Newbie 1138 - Game Over! Town Win!

[Honest Abel]

DC is pointing out how whilst is scummy for being his teammate. I love it.

[DarkClaymore]

DC is pointing out how whilst is scummy for being his teammate. I love it.

Why did you suddenly decide that it's DC & whilst rather than DC & IAI?
Just strange that you suddenly make the active player scum and the lurker innocent.

[Honest Abel]

whilst has more of a connection to you at the moment than IAI ever had. IAI is scummy in his own right, and I don't think I can ever let that go, but I know you're scum and there seems to be a better connection between you and whilst than you and IAI.

[Bricktoes]

Giving reasons I know no one will follow seem to be the best method. You can't argue with the fact it's working. AT LEAST say you agree with this.

Ugh.

[Bricktoes]

Didn't you understand from what I was saying earlier?

LOL

[Bricktoes]

What I proposed was a method to clear as many townies as possible during D1.

But saying you think someone is town is just useless to the town. You are convincing no one and no one will be convinced. All you are doing is, like I said, gaining town points and also possibly these players' trust.

lingol

[Honest Abel]

I love the worldview that DC would have us believe: the scummier he is, the more protown he is.

This is bologna. Why aren't the lurkers having any of this fresh, delicious bologna?

[Honest Abel]

I would continue making the case that DC is scummy, except it's only going to prove that he's town.

[Bricktoes]

The strategy worked. You can't deny that. I seriously don't get what's your problem.

Your strategy: "found" one scum, lynched no scum, left you without credibility, annoying.
The town's strategy: found three scum, lynched three scum, has various values for crebility and bearability.

[Honest Abel]

UNVOTE: DarkClaymore, Just so the hypothetical/long-shot IAI/cavjj team can't hammer overnight.

[whilst]

Abel, who do you want to see lynched at the conclusion of Day 2?

Assume that Nothing Special isn't going to post anytime soon.

[Honest Abel]

Probably DarkClaymore. I'm going to give it one more read to make sure. But that guy is ridiculous.

[Honest Abel]

I mean, I think we'd have to be pretty fuckin' stupid to let that guy off the hook. And the fact that he only became unraveled after we began prodding him makes his "I chose to be scummy on purpose" strategy look like nonsense.

dicknose, you read that game he linked? What do you think? Is he doing the same crap here? Is he just an extremely anti-town townie?

[Nobody Special]

Hi.

I didn't do a proper introductory post as I've been rather swamped the last couple of days, so here you go with that now:

I'm you're replacement IC, and I will be pointing out things that need pointing out (as far as gameplay, site meta, etc.) as we go along. That said, remember that I have just as much chance of being town or scum as any of you.

I would also like to point out that I have been in this game less than 48 hours. While I am very glad for the level of activity here (some Newbie Games just drag on

forever....

), I have to tell you that catching up on

12

14

15 pages takes a

huge

chunk of uninterrupted time, and that's hard to come by during the week for me.

After I'm all caught up, I can participate more regularly, as I work from home and am pretty much online constantly. It's just that during the initial reading of the thread, it's pointless to comment on unfolding drama such as has been happening here in the last day or so.

That said, I'm going to have some thoughts posted in about half an hour or so.

Also, I'd like to caution players against talking about ongoing games in any capacity (you know who you are). It is one of the stricter rules on this site.

Here, have some bonus thoughts up to about page 6:

I'm also just going to point this out now since it's fairly obvious and it's bound to come out anyway. Let's compare both day 1 bandwagons:

Honest Abel (4):

I Am Innocent

,

Dark Claymore

,

BBmolla

,

cavjj

BBmolla (5):

Scumhunter

, Honest Abel,

I Am Innocent

,

Dark Claymore

,

cavjj

Well, since we obv don't have a 3-man scumteam, at the most, two of those bolded above are scum. cavjj is pretty town to me,, based primarily on post #139.

This post is just ...I'm not sure. Ludicrous? While yes, it's true that the IC is killed many a N1, sometimes Town ICs do live quite a while. Unless you can point to specific things that Wicked did (or that I may or may not do), stop pushing your pet theory as Gospel Truth.

[Nobody Special]

Abel, who do you want to see lynched at the conclusion of Day 2?

Assume that Nothing Special isn't going to post anytime soon.

Oh, and please: My name is

Nobody

Special.

I'm rather finicky about that.

[Nobody Special]

Dicknose is asking about confidence levels.....

everyone

But we aren't all in the same boat here...
For example I'm quite close to lynch so... I don't feel too confident as town or even I would have been mafia. If that answers something...

I find this phrasing quite odd, and rather forced. I think a true townie would say that I'm feeling anxious...... or I'm feeling worried...... But a townie really has no reason to not be confident in their own alignment. Also, the "I would have been mafia" -- townies would (more likely) say "If I were/was" -- there's no logical reason for a townie to use the pluperfect subjunctive.

Also, one vote is hardly "quite close to lynch."

While the right thing to do as town is to try and prove him I'm town and put him back on the right track, it's not something I can do since many things I did - I did while knowing they would make me suspicious. Therefore I can't really defend against many of them as I find them suspicious myself.

Even if you're not scum, you're admittedly anti-town. Tell me why you shouldn't be lynched today.

...oh wait, you've tried to explain this away already:

Appearing scummy will most likely not make me a night kill target, thus keeping me alive longer in case I manage to avoid lynch. Of course, you can claim that in a way it harms the town as I become a suspect and possibly draw attention away from the real scum, but I find it very interesting to see the reactions of people when it comes to lynching a player who plays like this. Scum tend to slip in such situations.

You can't honestly blame town for lynching such a decidedly anti-town player like you ....can you?

You could try to find scum rather than trying to

be

scum. How about that?

Also, where is Wickedestjr? Dude hasn't posted in a day

While I understand that a lack of activity in some players can be frustrating for other players that are highly active, you must understand that not all players have the same level of access or time to play as other people.

Excellent comeback. I'm not entirely sure you're town, though. Keep trying.

Still, I think I'll keep quiet for now. If you want to lynch me then go ahead. At least I'll have more to work with for a while.

This is a solidly non-scum statement. (It's not at all pro-town, but scum wouldn't say this unless they were very, very brave.) HOWEVER, this is only one non-scum statement out of countless scummy statements, so.

Umm... I hardly have a list tbh but if I had to pick then the list would be:

1) Wickedestjr
2) Honest Abel

Interesting. A list with no reasons. Let's examine these two suspects, shall we?

1) Our beloved Wickedest. The IC (naturally a target), and Lurker Extraordinaire. Lurking is not always scummy, and ICs are not always scum. Any reason, DC, for choosing such low-hanging fruit?

2) Honest Abel. One of the more solidly town players in the game (unless you ask IAI). Again, a reason??


Up in a bit: Page 10 forward. I have some Modstuff to take care of first.

[singersigner]

Vote Count 2.5

cavjj (1): whilst
DarkClaymore (1): dicknose
Honest Abel (0):
whilst (1): DarkClaymore
dicknose (0):
I Am Innocent (0):
Nobody Special (0):

Not Voting (4): cavjj, Honest Abel, I Am Innocent, Nobody Special

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

Mod Notes:

• Deadline is August 22nd, 2011 12am PST

Please remember that it is against site rules to mention ongoing games. That means even if you are currently dead or have replaced out and no longer playing, it is cause for modkill to talk about it. This is a warning; should I hear or see any such talk or discussions, I will be forced to take disciplinary action.

[/list]

[DarkClaymore]

whilst

I'd say starting from here. You said Abel shouldn't be suspecting me and IAI that much while you yourself made me one of the suspects a few posts before.

From that post on is seemed as if you dropped the idea of chasing me.
And you ignored how I mentioned you outguessing my reason for putting the IC on the top.

I don't know how to react to your own interpretations of my behavior. All I can really say is, you were wrong to think that.
About the "outguess": It was just an idea I had, and maybe you had the same reason as me. I didn't have any ill-intentions by saying that. Mind you, it's still a plausible theory.

All I can say is that you did and you are still doing it. Pleasing both sides. Here you do it again by calling my theory "plausible". Maybe you really think so, and maybe you are scum. Since I have no better ideas atm - I'm willing to go with the latter.

dicknose

What I proposed was a method to clear as many townies as possible during D1.

But saying you think someone is town is just useless to the town. You are convincing no one and no one will be convinced. All you are doing is, like I said, gaining town points and also possibly these players' trust.

lingol

I was talking about saying you think someone is town based on shallow reasons like reads. That's why I was searching for a method that can clear townies with ACTIONS. Things like voting for scum or surviving a tie. True, they aren't perfect as well. But I find them much more trusty than just reads as scum supposed to give town reads as well.

Your strategy: "found" one scum, lynched no scum, left you without credibility, annoying.
The town's strategy: found three scum, lynched three scum, has various values for crebility and bearability.

Oh yeah? You know how it happened?
The first was killed in a lynch tie. The second when a sibling vanilla said that people lynch him so that his sibling scum dies at the night. And the third was cop claim.

There wasn't much of a strategy there. More stuff like luck or circumstances. And if anything, I'd take some credit for the first scum death as I was the one pushing the tie idea the most and working very hard in order to make it happen (Yes, by playing lynchbait. Get over it).

And I was right about the scum that was lynched on D4 from the very D1 and never left it alone as opposed to some others who I unFoSed. If I had survived longer, I would have pushed his lynch more. But apparently scum decided to get rid of me, most likely due to me being one of the players who survived the tie.

Abel

I love the worldview that DC would have us believe: the scummier he is, the more protown he is.

Never said that. I'd be playing lynchbait as scum as well most likely.
True that my general view is the loud and obvious scummy reasons never hit scum as I myself have never seen such thing happening, but maybe others have.

Nobody Special

I find this phrasing quite odd, and rather forced. I think a true townie would say that I'm feeling anxious...... or I'm feeling worried...... But a townie really has no reason to not be confident in their own alignment. Also, the "I would have been mafia" -- townies would (more likely) say "If I were/was" -- there's no logical reason for a townie to use the pluperfect subjunctive.

Also, one vote is hardly "quite close to lynch."

I just gave the result part of an "if" sentence. If I had used "if" I would have to add: "If I had been scum" or something like that. I believe I thought the sentence would look awkward with this.

And people were talking about lynching me back then as well. So it was pretty obvious, as it's now, that I'll be lynched. Right now I also have only one vote on me. But does that make me far from a lynch? I don't think so.

Even if you're not scum, you're admittedly anti-town. Tell me why you shouldn't be lynched today.

You can't honestly blame town for lynching such a decidedly anti-town player like you ....can you?

You can lynch me if you want. I suppose in a way it'd be a protown move, especially if I'm wrong regarding the way I analyzed the reactions toward my lynchbait play. If Whilst isn't scum then you should really lynch me then. While it'll still be a townie lynch, at least you'll get a person you suspect off the road.

You could try to find scum rather than trying to be scum. How about that?

I already said. If I try to use the traditional ways and "reads" as people call them - I always miss. I can't find scum unless I do something

different

and

unusual

. Yeah, I'm bad at scumhunting.

his is a solidly non-scum statement. (It's not at all pro-town, but scum wouldn't say this unless they were very, very brave.) HOWEVER, this is only one non-scum statement out of countless scummy statements, so.

What part of it...?
If I were looking from the side as a townie, I'd think it might be an attempt to defend

Interesting. A list with no reasons. Let's examine these two suspects, shall we?

1) Our beloved Wickedest. The IC (naturally a target), and Lurker Extraordinaire. Lurking is not always scummy, and ICs are not always scum. Any reason, DC, for choosing such low-hanging fruit?

2) Honest Abel. One of the more solidly town players in the game (unless you ask IAI). Again, a reason??

I was sure the IC is lurking at the time and isn't just "inactive". He's no longer on my list atm.
Abel seems to be working very hard. Of course, it can and it does look protown but it looks

too much

protown. I believe a townie shouldn't appear as too much of a hard worker because that leads to being targeted by night kill.

If you really think you are a good player who can contribute, you should also think how to make yourself a less likely night kill target and survive longer.

Also, if people want me to cite something legit to base how extremely protown players are dangerous:
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Wifom

You are a Townie in three-player LyLo with two other players who have cross-voted - who you vote for will decide the game. One of them has looked moderately scummy throughout the entire game and appeared to fly under the radar, while the other one has for the most part looked extremely pro-Town throughout - enough to make you wonder why they were never targeted by a night kill. Who should you vote for?

Caveat: A surprising proportion of the time, the correct answer is to lynch the one who looks extremely pro-Town.

Well, since we obv don't have a 3-man scumteam, at the most, two of those bolded above are scum. cavjj is pretty town to me,, based primarily on post #139.

The way I see it, most likely one or both of the mafia members didn't vote. Exactly because you, and I believe many others, started analyzing these votes like this.

[DarkClaymore]

Please remember that it is against site rules to mention ongoing games. That means even if you are currently dead or have replaced out and no longer playing, it is cause for modkill to talk about it. This is a warning; should I hear or see any such talk or discussions, I will be forced to take disciplinary action.

You see? That's why I didn't want to give any links. I had a feeling it's not appropriate.
As long as I didn't give links, no one could really know whatever the game ended or not. And no one could know about which game I'm talking anyway.

[Honest Abel]

You were talking about games that had ended anyway, right? You didn't have to mention ongoing games. Plus, I don't think the mod is talking about you, he/she's probably talking about me talking about NS. Point taken, mod.

NS, good catch on DC's weird wording. It's very odd that he used "would have" instead of "were." It's like he was padding himself with an extra layer of subjunctivity or something.

DC, you can't clear people with your actions. You haven't cleared anybody. You've just made a mess of yourself. There are perfectly town reasons why people would or wouldn't vote for lynchbait/you. That doesn't solve anything. About me being

too

protown, I already explained my stance on this. I play as hard as I can in the day because you could be killed each night. A townie is going to get killed each night regardless of how I act. And there's no reason why keeping myself alive would benefit the town more than anyone else staying alive. You are acting scummy, in part, because you want to keep yourself from getting nightkilled (you said this earlier), which is ridiculous considering you admit you are a bad player. Why would you want to stay alive as long as possible if you know you suck and couldn't bring the town a win? That's pretty much playing against your wincon.

[whilst]

whilst

I'd say starting from here. You said Abel shouldn't be suspecting me and IAI that much while you yourself made me one of the suspects a few posts before.

From that post on is seemed as if you dropped the idea of chasing me.
And you ignored how I mentioned you outguessing my reason for putting the IC on the top.

I don't know how to react to your own interpretations of my behavior. All I can really say is, you were wrong to think that.
About the "outguess": It was just an idea I had, and maybe you had the same reason as me. I didn't have any ill-intentions by saying that. Mind you, it's still a plausible theory.

All I can say is that you did and you are still doing it. Pleasing both sides. Here you do it again by calling my theory "plausible". Maybe you really think so, and maybe you are scum. Since I have no better ideas atm - I'm willing to go with the latter.

Abel #56, Wickedestjr (Now

Nobody

Special) #68, and you have brought this up. I am not "pleasing" anyone, I am adding arguments to both sides. If anything, I am helping both cases out. I'm just trying to help make sure we don't miss another way to look at things. Since I'm looking at your guys' conversations from a third-point-of-view, my reads on a situation have a good chance of being the same way that another player in the town interprets it.

Nobody Special

Abel, who do you want to see lynched at the conclusion of Day 2?

Assume that Nothing Special isn't going to post anytime soon.

Oh, and please: My name is

Nobody

Special.

I'm rather finicky about that.

My bad, sorry dude. Thanks for catching up with the game! In another post you stated you had reached page 10. Do you have anything to add about N1's victim?

Now we just need a little more from IAI and cavjj and we can make some more progress.

[whilst]

Why would you want to stay alive as long as possible if you know you suck and couldn't bring the town a win? That's pretty much playing against your wincon.

You went a bit overboard here. I know it's just your way of 'wording' the post, but the mod already warned us against personal attacks. I'm going to assume singersigner reads all the posts and she might point it out. You should apologize in advance.

[Honest Abel]

Apologize for what? "Suck"? He says he's a bad player. I'm not adding anything to that by saying the word "suck;" it's his argument repeated to him. I'm not saying it's my interpretation. Also, it's a verb that clearly demonstrates the concept of "bad-player-ness." There's nothing behind it other than that, I promise.

[Honest Abel]

Furthermore, your officiousness is grating. It's as though you are concerned more with appearing fair and agreeable than with playing the game. Providing your third-person perspective if not as helpful as you make it out to be: first, because people can already roughly imagine how their actions will be perceived by others; second, because stating your layer of perception can only help scum see and fix their errors. This runs totally contrary to your Napoleon attitude. What is the protown use?

[cavjj]

Now we just need a little more from IAI and cavjj and we can make some more progress.

To be fair I don't really know what else you want. I have been clear and concise over my hammer, I have detailed why DC is top of my list, I have not exactly been inactive. If you want a big massive wall post that no-one but yourself will read, then I will be more than happy to oblige when I get home from work but I doubt it will contain the plethora of information you think I may have.