Newbie 1136: DarthYoshi's Dystopia of Death (Fin--who won?!)

[theamatuer]

CS: stop tunneling me.
My first game was incomplete since I was subbed in near the end. And my second game got me lynched on day 1. I wouldn't call that 2 whole games. I bet you didn't read my links at all. I like being truthful since lying more or less leads to getting lynched after being found out. That's why I self-voted and that's why I refuse to selfhammer.
And I refuse to OMGUS vote you, so stop bugging me.
For Ghostlin, the only reason you're not voting him is because he's helping to vote me.
I had a full analysis written, and then my computer ****ed up. I'll rewrite it when I feel like it.
EBWON: Hi, Johog!!
post more so I can do an analysis of you

[Johhog]

I will post more once I get my role PM.

Hello amatuer, and an extra big hello to hiplop. I've missed you all those 10 minutes we were not in the same game. <3

[theamatuer]

I should really get to sleep too. It's 2 AM here.

[Johhog]

/confirm

Australian, eh? Swede here, it's 8:15 pm here, or as we say in Sweden, 20:15. Alright, enough fluff, I'll go reread.

[theamatuer]

Oh yeah.
I'm at L-2 now, so please don't lynch me at least until I wake up and post my character analysis.

[hiplop]

Dont lynch TheAm at all. Ghosty is the scum

[Johhog]

Well, I won't post one big catch-up post but I will post as I read and find interesting things (hopefully). Stay tuned.

[Johhog]

1) What alignment and role do you prefer, and why?

I like pro-town roles more, as I've a hard time lying and love to take out the bad guys.

2) Would you lynch lurkers?

Never. It's terribad to policy lynch a lurker, much better to wait for the replacing.

3) When lynching, do you rely on your gut or your analysis?

Nearly only gut, which makes me a highly unusual player. Still I usually catch scum. Basically I use gut to find scum and logic to convince others, because unfortunately "It's gut" is usually not an acceptable answer on why one person is scummy.

4) What is your stanch on using meta?

In non-newbie games with more experienced players it is nearly the only way to catch scum. In newbie games however it's possible to find scumtells that are null when they're coming from a more experienced player. There is however a risk that meta will backfire horribly and basically create a quick mislynch, as in [REDACTED].

[Johhog]

Oh, forgot the role part in the questions. Add this:

As for roles I'm not sure yet, I'm still fairly new. PRs is fun because you influence games more than as VT. It is however hard for me because you have to hide something, which I suck at. Therefore I suppose VT is my favourite role, as you can be completely honest.

[Johhog]

Page 2:

Also your Avatars look pretty similar to me, so if ConSpiracy should have a vote for his Avatar, why shouldn't you have one for yours?

Why do you seem too keen to jump on a RVS vote and question it immediately.

IGMEOY: BKWN

This is a strange post imo. Ibarra seems to quickly jump on a very innocent remark, which may even be a joke.

5) What's your timezone?
6) What is your posting style: A few lengthy posts or a lot of small posts?
7) How much do you expect to post in this game?

5) GMT+1, now during the DST GMT+2.
6) Many small posts, as you'll soon see.
7) At least a couple of times a day if I manage to find something interesting.

You don't bring people to L-1 less you really suspect they're scum. Up to L-2 is fine--and early wagons are encouraged to see how folks react. L-1 encourages hammers, accidental and not, and we do NOT want Day 1 end early even if we catch scum through RVS/RQS.

I don't agree. As long as they're rare, L-1 wagons can be quite good, and while you shouldn't put someone at L-1 without

some

suspicion you don't have to be willing to lynch them imo. That is in theory. In practice L-1 wagons are usually scummy (and by most players frowned upon) so unless you have a good reason for it, don't put someone at L-1 in a Newbie.

Hello, I'm new to this game... and I still don't know how to go about it(what to write, etc) I think I will be the least talkative among everyone, I can feel it already XD

And also, Soulblade, what a random reason to vote me. </3?

Hm, this post appears to be from someone who want to look at a newb (and also someone who cares a lot about what other people think about them), and I have no clue why.

Let's find that out.

Vote: Ghostlin

:goodwagoning:

It is because the IC's are supposed to help the newbies get accustomed to the game. The IC would then start to have a sense of reliability around him, and thus if you attack him, the newbies would turn towards you instead.
I'll keep my vote as it is.

You don't want to be accused much, do you?

It is because the IC's are supposed to help the newbies get accustomed to the game. The IC would then start to have a sense of reliability around him, and thus if you attack him, the newbies would turn towards you instead.
I'll keep my vote as it is.

I understand that point, and it is very, very wrong. Here is why: there are 9 players in the game, with roles assigned randomly. Ergo, everyone, IC included, has exactly 2/9 chance of being scum. So if IC does something that you would be suspicious of someone else for doing, be suspicious of him. Because on the case that he actually IS scum, the argument you just presented will win his happy ass the game. So don't think that way. Think along the lines of, Ghostlin is the most experienced player here, so he is the best at hiding that he is scum, therefore he is worthy of suspicion on the line of reasoning you just presented.

Also, I'm not saying that he is scum yet. At this point I don't know who is and who isn't. I'm just saying don't stand behind him on the basis that he is IC, because as far as determining whether or not he is scum, that don't mean jack.

:goodposting:

[Johhog]

Disagree. Off course having scum quickhammer means that we loose a townie with a high chance of a second one, but that means that we will lynch scum next day and possibly town at night, leaving town with at worst 4:1, at best 6:1. Coping with 4:1 with knowledge of a scumbuddy and still having the possibility of town PRs existing

with

information of two nights is a lot better than 2:9 with no information yet and only assured PRs.

But what if town quickhammers by mistake? I've experienced a game wherein a townie accidentally quickhammered and thus was lynched the following day. My point is that we should avoid going into L-1 just on a simple, "let's see how they react" to avoid accidents like what happened to the game I was playing in. We should only get someone to L-1 when we're sure that the target is suspicious enough to warrant a possible lynch.

And this is a lesson for every town: Do not quickhammer! If you are voting for somebody always check if he isn't accidentally lynched when voting.

I cannot stress this point enough. Always use the Preview feature. Mafiascum sadly doesn't have the notification for when someone ninja's you.

No, normally I post whenever I'm online and somebody else posts, so I do take a lot of the thread. That's in other forums of course.
And I got lynched in day 1 on other games as well, so I'm kind apprehensive about it.

It's fine to hate being lynched Day 1, but do not try to deter people from doing so with the promise of activity. Activity =/= Being Town

Hm, interesting exchange between Ibarra and ConSpiracy here, unfortunately I don't know what to think of it. There is however an anti-ninja feature.

Con's eagerness to promote folks to L-1 early seems to be partially dissonant to his 'Don't Quickhammer' stance. (Reasoning: L-1 increases the chance of quickhammering---reason why you avoid it in RVS.)

Day one is the most important day for newbie games. More scum blowouts happen from rushing the process than not.

Theam's stance seems to be more focused on survival (at least past Day 1) versus more important concerns--making sure town has enough information to go on, for instance

before

you get lynched is more important. In English: while you should fight against your lynch (if you're Town, you're fighting for the only confirmed townie in the game, if you're Scum, well...you don't want to lose) if you're VT,

don't be afraid to stick your neck out.

You may get lynched, but since bandwagon analysis is a BIG part of this game...

BKWM: Your argument is something of a logical fallacy why I could be scum, but it's RVS anyway. Also, if there's a 2/9 chance of being scum, there's a 7/9 chance of being Town, with at least a 1/9 of being a town PR in a 2x4.

Out of the things I've pointed out---the inclination towards self presevation is the MOST scummy, so I will:

Unvote.

Vote: Theam

I don't like this vote for some reason. It doesn't seem to warrant a vote.

Unvote.

Vote: Theam

theam?

unvote.
vote: ConSpiracy

lets start the L-2

This however is lolno. Reckless bandwagoning and omgusing.

Great discussion, I learnt a lot about voting and mafia games overall. Sorry I wasn't posting - I wasn't feeling well yesterday.

Fine, but a quick ISO tells me that he hasn't said anything particularly useful since. We need to get this guy to start contributing.

I'm trying to get an L-2 on him, which then hopefully we can pry an acceptable defense out of him, like I said earlier.

What is he supposed to say in his defence, as this seems to be merely a random bandwagoning vote?

After 3 pages, theamatuer is shady, Ghostlin is shady, AeRyung is shady and Soulblade is shady. Oh gosh.

[Johhog]

Page 4:

@Soulblade: if you want to look for people trying too hard to blend in, I would suggest people such as yourself or Morthas or paradox, who haven't posted enough for any sort of even semi-effective analysis. Although I will grant that it is too early in the game for that to be an effective argument, and that you have been posting, and that they have legitimate reasons for not posting. I am very actively scum-hunting, although granted, I am not too terribly good at it. Yet. That's what practice is for.

@theamatuer: you are at L-2 as well, good sir. So here is my opinion on you in hopes of hearing a satisfactory defense out of you: You seem to want to be dodging suspicion by pointing the finger at everyone else, and by attempting to get bandwagons going on everyone else, while at the same time, you are at L-2, and have not done

anything

other than barely acknowledge that you were voted for at all. If you weren't already at L-2, I would vote for you. As is,

IGMEOY, theamatuer

.

@AeRyung: I would side with Ghostlin in that you were being silly in not actually voting for me, but now I'm at L-2 anyway, so I would appreciate it if right now you used your vote elsewhere, so that we are ensured a full and in depth discussion on Day 1.

@Morthas&paradox: thoughts? even if you have no suspicions, you're opinions can only help us find the scum. when you get the time, paradox, no pressure. Enjoy your family time.

Aye, I like BKWM's posting and I like it much. He is as very town after 4 pages and I don't really see the case against him.

EBWOP
UNVOTE: AeRyung
VOTE: Morthas for only having one post.

Good call there I guess, but if it's intended to be a pressure vote you shouldn't have said that you voted him just because he only had posted once.

I said I find you suspicious because of your elaborateless reasoning as to why you voted for the people you did. But then again, there isn't much to elaborate without a good amount of info. Though, your last post has increased my FoS on you. You are quite aggitated by my post of suspicion, I sensed an irritation in your writing. Here are some reasons why I suspect you. First, you lost your composure to my FoS. Second, you revealed your "plan" (Why?). Third, when you said "unless you are scum, in which case feel free to get so pissed you cant type straight." It sounds like an attempted provocation, or alternitavely, a way to get FoS off of yourself, desperately.

I can see that being truth.
VOTE: BMW


I was going to point out that explaining your plan makes it loose it's effectiveness but there have been enough people who have already did so.

@Soulblade: if you want to look for people trying too hard to blend in, I would suggest people such as yourself or Morthas or paradox, who haven't posted enough for any sort of even semi-effective analysis. Although I will grant that it is too early in the game for that to be an effective argument, and that you have been posting, and that they have legitimate reasons for not posting. I am very actively scum-hunting, although granted, I am not too terribly good at it. Yet. That's what practice is for.

Trying to deflect, are we?


You are L-2 now, BMW.

OUCH what is this? All the votes on BMKW so far has been terribad.

To morthas: don't rely on your gut feelings, or at the very least don't tell anybody that. Try to set facts to go along your suspicions, since that gives a greater amount of believability to them. At the very least, that makes it look less like a scumtell.
...Actually, I'm screwing myself over here, aren't I?
Also, I'm creating bandwagons to help others get defenses, since I myself do not find anything suspicious about anybody YET. I'll be more aggresive later, for now I'll help at bandwagons, even myself's later to get more evidence.
Of course, that is if self-voting does not cause being Slew-By-Darth's-Sith-Dinosaur-Lightsaber (aka modkilled)

Wut?
Give me a quote about so i know what you are talking about please :/

This. Were you by any chance drunk when you posted that theamatuer?
[LATER EDIT: Wait, did he just say he wants to help on his own wagon? This is strange as hell, and I was almost going to write it off as newbtown behaviour, but I've fallen for that trick before and won't do it so quick again.]

[Johhog]

Not really feeling like completing the last five pages now, guess I'll do it tomorrow.

[theamatuer]

OK, analysis time:
Character Analysis (Scummy level from 1-10. 1 least 10 most)
Aeryung:pulls the noob card out, both directly and indirectly. Usually after being attacked. Possible mistake. 4
ConSpiracy:Tunneller of thematuer. 7
Ghostlin:2nd ta tunneller. posts little content in general for an IC. 8
hiplop:Apparently helpful. Mostly attacks Ghostlin and ConSpiracy. possible scumpartener with ta. 3
Johog: To early to be sure. 5 for Null
Morthas: can't tell. More suspicious than not though. 6
Soulblade: Didn't post since mistake. Very possible scum. 9
stels: Mostly counterarguments against ta. null. 5
thamatuer: Self-voting. Very Defensive in the beginning. jumps on bandwagon's in the middle. Self-vote. Becomes offensive towards SB. Probable scum. 7
This is being as objective as possible.

[AeRyung]

Hm, this post appears to be from someone who want to look at a newb (and also someone who cares a lot about what other people think about them), and I have no clue why.

to look like a noob? yeah because obviously I am one. But later throughout the game, with a rude awakening by ConSipiracy, I realized even a noob could possibly be a scum. Yes I did care of what others thought of me because thats just how I am, in real life as well. But only the first meeting though, as you can see ^^. I assure you, all of your suspicions on me is a waste of time.

AeRyung making me feel insignificant! I think i have more experience than Conspiracy

Those were just some questions that popped up in mind as I read their posts. And you are absolutely NOT insignificant!

Guys: CS is town, hes just wrong about ghostlin. (tehe)

At first I didn't want to believe it because he was backing ghostlin up so much, but I think he was only blinded and is now starting to see why you've been questioning him all this time.

Honestly: scum tend towards certain behaviors and motivations that town does not.

When I scum hunt, I tend to go 'is this behavior protown (or likely meant with protown intentions)?'

Self voting isn't. Going roughly 'please don't lynch me' at the beginning of the game when you should be latching on to things to start the scum hunt is not protown.

The bolded, I believe that is how a scum tries to think as well.

Paradox: Seriously, dude. Who do you think is scum?

Why does his opinion even matter? Considering he's only posted like once every 2-3 days. And the last, like CS said, hasnt signed on in 4 days 19 hours.

Stels: Your last post was about how you didn't like my ISO and the fact that I've ridden TM for self-voting (that's not all I've accused him of by any means), yet your vote is there.

Do you think TM is more or less likely to be scum than me, and why?

The bolded, what do you wish to achieve by asking that question?

[theamatuer]

Possible scumpartners:
theamatuer-hiplop.
Ghostlin-SB.
SB-stels
ta-morthas
NOTE: these are placed considering the possibilty of the first being scum if the other is known scum.
Also. How did I get the Goon title?

[theamatuer]

EBWON: decided to add CS-Ghostlin scumpartner above SB-stels after reading Aeryung's post.
It would help if others did a character analysis/summary as well.

[hiplop]

Ghostlin/anyone is a combo. AKA hes scum. Kill him with fire

[hiplop]

Me and CS can take care of you guys anyway; do not need a scum IC telling you what to do!!! I don't have much else to say, so im jokingly putting my point across

[ConSpiracy]

All right, I know I am only showing suspicions on theam at the moment (a.k. you call tunneling), but really, read his posts.

OK, analysis time:
Character Analysis (Scummy level from 1-10. 1 least 10 most)
Aeryung:pulls the noob card out, both directly and indirectly. Usually after being attacked. Possible mistake. 4
ConSpiracy:Tunneller of thematuer. 7
Ghostlin:2nd ta tunneller. posts little content in general for an IC. 8
hiplop:Apparently helpful. Mostly attacks Ghostlin and ConSpiracy. possible scumpartener with ta. 3
Johog: To early to be sure. 5 for Null
Morthas: can't tell. More suspicious than not though. 6
Soulblade: Didn't post since mistake. Very possible scum. 9
stels: Mostly counterarguments against ta. null. 5
thamatuer: Self-voting. Very Defensive in the beginning. jumps on bandwagon's in the middle. Self-vote. Becomes offensive towards SB. Probable scum. 7
This is being as objective as possible.

Is making an objective view? What could we do with that? What other reasons than extremely WIFOM is there to give himself a 7 for scum and even worse, giving himself a connection with hiplop?

theamatuer-hiplop.
ta-morthas

What use is this?

At first I didn't want to believe it because he was backing ghostlin up so much, but I think he was only blinded and is now starting to see why you've been questioning him all this time.

It's like you just copied hiplop in this.

Why does his opinion even matter? Considering he's only posted like once every 2-3 days. And the last, like CS said, hasnt signed on in 4 days 19 hours.

And here you are trying to come up with something new to incriminate Ghostlin. But this whole point is bad. His opinion

does

matter, because we wanted to know his stance in convo's and find out if he is scum or not. That's not going to happen if he doesn't post.

Me and CS can take care of you guys anyway; do not need a scum IC telling you what to do!!! I don't have much else to say, so im jokingly putting my point across

You know that ICs, wether their aligment is scum or town, should guide the town in the right direction, right?

Anyways, I need to back off a bit from theam. Because of his scummy posts (and the failure of him being wagoned) I am constantly drawn back to him and am indeed tunneling a bit. I am going to find out if there are some other players that are scummy. I think I will start with AeRyung. His last post seemed far too much like scum trying to blend in.

[theamatuer]

Even if Ghostlin is scum, some people are more likely to be partners than others based on their actions.
EBWON: My objective view is to place facts together as unbiased as possible, so others can use it no matter how I turn up. Hiplop is obviously protecting me, so if I am scum, then Hiplop is also scum. All your suspicions are true unfortunately, and saying otherwise is incorrect.
However, since I know I am a Townie, the above is utter bulls***

Thank you for not tunneling me anymore.
Also, why does it seem that when a person seems to get actually scummy, they stop posting altogether?
(talking bout soulblade and possibly BWKM)

[hiplop]

You know that ICs, wether their aligment is scum or town, should guide the town in the right direction, right?

Yes. Currently the IC in 2 games

[AeRyung]

I don't feel that CS is scum anymore because for a townie, a lurker is just annoying and not at all advtantageous to our circumstances, and he has proven that by suggesting paradox gets replaced. But for a scum, a lurker can be used as a decoy. A lurker can very much be accused of being scummy, therefore, either they'd get lynched by town and if not, the scums would not have to waste a kill on night 1(considering lurkers are not scum themselves) and rather use their kill on a life threatening townie. Which is why I feel that Ghostlin was trying to get an answer out of paradox before he could possibly get replaced(though eventually, it did happen).

@stels: I do understand that you are not BKWM but that doesn't justify any of the accusations against him. Your aggressive manner towards theamatuer because of his accusations seemed like a OMGUS more than anything(aside from the obvious scum tells). I believe if you knew that BKWM was innocent, you would have done a little more regarding the matter instead of just forcing a clean slate onto others, because in all honesty, that would absolutely be helpful for town.

As for theamatuer, I feel that you have made decisions in this game that is easily targetted as being scum. I'm a little wary about you but only because there were fingers pointed at you from the experienced, and it is in my nature not to look away from their suspicions.

It's like you just copied hiplop in this.

Ehm... I am stating what I have understood from the situation. It is true...*looks around* isn't it??

And here you are trying to come up with something new to incriminate Ghostlin. But this whole point is bad. His opinion does matter, because we wanted to know his stance in convo's and find out if he is scum or not. That's not going to happen if he doesn't post.

You would obviously see it that way because you still believe Ghostlin is innocent(or are you defending your partner?). I see things in another perspective because I think he one out of the two scums.

You know that ICs, wether their aligment is scum or town, should guide the town in the right direction, right?

So, an IC's duty is to guide the town in the right direction(to him) even if he is scum? That seems rather hard. I am still waiting on Ghostlin's response to my question what he wants to achieve as an IC in this current game.

BTW, ConSpiracy, you can ask me anything you want. Interrogate me however much you want. I'm just going to forewarn you now that it's going to be a waste of time. But, I will gladly be of assistance to you and your search.

[hiplop]

So, an IC's duty is to guide the town in the right direction(to him) even if he is scum? That seems rather hard. I am still waiting on Ghostlin's response to my question what he wants to achieve as an IC in this current game.

They can't lie about game mechanics/theory/when its right to no lynch etc etc. Thats why Im going after Ghostlin, the true stuff he posts about the game; doesn't match up with the way he is playing. Theres a definite change in attitude when hes talking in theoreticals, something scum does all the fucking time.

[AeRyung]

Team Ghostlin or Team Hiplop? IC vs. IC... this is intense folks. Pick your hero wisely!