is scum based on the way they've been arguing, so it makes sense to lynch one of the two, and CooLskins looks scummier to me

oh look something in thiss godforsaken thread that comes off a slightly town.

Fine...based primarily on his vote outside of his three person lynch pool I'll accept his suspicion. If he flips scum neighbor I'll apologize to confirmed town xvart be he dead or alive. don scum will point to dselby IMO. don town should focus attention on xvart.

VOTE: don_johnson

"I think you have one valid point and the rest aren't that valid but I'm not going to say why they aren't valid."
meh. kinda looks like scum who knows when their buddy is screwed so they bus for great justice and town cred. kinda.

LEMME ADD TO THAT THERE WALL OF TEXT WAR OLOLOLOLOL
IT'S GODDAMN ISO TIME. THIS POST IS DJ-ISO.

beck wagon is good. he has no sense of humor.

"Excuse me while I pay lip service to a mislynch wagon without actually bringing up any points or voting. I can just claim this post was a joke sort of thing and it's all good, but it will likely get more people voting Beck"

i was not part of the quick lynch on a town power role. my comment came well before the scumminess occurred.

BZZT, you're arguing that "no sense of a humor" is a scumtell, so you're saying you saw something scummy in him when you made your comment.

vote: celebloki

Stupid hammer was stupid.

Hmm... I remember another play who was all "lynch Celebloki his hammer was bad." Zodiark, I think his name was.
Hmm... and Celebloki flipped town... and Zodiark flipped scum... HMMM.

his hammer was bad. he hammered a claimed power role early. this also fits with why i was sympathetic to the zodiark "contradiction".

Town can claim power roles
Mafia can claim power roles
Your point?
Also what does this have to do with Zod's contradiction?

what waffle? i wasn't even around when the lynch was carried through. i never voted beck, and i never backed off on my stance that the wagon was good(cause beck was quicklynched.) my stance can hardly be described as a waffle. i demand you choose better verbage.

Oh, so you really weren't making that comment in jest. Well, I'm glad you didn't jump on a wagon that you thought was good.

see, i can do it to. silly parama, the beck wagon was good when i said it was good. later, it turned ugly. not my fault. last i heard, not mislynching townies is a town tell.

So the wagon was good, then it became bad, even though Beck's alignment didn't change during the timespan.
And again you're missing the point. You paid lip service to the wagon, which helped carry it forward to at least some degree. Don't act like you're completely innocent just because you didn't vote.

i don't recall you tieing me to beck, at all. i really wasn't paying much attention through day 1 and my support for the beck wagon was because "he had no sense of humor." in my experience, scum often lack a sense of humor when they are wagoned relentlessly. having not been paying too much attention, however, i wasn't ready to vote. regardless of scum or town, the beck wagon looked like it was going to move and movement produces content which is good for town. i didn't expect a lynch to go through so quick and i don't think any of the players who were not present can hold any of the responsibility for that. the wagon was bad.

1. "lack of a sense of humor" isn't a scumtell
2. link me some games?
3. so you knew enough to know that there was a wagon on Beck, and that he lacked a sense of humor, one of your "scumtells", yet you "weren't paying enough attention" to justify voting him? BS.

1. we disagree.
2. no. that's mildly retarded. if you want to sift through my games, feel free. i don't live in the past.
3. no bs. but i guess all i can do is say what i say. you are obviously tunneled at this point(or like, a week ago.) and yet, you're still alive even though i pointed out the blatant connection between you and bob early on. and bob lived the night after that as well. hm. if you are town, you should start using your brain.

1. thanks for the elaboration
2. thank for not even attempting to prove your own argument
3. um yes I am tunneling. tunneling on scum is how you get them lynched.

unvote

celbloks answer is adequate for now. for someone so seemingly eager to talk to me in the qt, xvart sure is taking his sweet time in responding to my response. didn't have a chance to catch up yet, but i will get to it asap.

Literally NOTHING changed between this post and DJ's last - Celebloki still didn't try to defend his hammer, which is the reason DJ called him out in the first place.

except of course his answer. which i described as "adequate for now". so yeah, other than his response, nothing else changed.

and didn't say why it was adequate.

Frankly, Celebloki's response IS pro-town

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOFLOLOLOFLOLFOLOLFOFLFOFLFOFLFLFOL!!!!

I never said I disagreed with the argument that Cele's post reeked town. I'm pointing out that you didn't even say what you felt was town about his post - you just said "herp derp it's adequate."

, but for another reason - it's not that he's doesn't want to defend his hammer, but that he's willing to admit that he can't defend it.

herp derp, hence the unvote by dj and dj saying "anser is adequate". seriously, did you edit this post before you hit submit?

herp derp, still missing the point, look up.

Scum make up the excuse because if they don't make an excuse then they think they'll be lynched for it. I'm not sure if DJ picked up on this or not, but "his post was adequate" implies that Cele met the criteria DJ was looking for, even though it's obvious that Cele intentionally refused to meet this criteria.

say what now? you just said "nothing changed". then you say "except when blok responded with a pro-town response." but "dj unvoted even though nothing changed". "except that blok laid a protown response." so lets get this straight:

dj voted.
blok responded with a protown post.
dj unvoted.

kthxbye.

dj didn't say a word about how the post was pro-town, hence the point. again. I'm a goddamn broken record.

Why? Bloks post was ok. Leaving my vote on accomplishes nothing.

And this post is basically the same thing. Why was his post OK? Because DJ knows Celebloki is town and doesn't need an excuse beyond that? Hmmph.

or because blok's post was protown, and dj pointed that out by unvoting and saying the post was "adequate".

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF YOU YOU'RE MISSING THE ENTIRE GODDAMN POINT AND I KNOW YOU'RE SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW WHAT THE POINT IS

To whose "legitimate" requests are you referring? Skins? I think I had what, 5 posts on day 1? I didnt quicklynch anyone and end the day early.

This is the goddamn nail in the coffin IMO. "Well EXCUSE MEEEE, PRINCESS, but

I

didn't vote on the quicklynch wagon, even though I

DID

pay lip service to it, calling it a good wagon, making me at least partly responsible for the lynch even if I didn't take part in it."

uh. no. not responsible AT FUCKING ALL. I was nowhere near this thread while you idiots were lynching a claimed fucking power role. so sorry. my "beck wagon is good" came before the claim. lynching a claimed town power role without a counterclaim on day one is dumb. everyone who participated in the lynch after the claim is dumb. are we clear?

YOU WEREN'T VOTING, BUT YOU ADDED FUEL TO THE FIRE. A LACK OF VOTE DOESN'T MAKE YOU INNOCENT.
BROKEN RECORDS INC. PROUDLY PRESENTS: THIS. FREAKING. POST.

when i received my pm i opened it, saw i was neighbors with xvart and then went to click on the link to the qt. as i scrolled over it, i notice it said it was a link to the scum qt. i immediately pm'd the mod to say "hey, am i scum? or if not, do you realize you sent me a link to the wrong qt.(paraphrased)" mod pm'd me back and said, "no, you are town and the qt is not a mistake, i just forgot to change the label." so i clicked on the link and day had already started. i ask if yours had the same mistake and you say no. but i'm not going to pm hunt you as i think its a bad idea, and if you are town it could end up in two mislynches. you seem to be looking at events objectively.

Eh... technically this means there's at least one difference between the two role PMs besides the rolename... but the other part says that "well why the hell would DJ bring this up if he was scum and knew xvart wouldn't have the same PM as him?"
But meh, mod WIFOM stuff and I dunno. I'm actually unsure what to make of this :/ This is turning out to be a more confusing read than I expected.

read better.

la dee do dah

unvote, vote bobsnox

This isnt fitting together at all. I could see bob/parama bussing zodiark possibly, buy xvart makes good points. Bob has not been protown.

snox is reading town today as well as xvart.

Okay, so DJ, I want a complete list of everything that made you change your mind on bobsnox. IN QUOTES-FROM-YOUR-ISO-ONLY form. Because I don't see it - D2, you say "bobsnox town" and then D3 you're "bobsnox isn't confirmed and Parama's defending him also bobsnox hasn't been playing pro-town" and it's more the "bobsnox hasn't been playing pro-town" part that irks me because you said the opposite on the previous day but "xvart said it and I know he's town so now I should change my mind too" seems like the scum train of thought DJ was having here.

i'd have to work on that. can't now. not sure what the issue is with changing a read.

just because i voted bob doesn't mean i would have lynched him

(especially since i specifically stated that i wouldn't) and my suspicion was laid out in my posts. you guys were acting like masons. that confused me. when you were both alive the next day, that made no sense to me. scum generally kill players who confirm other players and both you and bob were confirming each other. and if you recall, i believe bob helped lynch a claimed power role on day 1, so yeah, he wasn't exactly playing "pro-town". this is also pre-zodiark flip.

the bolded
but but
you DO know what the
entire point of
voting
is


right?



NO. I AM DONE. WITH. YOUR. CRAP. I REFUSE TO KEEP RESPONDING TO A BRICK WALL MADE OF SCUM-COVERED BLOCKS THAT KNOW HE'S CAUGHT AND ISN'T TRYING TO HIDE IT ANYMORE.

now we have 3 competing wagons.

which means we have a wagon on town.
3 competing wagons isn't a good thing y'know.
I had more stuff I wanted to say but honestly dj's crappost sapped all my motivation to read.

[don_johnson]

In other wordz, your going to use that giant AtE as an excuse to avoid everything else in this thread.

[deselby]

statistics are one thing. fact is, i work in the medical field. people beat the odds all the time. image pointed out that the "stats" involved in my math were not matched up with my interpretation of the data, but that doesn't change the fact that i think it would be highly unlikely that bobsnox tracked two vanilla scum in a row. bob also consistently stated his own town read on parama. parama's playstyle may be the culprit in why i find his posting "scummy", but his VCA is not entirely scummy. he has a night 1 clear. if he is scum, then he is vanilla scum. i just find it unlikely that is the case. there is a chance, but like i said before, i solidify my reads at times because if i don't then the game becomes too muddy. for instance, if i am lynched and flip town, my reads will carry more weight, no? so i think its important to do as such. i can't really argue the statistics because image is correct. but that is when you put stats in a vacuum, and that is not the case here. paramas votes are not all over the place. he seems to be targeting specific players in a coherent manner.

my dislike of his posting and style is not enough to override my belief that i don't think it likely that bob targeted two vanilla scum in a row.

Bold implies you hold the belief independent of your thoughts of parama. Thus you are "putting stats in a vacuum".
Another point about the "stats" thing, you haven't considered the likelihood of any tracker targeting the players bobs targeted. Zodiark was scummy and parama was a prominent player, so IMO it is more likely these two would be targetted by a tracker anyway.

i am more likely to be lynched today than xvart. i know i am town. my worry is that scum will then have an easy wagon to push in what would be lylo tomorrow. i.e. the one neighbor must be scum fallacy. seeing as how xvarts VCA is rather poor, i don't think its a good idea to lynch a neighbor today. if we lynch xvart and he flips town, then i am an easy mislynch tomorrow based on the fallacy. i have a town read on xvart, therefore i think it is a bad idea to lynch from the neighborhood today. you are not wrong about anything. my post clearly assumes two town neighbors. if one neighbor is scum, then it is xvart.

if you think i or xvart are scum, then i would say that it is safer to try and lynch who you think our partners are instead. this late in the game players start to take sides. by hunting who you think we would be paired with, that gives you more options tomorrow imo. its the same premise as not lynching a claimed town power role.

could the player still be scum? yes. but the safer route would be to hunt a possible partner before railroading yourself into a possible quick and easy loss.

I totally disagree with this. It is safer to lynch the player most likely to be scum. It is not the same as a claimed power role, as a PR is potentially useful to town (and testable sometimes too), whereas neighbours are neutral really. Anyway with all the talk of "scum in the hood fallacy", I can't see scum trying this tactic. The existence of the hood should have no bearing on votes one way or the other.

this one was modified. xvart is only in the pool because i can't be sure. if it comes down to "lynch don or xvart", i would most certainly lynch x.

You said we should not lynch in the hood, but xvart is in your pool.

4) See my post 609. I don't know what you mean here, re the self hammer.

My post after the self hammer was a joke. I thought it was clear, but I guess this can't be guaranteed when in text form. Reading back, do you think it was a serious post?


The reasoning is just too muddy for me. Part one is based on invalid arguments, and part 2 just seems designed to scare town into not voting for you.

vote don_johnson L-1

@fitz, can you please answer my question see 596, imag has asked too now.

[Parama]

In other wordz, your going to use that giant AtE as an excuse to avoid everything else in this thread.

hahahahahahahaha no. I will get to the worth-my-time stuff after you're lynched and flip scum.

[don_johnson]

des: you are just arguing my opinion. do you think parama is town? if so, why do you have a hard time believing that i agree?

also, your post does not read like a joke. if the timestamps were'nt so far apart it would read like you were ninja'd. you say it was a joke. ok. next time put sarcasm tags or a smilie in there and it will be more easily understood.

and no. xvart is not in the pool to be lynched. he is in the pool of "who i think may be scum"" at the time of that post. i haven't voted x and i have repeatedly stated that i would not. not sure how "including" him in that group is anything but common sense. we're neighbors, not masons.

you're not listening to anything i am saying.

Bold implies you hold the belief independent of your thoughts of parama. Thus you are "putting stats in a vacuum".
Another point about the "stats" thing, you haven't considered the likelihood of any tracker targeting the players bobs targeted. Zodiark was scummy and parama was a prominent player, so IMO it is more likely these two would be targetted by a tracker anyway.

no. my stats are not in a vacuum. but yes, if you actually look at statistics in a purely mathematical sense then my rationale does not fly. but thats just it. its my opinion. my opinion is that in this game, the likelihood of bob tracking two vanilla scum in a row is pretty improbable. if you disagree, then vote for parama.

BZZT, you're arguing that "no sense of a humor" is a scumtell, so you're saying you saw something scummy in him when you made your comment.

actually. this is

your

argument. what i said was "beck wagon is good. he has no sense of humor." looked at in context, it was a statemnt i made at a point in the game when beck was crumbling under the pressure of what seemed to be a mixture of joke votes and early pressure votes. have you never seen scum act that way? oh wait... there you are:

Beck (7) - CooLskins, xvart, Parama, kondi2424, Beck, Surye, Celebloki

so which is worse? carrying through the lynch or chiming in during a period in the game when the pressure seemed to be producing results, but not voting? i find it hard to believe that you really think

not lynching

a power role is scummy. but whatever. at the point in the game where my post was made, the post was perfectly acceptable. becks alignment didn't change, right? he was town when i called him out on his poor reactions, and he was town when you QUICK LYNCHED HIM AFTER HE CLAIMED A POWER ROLE. oh, was that all caps? sorry.

Town can claim power roles
Mafia can claim power roles
Your point?
Also what does this have to do with Zod's contradiction?

do you think blok's hammer was good? zod's contradiction mirrored my own conflicted status in regards to blok's hammer. it seemed to me that the tail end of a QUICK LYNCH ON A POWER ROLE might be a good place to start hunting scum. obviously it wasn't, but i think it makes common sense to think that way. after blok explained himself, i unvoted.

So the wagon was good, then it became bad, even though Beck's alignment didn't change during the timespan.
And again you're missing the point. You paid lip service to the wagon, which helped carry it forward to at least some degree. Don't act like you're completely innocent just because you didn't vote.

i didn't know beck's alignment. but yes, i will always be on the "quicklynching a claimed power role on day 1 is a bad idea" train. do you really think my comment helped carry the wagon? more so than , let's say, oh i don't know, YOUR FUCKING VOTE? REALLY?

1. thanks for the elaboration
2. thank for not even attempting to prove your own argument
3. um yes I am tunneling. tunneling on scum is how you get them lynched.

1. your welcome.
2. dj doesn't link. never has.
3. tunneling on town is how you get them lynched. see, i can switch words around to.

I never said I disagreed with the argument that Cele's post reeked town. I'm pointing out that you didn't even say what you felt was town about his post - you just said "herp derp it's adequate."

and i unvoted. sorry, but i don't always write novels. i thought the "unvote" would do some of the explaining.

dj didn't say a word about how the post was pro-town, hence the point. again. I'm a goddamn broken record.

so what did you think i meant when i said "post is adequate", followed by an unvote? serious question.

YOU WEREN'T VOTING, BUT YOU ADDED FUEL TO THE FIRE. A LACK OF VOTE DOESN'T MAKE YOU INNOCENT.
BROKEN RECORDS INC. PROUDLY PRESENTS: THIS. FREAKING. POST.

AND YOU WERE VOTING. LYNCHING A CLAIMED TOWN POWER ROLE. ONE THAT COULD HAVE BEEN SEMI-CONFIRMABLE. W.T.F. see, i can do caps and periods and stuff to.

la dee do dah

dum diddly doo dah

the bolded
but but
you DO know what the
entire point of
voting
is


right?

voting is the only weapon of the vanilla town. it is used for many reasons. pressure, reactions, to leave a trail of evidence that can later be analyzed in the event of your flip, etc. did my vote stay on bob? for how long? did i later advocate his lynch or was i against it? see, these other questions are pertinent.

which means we have a wagon on town.
3 competing wagons isn't a good thing y'know.

competing wagons are good as they often polarize the player base into more solid groupings. for instance, at this point, people can probably safely assume that if a is scum, then they can only be scum with b or c, but not with d, etc. and yes. we have a wagon on town. i guarantee you that.

[xvart]

@xvart, top 3 scums, as well as Havingfitz.

What kind of question is this? How many scum do you think are in this game? And isn't it obvious who my top three scum reads are? CooLskins, havingfitz, and maybe Parama. My read on Parama is highly associated with scum read on CooLskins, so isn't really an independent read.

The main difficulty is it would mean he's bussing both his buddies when he calls Zodiark and havingfitz scumbuddies in iso48. But then, he still pushes harder for a don lynch today, so it's possible they're buddies looking from this direction.

Yes, but I'll say again that I think they were forced into bussing Zodiark hard by virtue of their contradiction.

1, you've explained it, I think everyone understands what you're saying - it's just some people believe you that the contradiction was innocuous, some don't.

Yes, this is a good way to state it. The timing and development of the contradiction is such that there is a high likelihood that it is scum motivated. It wasn't some side comment and contradiction independent of a main bandwagon or growing bandwagon. It is a focal point of someone who flipped scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: havingfitz L-1

[Parama]

so we have 3v3 fitz and dj
with fitz as the swing vote.
this may actually be a good thing.
actually no.

unvote

I really should read to see why people are jumping on fitz all of the sudden, so this is to prevent hammers that won't happen anyways but whatever.

[deselby]

des: you are just arguing my opinion. do you think parama is town? if so, why do you have a hard time believing that i agree?

Bold implies you hold the belief independent of your thoughts of parama. Thus you are "putting stats in a vacuum".
Another point about the "stats" thing, you haven't considered the likelihood of any tracker targeting the players bobs targeted. Zodiark was scummy and parama was a prominent player, so IMO it is more likely these two would be targetted by a tracker anyway.

no. my stats are not in a vacuum. but yes, if you actually look at statistics in a purely mathematical sense then my rationale does not fly. but thats just it. its my opinion. my opinion is that in this game, the likelihood of bob tracking two vanilla scum in a row is pretty improbable. if you disagree, then vote for parama.

What I think of parama, or the likelihood of bob trackong 2 scum*, is not relevant here. The fact is YOUR reasoning makes no sense, yet you are sticking to it. Maybe you thought parama was going to be too hard to lynch, so you looked elsewhere. Anyway, this, and your "leave the hood alone or be doomed" argument are why I think you are scum.

*I don't really have a town read on parama, but nor do I think is close to don and fitz in scumminess.
I don't think bobs tracking 2 scum is particularly unlikely at this point, as zod flipped scum, so that only means he needed to track scum 1/1 times.

also, your post does not read like a joke. if the timestamps were'nt so far apart it would read like you were ninja'd. you say it was a joke. ok. next time put sarcasm tags or a smilie in there and it will be more easily understood.

Ok, but I would like to know if anyone else doubted, or doubts, my post was a joke. If so I will do this from now on, but I would like to think I didn't have to.

[deselby]

@xvart, what was your reasoning for your change of vote? Not that i think it is a bad vote, but in your vote post you only spoke of why coolskins was scummy.

[CooLskins]

@CooLskins, would you support a havingfitz lynch today?

Yes I would. Both bub and I agree that he is the 3rd scum. Bub actually has him over don on his scum list. I will let bub write up the case on fitz because he seems very adamant about it. We both agree that both don and fitz are scum, so ether one can eat rope today.


Hmmm... fitz is at l-1. I called bub to ask him if he thinks we should hammer. He said he is 95% sure that don is scum. I'm hovering around 85-90.

unvote... vote: havingfitz

)yes, if he flips town we are screwed, we get that.)

Sorry parama, but we will have to lynch don tomorrow. Also I did not read the two newest walls. So I can't comment on them. I'll read them along with a don iso during the night phase.
~CooLDoG

[CooLskins]

PS.

=========================[]

I always wanted to do that.

[havingfitz]

OK...so I'm in the middle of putting my WTF I'm at L-1 post together and Coolskins hammers me. Thats twice you've killed me with crap/no reasons CoolDog. If you are not scum in this game you are a fucking idiot. I was leaning that way anyway based on our last game but this confirms it.

Also, I'd ask town to lynch xvart but you all have your heads up your ass as bad as I did.

[havingfitz]

And in review for xvart....on mislynch wagon, on mislynch wagon, off scum wagon, on mislynch wagon. Actions speak louder than words.

[CooLDoG]

^are you claiming town? Because you sure played one shit game if you were town. I do think that Bib did have a case on you. So it isn't for no reason.

[havingfitz]

Why didn't you ask about what I might claim prior to hammering me? It's a tad late now. My previous comments on your play stand.

[CooLDoG]

^because it would be irrelevant.

[Parama]

goddammit
it's CooL/des isn't it
isn't it
just kill me tonight or something scum I don't want to deal with this crap
hell
damn
sigh

[Humble Poirot]

Those in danger of being exposed #23:

don_johnson (1)

- deselby,

havingfitz (4) - imaginality, don_johnson, xvart, CooLskins,

Not Voting (2)

- havingfitz, Parama,

With 7 Alive it took 4 to lynch.

What's there to say besides I told you so? At this point in time I've seen what vicious, selfish and vindictive these hacker types can be.

I once thought they might be able to bring hope to humanity. To stand up to arms against complex odds because they possessed unique minds.

Now I'm not so sure. I don't know if I have much hope left.

havingfitz, vanilla townie, was exposed day 4

Code: Select all

"Nothing is more terrible than activity without insight."

Night 4 has begun. It will end on Saturday 6 at 14:00 (GMT-3). Send your actions before then. It may take a while longer for the thread to be opened but actions sent after the deadline will not be considered.

[Humble Poirot]

You've spent so much time building reputations.

Closing bridges.

That now, you have nowhere to run away to.

You've been torn apart, little by little. No mercy. No distractions. The
power machine doesn't sleep. Doesn't forgive.

The keyboard is mightier than the bullet, but only when it's not heading
towards you.

imaginality, Vanilla Townie, was killed night 4.

And now the question? Who's next? Does it matter, really?
Aren't we all doomed anyway?

Code: Select all

It is no use to blame the looking glass if your face is awry.

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch

[Parama]

YOU ARE ALL WHORES
FOR CRYING OUT LOUD

MAN I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT TO THINK ANYMORE.
dj could be scum but the only logical partner is deselby, and even that seems unlikely.
CooLskins/deselby is the only other scumteam that makes much sense to me. The problem is that while I feel dj or CooLskins are both more likely to be scum, deselby being in both teams makes him a better lynch. There's a small outlying chance that xvart is scum, but out of the remaining players he's probably towniest on my list. And it's not like deselby couldn't be scum with him either.
I almost want to say dj is likely to be town simply because there's very little chance he could be scum with any living player. Even though his actions are independently the most scummy out of any living player... it just doesn't work out. He's not scum with CooLskins because there's no way in hell two separate scum wagons were being pushed yesterday. He's not scum with xvart because scum don't claim neighbors with each other, they claim masons. And he's probably not scum with deselby due to how deselby put him at L-1 multiple times yesterday - seems a bit more than bussing. Then again, if desel is scum, he did basically the same thing to Zod so. I'm not ruling out the last combination, but it still seems unlikely.
I actually don't know the case on CooLskins too well, which means I really REALLY need to ISO him today. I may read through imag's ISO as well, though the issue is that all that NK-WIFOM stuff can be brought into play v_v

Seriously now. This game is the trainwreck that never should've been <.<

I'm actually going to be pretty busy today, so I won't have much time to read up until tomorrow. Don't quicklynch while I'm gone please.

[Parama]

You have got to be kidding me. NOTHING? REALLY GUYS?
*sigh*

[deselby]

hectic w/end, back tomoerrow