Newbie 1136: DarthYoshi's Dystopia of Death (Fin--who won?!)

[Johhog]

The point here is, I want to catch the scum first, to avoid a ML.

[DarthYoshi]

Day One, Vote Count the Ninth

theamatuer (3): ConSpiracy, Ghostlin, Stels
Ghostlin (3): hiplop, Morthas, AeRyung
ConSpiracy (1): DH-Star
Not Voting (2): Johhog, theamatuer

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch, and 5 to no-lynch.

The deadline is currently set for 12:00 noon (Pacific Daylight Time), Saturday, August 13.

As ever, any questions or concerns, please let me know.

[Ghostlin]

@Johhog, if you can, can you go into detail why you don't believe his claim?

Because it was so obvious he would claim a PR when cornered. Sure, he can be a PR, but it's a low risk that's the case. Remember, scum always claim a PR if they are forced to claim.

You do realize that that is WIFOM, right? Not that I don't expect to be lynched with that claim, but honestly--if I do have the PR and claim VT to save my own skin, you guys won't believe me at all later when I claim the PR. Also, if I was scum, I only have what totals to be a 1 in 3 chance of choosing a PR not taken by anyone in this game. (2 out of 3 if there are 2 PRs.)

Part of the claim phase is this is where some would counterclaim me to maximize the chances that one of us would be lying if I was scum with a PR that no one has.

I don't expect the counterclaim, bluntly. I have the role. If someone counterclaims, you are to lynch me, then them with fire.

[Ghostlin]

Wow. I don't believe that JK claim at all. Seems like scum who desperately want to survive.

We could always resort to outing our 'actual' PR. We get 1 scum and lose 1 town; we clear Ghostlin; or hope luck is on our side. Either way, we have one claimed PR of possible 2.
I don't want to resort to the 'other' PR claiming, unless our situation is really hopeless, if we even have one. So, I am hesitant to disbelieve his claim at the moment.

Don't do this. Massclaim would just telling scum where to place their shots. Wait until either Day 3 or Day 4 when you are in Lylo, so you can examine the claims in isolation.

[Ghostlin]

@Ghostlin, why is that the only ones you suspect are the ones voting for you? Seems kinda weird.

@Morthas, who do you think is scum?

Weird, maybe--but it's also weird to have two folks so closely parrot reads. TM and hiplop have had similar reads from the moment hiplop replaced in. I've seen people all agree on one thing before as town in a newbie game, all replacements--and one of them was scum, so even scum agreeing with townies has happened for easy cred.

Honestly, I'm going to say it bluntly--odds are very good there's a scumbag on my wagon. VCA will help you on future days somewhat with that.

When I flip town, I find the odds are good that hiplop will flip scum, to answer the other question posted--I'd be hugging 70% chance that one of TM and hiplop is scum.

[Johhog]

The thing is, we can't look at your claim Ghostlin, because we know scum would claim a PR. Instead we have to look if you've been scummy or townish this game. Personally I have a null-scum.

[Ghostlin]

The thing is, we can't look at your claim Ghostlin, because we know scum would claim a PR. Instead we have to look if you've been scummy or townish this game. Personally I have a null-scum.

Fact is, you can't look at my claim at all due to the fact that an astounding amount of claims D1 should be lynched, even VT claims for purposes of confirmation.

Enough about theory. If I'm null-scum, who is scum scum?

[Johhog]

Also we would learn a lot from a Ghostlin town flip. At least one of hiplop/Theam would be scum (I don't think both).

[Johhog]

The thing is, we can't look at your claim Ghostlin, because we know scum would claim a PR. Instead we have to look if you've been scummy or townish this game. Personally I have a null-scum.

Fact is, you can't look at my claim at all due to the fact that an astounding amount of claims D1 should be lynched, even VT claims for purposes of confirmation.

Enough about theory. If I'm null-scum, who is scum scum?

That depends on the flip. If you're scum, Soul's replacement (forgot the name) probably is scum. If you're town, hiplop or Theam is scum.

[Morthas]

Ghost, i suggest you cram in as much info as you can before we lynch you. (Which is looking very likely)

[theamatuer]

I'd suggest everyone to do a full analysis of day 1, just in case we get NK'd as well.

[theamatuer]

EBWOP: by we, I meant the one out 7 townies to get NK'd by scum

[hiplop]

Hm, Wasn't expecting that. Going to think about how to take this.

[hiplop]

Ghostlin; Do you HONESTLY think my play is scum motivated? If so, why? I really don't see it.

Also, I might have to agree on AeRyu and TheAm, I think if you ISO me, you'll see I've been keeping my eyes on TheAm the whole time (usually asking him questions to make sure hes thinking for himself).

Ultimately I still support your lynch, and I'll take the responsibility if you do flip town. I just can't see myself being wrong at this point...

[Morthas]

Honestly, I dislike hiplop less and less because of none of the actual proof of anything he's felt (he's claimed TM's "sincere" when bluntly some of his play contradicted itself a lot) and frankly?

I've played a lot of games with a lot of VIs, new ones DO NOT TEND to vote themselves as obvtown.

The fact that hiplop has blithely ignored this lends more credence to the fact that I feel he's buddying TM--I do not usually do this, but if I were to pick a scum team: it'd be hiplop-TM. By the way, kids, he's called his scum team early on and hasn't deviated from it at all--he's not really scumhunting, he's trying to string up whomever he can find to ride to lynch at the moment.

@hiplop: Can you comment on that?

[hiplop]

WIFOM. I've seen tons of newbs do that.. I have to give someone heck for it in just about every game I play.

Not liking how hes still clinging to that.

[Ghostlin]

Ghostlin; Do you HONESTLY think my play is scum motivated? If so, why? I really don't see it.

Also, I might have to agree on AeRyu and TheAm, I think if you ISO me, you'll see I've been keeping my eyes on TheAm the whole time (usually asking him questions to make sure hes thinking for himself).

Ultimately I still support your lynch, and I'll take the responsibility if you do flip town. I just can't see myself being wrong at this point...

Yes.

*#130 says I'm Scum IC. This is a benchmark post--you know, the kind you include with a case--and you just kinda wave off my play as 'not town motivated.' You've yet to acutally cite WHY my play isn't town motivated besides IC fluff--when I've acutally posted reasoning why. You and I have accused each of this all game, and occassionally you'll post a one-liner that I ask you to substainate that you don't, really.

*I dislike your continuing defense of TM. Frankly, it goes beyond self voting at this point, regardless of TM posting the reasons why you should not self-vote as a modkillable offense,

he turned around and did it anyway

. There's really no reason to do this, it hurts town win conditions, he was aware of it and he did anyhow. Frankly, if an SE or IC had done it, you'd lynch that with fire--I feel the only way a new player knows what's expected of them is to hold them to the same standard. You aren't. I'm not accusing you of not doing your duty, I'm accusing you more of why are you letting that slip--particulary since you called him 'genuine' in a post.

In fact you just lampshaded this in your last post (#315):

WIFOM. I've seen tons of newbs do that..

I have to give someone heck for it in just about every game I play.

Not liking how hes still clinging to that.

Also, as for making the reasoning his own, it isn't. Let me reference two posts:

quote="hiplop"]Scum-team is Ghostlin/Soul Blade, calling it now for brownie points later on.

Seriously, doesn't anyone find it suspicious that Ghostlin hasn't done anything useful all game? He's misinterpreted a few posts, something townies don't need to do. And posted some game mechanic fluff, hes like the epitome of scum-IC

. All of his posts are just...awkward as well, theres no way this guy is town.

At this point; I think theamateur is just misunderstanding, he reads as genuine. Conspiracy is also likely-town.[/quote]

Well, it's pretty obvious that he's not a Vanilla townie.

he's acting like an IC, but in reality he's posted minimal content.
He essentially follows others when posting his ideas, and such tries to keep as low of a profile as possible.

when attacked, he counterattacks, but rarely substanciates.
So he's either scum, or PR. Based on probably, with figures from his own post.

there's a 2/9 chance of being scum, there's a 7/9 chance of being Town, with at least a 1/9 of being a town PR in a 2x4.

scum is highest, PR has the proability increased a little based on how he tries to hide, and Townie exists since we could be wrong, and it might just be how he plays.

Which of the bolded ideas is EXACTLY like the other?

[theamatuer]

Which of the bolded ideas is EXACTLY like the other?

You're saying they're suppossed to be? How would that help besides furthering your own case?
Hiplop's argument is that you were completely useless because you didn't post anything useful.
My argument is that you're completely useless because you keep parroting others.
So no, they're not 100% identical.

I'm not accusing you of not doing your duty, I'm accusing you more of why are you letting that slip--particulary since you called him 'genuine' in a post.

maybe because I stopped soon after? I'd say the only reason that's keeping theamatuer wagon together is because of my self-vote.

[Stels]

Which of the bolded ideas is EXACTLY like the other?

You're saying they're suppossed to be? How would that help besides furthering your own case?
Hiplop's argument is that you were completely useless because you didn't post anything useful.
My argument is that you're completely useless because you keep parroting others.
So no, they're not 100% identical.

I'm not accusing you of not doing your duty, I'm accusing you more of why are you letting that slip--particulary since you called him 'genuine' in a post.

maybe because I stopped soon after? I'd say the only reason that's keeping theamatuer wagon together is because of my self-vote.

The idea from your post is that it was parroted after hiplop's. What Ghostlin means is that either scum-hiplop is leading scum-theamatuer.
Also some contradictions in hiplop's posts about self-voting.

~Confusion~

Can you stop talking about your god-damn self-vote?

theamatuer (3): ConSpiracy, Ghostlin, Stels

theamatuer wagon IS still there.

[theamatuer]

You know, if I wasn't the 2nd scum suspect and not stupid, I would repeatedly self-vote/unvote just to piss you off >:D.
But yeah
CS:voted me in early stage, then kept it because of self-vote.
Stels: voted me immediately because of self-vote
Ghostlin: who knows?
And to Ghostlin: just saying, but don't go thinking of everything as scummy. Just because they're supposed to lie and hide doesn't mean that everything from self-voting to commenting about their favorite pie is a scumtell. Based on their posts and possibly meta. Know what is normal, and find differences. Then use your own judgement to find which is scummy and which is just plain weird.
Btw: I'm saying this because I think Ghostlin is just jumping at everything suspicious.

[hiplop]

Ghostlin, you're trying to lynch someone for the sole reason that he self voted. This was before I came in. I know you have more reasons or w/e now, but you're wrong. Newbtown self-vote all the time. And you're trying to go for a super easy lynch on him for it.

He is sheeping me, for sure. And I'm not going to let him coast along. However, I strongly believe you're scum, rather than a smaller read on TheAm

[Stels]

You know, if I wasn't the 2nd scum suspect and not stupid, I would repeatedly self-vote/unvote just to piss you off >:D.
But yeah
CS:voted me in early stage, then kept it because of self-vote.
Stels: voted me immediately because of self-vote
Ghostlin: who knows?
And to Ghostlin: just saying, but don't go thinking of everything as scummy. Just because they're supposed to lie and hide doesn't mean that everything from self-voting to commenting about their favorite pie is a scumtell. Based on their posts and possibly meta. Know what is normal, and find differences. Then use your own judgement to find which is scummy and which is just plain weird.
Btw: I'm saying this because I think Ghostlin is just jumping at everything suspicious.

I also was relying more on your other parts that contributed to your scuminess, than on your self-vote. Self-vote did help reveal that you are one of the most likeliest scum in this entire game, yet it isn't why I'm voting you now, is it?

Wow. I don't believe that JK claim at all. Seems like scum who desperately want to survive.

We could always resort to outing our 'actual' PR. We get 1 scum and lose 1 town; we clear Ghostlin; or hope luck is on our side. Either way, we have one claimed PR of possible 2.
I don't want to resort to the 'other' PR claiming, unless our situation is really hopeless, if we even have one. So, I am hesitant to disbelieve his claim at the moment.

Don't do this. Massclaim would just telling scum where to place their shots. Wait until either Day 3 or Day 4 when you are in Lylo, so you can examine the claims in isolation.

I did say I didn't want to do this. Hence the "don't want to resort to the 'other' PR claiming."

[DH-Star]

It feels great to replace someone who posted nothing useful and merely parroted at the beginning of the Day before disappearing. /sarcasm, but I started reading back without knowing who I replaced, and even I'll admit that SoulBlade looked scummy. Ah gotta love life.

Hiplop's caught my eye as he has been VERY determined to get Ghostlin lynched, and it hasn't gone unnoticed. IDK how to multi-quote so excuse my supposed lack of evidence, but at one point, Hiplop said he'd love some people if they hammered Ghostlin, which seemed odd. BUT, I'm fairly certain Hiplop's town, I'm just curious as to why he's putting his neck out so much on Day 1. Maybe it's just me, but I would never be so gun-ho on Day 1, just because that's not how I play I guess.

Ghostlin's WIFOM was bad, but not nearly as bad as theamatuer's analysis list thing where he gave himself a 7/10 scum rating. Ugh, some people's kids. Amazingly, I think theam isn't scum ... just very very noobish and/or dumb.

AeRy has seemed very tentative for some reason. I'm keeping Johhog on my radar, simply because he replaced paradox who I was very wary of due to lack of input and blatant lurking for a bit.

Sorry for any stupidity btw, only my 2nd game (technically) and I don't deal well with big blocks of text. Especially since I just read through 13 pages :/.

Two questions:
1) Who's TM?
2) If Ghostlin dies, will he still be active in the thread performing his IC duties?

[Johhog]

FYI it's scummy to express suspicion of the player you replaced. To me, if Ghostlin is scum, you are. If Ghostlin is town, hiplop or Theam is scum. As I said, we learn a lot from a Ghostlin lynch.

1) I think it's Theam.
2) No. I guess the SEs (which I think is me, Morthas, hiplop and ConSpiracy) will fill in for him.

[Johhog]

And I think paradox just wasn't interested enough, with multiple excuses for not posting and finally being replaced that points more to him being bored/uninterested than him being scum.