Newbie 1138 - Game Over! Town Win!

[DarkClaymore]

Why would you want to stay alive as long as possible if you know you suck and couldn't bring the town a win? That's pretty much playing against your wincon.

I originally copied some of the lynchbait idea from another player. I believe his reason for using it was in order survive longer, and it works awfully well most of the time. But unlike him, I mainly focus on the aspect of analyzing reactions toward an "obvious suspect". Surviving nights is something that comes as a set with this play style. However note that I put myself in obvious danger during the day. Also, I prefer to be lynched rather than night killed because before getting lynched, at least I'll be able to analyze some votes and say whatever I think (even if no one going to listen like in this case...).

I don't really see why analyzing how scum will act when there's an obvious suspect is pointless. Scum should stand in front the dilemma whatever to follow everyone and end up being wrong and gain suspicion points, or rather say that they aren't sure about the lynch - what will give them some town points. I believe they tend to do the latter in most cases. Hence I believe Whilst is scum. Coming from a very similar reasoning, note how he didn't vote for neither you nor BBmolla on D1. Or rather, I'd say that he hasn't voted at all so far (unless I missed it) from the very beginning. And I believe he is the only one who hasn't (aside of the IC with whom we have obvious issues). Strange how he only points fingers at people but never starts a wagon nor hops on an existing one.

All I have to say is that if I'm right and Whilst is scum - then my playstyle worked. If I'm wrong, then I'll admit I ended up playing as an idiot here and that I should change my playing style.

[whilst]

Furthermore, your officiousness is grating. It's as though you are concerned more with appearing fair and agreeable than with playing the game. Providing your third-person perspective if not as helpful as you make it out to be: first, because people can already roughly imagine how their actions will be perceived by others; second, because stating your layer of perception can only help scum see and fix their errors. This runs totally contrary to your Napoleon attitude. What is the protown use?

You should calm down. How am I supposed to know how strict the mods are on this forum? It'd ruin the game if singsigner just removed you because you told DarkClaymore he sucked. She made the rules clear: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p3285381

[whilst]

I don't really see why analyzing how scum will act when there's an obvious suspect is pointless. Scum should stand in front the dilemma whatever to follow everyone and end up being wrong and gain suspicion points, or rather say that they aren't sure about the lynch - what will give them some town points. I believe they tend to do the latter in most cases. Hence I believe Whilst is scum.

Right, because I'm the only one unsure about the lynch. The only people who seem "sure" of themselves are you and Abel. If anyone else is "sure", feel free to chime in.

Coming from a very similar reasoning, note how he didn't vote for neither you nor BBmolla on D1. Or rather, I'd say that he hasn't voted at all so far (unless I missed it) from the very beginning. And I believe he is the only one who hasn't (aside of the IC with whom we have obvious issues). Strange how he only points fingers at people but never starts a wagon nor hops on an existing one.

Why should I even bother voting for people who I have no evidence of being scum? To pressure them? Both Abel and BBmolla had pressure on them. I still think cavjj is scum, so I'm on a 'wagon' right now. Feel free to hop on. I wouldn't mind seeing him lynched.

All I have to say is that if I'm right and Whilst is scum - then my playstyle worked. If I'm wrong, then I'll admit I ended up playing as an idiot here and that I should change my playing style.

Sorry, but you're wrong. Just look over your own posts. None of your "arguments" against me have any substance and I've offered a proper rebuttal to everything you've said. You still haven't been able to come up with a solid point to lynch me on. I'm only trying to help: you should move on.

[Honest Abel]

I really don't think "suck" is a big deal, and I think the only reason you're making a big deal out of it is because you want me modkilled because you're scum.

I'm starting to see the possibility of a whilst/IAI scumteam. If DC flips town, that's probably what I'll go for. Can't back down about DC at this point, though. He's made that impossible. If he's town, that's his fault.

VOTE: DarkClaymore

[Honest Abel]

I think going after cavjj is in itself scummy given D1. He's an easy target because he hammered town. I'd like to see cavjj attempt scumhunting, though. He hasn't done too much other than hammer and defend himself.

[DarkClaymore]

I still think cavjj is scum, so I'm on a 'wagon' right now. Feel free to hop on. I wouldn't mind seeing him lynched.

You say that and don't even bother to vote. This isn't a wagon. This is BS.

Why should I even bother voting for people who I have no evidence of being scum? To pressure them?

That's the point. You MUST find me suspicious. That's how lynchbait works. The idea is that NO ONE should be able to say "I don't find DC suspicious". You are the only one who is doing this atm.

And how you can say that after putting me in second place of your top suspects? If you have nothing on me, why put me there? If anything, I turned into more and more suspicious as time passed. You should have even MORE reasons than you had back then.

All I have to say is that if I'm right and Whilst is scum - then my playstyle worked. If I'm wrong, then I'll admit I ended up playing as an idiot here and that I should change my playing style.

Sorry, but you're wrong. Just look over your own posts. None of your "arguments" against me have any substance and I've offered a proper rebuttal to everything you've said. You still haven't been able to come up with a solid point to lynch me on. I'm only trying to help: you should move on.

Well sorry that I'm not like most people who think that it's so easy to lynch scum with some "solid" and "obvious" reasons. I don't believe in that as I have never seen it happening. If ever my deduction hit scum, it was only with reasons no one found "solid".

I really don't think "suck" is a big deal

I agree with this.

[DarkClaymore]

Oh, wait. Did you vote for Cav?
I checked many times and never found that post...

[DarkClaymore]

NVM. Finally found it.
I suppose one reason is off then.

[DarkClaymore]

And if we already at that.
When you voted, you called Cav my most likely partner

We're still missing a few people. Until then, I will vote DarkClaymore's probably partner:

And now you say you have nothing on me?

[Honest Abel]

Wanting "solid evidence" is something whilst has talked about in the past as town, so it doesn't ring scummy to me as silly as it is. Null.

[Honest Abel]

#380 and #383 are the first town things DC has said all game, in my opinion. If he's going to stop being scummy now and scumhunt, then I might end up changing my opinion. Although he could be doing this because I said he's left us no choice but to lynch him.

[cavjj]

I think going after cavjj is in itself scummy given D1. He's an easy target because he hammered town. I'd like to see cavjj attempt scumhunting, though. He hasn't done too much other than hammer and defend himself.

A fair point, one I won't disagree with as it's essentially true apart from my DC related post which I can't look for right now (I'm on my phone). Again, I don't want anyone to take my inexperience into account but I am still learning all this stuff. I've never played on the internet, read a few games before I came on here and the last time I played was about 4 years ago IRL. Again I stress, I'm not trying to use that as an excuse.

My top two suspects anyway are DC and whilst. The only thing that confuses me about DC is his willingness to roll over and take it, even if he is trying to act as lynchbait. I've already noted my suspicions, if I put him to L-1, all it would take is for IAI to come on overnight and hammer. Although judging by D1's **itstorm, I doubt it.

Nobody Special is very pro-town, maybe too pro-town as if trying to prove a point. I've already had suspicions on you, Abel but you allayed them to be fair and I'm not massively suspicious anymore. And if we're being frank, I can't quite place dicknose.

[Bricktoes]

Nobody ever votes for anybody, huh Darky?

[DarkClaymore]

Nobody ever votes for anybody, huh Darky?

True. Nobody Special hasn't voted yet. Your point?

[Honest Abel]

I completely disagree that NS is being overly protown. He's hardly done anything yet. Still chilling in my null box.

The thing that struck me over and over again about D2 DC is that he admitted he was being lynchbait early on and then just kept being scummy. He didn't do anything active until #380 that I remember. He's just been sitting back and defending himself for being purposely scummy. I still have to think about it, but maybe I can't picture town doing that at all.

[cavjj]

Question. DC - what are you hoping to have achieved by the end of D2?

[DarkClaymore]

The thing that struck me over and over again about D2 DC is that he admitted he was being lynchbait early on and then just kept being scummy.

I believe playing lynchbait is possible as long as I don't reveal how I analyze players' reactions. Since I already have, now all that is left is to try and point out anything I can against the one I consider scum based on that analysis. While I'll still be lynched most likely, at least I'll feel good with myself in case Whilst flips scum latter on. If he doesn't, the I'd feel like a total asshole

Question. DC - what are you hoping to have achieved by the end of D2?

Finding scum thanks to my lynchbait play and point anything I can find against him. Whatever I would or wouldn't be lynched after that is the lesser matter. Trading "townie for scum" isn't a bad deal imo. Of course, the question remains whatever I did or didn't hit scum.

[cavjj]

So you're willing to sacrifice yourself if town sees whilst as scum later on? How's that working for you? Doesn't look like its been the greatest strategic move IMO.

[DarkClaymore]

So you're willing to sacrifice yourself if town sees whilst as scum later on? How's that working for you? Doesn't look like its been the greatest strategic move IMO.

Well, I already said I'm quite the useless player in most games. So I'm not the type that have to survive for a long time. I'm not trusting my scumhunting abilities (if we are talking about the regular "scum reads" and "town reads" thing), so it's better that people who do will live on rather than me.

And lynchbait play is the best idea I could come up with until now from all the games I have played. I might be lynched, but at least I might become somewhat "useful" by finding scum. Better than staying longer and being useless IMO.

[Honest Abel]

Except if you're wrong about "finding" scum. I see no conclusive evidence that whilst is scum, and you flipping town won't change that. So really, if you're town, you've just been entirely useless, played against your wincon, put town in a tough position, distracted us from the real scum, and found your way onto my personal blacklist in the future.

[Honest Abel]

I'm not trusting my scumhunting abilities (if we are talking about the regular "scum reads" and "town reads" thing), so it's better that people who do will live on rather than me.

Except earlier you said that the reason you're being scummy is so that you can survive longer. Explain the contradiction.

[Honest Abel]

The way you switch back and forth between contradictory arguments seems like you're just trying to tell people what they want to hear. You have no convictions.

[DarkClaymore]

I'm not trusting my scumhunting abilities (if we are talking about the regular "scum reads" and "town reads" thing), so it's better that people who do will live on rather than me.

Except earlier you said that the reason you're being scummy is so that you can survive longer. Explain the contradiction.

I didn't say I use this in order to survive longer myself.

I originally copied some of the lynchbait idea from another player. I believe his reason for using it was in order survive longer, and it works awfully well most of the time.

But unlike him, I mainly focus on the aspect of analyzing reactions toward an "obvious suspect". Surviving nights is something that comes as a set with this play style.

However note that I put myself in obvious danger during the day. Also, I prefer to be lynched rather than night killed because before getting lynched, at least I'll be able to analyze some votes and say whatever I think (even if no one going to listen like in this case...).

True that I believe playing at least a little scummy is always good, but my own lynchbait is about finding scum and not necessarily surviving.

Though let me ask you. Who would you suspect now without my lynchbait play? Cav? We didn't have much to go by. I doubt we would have reached anything by the end of the day. Unless you do something drastic - scum won't slip. If you just sit around and hope to find slip in scum's post by attacking them, then maybe you'll really find something. Once in 10 games or more.

Unless you analyze their

actions

, not only how many and what they post, finding scum is hard. You must catch them

doing something

or

not doing something

and not just saying something random. Town can make mistakes as much as scum can. Rather, I'd even say town are the ones who usually do mistakes which appear scummy.

I believe my lynchbait play does exactly that. It makes the life easier for scum while extremely alerting the town. Therefore anyone who votes for me (note: vote is an action not just a "post") is less likely scum, whereas those who refuse to vote me, especially strongly refuse and even say they think I'm not suspicious, are more likely scum.

[Bricktoes]

The reasons that Darky finds whilst scummy had already been adressed in the first few pages. Tons of help.

[DarkClaymore]

The reasons that Darky finds whilst scummy had already been adressed in the first few pages. Tons of help.

Yeah? Where?
I don't remember him saying I'm most likely scum and then suddenly saying he got nothing on me in the first pages.
Would you cite that please?