Mini 1211: Murder in Sicily [Over]

[Bub Bidderskins]

Vote count 1.3

(3) Whiskers: Friend, Substrike22, LTP Mafia [L-4]

(2) bobsnox: iamausername, Scumhunter [L-5]

(1) MusicNinja: Whiskers [L-6]

(1) monk: Noramp [L-6]

(7) Not Voting: Panacea, crappy, bobsnox, MusicNinja, Tovarish, monk

With

13

alive it will take

7

to lynch

[Whiskers]

Also, I could support a bob lynch today, but not yet. We need more evidence. Always good to start the game off with a scum lynch.

Which is why I'm voting you. UGH! I'll make a case later... 9___9

[MusicNinja]

Also, I could support a bob lynch today, but not yet. We need more evidence. Always good to start the game off with a scum lynch.

Which is why I'm voting you. UGH! I'll make a case later... 9___9

???? Because I want evidence for a lynch?

[Whiskers]

No, because I want to lynch scum.

[Scumhunter]

MusicNinja, why do you think me switching my vote is scummy? I'm allowed to change my mind after all. Plus its not like my votes are completely out of left field here.....you, bob, and Friend comprise my "big 3" of potential scummzors so its not like my votes should be too odd I wouldn't think.

There isn't necessarily going to be evidence on day 1. All we can really do is make the best of what we are given and use all the logic and intuition we can muster to do our best at getting scum. Right now, I think our best bet is Bob. Evidence to point to:

1)Inactivity in this game, while activity elsewhere on the site
2)his reads list is superficial, doesn't really say much tbh

I think iamausername's post on Whiskers has good points, particularly how Whiskers reaction to the day-vig joke did not seem like it would come from scum pov whatsoever really.
Whiskers is probably town. Needs less Whiskers votes.

[Noramp]

Scumhunter may I ask why you feel monk is leaning town?

[Scumhunter]

lol no ramp. its funny, i was just going through his iso and rereading monk as you posted that. i know there was something in specific ill have to look back give me a few mins here

[Scumhunter]

I generally list my town reads in strongest to weakest so its not like I have Monk as super obv town here or anything. Generally, I think voting lots of different people is actually pretty pro-town. There is nothing wrong with exploring different wagons and putting pressure on people. A vote is a tool that can be used to elicit reactions from the player being wagoned as well as people who may or may not choose to join. Plus, various competing wagons gives us a wealth of information later in the game about the way players react to being voted, the way players on and off the wagon react to certain wagons, and who chooses to vote who and why. The more "voting" and reactions we can gather the more likely we are to be able to use our lynches effectively in my opinion.

Monk hasn't posted all that much as of yet, but nothing about his play strikes me as scummy as of yet. Other than his multiple votes, is there something you take issue with with him? I like that he unvoted Whiskers. I like that he is in reality fairly cautious with his vote. He's voted different people but its not like his votes are really with the intent to lynch right now if you know what I mean?

[Noramp]

@Scumhunter Are you saying you think his votes have been solely to gauge reactions? Do you think that is necessary when his vote was placed on the largest wagon and Whiskers had already reacted quite a bit?

And this is my beef with monk his vote of Whiskers rubbed me the wrong way. His reason was beyond weak and like I said felt opportunity driven. scum points in my book. He's done next to no scum hunting himself and then goes ahead and votes Whiskers for it. scum points. It's still early and with little activity it is hard to get a real good read on anyone but I think monk stays at the top of my list for now with bob in second.

[Scumhunter]

Well I know he said something along the lines of "Whiskers is squirming the right way to make me think he is town". That implies the vote was an attempt to gauge a reaction. Granted, some people are fail at reaction testing people. I have seen town players vote someone all the way up to L-1 for bad reasons just as a "reaction test". I don't particularly think its smart as there are other ways to pressure, but to each his own. Regardless, perhaps I should let him answer about his intentions himself, eh?

long story short: I can see how you could think monk's vote could be opportunistic and scum-motivated, but I don't think there is enough content from him to make a real value judgment. At the moment, his play is mostly a null-tell but my gut has him leaning town slightly. Monk does need to post more though. That would help.

[bobsnox]

Speaking of artificial, take a closer look at bob's reads. In an obvious display of attempting to placate his attackers in the hopes of persuading them away, he calls me town for "putting genuine effort into this game". If all you had to do to find scum was lynch the people not putting in effort, I think town winrates would be a lot higher than they are. But, more to the point, if bob thinks putting effort in is a town tell, how does he end up with Whiskers as one of his only two scumpicks?

I have a policy against lynching people who try hard early on. If they're scum they will catch themselves up. Scum can't lead the game and avoid being caught.

Whiskers's efforts, however, don't seem to have the right motivation behind them. You'll notice I'm not voting her (yet) because I do generally follow the policy above. But she's very tempting.

He also says Panacea is null because "her reluctance to vote is odd" and yet makes no vote himself. He dislikes Tovarish unvoting Whiskers because the wagon is building too quick, but then MusicNinja being reluctant to vote because the wagon is building too quick makes him town because he "tries to consider all angles with regards to Whiskers."

Panacea seemed to have strong reads but refrained from voting. My case is not the same as hers.

Tovarish/MusicNinja stuff is taken out of context to be sure.

I was about to vote bob. I'm not super conf. he's scum, let the feeling I get ferment for a few hours, then I'll vote him.

someone please explain to me how this isn't akin to claiming scum

"I'll vote him later when I feel more like it."

VOTE: Whiskers

[Panacea]

Sorry I've been so scarce; work has me uncharacteristically occupied. Should be back tomorrow to catch up and repay everyone for my absence.

[Scumhunter]

bob, what Whiskers said was that they wanted to think about their vote for a few hours before they made it but that they were likely going to be voting for you. How is that akin to claiming scum? Wutttt?!?!?!?

[Friend]

Mm. Scumhunter's town.

VOTE BOBSNOX

Bob, however, is not. And I'm beginning to get a little less suspicious of Whiskers - his overreaction to the pregame daykill may have been more in his personality and less in his scumminess.

[Whiskers]

Vote: Bobsnox

.
I'll even call it Omgus.

[Tovarish]

As in-averse as I am to letting votes ferment, I'm still looking at Whiskers as my primary suspect, with bob not following that far behind. The OMGUS isn't helping you there, bro. Nor was it convincing when you went after Musicninja. You promise us a case on him, and then hurry along to both jump on a rapidly growing wagon with bobsnox.

Not buying it.

vote- Whiskers

[Tovarish]

EDIT: Against bobsnox

[Whiskers]

Excellent point! ISO forthwithcoming:

0: Replace conf. Says he'll get right to scum hunting
1: Finds me instead. "Doesn't like the wagon forming" on me.
2: Bullshit that doesn't make sense. Ask for individuals, as iamusername (wasn't it?) said, all of these are not true.
3: What IS your "plan to beat the scum"?
I voted (mainly) because I don't like you. But I am making a case.
4: "I also boblynch, but we must evidence!" So, you follow the crowd-- that's the bit I'm picking up here. Is :It's good to lynch scum the first day" an Appeal to Emotion? or just regular filler?
5: Wants evidence for a lynch... is that why he hasn't put his vote on me?

I'm seeing no votes, I'm seeing soft-core wagon support. I'm seeing coming in under the radar and agreeing fervently with the other players. It's not enough to lynch you for, but it's enough to not like you for.
What is this whole thing about Not Voting, anyway? Do you think I'm scummy? No, let me rephrase that: Do you think I'm Mafia? Then vote me. Your combined ["I want to lynch scum the first day!" "We need more evidence!" and Not Voting] look a lot like the guy who took his vote off of me because I made a Vanilla Townie claim. He said, "I will not mislynch!" Um, right.

If you think I'm scummy,

vote for me

. No, sorry, I take that back: If you think I'm MAFIA, vote for me. It's the only way to win.
I'm pretty sure you guys have enough people who want me dead, to make me dead.

[bobsnox]

Wow OMGUS at this stage? Do you want to die tomorrow?

[Whiskers]

I don't really care. Actually, I'd prefer to die at night.

[bobsnox]

because you'll explode and kill your attacker or what?

[Whiskers]

I wish. No, I am not a bomb. Are you a bomb, bobsnox?

[Scumhunter]

Vote: Bobsnox

.
I'll even call it Omgus.

Tovarish, would a scum so blatantly say that they were OMGusing like this? I think you seem to prefer a logic-based game style here. That is good and I realize that a lot of Whisker's actions could fall into the cookie-cutter mold of scum tells.

However

, I find it hard to believe that Whiskers would be so blatant as to say "I'm omgusing here" as scum. "I know I promised a case but I'm going to draw even more attention to myself by voting and calling it OMGUS!!" The motivation for anyone to do that reads much

much

more as defiant/lazy town than as scum.

I also can see how Whisker's votes seem to be for anyone but himself. Not great town play I'll admit but survival instinct is not solely a characteristic of scum necessarily. Townies don't want to be lynched either and I can think of some reasons a town-sided player might act that way.

[iamausername]

Also, I could support a bob lynch today, but not yet. We need more evidence. Always good to start the game off with a scum lynch.

Hey bobsnox, what do you think of this post?

[Friend]

MusicNinja, if you're saying you want evidence for a lynch, then why in the hell are you not questioning bobsnox? Why isn't your vote even on anyone, for chrissakes?