Newbie 1138 - Game Over! Town Win!

[cavjj]

Dark Claymore - to be fair your only realy argument so far seems to be "well it's not my fault you all did this or you all thought that"....

[DarkClaymore]

whatever, i'm tired. you've been trying to make everyone who criticizes you seem unreasonable,

I never said that whoever criticizes me is wrong because I admit I would have done the same in their place. The only part that is wrong is focusing so much on me while not paying as much attention (the way I see it) to others.

and contributing little to nothing besides continued remarks about how people should be doing less or how hard and pointless our situation in the game is

And what do you expect me to say? To make up reasons to blame people? Because sure, that's VERY protown. And I didn't tell anybody how to play. I just wanted to point out that playing too actively makes you a night kill target and that you all should consider this aspect when deciding whatever Abel is suspicious in your eyes or not.

But of course, I'm inactive, not contributing and my posts are useless so there's no need to take anything I say into account at all.

All I said is that Abel seems to jump on every thing I write

he's done to several players, you aren't special.

Oh really? Did he go and summarized all the posts made by another player aside of me? I don't think so.

I just can't understand the logic in branding me scum and you town while the same reason could easily be used against both of us and for some odd reason is used only against me. If anything, at least make me scum and you neutral. Making you most protown like this just feels awfully off.

that would be bad logic except 1.) that isn't the only reason against you and b.) i'm town.

1) Yet it's a reason which he keeps using in order to point fingers at me and not at anyone else
2) How I hate when people say this... Well YEAH? I'm also town. What do you have to say about this? Huh? HUH?

Dark Claymore - to be fair your only realy argument so far seems to be "well it's not my fault you all did this or you all thought that"....

It's just that people choose to write off my other arguments so I see no point unless I find something that will be "strong" enough to convince someone. Even though I'm sure that if I find something like this - it'll still hit a townie. The loud reasons are not the good reasons. I just can't understand why people refuse to accept this. Not even once I have seen someone hitting scum with some kind of "loud and obvious" reason.

I by much prefer to search for repetitive patterns as I manged to hit scum quite a few times like that. But others seem to think all the things of this kind I present are stupid and useless. Because sure, following obvious stuff is always easier.

[Bricktoes]

how old are you?

[Bricktoes]

we're quite aware of your preferences and how unfair this game is to you. what are your rreads and opinions? what does your town/scum list look like?

[DarkClaymore]

how old are you?

Does it matter?

how unfair this game is to you.

What do you mean?

what are your rreads and opinions? what does your town/scum list look like?

I already said, I'm a poor scumhunter. Thus I don't really have anything I'm willing to follow and I rarely ever get something like that. I can make a list but I'm pretty sure I'd change my opinion soon anyway:

None
------------------
I Am Innocent
cavjj
dicknose
------------------
whilst
Honest Abel

I didn't put the inactive IC because there's no point in doing so...

[Bricktoes]

why is whilst more scummy than me? for someone who thinks extreme playstyles are horrible you seem pretty intent on ignoring the ic.

[I Am Innocent]

Sorry guys, been busy the last day+ and today looks just as busy. Will catch up and post my thoughts on all the players probably this weekend.

Did skim through and noticed alot of feelings being stirred up on our IC slot. Give NS some time, if he does flake we have until Aug 22nd to lynch somebody. A replacement would be brought in. In other words, let the mod handle those who are flaking, we do not need to do so. If he posts every 3rd day to avoid replacement...well that is an entirely different story.

One other thing I noticed in my skimming, Dicknose and DC's listing of townie to scum at first glance felt very sincere and how I'd imagine my list would look by D2/12 pages in. I'll discuss what I mean in more detail when I put together my list after fully catching up.

[DarkClaymore]

why is whilst more scummy than me?

He did something that appeared like indirectly defending me while arguing with Abel. I don't like people defending others when there is no a VERY good reason for that. Especially defending a lynchbait should be out of question. Players should be defending themselves.

Scum tend to slightly defend townies who most likely will be lynched. This gives them some town points when that player flips town after lynch. What more is that Abel seems to be doing something similar and even more actively.

Thus I believe that at least one of them should be scum. Or maybe even both of them.

for someone who thinks extreme playstyles are horrible you seem pretty intent on ignoring the ic.

Problem is he isn't lurking or anything like that. He just... isn't playing. I can't even consider him a player right now...

[Bricktoes]

why am i scummy?

[Bricktoes]

One other thing I noticed in my skimming, Dicknose and DC's listing of townie to scum at first glance felt very sincere and how I'd imagine my list would look by D2/12 pages in. I'll discuss what I mean in more detail when I put together my list after fully catching up.

Read closer, our lists are nothing alike.

[DarkClaymore]

why am i scummy?

You on the neutral side. It's just that Cav is still under some suspicion due to hammering even though I leaning toward beveling he isn't scum. You are below him due to Abel strongly pushing that you are town. I find it strange and more scummy than Cav's reason. Though the possibility I'm just falling into Abel's trap still exists.

And I personally didn't find anything against IAI so I just let him to be on top as there are reasons for the rest.

[Nobody Special]

Alright, I'm just gonna get some questions out just so we can get to know each other a bit.
1. How many games have you played at MafiaScum?
2. Have you played anywhere else prior to MafiaScum?
3. Do you believe in magic?
4. Know any of the other players in the game from prior games?

1) Over 30.
2) Yes; a couple of forums; never yet in meatspace.
3) In a young girl's heart.
4) Yes: I've played with Honest Abel and Innocent (don't believe it!); I've seen dicknose and Scumhunter aorund, but don't really "know" them.

I agree that this post is not the most pro-town; but having played with Abel before (and having seen his play), I'll cut him some slack. Let's see if he improves over the next several pages.

Dark Claymore is making a Big Deal over the 'fact' that he's never been scum. Could be overcompensating.

Well, that's two pages. More after sleep.

[DarkClaymore]

Dark Claymore is making a Big Deal over the 'fact' that he's never been scum. Could be overcompensating.

I didn't make a big deal out of it.
However, on that matter, I know I person who was mafia in 6 out 7 games he played. And I was mason in the 3 out of 3 games I played which had the mason role.

Just saying.

[DarkClaymore]

Fix:

However, on that matter, I know

a

person who was mafia in 6 out 7 games he played. And I was mason in the 3 out of 3 games I played which had the mason role.

[Honest Abel]

DarkClaymore, you've thrown more half-assed accusations at me last night than I can count.

Please summarize your case against me

if you truly have one and cite sources. No more of this "well one time this thing happened and this guy turned out to be scum..." nonsense. Just stop, it's irrelevant, especially if you can't muster up the effort to cite. And please do it like you actually care about the result of the game and aren't just here to act scummy and see how it turns out.

NS, I would appreciate it if you caught up in this game and started doing some active scumhunting and made some decisions. You have no idea how frustrating it is to have to wait on one guy in a game when there's pretty much bundles of evidence to lynch one way or another.

[DarkClaymore]

DarkClaymore, you've thrown more half-assed accusations at me last night than I can count.

Please summarize your case against me

if you truly have one and cite sources. No more of this "well one time this thing happened and this guy turned out to be scum..." nonsense. Just stop, it's irrelevant, especially if you can't muster up the effort to cite. And please do it like you actually care about the result of the game and aren't just here to act scummy and see how it turns out.

It's NOT irrelevant. As I said, I prefer to follow repetitive patterns rather than all these obvious reasons that never hit scum. You fit quite a few of them:

1) Long posts.
2) Arguing strongly with some specific individuals while leaving others alone and hardly gunning at them.
4) Protecting a townie, or at the very least strongly stressing how you believe he is town. This is my main one and is the strongest reason I'm ever willing to follow in mafia games (aside of cop claim).
5) Ridiculing everything I say and making it appear as useless and dumb. This I'm not sure whatever is a repetitive pattern or not as I have seen it only once so far but might as well test it with this game.

Stuff that doesn't rely on previous games:
4) Saying you'll reveal more info at L-1 during D1. No point to say that as you should have known no one would really try to lynch you so soon. You were put in L-1

because

you said that one thing.
5) Considering a strange, IMO , possibility of mafia planning Cav's hammering when at the same time denying any wine theory I presented regarding night kills. The mafia members are

not

superhumans. They couldn't have known he'll hammer.

And what do you want me to cite? Posts from mafia game on another forum?
It's not like most of the reasons can be proven with a single post anyway.

[Honest Abel]

It's NOT irrelevant. As I said, I prefer to follow repetitive patterns rather than all these obvious reasons that never hit scum. You fit quite a few of them:

1) Long posts.
2) Arguing strongly with some specific individuals while leaving others alone and hardly gunning at them.
4) Protecting a townie, or at the very least strongly stressing how you believe he is town. This is my main one and is the strongest reason I'm ever willing to follow in mafia games (aside of cop claim).
5) Ridiculing everything I say and making it appear as useless and dumb. This I'm not sure whatever is a repetitive pattern or not as I have seen it only once so far but might as well test it with this game.

Thanks for putting the effort in to make a list. However, I have a pot of problems with this:

1. I make long posts, but they all have clear protown points. Even if I slip a joke or some irrelevant fluff into my posts, they are usually 95% pointed and purposeful, either to pressure or advance reasoning. I defy you to make a good case otherwise.
2. I'm arguing strongly with the individuals I find scummy. If I were to suddenly find someone else scummy or confusing, I would pressure that individual. But nobody has stepped forward with that appearance other than you, IAI, and cavjj, in my opinion. I can think of perfectly town reasons why dicknose and whilst are saying the things they say, even if they're not the best players. When I find them suspect, I will whittle them down to nothing to discover what lies underneath, trust me. I'm also focusing on you because you have been around the most and have contributed, uncontested, the largest amount of anti-town material in the game and continue to do so.
4. (or 3 for the rest of us) I'm protecting a townie? Wow, I must be scum. I've given town reads on dicknose because he's the only one acting in what I think is a clear pro-town manner. He questions people for good reasons, thinks about the logic behind people's posts and picks out the glaring flaws, and puts pressure where pressure is needed. Knowing whilst from previous games, I can see this being town whilst, even though some of his skills aren't sharpened. I reserve the right to change that impression on day 3 if DC or IAI turn up town.
5. I'm not attempting to make you look stupid. I'm pointing out that your reasons for doing what you're doing are not sufficient, and thus I don't trust them and neither should anyone else. You're taking personal offense at that. Please don't.

Stuff that doesn't rely on previous games:
4) Saying you'll reveal more info at L-1 during D1. No point to say that as you should have known no one would really try to lynch you so soon. You were put in L-1

because

you said that one thing.
5) Considering a strange, IMO , possibility of mafia planning Cav's hammering when at the same time denying any wine theory I presented regarding night kills. The mafia members are

not

superhumans. They couldn't have known he'll hammer.

4. Maybe that wasn't the smartest move on my part, but I don't see how it's scummy. Please explain further if you have any reasons why it was something scum would do and town wouldn't. My main reason was that I didn't want to be put at L-1 and then immediately hammered without any further discussion. Saying that I would talk more at L-1 would make people want to talk more or make the hammerer very suspect. It's only fair to let people say what they have to say at :-1, especially given that there wasn't much time to say anything at that point because it was so early in the day. That's what made the L-1 and instahammer on BBmolla frustrating, too.
5. Way to underhandedly pat yourself on the back by calling yourself superhuman. I don't think using cavjj was such a stretch seeing as he stressed how he would hammer given the first opportunity and how he put me at L-1 with very little purpose. This is a matter of opinion, and no matter how many times you say "using cavjj is a stretch," I can still consider it a personal point against you. You should not have brought yet another person to L-1 after the backlash from the first L-1 bandwagon. That's just silly and scummy.

And what do you want me to cite? Posts from mafia game on another forum?
It's not like most of the reasons can be proven with a single post anyway.

If you're not going to cite something, don't even talk about it. It is not proof to me or anyone that you "saw something once" and it turned out a certain way. It's fluff. It's making you look like you're thinking about something when really you're just spinning yarns.

[Bricktoes]

As I said, I prefer to follow repetitive patterns rather than all these obvious reasons that never hit scum.

How much data do you have to back up these 'patterns'? Most of your points are either misrepresentations or inconclusive.

[Honest Abel]

DC, I also want you to know, if you are town, that the way you are acting is not fair to the town. There are clear and definite ways to help the town in this game, and then there is doing what you're doing, which you've admitted is entirely out of self-preservation. The goal of this game isn't to stay alive as long as you can (unless you're mafia), it's to bring to light as much truth as possible while you're alive. You can still win the game after you die as long as your team wins. It's a team game. Confusing everyone else to suit your own hidden agenda is not townly conduct.

[DarkClaymore]

DC, I also want you to know, if you are town, that the way you are acting is not fair to the town. There are clear and definite ways to help the town in this game, and then there is doing what you're doing, which you've admitted is entirely out of self-preservation. The goal of this game isn't to stay alive as long as you can (unless you're mafia), it's to bring to light as much truth as possible while you're alive. You can still win the game after you die as long as your team wins. It's a team game. Confusing everyone else to suit your own hidden agenda is not townly conduct.

This I know and said the same thing once to another player. I believe I adopted a few features from him into my playstyle. But the difference is that I try to gain data from what I do rather than just surviving longer. In the end, my playstyle is always suicidal. Perhaps I might avoid a few night kills, but I can already see myself lynched soon enough.

I'll put it the other way around. I can play more normally, but I'll most likely won't help you at all to catch scum due to my poor skills. For the town, it's either kill me due to being suspicious while attempting to gain data or keep me alive as a player who only looks useful but in the end always makes mistakes.

That's how I was in my first game. Did I help at all? No. The rest did everything. On the other hand, with a similar playstyle to my current, I manged to get scum killed on D1 and hit some more scum by analyzing their reactions toward my playstyle.

As I said, I prefer to follow repetitive patterns rather than all these obvious reasons that never hit scum.

How much data do you have to back up these 'patterns'? Most of your points are either misrepresentations or inconclusive.

I base most things on at least two or more games.
For example scum supporting a townie - happened in EVERY game I have played. EVERY damn game. The moment I see it I just can't to not automatically brand that player as scum.
Scum doing long posts - happened in at least 3 games. Tbh maybe it even happened in each of them but I wasn't strongly following patterns from the very beginning.

5. I'm not attempting to make you look stupid. I'm pointing out that your reasons for doing what you're doing are not sufficient, and thus I don't trust them and neither should anyone else. You're taking personal offense at that. Please don't.

I didn't take it personally but rather decided that "choosing a player and blocking everything he says" might be a scum pattern. It doesn't have to be me. It's just that it's me this time around too.

5. Way to underhandedly pat yourself on the back by calling yourself superhuman.

I meant that what I said about wine thinking regarding night killing is more normal than planning Cav's hammer. No one here even knows this player . And he didn't really appear to me "Hammering Hungry" to me (though I need to reread the first pages to be 100% sure that there were no signs for this. I personally didn't see him as such). I just think it was impossible to foresee that some player you don't know will hammer.

You should not have brought yet another person to L-1 after the backlash from the first L-1 bandwagon. That's just silly and scummy.

Why? L-1 is most likely the best method town has to put pressure. I wanted to see whatever something happens if he is brought to L-1. Perhaps scummy but silly it's not.

If you're not going to cite something, don't even talk about it. It is not proof to me or anyone that you "saw something once" and it turned out a certain way. It's fluff. It's making you look like you're thinking about something when really you're just spinning yarns.

Most of the stuff can't be cited with just a few posts and neither will I be able to find the right posts from previous games most likely. I could stop bringing these things but then you'll have a lurker. Because these are the main things I'm searching for. Everything else I notice tend to mislead me. This is, also, based on what happened in previous games. I'm a poor scumhunter. I said it.

[Honest Abel]

Only read the first part of your post and have a quick response, I'll respond to the rest after my break/meetings.

You say that your current playstyle ended up helping the town lynch someone on D1. Can you explain how? Can you link to the game so I can see? I just can't picture you convincing anyone to vote for who you want to vote for, not when you're acting scummy on purpose.

[Honest Abel]

Otherwise, you're still spinning yarns.

[Bricktoes]

According to the wiki, the jargon for Darky is VI.

[DarkClaymore]

Only read the first part of your post and have a quick response, I'll respond to the rest after my break/meetings.

You say that your current playstyle ended up helping the town lynch someone on D1. Can you explain how? Can you link to the game so I can see? I just can't picture you convincing anyone to vote for who you want to vote for, not when you're acting scummy on purpose.

What I was doing is convincing people to make a lynch tie while making myself part of the tie as well. I was planning scummy for the sake of being included in the tie while talking a lot about how tie is a very good solution for gaining info in D1. What I was saying is that whoever survives a tie most likely isn't scum as scum should be able to easily save their friend. At the same time, I wanted to see the opinions of others regarding my lynchbait play.

My initial idea was more townhunting than scumhunting. But apparently all this talk of mine about whoever survives the tie is clear made a scum ready to take the chance and participate in a tie even though he could easily avoid it. And he was killed. While you could say it was luck or whatever, the initial lynchbait playing style also let me suspect a player no one suspected. That player ended up being scum. But they figured that out only on D4 with cop claim while I was telling them it's the case from the

very beginning

of D1.

Sadly it has too many posts and too many stuff happened so I doubt you'll really want to read it...

But here is where the game began if you are interested:
http://nisamerica.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 50#p226638
I don't think I can really pinpoint any part in which my influence started though I only became active from this point due to certain silly issues in the forum:
http://nisamerica.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 00#p227253
For me, the part I wasn't active in actually yield the best info. But sadly others couldn't see that and forced me participate (even though I promised to not post for a while in the forum). Just like you all here resent my lynchbait playstyle.

There's also a summary I made since D1 there was TOO active
http://nisamerica.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 15#p222570

And you also have an archive here.
http://nisamerica.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 15#p222458
The OP is just ahead of it too.

According to the wiki, the jargon for Darky is VI.

What...?

[Honest Abel]

So you think he's town, but just an idiot?

I will definitely check out your links later, thanks.