Glad PZ flipped scum. Means my reads aren't totally off. BBMolla is the lynch for tomorrow, in my mind. He makes a ton of sense as PZ's partner. The way Copper stayed off the PZ wagon Day because my presence on it was giving him "cold feet" was very strange, but it makes real sense if they're scumbuddies (the PZ wagon was getting really close to overtaking the Amrun wagon). The way PZ continuously hovered around the 3rd/4th spot on his scumlist is also compatible with a scumbuddy theory.
Otherwise agree with Quilford that Fenchurch declaring me town for being on a few PZ wagons is odd. I totally bus as scum. But I think that BBMolla/Copper is a safer lynch.
And I agree that zMuffin is probably the lynch for today. I want to give him a chance to air his thoughts, though. I'm keen to get his response to the PZ-flip.
I would encourage everyone to read the following Copper-posts on PZ. You can even ignore my evaluations below. Tell me this doesn't scream scumbuddy to you.
Copper wrote:I'm not opposed to the Rory wagon, but the timing is leaving me skeptical. I mean, we have forest_air, Papa Zito, Rory, and NobodySpecial who have all had a recent (or sometimes longstanding) lack of engagement. It's very likely there's at least one scum in that list, but placing Rory over the others seems a little arbitrary. While, as Fenchurch points out, he's been following some silly line of thought, the jury is still out whether it's a scum PM or simply face-saving ego that's to blame.
Copper wrote:VitaminR is scum. TwistedSpoon and Fenchurch are town. While Rory's posting style makes him look scummy, we're not comfortable calling him scum. There's a good chance of at least one scum within the flaked slots of Zito, malspecp, and CES. And it's almost certainly not CES on a VitaminR scumflip; it'd be a very audacious scum gambit to try to get a Copper lynch after we were shown to be so unambiguously right. Muffin and Amrun are weaker town reads. Our guts have Hoopla as town as well, but Day Two will be the real test for that.
Twice listing him in a list of "probably one scum here." Nothing really incriminatory, but compatible with scumbuddy theory.
Copper wrote:Three things we made note of that deserve discussion:
1) malpascp is thus far the opposite of NS. Whereas NS exercised his vote with impunity, malpascp seems content with telling us how he feels about this game rather than showing us with his vote. We can understand wanting a full re-read, but at some point you just need to vote. Preferably in your next post.
2) Reading over Rory in isolation reveals something peculiar. We don't see much mention of Amrun anywhere. This seems extremely odd given that Amrun has arguably been the most controversial player in the game so far. He answers a couple of forgettable questions here and here, but these are almost entirely about Hoopla, not Amrun. The only other things I can see him addressing or discussing Amrun consist of negligible little fluffy things that never amount to much. Examples of this are here and here. We want to put this out there for input, because, prior to reading Rory in isolation, we were surprised at how much he has managed to avoid the now two-time highest vote-getter in this game.
3) PZ is still seemingly invisible here. He's been giving everyone a hard time over how he shouldn't be called a lurker, but there's just something
not there
about his posts. Let us be more specific:
Notice the amount of uncertainty, the needing to reread over, the headscratching, and the just general confusion. To be fair, these quotes are put together in such a way to paint a specific picture, but that doesn't change the fact that PZ has gone from him having a significant presence in the game to seemingly kicking his feet up and letting the game happen to him.
Same list thing. Note also how wishy-washy Copper is about PZ. One other thing that strikes me about this is that the general uncertainty in his posts is something a scumbuddy is much more likely to notice than a townie.
But let's get to the good stuff.
Copper wrote:We are not satisfied with an Amrun lynch today. Given the amount of legwork we've put into showing flaws in Vitamin, malpascp/NS, Rory, and PZ, we are not prepared to bet today's lynch on Amrun's most recent flailing. Amrun's early game pressure that was rightfully aimed at NS was on point and, given some varied experience with her as a player prior to this game, we were both in agreement in terms of a gut town read.
This isn't to say that we wouldn't be wrong, but this is to say that we will not be joining this wagon as of right now. There are too many other players that we'd prefer to see lynched, and we're not prepared to concede our reads to the contrary majority.
Here Copper makes it clear that he won't join an Amrun lynch because there are better candidates. But when the PZ wagon happened, he stayed away from it completely.
He later provides this rationale:
Copper wrote:To that end, we're feeling better about Papa Zito. Every single one of our strong townreads was on the Amrun wagon. We didn't approve of the wagon ourselves, but were hesitant to join the D1 Papa Zito counter - as Muffin rightly pointed out, VitaminR championing it was reason enough to give us cold feet. In the end, the wagon swelled to include some very shady characters. I'm not sure why scum would want to stop an Amrun lynch, but Zito almost certainly has scum votes on him, and it doesn't seem like a bus.
Does this make sense to anyone? Remember that Copper claimed to have a strong town read on Amrun. So it's not like he was uncomfortable about me pushing a counterwagon. He wanted a counterwagon. Put yourself in Copper's place and think about whether that would make sense to you. Consider also that I was the first vote on PZ, so it wasn't like my vote was a huge determinant of the relationship between me and PZ (when I voted him, it really didn't mean much).
Also, malp is definitely town for putting a fourth vote on PZ Day 1. That almost made the PZ wagon a viable counterwagon. Rory's third vote looks good too, but is probably less significant.
As zMuffin is getting replaced, and most of us agree that all the three nominated players are town, the only reason to lynch someone is the lack of contribution. That said, I would like us to wait for zMuff's replacement to say something. Then we can lynch.
I think it would be nicer to the mod and the replacement, to just lynch the guy and leave it at that. We wanted to lynch him anyway (4-0-0, at L-1) so it's kind of a dick move to let someone replace into that slot, reread, make a single post and then hammer him.
Stop stalling malpa.
"I died and turned into a Roman. It's very distracting."
The announcement that Papa Zito's elimination had been in error left the contestants unfazed. They set to the task of unraveling the nature of the list they had been given for this phase, and their judgment came swifter than it had ever before. zMuffinMan, who'd been quiet since before the votes on Papa Zito were falling, was staring into space.
What's he thinking
, they asked him and each other, but he gave no response. Neither did he stir when they dropped their votes one after the other, soon reaching the required majority to send him out. They figured that zMuffinMan was an honest man, but it was better that zMuffinMan left now before anything funny happened.
They heard the familiar buzz, and the light above the doors was green. They had to push zMuffinMan off the stage before he would move again, and when he did move, he simply left through the double doors without so much as a glance back.
zMuffinMan,
townie
, was lynched on Day 4!
Day 5 begins now.
Last edited by Equinox on Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
trust me here like you trusted me on PZ (who I made a very good case on in my mind whilst on holiday heer in Austria and am slightly dissapointed that it is now obsolete)
well done for eliminating muffin, he was the best lynch even though we were all obvtown
I return from holiday on saturday. Forgetting that I'm here will cause... consequences when I return.
The nerve the scumteam have for putting me up too. It only confirms mz suspicions that I'm a threat to them and my reads are correct.
1 Thessalonians 5:21: Test everything, but hold fast onto what is good
"Murder is no better than cards if cards can do the trick"
~Screwtape
okay, my time is very limited. I have an angry austrian making bizzare gestures at me right now whilst I'm on this computer.
I'm 99% sure rory is scum. I have reasons but no time to explain them. Either lynch him or no-one until i return would be great. I realise my V/la is frustrating, but I only trust 3 of you
to Quilford: what is your read on me?
to BB: As pleased that I am that you have a town read on me I find it awkward that you only mention one thing I've done that you found town and then dismissed me. As pleased that I am with your conclusion, the little you have mentioned me, yet putting me as your top town read is a little sheepy sheep to me. It'd be real swish if you explained your read on me
I feel if we lynch rory today and keep the obvtown quad of myself, quilford, malpa 8and to a lesser extent ) BB alive this should be won
I really think rory is scum. He is a living PZ bus. From the way he swore to lynch him from D2 to his removal of his PZ vote D3 but still with the promise to hammer (so a bus without the downside of the vote. Credit should PZ die as he'd flip scum, yet not actually hurting his chances by voting PZ)
That and rory was just as scummy as PZ and the obvtownieness of other candidates that I have already mentioned (malpa in particular) makes him the best lynch
Fenchurch looks very suspect for her initial lukewarm stance on PZ D3 and that she only voted him when I told her she may look scummy if her vote stayed off him should PZ flip scum. She had no choice but to vote PZ were she scum
I feel if we lynch rory, then fenchurch and vitamin if the game is still going, we will have our win
until I reurn, don't have too much fun.
Welcome to Quilford too as this is the first chance I have to say that
I need to go now. Angry Austrian man is persistent
TS
1 Thessalonians 5:21: Test everything, but hold fast onto what is good
"Murder is no better than cards if cards can do the trick"
~Screwtape
Rory the Roman wrote:Fenchurch says we are throwing a lot of accusations around. I think that's odd. We wanted PZ lynched. We agree on molla scum, and we disagree on the third. One head says malpa. Other head says Fenchurch.
Apologies... I guess you're right in that it's me not reading - I forget you're a hydra, and got into a habit of looking at posts as if they were from a single person, except where you point it out specifically. It makes sense now because of your internal disagreement, but with 6 other players left in the game and you taking turns to accuse 4, it does seem like you're trying to spread suspicion.
Rory the Roman wrote:fenchurch her last move from Zmuff (in favour of who's lynch she argued very much) to CES which practically hammered Hoopla
Unless I'm misreading this, are you saying my final vote-change resulted in Hoopla's lynch? If so that's a proper misrep, that was just 3 hours before deadline, the zMuffin wagon wasn't taking off, and both Zito and Copper said they would move to CES.
I'm still torn between Rory and malpa, who I think are scummy for the things they've said, and BBmolla/Copper, who I think is scummy for the things he hasn't said. And I've been out every evening this week and haven't been able to do a proper re-read in light of Zito's flip. Maybe I should replace out, I think maybe I'm too busy these days for forum mafia, but there's been so many replacements and that puts more pressure on the mod and somebody new to join the game. At least I have been following the game, I just haven't been able to do the digging that I want to. Sorry.
VitaminR wrote:Otherwise agree with Quilford that Fenchurch declaring me town for being on a few PZ wagons is odd. I totally bus as scum.
Eh it's not that I don't think you would bus, but the way you did it that didn't seem like a bus to me. I don't think you'd be first on the wagon at both opportunities, especially from what people have said about your playstyle. But I don't know.
And screw it...
VOTE: malpa
I didn't like the way he hammered zMuffin, and I think he's been pretty obv-scum all game. I think Zito could have easily been bussing him, because the arguments against him were obvious.
It's not that his reasoning about hammering/not hammering an inactive player was incorrect (both are true, it's incredibly sucky expecting someone to catch up on a game when we're planning to lynch them either way, but then, having an extra opinion could be helpful for the town). It's the way he made a decision, then instantly changed his mind at the prompt from Rory.
