TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[Pappums Leather Jacket]

Ok, just got back to this.

Given the state of things righ now, I'd be fine with a Silver lynch, though I want to look into it a bit more before I place my vote.

However, Junpei's reasoning for the track target is flimsy at best. Plus, from what I've heard, Vezok is a regular VI.

@Vezok I know this has been said already, but do you know if Junpei is lying?

Also, I'm waiting on this whole neiborizing thing MoI has going on.

This post says practically nothing at all while seeming to attempt to sound like he is contributing. I dont see the reason behind holding off on voting, its not like silver is in any danger of being lynched, and having your vote down is the pro-town thing to do. Then he regurgitates the thought that Junpei's reasoning for tracking Vezok is poor, adding the token "Vezok's a VI" line. Then he pointlessly asks Vezok for confirmation on whether Junpei is lying, WHICH NUMEROUS PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY DONE and which Vezok is going to do when he comes on anyway ffs. Then he parrots other's "MoI's neighborhood" idea. This is a vacuous garbage post, and izak further strengthens his scumread.

@MoI well, now that you've outed him, I can totally see what you mean. I am still leaning towards silver more, but is there anything in particular that makes Andrew very scummy?

So you "totally see what he means" and yet you still need him to explain what it was that made Andrew scummy?

Pinky and the Brain make good arguments against silver. silver's defense of those points are terrible.

ZELINK MUST POST FASTER. AND IF HE WASNT ROLEBLOCKED I WILL MAKE HIM EAT SHIT

This made me laugh. I can just see Meran forcefeeding Zelink shit.

In all seriousness though, I am really surprised so many people took Zelink's vig claim seriously. I thought it was pretty obvious that he was joking about vigging Zinger because of Zinger's utter faliure as vig in Super Hero Mafia.

[chkballin]

Let me clarify for Junpei and whatever Silver said, because to be honest- I REALLY don't read things that are insulting.

I DO NOT WANT TO READ CRAP. YES, ME- GLOWBALL DO NOT WANT TO CONTRIBUTE TO OR READ ANYMORE CRAP.

If it is fitting we will make large posts, but going through ISOs of NONSENSE is tedious and unhelpful. When our alarm goes off we will tell you, and we are reading but if half way through the post you still have yet to make any sense or say anything relevant you will probably be ignored if I am reading it and because I am the main head at this time that's life. I think it is more anti-town to spam the thread. Just do not be fooled, it is not laziness, and to be fair it isn't even both heads- Laziness would be that I wouldn't read a wall. I WILL READ WALLS if they have something to say rather than the tit for tat going nowhere fast arguments. I've seen this crap, you've probably seen this crap and it's just townies tearing themselves apart. If an argument becomes scummy we are here to scumhunt. Active lurking isn't the purpose. If you don't respect that do what you want, policy lynch, blacklist- don't care.

When your arguments are worth reading, they will be read.

*Consider adopting a Vollkan- like concise scum hunting system that contains less fluff.

[vezokpiraka]

Did we decide on who are we lynching today or are we still spewing crap on each other?

Zelink come here and tell us who you shot.

[andrew94]

junpei seriously. hes first post. he just made a general statement that looked like he was doing something when he was not. that so hard to get?

im pretty sure i was attempting to say next time someone claims pr.

junpei, your post 1527, where u find all these examples. i notice you missed out thadmiral and some others who did the same thing





ok so moi outed me. cool. after wanting more votes on pappum.
i have some suspisions at the moment, however ill say them later on.(info for the town on the other neighbourizer)

let me run through your reasons:
Here’s a run-down of my thoughts on why they are more likely to be scum.

1. Dayplay in thread has been very substandard and lurky.

compare that to my posts in the thread

2. QT reasoning that I found suspect –

A. They said they considered skipping Day recruiting at first.

lol whats wrong with that

B. Low overall QT precence and no-scum hunting therein. His early interactions with me are asking general gameplay questions like “Why is Hydra Dissonance scummy”.

because i dont even know what that is.i have scumhunting in the thread. you never intiated any reads on any players privately. all my reads i posted on the game

C. After some time asks point blank whether I think he is more Town than the other Neighborizor.

i had a feeling i was the less town

D. Suggests in QT that he might not Night Recruit (which I find a huge scumdar Ding) to ‘preserve the Integrity’ of the QT.

same as why i didnt wanna day recruit fast. and bro i asked jason and he said you could invite anyone. i then asked if one was scum, whether he could invite his scumbuddies. he said yea. hello??

E. The second recruit to the Neighborhood was a scum-read of the Neighborizor. After he talked about ‘keepeing the integrity’.

read again

banshee and people posting after all ignores moi post


izak posts first about it, i find that a town read


@everyone you know how you demanded junpei's track. and he said vezok. what if vezok said he did go somewhere. who would you believe.

david continueing on his questioning from yesterday null
many other people completely ignore moi afterwards (chk silver etc)

[ThAdmiral]

There's a heap of stuff I want to reply to but I'm v busy right now. I'll be able to post tomorrow.

[Banshee]

VOTE: Andrew

This.

[killerjester]

2. - Shotty (His posts... especially him claiming it's a scum gambit when

I've done the nearly same exact gambit in previous game with him and flipping VT

) - Everybody whose saying, oh he was quiet when the zinger wagon picked up... especially for the people who bitched about me being outspoken and repetitive in the first place, and really just seems like a pretty crap excuse to pick up the steam on my wagon again) This includes Rod who simply parrots the original one which is Pinky, and Jester is in there somewhere I think but I forget where now and am too lazy to find it (though I might be slightly wrong as to if they were bitching... maybe that was chk... upon which case throw Pinky into 4th, rod stays where he's at)

Sorry for getting frustrated last night. I'm willing to buy your VT claim pending a link to the bolded game.

[jasonT1981]

Day 2 Vote Count 3

Silver 6 - Nero, Hipaddict, Leon, Shotty, Pinky, CHKBallin
Andrew 2 - THAdmiral, Banshee
Pappums 1 - MOI
Mera 1 - Rodion
Cherve 1 - Pappums
Peregrine 1 - Rainbowdash
Nero 1 - Silver
Rodion 1 - Castle

With 25 alive, it takes 13 to lynch

[David Xanatos]

Andrew, given that you've now confirmed yourself as the neighbouriser, I'll direct this to you too.

Who was the supposed "scum-read" you invited to the neighbourhood? Why did you invite a scum-read if Jason has apparently confirmed to you that they could then invite people themselves? Why did you choose to invite MoI in the first place? What are the terms of your role, as described to MoI?

Those questions should do for now..

[David Xanatos]

And for the record, I just read over the game Silver's using as a defense.. different situation as far as I can see. May read more into it but I can't justify wasting any more time.. >_<

[silverbullet999]

Not sure if your looking at the right game Dave.. I've attempted martyrs in quite a few and in different ways... this is the game with shotty i'm talking about though. Wasn't day 1 though, day 5.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=750

-ChkBallin
Oh I forgot you were part of the hydra *blush*... but yeah now that you clarified more it makes sense... that original post just came off as I'm too lazy to participate. That's all.

-Killer
It's all good, but do please answer my question

What's changed from D1?

(also it being originally at that point not now currently)

[silverbullet999]

And for the record, I just read over the game Silver's using as a defense.. different situation as far as I can see. May read more into it but I can't justify wasting any more time.. >_<

Also don't twist my words Dave, I'm not using it as a defense. I'm only bringing it up because Shotty doing what he's done while in the past it's occured before sets off slight alarms. (He is Shotty though... the perfect VI -_-... so it may just fall under that).

[killerjester]

-Killer
It's all good, but do please answer my question

What's changed from D1?

(also it being originally at that point not now currently)

Maybe it was a longshot, but you just seemed overconfident that Zinger was town on D1. Not really anything worth delving too far into before his flip. My thought process went something like, "How could a VT be

THAT SURE

Zinger was a townie? So far as to throw up his own life for it." The fact that you've done this before makes it a little more reasonable. Nothing I'd lynch you over today at least.

UNVOTE:

Andrew screams scumminess, I'll probably vote him in a few hours. I've just ignored the entire neighbourizer thing and want to understand it a bit better. So for anyone who cares, you can expect my vote later, but still today.

[Banshee]

I did my reread. I don't see a point in rehashing what everyone already knows, so I did some vote analysis to figure out something I was curious about.

While I think that Silver couldn't know he wouldn't be lynched when he offered himself in preference to a Zinger lynch, I went back and checked the vote counts and did some cross checking on what was said when.

Vote Count 12 (Post 1056)
Zinger 10 - Vezo,Leonshade, Junpei, 3isFrench, Izak, Pappum,, KillerJester, DavidX, Vollkan,Pinky,(L-4)
Silverdrummer 6 - Slate, Oversoul, Nero, Mera, Cherve,MOI,

Silverdrummer announces he'd rather die than let us lynch Zinger. (Post 1060) Says he's "fine with my lynch but let me get my last word before a hammer when it gets to that point." (Post 1179) Also, comments he enjoys being a martyr sometimes. (Post 1184)

Vote Count 13 (Post 1214)
Silver: 10 - rainbow, Oversoul, Nero, Mera, Cherve,MOI,THAdmiral, Zinger, CHKBallin,Pinky (L-4)
Zinger 9 - Vezo,Leonshade, Junpei, Hipaddict, Izak, Pappum, KillerJester, DavidX, Vollkan

Silverdrummer makes an effort to delay his lynch until after the 11th of August or something like that, asks not to be lynched "right the ef now." (I think I've interpreted this correctly.) (post 1264)

Notes that Zinger is at L-2 but does not renew his martyr bid. (Post 1275)

Vote Count 14 (Post 1308)
Zinger 12 - Vezo,Leonshade, Junpei, Hipaddict, Izak, Pappum, KillerJester, DavidX, Vollkan,Slate,Cherve,Pinky (L-2)
Silver 8 - Oversoul, Nero, Mera, MOI, THAdmiral, Zinger, CHKBallin, Andrew (L-6)

Nothing from Silverdrummer/Silverbullet during this period. (I don't know if he was V/LA or not, so I'm not counting this as a tell of any kind.)

Vote Count 15 (Post 1350)
Zinger 13 - Vezo,Leonshade, Junpei, Hipaddict, Izak, Pappum,, KillerJester, DavidX, Vollkan,Slate,Cherve,Pinky, Banshee (L-1)
Silver 8 - Oversoul, Nero, Mera, MOI, THAdmiral, Zinger, CHKBallin, Andrew

Silverdrummer does a "catch-up post" in which he makes no mention of Zinger or his martyr play. (Post 1377)

Vote Count 16 (Post 1393)
Zinger 13 - Vezo,Leonshade, Junpei, Hipaddict, Izak, Pappum,, KillerJester, DavidX, Vollkan,Rainbow,Cherve,Pinky, Banshee (L-1)
Silver 7 - Oversoul, Nero, Mera, MOI, , Zinger, CHKBallin, Andrew

Shotty hammers in 1426.

Vote Count 17 (Post 1465)
Zinger 14 - Vezo,Leonshade, Junpei, Hipaddict, Izak, Pappum,, KillerJester, DavidX, Vollkan,Rainbow,Cherve,Pinky, Banshee, Shotty. (Lynch)
Silver 6 - Oversoul, Nero, Mera , Zinger, CHKBallin, Andrew

My own impression of this is that Silver made the offer and, when people began to take him up on it, then had buyer's remorse for it and stopped talking about it.

Any other observations or comments are welcome.

[David Xanatos]

You know, in that game you were actually worse. You self-hammered as Town, putting the game into MYLO... that's not exactly something to be proud of having meta for. If you'd no-lynched, or let the deadline expire, it would have went to 5-2.. better odds at least, combined with the NL and the mafia lynch... I simply can't see the logic in your play that game. You know for a fact you are Town, and by self-hammering you gave the Scum an advantage. -_-

[MagnaofIllusion]

Of course it was obvious that he essentially claimed VT early on, which is that town tell I was harping on all yesterday.

The thing is silver doesn't give me the air of someone who is very attentive to their past posts, and if scum someone who very easily could have decided to claim some power on a whim, and get instant caught.

Thats why him being off the Zinger wagon was a massive towntell, and if ever combined with an eventual VT claim which after the early posts today we are getting regardless of his alignment, would make him one of my top town reads. Would the trap have worked if he is scum?

No clue, but I wanted it there just incase, which leaves me a little peeved that ponies have gone and wrecked it.

The bolded I find not very believable. I’m sorry but setting it up as some grand 'Tarp' on the off chance he was dumb enough to ‘forget’ he claimed Vanilla to catch him later when you could have lynched him over a claimed Power Role is just pointless.

Also yes, I read pappums as town. Asking "really?" doesn't change it.

I didn’t expect it to change. I just wanted you to confirm your stance. You could have shown ISO posts of solid scum-hunting in his ISO. But I’m happy with your confirmed position being on record.

You know what town normally does when they see two town reads fighting?

The STOP THE FIGHT by trying to prove why both people are town to everypony else, or at least prove why their pick is more likely scum.

You did neither, but just sat back the entire time.

I’ve bolded the part that I find laughably scummy.

1. I’d love to see examples Day 1 of ‘proving Towniness’ that actually have any credibility.
2. You are knocking someone who didn’t push a wagon on Town Power Role while you yourself did? Fantastic work their Chief.

--

Are you willing to tell us who the second recruit was?

If you aren't, can you give us your own opinion on the one he recruited? Do you think they're scummy?

No I am not willing to directly disclose said player. Andrew has that choice, as does said player. I think even if Andrew is scum the QT scum-hunting opportunities are still strong enough to warrant it being hidden.

I will say I have a Null leaning Town read on said player. Their play has been so-so (especially early) but I see several Town oriented posts at the end of the Day yesterday that I don’t see coming from scum (unless we are in multiscum which is unproven and the lack of deaths last night seems to suggest isn’t the case).

--

But david I would also like to know if he feels that it was scummy for andrew to recruit that person or not. Try not to go into detail if you aren't going to announce who it is but give us your general opinion on the matter.

Yes, recruiting someone into a Neighbor QT who you feel is a scum-read is scummy IMO.

--

Well I never asked for the me scum explanation but ok. Expand on the bold, specifically these risks. It's a little scary how your downplaying the swing in that zinger's wagon dies and mine picks up... then mine dies and zinger's picks up again as normal.

A Lynched PR is always going to kill off the PR, you have no idea what would have happened if they had to try to NK him instead and it's a MUCH HIGHER risk.

Zinger has flipped Town. Trying to look for scum behavior in the wagons by looking for how scum wanted to save the claimed Town PR by wagoning you isn’t very fruitful or even logical, IMO.

I don’t know what you are even trying to say in the bolded portion. I’ll respond to it if you clarify.

If you "know" I'm scum then why even bother to wait less I'm at L-1?

1. Way to put words in my mouth. When did I say I “know” you are scum or say that I was waiting for L-1?
2. Just because you look like a good lynch doesn’t mean I am going to ignore other scum candidates. I’ll use my words and votes as I see fit. Sorry, that’s not how I roll.

--

@everyone you know how you demanded junpei's track. and he said vezok. what if vezok said he did go somewhere. who would you believe.

This is scummy strirring the pot. You’ve asking us to take sides in a theoretical scenario that hasn’t happened. Vezok and Junpei did not contradict each other.

ok so moi outed me. cool. after wanting more votes on pappum.

Wanting more votes on another scummy candidate doesn’t mean I shouldn’t do what I think is best for Town. And at this stage I’m doubting very much you are Town. So I wanted to directly post the inforamtion.

compare that to my posts in the thread

Are you asking me to compare them to the QT thread? I’m not clear on your point here.

lol whats wrong with that

So as theortical Town Neighborizer you’d rather skip the ability to take a Town read into the QT to bounce reads off of Day 1 and instead want to hold off? Unless your ability is more restricted than you have indicated I don’t see a Town reason for doing that.

Scum on the other hand would have to balance the danger of bringing a Town player into the QT and risk getting fingered for play on two fronts (Thread and QT)

because i dont even know what that is.i have scumhunting in the thread. you never intiated any reads on any players privately. all my reads i posted on the game

I didn’t initiate reads as a means of testing you. The other Neighborizer did offer reads up unbidden. You did not.

i had a feeling i was the less town

So instead of trying to demonstrate through Pro-Town actions you just asked instead?

same as why i didnt wanna day recruit fast. and bro i asked jason and he said you could invite anyone. i then asked if one was scum, whether he could invite his scumbuddies. he said yea. hello??

Hello whut? You are the Neighborizer. You are the ONLY one who can invite someone to the QT. Why would you even be concerned about being able to invite a scum-buddy unless you are scum?

read again

I did read. You said, paraphrased “I saw something the other Neighborizer said that was a scum slip and implicated Player Y as scum with them. So I recruited Player Y”. In the same QT post (36 BTW) you said to the effect of “I believe you are scummy for what the other Neighborizor said”.

Why you didn’t just recruit a Town read of yours is beyond me.

[Meransiel]

Can we get a prod on our lazy vig? Also still awaiting Rodion's response.

[Meransiel]

It irks me that he "pretended" to have responded, tbh.

[Junpei]

A few things I should respond to, but I don't know if I should. Rodion I'm done discussing with you as you're a blundering idiot that makes me contemplate suicide when you constantly ignore what I said. END OF SUBJECT I'M DONE.

Andrew... ugh I'm almost done with this logic line too, Between you and silver there are probably 2 scum.

1) YOU SAID WAFFLING. Jesus, not that he said he'd do something and didn't. In fact, he didn't say that he'd do anything in that post at all. This response post by you is scummier than if you had said "I'll tell you tonight in mafia chat, Silver".

2) bullshit, you never implied anywhere anything about the very next PR claim, or the next PR claim in general. Scum points.

3) That is the most idiotic question I've ever heard. That's saying "HEY GUYS U KNO DAT GUY U PUT ON L-2 ND SHIT WEL IF HE SED SOMETHIN AND IT WAS PROOOFED WONG BAI VEZOK WEL WOULD YOU LYNCH VEZOK HUE?." If Vezok came out and said my report was wrong there is no doubt in my mind I'd be insta-lynched. The good news is that Vezok would be the next day.

Andrew don't even bother responding if you aren't serious about it, god.

Also I see the reasoning behind silver. I am not defending him in any way. That post to killerjester was to point out how he was hiding info. It was a "hey that's scummy" post. Only difference is unlike some people I explained WHY it was scummy. I find silver's gambit and post-gambit posts very scummy. To me it is up to Silver and andrew94 for the moment.

vote andrew94

[David Xanatos]

I'm still of the opinion that there's little to no chance of there being two town neighbourisers, and given the information shared by MoI and, to an extent, Andrew, I find little reason not to follow this up. If further information is revealed about it, I may reconsider my position, but for now..

VOTE: Andrew

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine has never taken a very strong stance this game, and avoided the entire debate yesterday, despite apparent belief that both of the top wagons were on town. I cannot see town aligned pony making that move.

So, you can't see why a town-aligned pony would not vote either of the top 2 vote-getters when that pony believed them both to be town?

Not when you take all factors into account. First it was a JK claim from the leading wagon, which you seemed to think was more likely town of the few, and you didn't take the counterwagon. Second is that you did NOTHING to stop either of the wagons, but just sat back and put your vote on somepony one else taking the whole Fluttershy stance to the disagreement. You know what town normally does when they see two town reads fighting? The STOP THE FIGHT by trying to prove why both people are town to everypony else, or at least prove why their pick is more likely scum. You did neither, but just sat back the entire time.

Were you like MoI and KJ in thinking that the posts from silver were VT softclaims?

I disagree. I can think all day both are town, but I don't know.
I know Zinger's meta, and believed his 3rd party claim, and even posted a similar possible 3rd party role form another game.
But, in the end, I don't KNOW, which is a strong factor is trying to stop 20 people from lynching the top two wagons.
I did state my opinion for everyone to read, and Silver put forth more effort to live than Zinger (or his actions were less forgivable), so he was lynched. That's part of the game and the way it's played.

I don't recall Silver softclaims, but he's claimed VT today.

[Castle Bravo]

I liked Pinky's observation on Silver not putting much effort in derailing Zinger's lynch. It does seem like he didn't need to do anything else after people took that as a VT softclaim. Spoiler on Goomba was also pretty funny, I laughed hard!

I now have a scum read on Shotty because he:

1 - hammered Zinger without providing his reasons
2 - active lurking (posting a lot but without contributing, no reads - even though I asked him -, most posts are "one-liners"...)

I think that you're looking for an easy target to lynch again here, Rodion.

You have very little day-to-day consistency in your reads, which shows to me that the lynch you are happiest with is the lynch that gets the day over with.

[Castle Bravo]

Oh it posted before I was done.

I can understand the issue with two neighborizors in a game, it's a really strong role since it proves that people are town every day even if it dies if it targets scum.

Can both players show me the breadcrumbs on who they targeted in case they died overnight?

[David Xanatos]

I don't recall seeing anything suggesting they die if they target scum.. I only saw it HERE though.. :/

[MagnaofIllusion]

I can understand the issue with two neighborizors in a game, it's a really strong role since it proves that people are town every day even if it dies if it targets scum.

Can both players show me the breadcrumbs on who they targeted in case they died overnight?

Um Neighborizors do nothing of the sort. Masons prove alignment via their role. Neighborizors don't. It is very doubtful there are any breadcrumbs to find given the roles.