TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[killerjester]

Can both players show me the breadcrumbs on who they targeted in case they died overnight?

(I can't take credit for this joke buuuuut) I never knew you were a fisherman.

[PeregrineV]

@andrew- since you've been outed, please provide your thoughts, reasonings, etc. behind choosing MoI as your day1 neighbor.

We you aware he was also neighborized by another player the same day?

@Bravo- maybe you're thinking of hider?

[Castle Bravo]

I can understand the issue with two neighborizors in a game, it's a really strong role since it proves that people are town every day even if it dies if it targets scum.

Can both players show me the breadcrumbs on who they targeted in case they died overnight?

Um Neighborizors do nothing of the sort. Masons prove alignment via their role. Neighborizors don't. It is very doubtful there are any breadcrumbs to find given the roles.

Huh? Are you saying they can recruit scum?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Huh? Are you saying they can recruit scum?

Neigbhorizors recruit players to a Neighborhood. No-one in the Neighborhood is alignment confirmed. Town and scum both are fully capable of having a Neighborizor role. I can link to tons of examples as necessary.

[Junpei]

Just to point out, in post 1587 killerjester unvotes when he had no vote up to begin with. Could mean a lot of things, just pointing it out for others to see in case they missed it.

[Castle Bravo]

Huh? Are you saying they can recruit scum?

Neigbhorizors recruit players to a Neighborhood. No-one in the Neighborhood is alignment confirmed. Town and scum both are fully capable of having a Neighborizor role. I can link to tons of examples as necessary.

Oh well that's a stupid role then. They should both recruit someone in each other's neighborhood to prove they're not cult leaders. But cults always lose so who cares? Town can get a lot of silly bad roles.

Let's lynch rodion. He's scummy.

[Banshee]

@MoI: If Andrew is scum, and he is lynched today, does the neighbourhood he initiated disappear? Is there any added value to having a neighbourhood other than the ability to daytalk and share observations about the game in a private setting?

Sorry to ask dumb questions, but I know that in the unconfirmed Mason setups I've played there were actually major drawbacks to discussing with people if they did turn out to be scummy. I'm sure the scum felt the same way about talking to me.

What I'm asking, I guess, is this: Is there any drawback to lynching Andrew today that might not be immediately obvious?

[chkballin]

Huh? Are you saying they can recruit scum?

Neigbhorizors recruit players to a Neighborhood. No-one in the Neighborhood is alignment confirmed. Town and scum both are fully capable of having a Neighborizor role. I can link to tons of examples as necessary.

Oh well that's a stupid role then. They should both recruit someone in each other's neighborhood to prove they're not cult leaders. But cults always lose so who cares? Town can get a lot of silly bad roles.

Let's lynch rodion. He's scummy.

Not lynching Rodion right now, not a threat.

As for the neighborizor talk- this hydra was recruited but not by andrew...we are currently assessing the reads we have on the members of the neighborhood before we talk to them too much.

~

BALLIN

[killerjester]

Just to point out, in post 1587 killerjester unvotes when he had no vote up to begin with. Could mean a lot of things, just pointing it out for others to see in case they missed it.

Uh yup, just now I noticed I forgot to vote silver in #1526. That's what I get for not sleeping enough

[Rainbowdash]

Of course it was obvious that he essentially claimed VT early on, which is that town tell I was harping on all yesterday.

The thing is silver doesn't give me the air of someone who is very attentive to their past posts, and if scum someone who very easily could have decided to claim some power on a whim, and get instant caught.

Thats why him being off the Zinger wagon was a massive towntell, and if ever combined with an eventual VT claim which after the early posts today we are getting regardless of his alignment, would make him one of my top town reads. Would the trap have worked if he is scum?

No clue, but I wanted it there just incase, which leaves me a little peeved that ponies have gone and wrecked it.

The bolded I find not very believable. I’m sorry but setting it up as some grand 'Tarp' on the off chance he was dumb enough to ‘forget’ he claimed Vanilla to catch him later when you could have lynched him over a claimed Power Role is just pointless.

Its silver. His play comes off as overly impulsive and disjointed, in a situation where he gets wagoned to a claim, its the exact type of person who I could see doing something stupid as scum.

You know what town normally does when they see two town reads fighting?

The STOP THE FIGHT by trying to prove why both people are town to everypony else, or at least prove why their pick is more likely scum.

You did neither, but just sat back the entire time.

I’ve bolded the part that I find laughably scummy.

1. I’d love to see examples Day 1 of ‘proving Towniness’ that actually have any credibility.
2. You are knocking someone who didn’t push a wagon on Town Power Role while you yourself did? Fantastic work their Chief.

[/quote]

So you have never had a town read day one that you were willing to defend? Hard to believe there since being able to read town is just as important as being able to read scum. Yes I think someone is scum who wasn't on the Zinger lynch yesterday, is this your way of saying that everypony who is scum was on Zinger wagon?

I will no questions asked vote andrew over silver here.

[Castle Bravo]

I could consent to an Andrew lynch, I don't understand anything he's saying, and his reasoning for recruiting MoI seems psychotzophrenic. Does he want to chat with someone he thinks is town, or someone he thinks is scummy?

I'm confused by chkball's insistance that rodion is not a threat. Does chkball think Rodion is town? Or does he think that he's scum? It's very confusing. I think he's a very confused person.

[silverbullet999]

-Dave

You know, in that game you were actually worse. You self-hammered as Town, putting the game into MYLO... that's not exactly something to be proud of having meta for. If you'd no-lynched, or let the deadline expire, it would have went to 5-2.. better odds at least, combined with the NL and the mafia lynch... I simply can't see the logic in your play that game. You know for a fact you are Town, and by self-hammering you gave the Scum an advantage. -_-

I don't think anyone in that game thought out the MYLO thing til later and I'm not gonna be a liar, I told em straight up I'd self hammer if at L-1 and everyone was seeking said lynch. All that would have ended up happening really is a no lynch occurring and then either me or shotty getting lynched the next day. Really no advantage not given either way bud. Regardless what is the point of this post... besides just saying I'm a bad player... which I won't comment on either way.

-Banshee
In regards to your wall vote post
Same as I stated before.

Where is the iso you did of me or was the vca all that it was?

-MOI

Trying to look for scum behavior in the wagons by looking for how scum wanted to save the claimed Town PR by wagoning you isn’t very fruitful or even logical, IMO.

I thought we were talking about the swing from me back to zinger? Upon which it's scum wanting to save me to push the PR lynch again which again benefits scum much more even if they felt I claimed VT or not.

I don’t know what you are even trying to say in the bolded portion. I’ll respond to it if you clarify.

What I'm saying is, if scum lynches a PR, it's a much better move for them. Instead of lynching someone else and having to nightkill said PR. While this is obvious the point is scum pushed the PR lynch hard, steam died on the PR wagon, the lynch came to me which is better than nothing for scum, but my wagon dies and they see the PR wagon build up again and swing to it to get the PR lynched. If this hadn't occured, the PR could possibly have been the nk where all sorts of things could have gone wrong for them. That's the point... There's a pretty big reason for scum to have swung back onto said zinger wagon.

1. Way to put words in my mouth. When did I say I “know” you are scum or say that I was waiting for L-1?

1. It's more or less your attitude... but not in a negative way. It's like you sorta act overconfident but I don't mean it in an insulting way or what not.

-Killer
I apologize for being repetitive but you are missing the point of the question. You stated this early this day.

Considering how suspicious everyone finds him, I feel he's harboring his vote by placing it on Nero. With the classic, "Just following my D1 play!" as his sole excuse.

and I have asked, What's changed from D1? in post 1569 Please ignore everything further that has happened today when answering this.

-Shotty
I want answers when you get backkk.

----

I'm gonna take a look at andrews iso... I'd still heavily prefer Nero but I'll look into andrew tomorrow and see if I think he's playing his typical "self" or not.

[Banshee]

-Banshee
In regards to your wall vote post
Same as I stated before.

Where is the iso you did of me or was the vca all that it was?

The ISO I did on you led to the chronological description of how the votes fell, who cast them and what your reaction was throughout. Your ISO is very scummy imo and most of what I identified had already been pointed out; I did feel like posting it wouldn't really give any new information to anyone. To me, your sacrifice play was the sole reason to consider you as town based on your ISO. The fact that you've done that before as town, ironically, makes me believe it more likely to be a scum gambit here since you immediately referred to your meta as proof of your towniness. This is especially likely imo given the exact chronology I lined out and the apparent lessening of your enthusiasm for being lynched as the prospect became more concrete and possible. So I posted what I thought was original and informative and refrained from repeating the same comments that everyone else had already made and that were probably painfully obvious by this point in the game.

tl;dr: You're very scummy. I think Andrew is scummier though. Hence my vote.

[silverbullet999]

-Banshee

The fact that you've done that before as town, ironically, makes me believe it more likely to be a scum gambit here since you immediately referred to your meta as proof of your towniness.

For the third (maybe second?) time this is not true at all. I only referred to my "meta" in the sense of attacking shotty...

There is a reason why I put sections in my post ya know... and label them with different people.

[silverbullet999]

EBWOP
-Banshee
Also post the iso of me anyway, throw it in a spoiler. It's easier to have the whole thing thrown in a post if it's a culmination of what you agree with so far in regards to me or what not.

[Meransiel]

Ah, almost forgot.

VOTE: silver

I'm slightly confused as to why scum would WANT to neighbor MoI. That's why I'm steering clear of andrew for now.

[Banshee]

EBWOP
-Banshee
Also post the iso of me anyway, throw it in a spoiler. It's easier to have the whole thing thrown in a post if it's a culmination of what you agree with so far in regards to me or what not.

I don't know what you mean by this, but I didn't keep the ISO notepad file since I then turned it into the chronological account of your behaviour surrounding your martyr play. Do you have something you especially want addressed regarding your posts that hasn't been addressed sufficiently so far in your opinion?

As for the meta, you commented that you liked to play martyr or something to that effect (it's late and I'm tired, so I may not have the precise quote correct) and that's what I'm referring to. I have no idea what you're talking about with Shotty and I don't rely on meta to scumhunt because it really isn't a reliable method as far as I can see. If I remember correctly, it was essentially a comment that the tactic had worked for you as town in the past. That doesn't mean you're town now, though, even though it seemed you were trying to imply that without outright saying it.

Do you know why people are voting Andrew right now? Have you read his recent exchange with MoI? I don't understand your reaction to his wagon.

[Junpei]

I think that it is scummy that silver asks for a typed out investigation of his ISO that will provide no new evidence. It doesn't seem to make any sense as to why it should matter much at all to silver is what I'm saying, if he's town. Silver you should be scum hunting, discussing cases against you is a passive thing not an active thing. Prove you are town with future actions, not endless debate over the past that you won't win.

@Meransiel, why wouldn't they want to neighborize MoI?

[andrew94]

firstly, banshee what do you mean 'this'

secondly, david, you can do ANYTHING you like, but not misunderstand me.
i clearly stated that i asked jason this question: can scum neighbouriser( ie the other) recruit their own scum buddies.
the answer was yes.
the people i recruit cannot recruit. only i can recruit. get that?
the point i was trying to make was that moi said 'you waited so long to recruit you are more likely to scum'./
i am saying that it is actually easier to recruit someone as a scum neighbouriser than a town neighbouriser cos he can just invite one of his bros. moi might even be his bro. moi has stated that both times, the other neighbouiser invited as soon as possible

im not gonna say the terms of my role now.
the reasons for recruiting moi will also not be revealed.

@everyone you know how you demanded junpei's track. and he said vezok. what if vezok said he did go somewhere. who would you believe.

This is scummy strirring the pot. You’ve asking us to take sides in a theoretical scenario that hasn’t happened. Vezok and Junpei did not contradict each other.

im not 'stirring' the pot. i remember soeone saying 'if vezok says something else, junpei hangs'.

ok so moi outed me. cool. after wanting more votes on pappum.

Wanting more votes on another scummy candidate doesn’t mean I shouldn’t do what I think is best for Town. And at this stage I’m doubting very much you are Town. So I wanted to directly post the inforamtion.

fair enough

compare that to my posts in the thread

Are you asking me to compare them to the QT thread? I’m not clear on your point here.

in the game thread. my other game threads. all my QT threads. the 'lurk' as you call it, is not lurk. its coming on once a day

lol whats wrong with that

So as theortical Town Neighborizer you’d rather skip the ability to take a Town read into the QT to bounce reads off of Day 1 and instead want to hold off? Unless your ability is more restricted than you have indicated I don’t see a Town reason for doing that.

its not more restricted than i said. iwas thinking thinking thinking and thought you. as a theoritcal scum neighborizer, would instead grab a scum buddy or someone that lurks, or a crap guy? i noticed your good play in our vengeful game ages ago. theortically i wouldnt get some strong playes?

Scum on the other hand would have to balance the danger of bringing a Town player into the QT and risk getting fingered for play on two fronts (Thread and QT)

no they dont... how so.

because i dont even know what that is.i have scumhunting in the thread. you never intiated any reads on any players privately. all my reads i posted on the game

I didn’t initiate reads as a means of testing you. The other Neighborizer did offer reads up unbidden. You did not.

ok... did he then post those reads in the game thread?

i had a feeling i was the less town

So instead of trying to demonstrate through Pro-Town actions you just asked instead?

pro town is not town. if everyone acts pro town, who do you lynch. scum act pro town.

same as why i didnt wanna day recruit fast. and bro i asked jason and he said you could invite anyone. i then asked if one was scum, whether he could invite his scumbuddies. he said yea. hello??

Hello whut? You are the Neighborizer. You are the ONLY one who can invite someone to the QT. Why would you even be concerned about being able to invite a scum-buddy unless you are scum?

see my reply above to david

read again

I did read. You said, paraphrased “I saw something the other Neighborizer said that was a scum slip and implicated Player Y as scum with them. So I recruited Player Y”. In the same QT post (36 BTW) you said to the effect of “I believe you are scummy for what the other Neighborizor said”.

Why you didn’t just recruit a Town read of yours is beyond me.

i have no main town reads. i considered grabbing a null read, but i wanted to grab that particular guy to see what he said etc

@junpei what the hell is 1 2 and 3 referring to?
@chk, does that neighbour group have moi in it. it sounded like there were another group


btw the bolded parts are mine

[Junpei]

junpei seriously. hes first post. he just made a general statement that looked like he was doing something when he was not. that so hard to get?

1) YOU SAID WAFFLING. Jesus, not that he said he'd do something and didn't. In fact, he didn't say that he'd do anything in that post at all. This response post by you is scummier than if you had said "I'll tell you tonight in mafia chat, Silver".

im pretty sure i was attempting to say next time someone claims pr.

2) bullshit, you never implied anywhere anything about the very next PR claim, or the next PR claim in general. Scum points.

Junpei, your post 1527, where u find all these examples. i notice you missed out thadmiral and some others who did the same thing

2.5(I am adding this one): Bull fucking shit. I mentioned thadmiral, who did I miss?

@everyone you know how you demanded junpei's track. and he said vezok. what if vezok said he did go somewhere. who would you believe.

3) That is the most idiotic question I've ever heard. That's saying "HEY GUYS U KNO DAT GUY U PUT ON L-2 ND SHIT WEL IF HE SED SOMETHIN AND IT WAS PROOOFED WONG BAI VEZOK WEL WOULD YOU LYNCH VEZOK HUE?." If Vezok came out and said my report was wrong there is no doubt in my mind I'd be insta-lynched. The good news is that Vezok would be the next day.

NOW YOU KNOW.

You better not take 24 hours to respond, scum.

[Junpei]

Also you don't log on once a day andrew. Or if you do you certainly don't post in the thread once a day. A quick look of your ISO shows this.

[Meransiel]

@Meransiel, why wouldn't they want to neighborize MoI?

Well....let's just say that he's not that generous with town reads. A scum neighborizer would want...allies to begin with, or maybe add someone MoI has a scumread on and the MoI later. Dunno, it seems suboptimal to me.

[vezokpiraka]

Huh? Are you saying they can recruit scum?

Neigbhorizors recruit players to a Neighborhood. No-one in the Neighborhood is alignment confirmed. Town and scum both are fully capable of having a Neighborizor role. I can link to tons of examples as necessary.

Oh well that's a stupid role then. They should both recruit someone in each other's neighborhood to prove they're not cult leaders. But cults always lose so who cares? Town can get a lot of silly bad roles.

Let's lynch rodion. He's scummy.

Cults always lose????

Pray tell were are you coming from?

[Pappums Leather Jacket]

@MOI:

What is your read on Rodion right now?

[Meransiel]

@MOI:

What is your read on Rodion right now?

I would like to know this too.