TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[Junpei]

ThAdmiral I have mentioned things that andrew and ZeL1nK have done day 1 and day 2 has just started. I've done nothing so far but try to explain my track on vezok so saying that I'm not exploring other options is idiocy as there has been no time.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p3293309

Andrew respond to this post as they are all important points of you saying things that make no sense.

[killerjester]

VoTe sIlvEr

It'S tHe obVioUs lyNch foR toDaY.

WhO Not TO LynCh

RainbOwdash/sLatE/CrOpPy
MoI

Can you...not do that?

Anyway

...

VOTE: Nero
Same as yesterday.

I don't like this post. Yes the case on him exists, and it's very merit-able. But I'd consider voting him for this bit alone. Considering how suspicious everyone finds him, I feel he's harboring his vote by placing it on Nero. With the classic, "Just following my D1 play!" as his sole excuse.

[Junpei]

I don't like this post. Yes the case on him exists, and it's very merit-able. But I'd consider voting him for this bit alone. Considering how suspicious everyone finds him, I feel he's harboring his vote by placing it on Nero. With the classic, "Just following my D1 play!" as his sole excuse.

Why do you single out Silver?

ThAdmiral doing it
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p3306413

Hiplop doing it
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p3306566

Rodion doing it
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p3306594

Leonshade picking up on his list from yesterday
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p3306984

Pappums post has nothing to do with Chevre, but votes her from voting her day 1
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p3307108

drmyshotty doing it
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p3309514

The only people with reasoning behind votes (well, new reasoning presented today) is Rainbowdash and Castle Bravo.

[drmyshottyizsik]

I didn't vote silver because I thought that Z1 was scum.

[Leonshade]

I didn't vote silver because I thought that Z1 was scum.

What is this post in response to? I don't recall anyone asking why you didn't vote for Silver D1.

[drmyshottyizsik]

I didn't vote silver because I thought that Z1 was scum.

What is this post in response to? I don't recall anyone asking why you didn't vote for Silver D1.

I don't recall having to wait for you to prompt me to say things.

[Leonshade]

@DavidXanatos:

Why did you defend Junpei before he had a chance to defend himself? He's nowhere near a lynch and he is a capable player, so I see no reason for you to jump to his defense.

@shotty:

You don't have to wait for anyone to ask before you say things, I just wondered why you said that.

[killerjester]

Why do you single out Silver?

ThAdmiral doing it
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p3306413

Hiplop doing it
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p3306566

Rodion doing it
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p3306594

Leonshade picking up on his list from yesterday
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p3306984

Pappums post has nothing to do with Chevre, but votes her from voting her day 1
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p3307108

drmyshotty doing it
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p3309514

The only people with reasoning behind votes (well, new reasoning presented today) is Rainbowdash and Castle Bravo.

I felt, following his play all game, his was the most condemning. Why are you discrediting silver's wagon so hard?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Can I get some more Pappums votes please?

--

Awaiting MoI's neighbor dilemma

.

Also, I'm waiting on this whole neiborizing thing MoI has going on.

@magna: Looking forward to your line of thought.

Well at least I got three people to actually post that they were waiting. Good for further information.

I’ve been mulling over the Day 1 and Night 1 play of the Neighbors. I’ve come to the conclusion that one is much more likely to be scum than the other.

What I wanted to confirm with the Mod is if that Neighborizor actually recruited last night. Had they not recruited I would have outed them immediately.

As it turns out they do appear to have recruited. The recruit is someone I have a Null read on but the reasoning for said recruitment was very, very bad.

Here’s a run-down of my thoughts on why they are more likely to be scum.

1. Dayplay in thread has been very substandard and lurky.
2. QT reasoning that I found suspect –

A. They said they considered skipping Day recruiting at first.
B. Low overall QT precence and no-scum hunting therein. His early interactions with me are asking general gameplay questions like “Why is Hydra Dissonance scummy”.
C. After some time asks point blank whether I think he is more Town than the other Neighborizor.
D. Suggests in QT that he might not Night Recruit (which I find a huge scumdar Ding) to ‘preserve the Integrity’ of the QT.
E. The second recruit to the Neighborhood was a scum-read of the Neighborizor. After he talked about ‘keepeing the integrity’.

So I’ve made the call and am going to say –

At this juncture I feel

Andrew

is much more likely of the two Neigbhorizors to be scum.

--

10/10 A+ lynch, would do it again in a second.

Of course you would, scum love mislynching Town Power Roles Day 1.

Other good lynches: chkballin, Izak and maybe oversoul and chevre

You aren’t listing Pappums or hipaddict here. Not sure why not. Oh, are they your scum partners?

--

This irks me. If i'm scum the way you word this seems to be the people on my wagon saw that Zinger was the more probable lynch and hopped back on instead of bussing me. Yet if I'm town, then the people who swung don't reveal anything? Why's that the case?

You know what irks me? Your scummy play. But I digresss.

If you are scum then those people who swung the wagon (they don't have to be ON your wagon, BTW) strongly back towards Town Zinger after yours became VERY viable are much more likely to be partners. That’s a pretty obvious conclusion.

If you are Town then scum don’t really have a reason to swing the wagon between two Townies (other than the slight motivation to get the claimed PR lynched over the claimed VT which holds risks). Are there scum there? Possibly. But the chances of concentrated scum in that segment that swung the vote from 9-8 for you to die over to Zinger is much less likely, IMO.

If I can’t get some momentum on Pappums I’ll be voting you. Just a heads up for you. I HATE when Vanilla Town claims get off the hook in leiu of Town PRs.

[Junpei]

Killerjester your post strikes me as the following:

I proved your point wrong
You then said that for some unclaimed reason, Silver's action was scummier than the rest or that since silver had pressure his was the only one worth talking about.
This means that you NOTICED that others were doing this and still decided to only post silver's
This shows that you were intentionally making silver look worse than he is
This shows conflict of interest (not trying to lynch scum just trying to lynch silver who may or may not be scum)
Then spins post to say that I am discrediting the wagon.

I am not discrediting the wagon I am discrediting what you said. Not all those posts were on the same person.

[Banshee]

@Junpei:

I have a few questions.

Then I thought "who would scum think I'd track?". Well, I expressed distaste at one point or another of Meran, Andrew, ZeL1nK, and a few others less so throughout the day(not including Zinger). So I wanted to steer clear of scum correctly guessing my target and somehow screwing with me whether it be from intentionally not using their action to redirecting it.

Were you suspicious of Vezok prior to your reread? Did you do a reread on most or all of the players in the game in isolation?

Did you think Vezok was the most likely to be scum?

Do you have any special reason to think that the power to redirect is in the game?

Why did you need to include Zinger in the comment in the way you did? Obviously no one expected you to track Zinger. Why mention him specifically in that way?

@MoI:

I'm doing a reread on Silver and I'll do one on Pappums while I'm at it, but for now I still really think he's town.

[Junpei]

Banshee I was a little suspicious of Vezok prior to my reread, however not as much as a few others (and I expressed this), so if scum was likely to redirect or something it probably wouldn't have been on Vezok. I did not read everyone, I told you I had little time. I looked over my list of players, quickly made the notes I made earlier, and skimmed my old thoughts on the players. But really it came down to me reading VEzok ISO and going "damn, this could be it". It was rushed and... had a little bit of gut...(I hate gut so I'm embarrassed to say this as it contradicts my belief in logic but alas I had no time).

No I don't think Vezok is most likely to be scum. Hydras are fucking me though as Silver and ThreeIsFrench(now hipaddict) and ZeL1nK are the three top people I find scummy, so Vezok didn't top the list by any means.

No no reason to suspect redirect other than I'm preparing for all possibilities.

Well I mentioned him off to the side as to show that I did suspect him during the day (Which is what the list was of) but that he wasn't someone who was a track option. Besides, you know that if I hadn't included Zinger it would have been "junpei you're distancing yourself from the previous mislynch by not including zinger on people who you suspected day 1".

[PeregrineV]

He is right. I went nowhere.

But I don't understand why you tracked me?

@people who are confused at the fact that I chose Vezok, I'm fine with answering any questions regarding it.

I have only 1 question. Have you played with vezok before?

No sir, I had no meta behind my reasoning for choosing Vezok anyway.

@Thad & Jun-
Even the target is confused as to why he was chosen, which shows why their is general confusion.

However, the Meransiel Q&A clears up a lot more. I would have thought a tracking of the vig claim would be more logical, but it was your choice in the end.

[Junpei]

The target being confused means nothing, the target isn't me and the target has made no direct inquiries more specific then "why me?" which I have already answered. Tracking the vig claim is ludicrous, if he is mafia then he just claims he shot the guy with a vigil shot.

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine has never taken a very strong stance this game, and avoided the entire debate yesterday, despite apparent belief that both of the top wagons were on town. I cannot see town aligned pony making that move.

So, you can't see why a town-aligned pony would not vote either of the top 2 vote-getters when that pony believed them both to be town?

[killerjester]

Killerjester your post strikes me as the following:

I proved your point wrong
You then said that for some unclaimed reason, Silver's action was scummier than the rest or that since silver had pressure his was the only one worth talking about.
This means that you NOTICED that others were doing this and still decided to only post silver's
This shows that you were intentionally making silver look worse than he is
This shows conflict of interest (not trying to lynch scum just trying to lynch silver who may or may not be scum)
Then spins post to say that I am discrediting the wagon.

I am not discrediting the wagon I am discrediting what you said. Not all those posts were on the same person.

Do you not see why silver is scummier than the rest of the people who's strategy he sheeped?

[Banshee]

@silver

I'm still in the midst of an ISO reread, but I have a quick question for you. Can you give me a list of your top three scum reads, in no particular order?

Thanks.

Also, where is ZeL1nK? He hasn't posted today, has he?

[jasonT1981]

Day 2 Vote Count 1

Silver 4 - Nero, Hipaddict, Leon, Shotty
Pappums 1 - MOI
Andrew 1 - THAdmiral
Mera 1 - Rodion
Cherve 1 - Pappums
Peregrine 1 - Rainbowdash
Nero 1 - Silver
Rodion 1 - Castle

With 25 alive, it takes 13 to lynch

[Junpei]

Killerjester your post strikes me as the following:

I proved your point wrong
You then said that for some unclaimed reason, Silver's action was scummier than the rest or that since silver had pressure his was the only one worth talking about.
This means that you NOTICED that others were doing this and still decided to only post silver's
This shows that you were intentionally making silver look worse than he is
This shows conflict of interest (not trying to lynch scum just trying to lynch silver who may or may not be scum)
Then spins post to say that I am discrediting the wagon.

I am not discrediting the wagon I am discrediting what you said. Not all those posts were on the same person.

Do you not see why silver is scummier than the rest of the people who's strategy he sheeped?

reiterate please I don't understand this post

[izakthegoomba]

@MoI well, now that you've outed him, I can totally see what you mean. I am still leaning towards silver more, but is there anything in particular that makes Andrew very scummy?

[Rodion]

@MoI well, now that you've outed him, I can totally see what you mean. I am still leaning towards silver more, but is there anything in particular that makes Andrew very scummy?

I'd say MoI's "2 E" is almost a smoking gun. Shows blatant contradiction by Andrew.

@ Meransield and Banshee - I'll get to that tonight or tomorrow

[Rainbowdash]

10/10 A+ lynch, would do it again in a second.

Of course you would, scum love mislynching Town Power Roles Day 1.

I am quite a bit of a pureist in this game. If somepony always screws around when you are playing in groups, you either stop playing with them, or just lynch them. Unlike life we apparently can't stop playing with someone, so we lynch them. Only way I was not letting that happen was a mason claim.

Other good lynches: chkballin, Izak and maybe oversoul and chevre

You aren’t listing Pappums or hipaddict here. Not sure why not. Oh, are they your scum partners?

hip I could see as scum, but he isn't in the "needs death" pool but the acceptable lynch one. Pappums and yourself need to stop getting into this what almost seems like game leader competition over where both of you have taken differnt opinions of rival loud player to be scum tells. Im pretty sure its town v town, and it needs to come to an end at this point.

If you are Town then scum don’t really have a reason to swing the wagon between two Townies (other than the slight motivation to get the claimed PR lynched over the claimed VT which holds risks). Are there scum there? Possibly. But the chances of concentrated scum in that segment that swung the vote from 9-8 for you to die over to Zinger is much less likely, IMO.

Where did silver claim VT? I don't think he ever did that.

[killerjester]

Where did silver claim VT? I don't think he ever did that.

He might as well have. His martyr gambit on D1 was something I can only see a VT or anti-town doing. I sincerely doubt a town PR would have said, "Lynch me over Zinger!"

[MagnaofIllusion]

I am quite a bit of a pureist in this game. If somepony always screws around when you are playing in groups, you either stop playing with them, or just lynch them. Unlike life we apparently can't stop playing with someone, so we lynch them. Only way I was not letting that happen was a mason claim.

Well I’m of the opinion that someone who blatantly pushes a claimed Town power role lynch over a claimed VT Day 1 on what I find to be stupid ‘purity’ reasons is scum.

So we see eye to eye.

hip I could see as scum, but he isn't in the "needs death" pool but the acceptable lynch one. Pappums and yourself need to stop getting into this what almost seems like game leader competition over where both of you have taken differnt opinions of rival loud player to be scum tells. Im pretty sure its town v town, and it needs to come to an end at this point.

Oh, so you look at Pappums ISO and see scum-hunting and Town play?

Thanks for dropping the TvT tell for me though.

Where did silver claim VT? I don't think he ever did that.

Then return to Equestria and take a correspondence course in reading / critical thinking.

Silver’s “It’s better to kill me than Zinger” statement is a clear VT claim. And was completely correct.

[Rainbowdash]

Where did silver claim VT? I don't think he ever did that.

He might as well have. His martyr gambit on D1 was something I can only see a VT or anti-town doing. I sincerely doubt a town PR would have said, "Lynch me over Zinger!"

You and MoI both seriously.

Of course it was obvious that he essentially claimed VT early on, which is that town tell I was harping on all yesterday. The thing is silver doesn't give me the air of someone who is very attentive to their past posts, and if scum someone who very easily could have decided to claim some power on a whim, and get instant caught. Thats why him being off the Zinger wagon was a massive towntell, and if ever combined with an eventual VT claim which after the early posts today we are getting regardless of his alignment, would make him one of my top town reads. Would the trap have worked if he is scum? No clue, but I wanted it there just incase, which leaves me a little peeved that ponies have gone and wrecked it.

He still is very likely town though since you would have to be arguing that as scum he decided to go heads up against a JK claim and then take a stance that makes voting said JK essentially a death sentance. It reads as far too risky of a scum play to me.

Also yes, I read pappums as town. Asking "really?" doesn't change it.

Peregrine has never taken a very strong stance this game, and avoided the entire debate yesterday, despite apparent belief that both of the top wagons were on town. I cannot see town aligned pony making that move.

So, you can't see why a town-aligned pony would not vote either of the top 2 vote-getters when that pony believed them both to be town?

Not when you take all factors into account. First it was a JK claim from the leading wagon, which you seemed to think was more likely town of the few, and you didn't take the counterwagon. Second is that you did NOTHING to stop either of the wagons, but just sat back and put your vote on somepony one else taking the whole Fluttershy stance to the disagreement. You know what town normally does when they see two town reads fighting? The STOP THE FIGHT by trying to prove why both people are town to everypony else, or at least prove why their pick is more likely scum. You did neither, but just sat back the entire time.

Were you like MoI and KJ in thinking that the posts from silver were VT softclaims?