Newbie 1136: DarthYoshi's Dystopia of Death (Fin--who won?!)

[AeRyung]

Also, [quote="CS]His last post seemed far too much like scum trying to blend in.[/quote]
Has it ever occured to you that I AM?! ~_~

[AeRyung]

oops, i meant "Has it ever occured to you that I AM TOWN?" LOL fuck I feel accusations coming already... :[

[theamatuer]

Actually, it's more like:
Lynch a suspicious IC or an *Insert term here* newb.
Yeah, I don't know how to describe myself

[AeRyung]

aw there there theam.... I think you need a hug :[

[AeRyung]

*whispers* btw, don't call yourself a noob, you might get accused even more.

[theamatuer]

To aeryung: really? I just feel loads of wifom and circle logic coming on.0
Yeah, I'll call her as VT.

[theamatuer]

Also, the term is newbie, since everone here is a newb except for the IC and SE

[AeRyung]

I guess I'm more used to writing noob because of all the games that I play. It's usually used for insults against the other player.

Also, @Soulblade: you haven't posted anything since the 1st, and your last login was the 3rd.

[DarthYoshi]

I guess I'm more used to writing noob because of all the games that I play. It's usually used for insults against the other player.

Also, @Soulblade: you haven't posted anything since the 1st, and your last login was the 3rd.

Correct you are. Prodding SoulBlade.

[Stels]

Computer Restarts suck when posting... So I'll shorten my posts a bit... Such a pain.

To aeryung: two games in total
first game: got subbed in at page 37, game ended at page 39.
second game: got lynched on day 1 at page 9 while I was asleep.
BTW: I self-voted since I promised I would if it came to an L-2 here. and I don't like breaking promises. However, self-hammering is a different story

Digging your own grave here...

@Ghostlin: 2 Pages Endgame and early PG 9 D1 lynch brushes off your first point against theamatuer.
@CS: 3rd quote in your content from Ghostlin isn't exactly content. More like "Who's scum in your opinion" and a very general question that I see in every game. Usually asked when you have nowhere to go with your own vote or want a backup by seeing who is the most popular suspect for other people. (#197)

Possible scumpartners:
theamatuer-hiplop.
Ghostlin-SB.
SB-stels
ta-morthas
NOTE: these are placed considering the possibilty of the first being scum if the other is known scum.
Also. How did I get the Goon title?

OK, analysis time:
Character Analysis (Scummy level from 1-10. 1 least 10 most)
Aeryung:pulls the noob card out, both directly and indirectly. Usually after being attacked. Possible mistake. 4
ConSpiracy:Tunneller of thematuer. 7
Ghostlin:2nd ta tunneller. posts little content in general for an IC. 8
hiplop:Apparently helpful. Mostly attacks Ghostlin and ConSpiracy. possible scumpartener with ta. 3
Johog: To early to be sure. 5 for Null
Morthas: can't tell. More suspicious than not though. 6
Soulblade: Didn't post since mistake. Very possible scum. 9
stels: Mostly counterarguments against ta. null. 5
thamatuer: Self-voting. Very Defensive in the beginning. jumps on bandwagon's in the middle. Self-vote. Becomes offensive towards SB. Probable scum. 7
This is being as objective as possible.

You're really making me cry tears of blood here. It was already stated before that making connections at this stage of the game is just a plain waste of time. You're enforcing one of the points Ghostlin made about you about making silly connections. The fact that people who are tunneling you are the highest on your scum-list already means something. Except me? I'm also tunneling you, why am I not at least on the same level as CS at least?

Spoiler: @Goon Title (theamatuer)

You already have it... You get the Goon title by getting at least 50 posts in game threads, 100/150 for Mafia Scum title. Can't remember.

Me and CS can take care of you guys anyway; do not need a scum IC telling you what to do!!! I don't have much else to say, so im jokingly putting my point across

Do I not count? :'(

@stels: I do understand that you are not BKWM but that doesn't justify any of the accusations against him. Your aggressive manner towards theamatuer because of his accusations seemed like a OMGUS more than anything(aside from the obvious scum tells). I believe if you knew that BKWM was innocent, you would have done a little more regarding the matter instead of just forcing a clean slate onto others, because in all honesty, that would absolutely be helpful for town.

I haven't said anything about his position against BKWM. Despite him defending his own "suspect" which is the obvious thing to do.
If I knew that BKWM was innocent..? Please don't make me say it... Please...
How would it help town? Defending a person that isn't here is just pointless. I can't read minds, I can't speak for someone else.

@Mod: VC please? Also possible prod on Ghostlin if he doesn't post today (Friday).

[theamatuer]

You attacked me because I attacked you first, so it's mostly a OMGUS attack.
ConSpiracy is a plain tunneler. Although I may be a little biased, I'll move him to 6 then

[theamatuer]

I'm just putting my two bits in in case I get lynched for everyone to see later.

[Johhog]

Page 5:

AeR: Why haven't you upgraded your FoS on BK to a full vote yet?

I know that if I give good reasons for suspicion, the vote count would increase, resulting into a quick lynch, and with the possibility that he might actually be a townie who doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut, I'm a bit hesitant because this game is in it's early stages. Regardless, it comes down to his next post.

@BKWM: You haven't posted since there were two more votes on you. You posted regularly before, why not now?

@Everyone: I would like to know what everyone thinks regarding this matter, why he should be lynched, why he shouldn't. Being in depth would be appreciated.

You seem like you want the best of both worlds here, if BKWM flips town you wanna say "I told you it was too fast" and if he flips scum you wanna say "I told you he was scum".

Since most people(Ahem, paradox) have posted sufficiently I am going to ask
Who do you think is our scum? (Gut feelings are good too, some stances would be great).

I´ve read everything, the only thing that

seems

slightly suspicious to me is BKWM

Why is he slightly suspicious? If it's because you agree with someone, why are their reasons more valid?

Reasoning without evidence is not as valid as Reasoning with evidence.

Reasoning with false evidence is much less valid than reasoning without evidence. Explain WHY are their reasons valid.

QFT.

Con's eagerness to promote folks to L-1 early seems to be partially dissonant to his 'Don't Quickhammer' stance. (Reasoning: L-1 increases the chance of quickhammering---reason why you avoid it in RVS.)

First:

Call me CS dammit!

I hate the abb Con.
Secondly this is not dissonant. I think L-1s are good to test others, but I wanted to tell town that they should always check if they are hammering or not, just to be sure.

EBWOP: if you didn't notice, I voted for etanga (now Marthas). So no, I'm not that scared. But then again, excluding me, there are 5 newbies, just enough for a lynch. So you can't play too complex either, else the newbies just decide to lynch someone instead of trying to understand.

That is not what I meant. Reading back, I meant this:

So you are scared of being attacked

because

if you voted for the IC?

English is not my first language. I try to keep mistakes at a bare minimum, but it's hard when I'm not very good at English.
Anyways, you were scared as this shows:

It is because the IC's are supposed to help the newbies get accustomed to the game. The IC would then start to have a sense of reliability around him, and thus if you attack him, the newbies would turn towards you instead.

Seems scared to me. And that is a bad reason not to do it. Those five newbies aren't morons to protect their IC for something like this.

EBWOP(again): I just realized that theam was supposed to be me. Well, I am mostly trying to aid others in their attacks for now, since I don't seem to have anyone in mind.
So basically, I'm running a semi-aggressive/helping type of play, and I'll switch to aggresive once I have enough suspicions.

So you are giving yourself a free pass to bandwagon others without reasons?

Why are you trying to deter people from voting you by saying that you will post a lot. I find that suspicious.

Why aren't you replacing your RVS vote with a genuine one? I find THAT suspicious.

Good posting.

Actually, no. Selfvoting cannot help your goal, as you are supposed to play to your win condition.

As Morthas said, selfvoting as scum is sometimes useful. I once made an item about this in a game I IC'ed, let me look it up:

Spoiler: Self-hammering, good or bad

The answer should be simple, it is hardly ever good. Self hammering hinders own faction and mostly results in unbalanced win percentages due to the info town lost or mislynch missed. However, there are a few cases that self-hammering is more useful for the game. (I am talking about now crazy themed or special roled games. Off course there are more exeptions, but these occur most often)

Scum selfhammer

- A scum selfhammer is more often right than a town selfhammer. However, there is just one reason to selfhammer, to hinder town in their information. When should scum selfhammer? If it is already obvious that he will be lynched. Let's say scum A is at L-1 for a long time and sees no chance to evade the lynch. However, town wants to wait with the lynch till replacements caught up, till a quarrel was sorted out etc. The best thing scum A can do is self-hammering, since town will miss the catch-up post, the outcome of the quarrel etc. If player A knows he would be lynched already, there is no reason not to make it a little quicker.

Town selfhammer

- A town self hammer is purely to help the rest of the town and is only right when the game is slowly drifting towards a No Lynch. A No Lynch in newbies and mini normals occasionally helps town into MyLo, which should be followed with a No lynch in most games. I will show it a bit more organized:
newbie nine players
D1 lynch, 8 players
N1 kill, 7 players
D2 lynch, 6 players D2 no lynch, 7 players
N2 kill, 5 players N2 kill, 6 players
D3 lynch (game over if 3 mislynches) D3 no lynch (MyLo) 6 players
N3 kill, 5 players
D4 lynch (game over if 2! mislynches)

Why should town selfhammer? Because a (generally thought suspicious guy) lynch usually gives far more information to the rest of the town than a (generally thought townish guy) night kill. The wagon gives people information to think about.
That's all I can think of right now.

Who do you think is our scum? (Gut feelings are good too, some stances would be great).

Scum: Theam
Neutral/scum: Ibarra

Not enough reads for the others.

And I won't be able to be online tomorrow, my grandpa celebrates his 80th anniversary.

Some good points here.

yoyo guys. I know some of you from other games, but overall fairly new to you all. I've read the thread and all that jazz.

1) What alignment and role do you prefer, and why? Town PR is my favourite, then third party, then scum, and i really hate VT. Not much fun tbh
2) Would you lynch lurkers? Completely depends on the situation; if we can gain information from their death, then sure. But I am against policy lynches for the most part.
3) When lynching, do you rely on your gut or your analysis? A mix of both. I know in my mind what can't be true, and so gut definitely contributes to my play, not in a huge way, though.
4) What is your stanch on using meta? Very much against it, as I know I have been lynched many times due to "playing differently". My playstyle changes rather often, and its more based on my emotions at the time than my alignment.
5) What's your timezone? EST
6) What is your posting style: A few lengthy posts or a lot of small posts? Mix of both, though I have been trying to become more of a waller, but I do like being succinct and to the point; too many walls can be a VERY boring thing, and cause players to lose interest.
7) How much do you expect to post in this game? A lot.

VOTE: PARADOX for being hamtaro! Making me miss my childhood!

I haven't noticed much scum-behavior thus far, but BKWM is my top scum-spect, so im staying away from his lynch atm. TheAm to me seems townie, and quite honestly the reasons for the pressure on him are pretty bad. He looks to me like an inexperienced townie, rather than scum.

Huh? A RVS vote on page 5, why?

Welp.

Vote: BKWM

Meant to do this

Vote: BKWM

*sigh*. Why are you changing your mind now?

unvote

vote: theamatuer

<.<>.>
.................................................what?

WTF RAGE. What the hell is this?

unvote

vote: theamatuer

<.<>.>
.................................................what?

Congrats on your scum claim. Let me know how that works out for you.

But then Ghostlin decides to be as fucking scummy as possible. A bit quick on wanting to lynch Theam, right?

[theamatuer]

unvote

vote: theamatuer

<.<>.>
.................................................what?

WTF RAGE. What the hell is this?

Yeah, I think I'm regretting this right now.

[ConSpiracy]

Thank you for not tunneling me anymore.
Also, why does it seem that when a person seems to get actually scummy, they stop posting altogether?
(talking bout soulblade and possibly BWKM)

It's a valid and very annoying strategy for scum to stay away from the radar.

Yeah, I'll call her as VT.

What did you mean with this?

You know that ICs, wether their aligment is scum or town, should guide the town in the right direction, right?

Yes. Currently the IC in 2 games

Oh, I wouldn't have thought that with your join date. You had experience before mafiascum? Or you are also playing on another site?

But for a scum, a lurker can be used as a decoy. A lurker can very much be accused of being scummy, therefore, either they'd get lynched by town and if not, the scums would not have to waste a kill on night 1(considering lurkers are not scum themselves) and rather use their kill on a life threatening townie. Which is why I feel that Ghostlin was trying to get an answer out of paradox before he could possibly get replaced(though eventually, it did happen).

That makes somewhat sense. However, there is town motivation as well, have you thought about not letting Paradox cruising through the game? Null at best and the reason for that is either forced (scum) or tunneling

Ehm... I am stating what I have understood from the situation. It is true...*looks around* isn't it??

Yeah, you may be lucky you are a newbie and signed up for a newbie game first. I think in any other game you would have been lynched already. You are trying to recieve approval from other players. That's called buddying up with them, it's a another scum-strategy that helps giving the buddied players a town read on the buddyer. It's scummy.

You would obviously see it that way because you still believe Ghostlin is innocent(or are you defending your partner?). I see things in another perspective because I think he one out of the two scums.

Yeah read above. This still reads very forced as it is null at best.

So, an IC's duty is to guide the town in the right direction(to him) even if he is scum? That seems rather hard. I am still waiting on Ghostlin's response to my question what he wants to achieve as an IC in this current game.

Yes. With guiding in the right direction I mean guiding the game how it should be. Not guiding the players to the right lynch. Let's say, if every body wants to quicklynch on the first page, the IC should say that is not a smart thing to do. He has to say that regardless of his alignment, for example when he's scum and the one to be quicklynched would be town. (And he didn't play a part in it)

I will read through Johog's walls later, I skimmed them all quickly because it is so much...

[Stels]

You attacked me because I attacked you first, so it's mostly a OMGUS attack.
ConSpiracy is a plain tunneler. Although I may be a little biased, I'll move him to 6 then

Refer to your delusions however you wish. In my book, your concerns were with BKWM, not Stels.

@CS: #239, 2nd quote... Think he was referring to AeRyung as VI instead of VT. Which is kind of mean...
Or if he wasn't, that was sort of random, just like his entire character thus far.

@Mod: Prod on Morthas. Haven't heard from him in ages, unless he posted recently enough.

[Johhog]

Not prod-eligible, only a day since last post. Do you know about activity overview Stels?

[theamatuer]

Got cramps in both legs. The pain is overwhelming.
CS: I'm saying Aeryung is Townie, albeit one pulling out the newb card a lot. She pulls out the card too much, and obviously uses it after every mistake she makes. This however attracts more attention to her. However, this isn't scummy, since covering up every mistake causes too much attention instead of prying attention away from you.
And no saying that my WIFOM logic is circle logic. These are two different things.
And Stels, I attacked you as well once you subbed in and Soulblade unvoted immediately, but I unvoted as well.
If you want, I can move you to 6 too.

[DarthYoshi]

@Mod: VC please? Also possible prod on Ghostlin if he doesn't post today (Friday).

The current VC is unchanged from the last one I posted (which would be why I hadn't posted a new one):
theamatuer (3): ConSpiracy, Ghostlin, Stels
Ghostlin (3): hiplop, Morthas, AeRyung
ConSpiracy (1): SoulBlade
SoulBlade (1): theamatuer
Not Voting (1): Johhog

And I appreciate the vigilance, but neither Ghostlin or Morthas are close to prod range.

[Stels]

Not prod-eligible, only a day since last post. Do you know about activity overview Stels?

Too lazy to click their names and count when was the last time they logged on. Just like I was too lazy to read the game without having to skim through at least 60% of it.

Trying to get some discussion going from those two. Ghostlin's reaction, since he is one of the highlighted individuals at the moment. And Morthas hasn't really done anything. At all. Mostly fluff.

@theamatuer: Feel free to move that number to anything. Just find it funny that people who you consider at the top of your list are the ones that are after your head.

@Mod: It just helps to have a VC every now and then, instead of going back 3-4 pages to find it. Sorry if that offends you in any way, the tone and such.

[theamatuer]

theres an activity overview below the page skip icons. You can see the last time they post and also PM them. It's what the mods use.

[hiplop]

Oh, I wouldn't have thought that with your join date. You had experience before mafiascum? Or you are also playing on another site?

I've played for years at other places, always thought this place was too serious, but another poster from that place told me to join here. Already have played 25+ games here, I love it.

[DarthYoshi]

@Mod: It just helps to have a VC every now and then, instead of going back 3-4 pages to find it. Sorry if that offends you in any way, the tone and such.

No, no, no offense taken. I'll keep it in mind if we go a stretch of another couple of pages w/out any vote changes.

[hiplop]

Stels and ConSpiracy, I will love you forever if you vote Ghostlin.

[AeRyung]

How would it help town? Defending a person that isn't here is just pointless.

I think as the person who accused BKWM, I just want more information to have a clear conclusion in regards to your position.

You seem like you want the best of both worlds here, if BKWM flips town you wanna say "I told you it was too fast" and if he flips scum you wanna say "I told you he was scum".

Not at all. It was the beginning of the game, nothings for certain. Hence, the non-vote Ghostlin had pointed out and apparently, so did you

*sigh*. Why are you changing your mind now?

Change my mind in what? I already had BKWM in mind. If you meant by voting, I had already explained on post#126 and then right after hiplop explained what ghostlin was trying to say.

I didn't vote in the beginning because like I said before, I knew that the vote count would go up, and I assumed that it might become a lynch that shouldn't have happened. But I just voted because BKWM has not posted in two days or so after he's gotten his vote counts up and I'm getting impatient ^^.

@Ghostlin: Ghostlin, you're rather confusing me as an experienced player. First, you say we shouldn't vote someone without a good amount of info to avoid an unnecessary lynch, that's why I didn't vote. Then, you point your finger at me for being cautious on my vote and not voting after suspecting BKWM. I don't understand your logic in that.

That makes somewhat sense. However, there is town motivation as well, have you thought about not letting Paradox cruising through the game? Null at best and the reason for that is either forced (scum) or tunneling

Well of course, but I think I was more worried about others than paradox for that moment, so it was a good thing you called it out.

Yeah, you may be lucky you are a newbie and signed up for a newbie game first. I think in any other game you would have been lynched already. You are trying to recieve approval from other players. That's called buddying up with them, it's a another scum-strategy that helps giving the buddied players a town read on the buddyer. It's scummy.

So was Ghostlin trying to buddy up here?

Right now, there's really not much point in me voting SoulBlade (mostly because I don't find him scum). Call that buddying, but frankly, I think TM, BK (or BK's replacement, just because BK got replaced with a better player doesn't mean we should let stuff go), or AeR are likely candidates.

I'm getting mixed definitions of buddying. Also, wouldnt this be considered buddying as well?

Funfact: Mothas's last post accusing me, Soulblade and CS of all being scum cannot possibly be true.

I don't try to receive approval from other players. I say what I want to say, and its up to the player to analyze what I say and determine what I am from there. But now I can see why that can be scummy from your end, so thanks for the info.