Newbie 1138 - Game Over! Town Win!

[Bricktoes]

The way I read it, Village Idiot didn't speak to alignment,

What I was saying is that whoever survives a tie most likely isn't scum as scum should be able to easily save their friend.

How does this work?

[singersigner]

Vote Count 2.4

cavjj (2): DarkClaymore, whilst
DarkClaymore (2): Honest Abel, dicknose
Honest Abel (0):
whilst (0):
dicknose (0):
I Am Innocent (0):
Nobody Special (0):

Not Voting (4): cavjj, I Am Innocent, Nobody Special

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

Mod Notes:

Deadline is August 22nd, 2011 12am PST.

[DarkClaymore]

The way I read it, Village Idiot didn't speak to alignment,

What I was saying is that whoever survives a tie most likely isn't scum as scum should be able to easily save their friend.

How does this work?

Simple. If scum in a tie, especially a three way tie, the mafia should be able to easily save their member as they have numbers.

When it's a tie between two players, true that it's hard for the mafia to save their friend. I was in a situation like that where I was in tie against a scum and the most the mafia managed to do is to keep the tie between us. They couldn't break it in favor of their member.

However, in a three way tie the number of votes on every player is dim. In a situation like this, mafia should be able to save their friend if they try to. Look at the current game for example. 7 townies and 2 scum. In a three way tie, if all players vote for the three players (something I expected to not happen and it really didn't in that game) every player should get 3 votes on him.

Now think. 3 votes and the mafia are 2. Don't you think they can easily change the odds in their favor in such situation? Though I suppose this isn't as convincing as when I assume not all the player vote for the "trio". In this case every player will have only 2 votes on him and the scum are also two. Not only they can easily create another tie in this situation, they can also easily break the tie or turn it into a two-way tie between two townies.

[Bricktoes]

You said that tie survivors aren't scum because scum can save themselves. Following that, those who die in tie situations would be scum? In every situation you named, the easiest way for the scum to escape would be to shift votes and hammer the other person in a tie, meaning that the scum are most likely tto survive. And sure, scum could obfuscate things and make the tie situation more complicated, but that iisn't necessarily more likely. I don't know why you're bringing up this sort of example when it has never occured in this game, so your entire nonsensical situation has absolutely no bearing on this game. You need to start playing this game, including adjusting your play to suit this game (the game you are playing, the one on this site, not that one) or you shouldn't be playing this game.

[Honest Abel]

What the fuck is a tie?

[Bricktoes]

A vote tie.

[Honest Abel]

How? There can be no ties in mafia. Either someone is lynched at majority or there is no lynch. Not in newbie games, anyway.

[Bricktoes]

Two people at L-1 or three at L-2, apparently.

[DarkClaymore]

You said that tie survivors aren't scum because scum can save themselves. Following that, those who die in tie situations would be scum? In every situation you named, the easiest way for the scum to escape would be to shift votes and hammer the other person in a tie, meaning that the scum are most likely tto survive. And sure, scum could obfuscate things and make the tie situation more complicated, but that iisn't necessarily more likely. I don't know why you're bringing up this sort of example when it has never occured in this game, so your entire nonsensical situation has absolutely no bearing on this game. You need to start playing this game, including adjusting your play to suit this game (the game you are playing, the one on this site, not that one) or you shouldn't be playing this game.

What I proposed was a method to clear as many townies as possible during D1. I didn't really expect scum to willingly come and become part of the tie. I knew we'll most likely hit town with this method, but at least we'll have less suspects the following day. True, if the scum had survived that tie - it wouldn't have been as efficient. But he didn't and it cleared not only the other players in a tie but at the same time every player who voted for the scum.

Also, the part I'm applying to this game is only lynchbait play style which proved very useful as I manged to suspect scum on D1 and NO ONE suspected him aside of me.

What the fuck is a tie?

In some games, you must lynch everyday. There's no "No Lynch". So if majority isn't reached by the deadline, the player with the biggest number of votes will be lynched. If there is a tie in votes between two or more players, one of them is randomly lynched.

[Honest Abel]

Why are you still talking about rules and games that have nothing to do with this one? Somebody lynch this goon already.

[Bricktoes]

How does acting like scum help you find scum?

[DarkClaymore]

Why are you still talking about rules and games that have nothing to do with this one? Somebody lynch this goon already.

My point was something entirely different. I just explained why I prefer playing lynchbait instead of the regular townie. It's because I helped the town much more like this in that game. I explained the rules because it is necessary in order to understand what happened in the game which inspired me to keep playing with this style. And this is all.

I don't get why people love so much jumping on the useless stuff I say while calling everything else "useless" and "not contributing". You just try to make me look bad one way or another.





Also, if we are already on this. I'll now say something that most likely will earn some extra scum points. But I'm not planning to not say it only because of this. Not saying what you think in order to not arise suspicion is scum play. I usually don't really like saying such stuff like this out loud but if others do it then I might as well do it too...

I'm protecting a townie? Wow, I must be scum. I've given town reads on dicknose because he's the only one acting in what I think is a clear pro-town manner. He questions people for good reasons, thinks about the logic behind people's posts and picks out the glaring flaws, and puts pressure where pressure is needed. Knowing whilst from previous games, I can see this being town whilst, even though some of his skills aren't sharpened. I reserve the right to change that impression on day 3 if DC or IAI turn up town.

It's okay if you say you suspect someone less than others. But calling someone town without any solid reason isn't imo. Anyone can easily give protown reads with such actions. Both town and scum. Saying you think someone is town helps no one while it appears as if you are thinking and contributing. Also, it'll earn you town points when these players die and as mafia you'll easily be able to arrange that.

If you think someone is town, why say it out loud? Why not just keep it to yourself and keep observing the situation? You can never be too sure in mafia. They can always slip at some point. Saying you think someone is scum is protown as you point suspicion toward players that others might have missed. But saying you think someone is town is just useless to the town. You are convincing no one and no one will be convinced. All you are doing is, like I said, gaining town points and also possibly these players' trust.

But of course no one will agree with my way of thinking, like always, and will only think I'm more suspicious after this.

It's pointless but still:
VOTE: Honest Abel

How does acting like scum help you find scum?

Let me ask you. Let's assume you are scum. You see a player who is awfully suspicious and will almost certainly be lynched. What do you do during that day? Remember, as scum you know I'm innocent in this hypothetical situation..

[Bricktoes]

I refuse go take part in that hypothetical. You know who goes after scum? Everyone. Going after scummy players is not a scumtell.

[whilst]

why is whilst more scummy than me?

He did something that appeared like indirectly defending me while arguing with Abel. I don't like people defending others when there is no a VERY good reason for that. Especially defending a lynchbait should be out of question. Players should be defending themselves.

Oh man, that's a great reason. I know it's just a list, but like I've said to dicknose before: cite your arguments.

[whilst]

How does acting like scum help you find scum?

Let me ask you. Let's assume you are scum. You see a player who is awfully suspicious and will almost certainly be lynched. What do you do during that day? Remember, as scum you know I'm innocent in this hypothetical situation..

Pretty nice question. I probably would've started to wage war against cavjj more than anyone else. He is/was "awfully suspicious" (imo) after his hammer. I probably would've kept my vote on him the entire time too -- like me. Actually, I wouldn't wage a massive war against the player, I would let someone else do the arguing for me, but I would agree and hope my lynch helps the bandwagon fall through. Something like that.

Nobody Special, come on. Put more effort in. We need your readings on the N1 kills and the D2 arguments.

[Bricktoes]

If you think someone is town, why say it out loud? Why not just keep it to yourself and keep observing the situation? You can never be too sure in mafia. They can always slip at some point. Saying you think someone is scum is protown as you point suspicion toward players that others might have missed. But saying you think someone is town is just useless to the town. You are convincing no one and no one will be convinced. All you are doing is, like I said, gaining town points and also possibly these players' trust.

But of course no one will agree with my way of thinking, like always, and will only think I'm more suspicious after this.

Why say it out loud? So people have a clear idea where you stand. So players who you think can help you in your win condition will survive. To fish for reactions. Every single one of these reasons: could motivate anyone of either alignment. You're right, there is uncertainty. There is also uncertainty of scum, and by your reasoning, just as much chance to mislead and just as much reason to stay quiet.

This is a major problem of yours and one you seem unable or unwilling to grasp: describing an action that could be taken by either town or scum and assuming it's scum doing it. That is weak reasoning. Decrying someone for misleading the town when there is no evidence of such is weak reasoning. Do you know why no one agrees with you? You don't make sense. Again: stop playing like this. It is dumb. It helps no one. You've admitted as much. Play better or just stop.

[Bricktoes]

I know it's just a list, but like I've said to dicknose before: cite your arguments.

A list is not an argument.

[Honest Abel]

whilst, why are you not voting for DarkClaymore? He is being obnoxiously scummy. Give me some good reasons tunneling dicknose is more important than questioning/lynching DC. I really don't get it. This guy has enough against him to be lynched three times. The way you are just ignoring that and actually complimenting his posts is really scummy. You are now on my scum list, which looks like this now, from least to most scummy:

I Am Innocent
whilst
DarkClaymore

DC, why should we even listen to your reasoning if it has nothing to do with this game? You're acting scummy because it somehow hypothetically helps you in a game with different rules than ours? Great. I have a feeling your references to fictional/irrelevant games is a nervous tick you develop as scum because it helps you avoid answering questions honestly.

[Honest Abel]

Also, whilst, it looks like the only reason you are against dicknose here is because he put some pressure on you earlier, which is merely reactive. Let it go and move on to something else, if you have the power to do that.

[DarkClaymore]

I refuse go take part in that hypothetical. You know who goes after scum? Everyone. Going after scummy players is not a scumtell.

Then I refuse to answer you question. As long as you don't try to think in this direction then there's nothing for me to explain to you.

why is whilst more scummy than me?

He did something that appeared like indirectly defending me while arguing with Abel. I don't like people defending others when there is no a VERY good reason for that. Especially defending a lynchbait should be out of question. Players should be defending themselves.

Oh man, that's a great reason. I know it's just a list, but like I've said to dicknose before: cite your arguments.

The other points at which he votes for people to lynch are interesting to note, but none of the votes have "meant" anything, except for the vote on cavjj (as I have the second vote against cavjj). Do you get what I'm saying? The vote on wickedestjr didn't amount to anything, nor did the vote on you. It's just a pattern, imo -- his play style probably. I don't think it's anything to lynch him on. Or am I missing the point? Clarify if I am.

Here you are saying how you think most of my the votes are my playstye. Feels like a defense, as weak as it is. Strange how you try to make some of Abel's reasons seem off while you too said that I'm one of the top suspects on your list.

I'm going to assume you put Wickedstjr at the top because of the fact that he could be waiting for us to lynch each other, and is not really missing in action. Am I correct? I'm asking because I've had the same rising suspicion. I don't think it's paranoia.

Still, I would put him at three or four on my list. I still want to hear his thoughts. My top two (yes, still):
1. cavjj
2. DarkClaymore

Also, here you try to outguess my reason and say you quite agree with it.

It feels like an attempt to show that you actually thought that I might be a reasonable town and that Abel was off by accusing me. This can work wonders for you if you are scum. Atm it seems like I'll be lynched. Once I get lynched and flip town, you'll be able to use some of these things you said against Abel in the next day. You can say that "I told him that he rushed too much and that some of his reasons were off".

It also appears like you are trying to please everyone. Both the town by agreeing I'm suspicious, and me by saying we agree about some stuff. That's just scummy.

Actually, I wouldn't wage a massive war against the player, I would let someone else do the arguing for me, but I would agree and hope my lynch helps the bandwagon fall through. Something like that.

And that's what scum usually do. And THAT'S exactly what I was looking for by lynchbait play. And you seem to fit the pattern to some extend with me being that very suspicious player.

DC, why should we even listen to your reasoning if it has nothing to do with this game? You're acting scummy because it somehow hypothetically helps you in a game with different rules than ours? Great. I have a feeling your references to fictional/irrelevant games is a nervous tick you develop as scum because it helps you avoid answering questions honestly.

Again. It has nothing to do with the different rules. It can work perfectly here as well.

[Bricktoes]

I wouldn't wage a massive war against the player, I would let someone else do the arguing for me, but I would agree and hope my lynch helps the bandwagon fall through. Something like that.

Like how you aren't arguing with me but agreeing with Darky's points against me? Good job, scum.

[cavjj]

DC - you're refusing to answer questions now?

[DarkClaymore]

If you think someone is town, why say it out loud? Why not just keep it to yourself and keep observing the situation? You can never be too sure in mafia. They can always slip at some point. Saying you think someone is scum is protown as you point suspicion toward players that others might have missed. But saying you think someone is town is just useless to the town. You are convincing no one and no one will be convinced. All you are doing is, like I said, gaining town points and also possibly these players' trust.

But of course no one will agree with my way of thinking, like always, and will only think I'm more suspicious after this.

Why say it out loud? So people have a clear idea where you stand. So players who you think can help you in your win condition will survive. To fish for reactions. Every single one of these reasons: could motivate anyone of either alignment. You're right, there is uncertainty. There is also uncertainty of scum, and by your reasoning, just as much chance to mislead and just as much reason to stay quiet.

This is a major problem of yours and one you seem unable or unwilling to grasp: describing an action that could be taken by either town or scum and assuming it's scum doing it. That is weak reasoning. Decrying someone for misleading the town when there is no evidence of such is weak reasoning. Do you know why no one agrees with you? You don't make sense. Again: stop playing like this. It is dumb. It helps no one. You've admitted as much. Play better or just stop.

The only legit one here is fishing for reactions. You can't as town trust someone unless he did something OBVIOUSLY protown. And I'm not talking about some random stuff like attacking others which anyone can do. I'm talking abut stuff like successfully building a wagon on scum and actually getting him lynched.

It's true that town could do that as much as scum. Heck, town can do pretty much anything as much as scum. Including suddenly ending D1. But to me it appears as a more scummy thing. Though I think Abel and Whilst aren't both mafia, but I believe one of them is. Actually, not that any of you care, I might change my vote to Whilst latter depending on how he responds.

DC - you're refusing to answer questions now?

What questions? The one that dicknose asked? If he can't think for a second about a hypothetical situation, which is actually HAPPENING right now as there are scum in the game, then there's no point in answering him. He'll just call it stupid.

[Honest Abel]

The main reason dicknose looks town to me is because he went after whilst when whilst said some scummy stuff, and now he's going after DarkClaymore because he's being consistently scummy. He's not stuck on one person, he puts pressure where it's needed. it's the easiest way to judge someone to be town, that I know of. And the reason I'm pointing this out is so you know who I'd want you all to trust once I'm dead.

IAI, cavjj, and NS are just sitting back and watching the drama unfold. Right now it looks like Abel & dicknose vs. DarkClaymore & whilst. I really want to know why whilst is so pro-DarkClaymore since he's easily the scummiest character I've ever played a mafia game with.

[Honest Abel]

whilst, just vote DC already. Here's a wiki page you might find useful:
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Bussing