TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[Rainbowdash]

Oversoul is in this game? SRSLY? No read. Scummy by way of lurking, I guess.

No, he is scum for things like the following

Early he starts taking middle of the road stances on some of the people taking flack.

About Vifam, I can't really say much as I haven't really looked into his posts, but I did see some sheeping.

For what is soon to become the top wagon, this is a great way to justify joining the wagon due to inital groundwork he takes the time to lay out here. Same time there are easy escapes as he hasn't read enough.

He eventually throws out a big post with reads, most of these can be boiled down to null however. The big case at the end of all this though makes up for it!

His actions seem opportunistic and I get scummy vibes from his posts

Yes that is the case on silver. He takes no stances in his entire post, which is accented by voting a "null-scum" read.

This bug me a whole lot though

Leon, I said "sort of agree on" and "seems". None of those imply a concrete agreement/read on you. Why are you trying to make it sound so?

A very ugly reaction to pressure on his reads. Oversoul almost seems scared to actually call leon scum, and hard backpedals in order to reaffirm that he really has no read on him instead of try and work out what "seems" interesting. He just transfers all suspicion regarding Oversoul to a Junepi case on him though. Seriously. Without even pointing out what parts in particular he "sort of agrees on"

Oversoul has done no scumhunting this entire game, and actually backs down from any sort of it when someone challenges him to. This is not 'scum for lurking', although it does happen to be scum lurking, but its noncommital scum to the extreme.

Peregrine and Oversoul. Theres two.

[Castle Bravo]

I don't care to, Rodion.

You seem to find many ways to comment on many things that tell us very little about the game. What have you learned from all your questions, Rodion?

How would it matter who is second most scummy to you, Rodion? Are you curious if your teammates are hiding well?

[Rodion]

I don't care to, Rodion.

You seem to find many ways to comment on many things that tell us very little about the game. What have you learned from all your questions, Rodion?

How would it matter who is second most scummy to you, Rodion? Are you curious if your teammates are hiding well?

You did not reply to me Silver/Shotty question.

I learned a lot, thank you. Not going to compile that unless you ask for the purpose of specific questions.

Who's second (to fifth) most scummy to me in your view matters to me because I won't let you coast through the day without committing to anything other than "Rodion is the scumz". The person you replaced provided nothing yesterday and providing 1 read over 2 days is not nearly enough for a slot. That would be the pinnacle of noncommital.

[chkballin]

@chk - Thoughts on Peregrine, oversoul and Banshee?

None of those three would be my choice lynch for the day.

Andrew, is a puzzling player in the way that he is VI. I never know if he's just being ridiculous or if he's scum- given that their are supposedly two neighborizors I am betting that they both aren't town so I could get behind an andrew lynch.

VI - villiage idiot? That's what the wiki says but I want to confirm.

If so are you claiming that you are too dumb to read an idiot? You are a very confusing player.

Chkball, what's your read on rodion?

Do you think Andrew is a cult recruiter?

It's not as confusing as you are painting it to be- so that's noted. I am not saying I am too dumb to read an idiot, I am saying that idiots play like idiots and are generally hard to read if you are someone who has a brain . Andrew plays a game that makes no sense for town IMO, he's made me think he's scum twice and I've been wrong and I've been right. I say his play is unvarying and a little ridiculous.

My read on Rodion is that he isn't a threat and he isn't a day 2 lynch. At best Rodion is a serial killer, but I am almost positive he's town.

[Rainbowdash]

@chk - Thoughts on Peregrine, oversoul and Banshee?

None of those three would be my choice lynch for the day.

Lets go beyond "not my top lynch choice" here.

[chkballin]

@chk - Thoughts on Peregrine, oversoul and Banshee?

None of those three would be my choice lynch for the day.

Lets go beyond "not my top lynch choice" here.

I see no reason to. I am not going substantiate a lynch for people I don't see as threats for the day. What was the ultimate goal of that question?

[Junpei]

Rodion, what did you learn from that convo with Banshee?

[Castle Bravo]

I don't care to, Rodion.

You seem to find many ways to comment on many things that tell us very little about the game. What have you learned from all your questions, Rodion?

How would it matter who is second most scummy to you, Rodion? Are you curious if your teammates are hiding well?

You did not reply to me Silver/Shotty question.

I learned a lot, thank you. Not going to compile that unless you ask for the purpose of specific questions.

Who's second (to fifth) most scummy to me in your view matters to me because I won't let you coast through the day without committing to anything other than "Rodion is the scumz". The person you replaced provided nothing yesterday and providing 1 read over 2 days is not nearly enough for a slot. That would be the pinnacle of noncommital.

The answer, Rodion, would be yes.

I am uninterested in your opinions on what is acceptable. You are scum. You are alive. That is unacceptable.

Vote: Rodion

For complete emphasis. More town do this.

[Castle Bravo]

It's not as confusing as you are painting it to be- so that's noted. I am not saying I am too dumb to read an idiot, I am saying that idiots play like idiots and are generally hard to read if you are someone who has a brain . Andrew plays a game that makes no sense for town IMO, he's made me think he's scum twice and I've been wrong and I've been right. I say his play is unvarying and a little ridiculous.

My read on Rodion is that he isn't a threat and he isn't a day 2 lynch. At best Rodion is a serial killer, but I am almost positive he's town.

How would you have knowledge that lets you determine that a player is either town or a serial killer, but definitely not scum?

[chkballin]

It's not as confusing as you are painting it to be- so that's noted. I am not saying I am too dumb to read an idiot, I am saying that idiots play like idiots and are generally hard to read if you are someone who has a brain . Andrew plays a game that makes no sense for town IMO, he's made me think he's scum twice and I've been wrong and I've been right. I say his play is unvarying and a little ridiculous.

My read on Rodion is that he isn't a threat and he isn't a day 2 lynch. At best Rodion is a serial killer, but I am almost positive he's town.

How would you have knowledge that lets you determine that a player is either town or a serial killer, but definitely not scum?

What are you hoping to determine from this line of questioning? AND with that, is it beneficial more to town or to scum? It is my belief that the answers you want are more beneficial to scum. General play also shares some weight in my opinion of Rodion...

Now that I have said my piece on Rodion, if you push his lynch and he flips as I suspect- then you will shoot up my suspect list.

[drmyshottyizsik]

why is chk's scumminess being overlooked?

[jasonT1981]

Day 2 Vote Count 5

Silver 6 - Nero, Hipaddict, Leon, Shotty, CHKBallin, Mera
Andrew 6 - THAdmiral, Banshee, Junpei, DavidX, Killer, Izak
Izak 2 - ZeL1nk, Pinky,
Pappums 1 - MOI
Mera 1 - Rodion
Cherve 1 - Pappums
Peregrine 1 - Rainbowdash
Nero 1 - Silver
Rodion 1 - Castle
Z\EL1nk 1 - Vezo

With 25 alive, it takes 13 to lynch

[David Xanatos]

No listing of "not voting"?

[Meransiel]

I find it scummy to pick on such an easy target.

Agreed.

However, if such an easy target survives another night, I think I will start crying.

[Meransiel]

It's not as confusing as you are painting it to be- so that's noted. I am not saying I am too dumb to read an idiot, I am saying that idiots play like idiots and are generally hard to read if you are someone who has a brain . Andrew plays a game that makes no sense for town IMO, he's made me think he's scum twice and I've been wrong and I've been right. I say his play is unvarying and a little ridiculous.

My read on Rodion is that he isn't a threat and he isn't a day 2 lynch. At best Rodion is a serial killer, but I am almost positive he's town.

How would you have knowledge that lets you determine that a player is either town or a serial killer, but definitely not scum?

What are you hoping to determine from this line of questioning? AND with that, is it beneficial more to town or to scum? It is my belief that the answers you want are more beneficial to scum. General play also shares some weight in my opinion of Rodion...

Now that I have said my piece on Rodion, if you push his lynch and he flips as I suspect- then you will shoot up my suspect list.

Great way to bs out of answering a question. Scumpoints. Thanks.

@Rodion: Stop being obfuscating and MOTIVATE your vote on me. With actual...you know, motives.

Also, I invite people to do 2 things:
1. Please ISO shotty. Go on, you'll get the point one way or the other.
2. Stop talking about izak. Just ignore him, God damn it, there's no point.

[David Xanatos]

Mera > I know what you mean about Shotty. I'd call it redirection but jesus christ.. I've never seen attempts to redirect attention that are so.. bad.

I'm not sure if this is a WIFOM situation.. as in saying things like "why is noone else commenting on (X)", he pretty much ensures people write off (X) as a concept completely.

And.. why ignore Izak? o_0

[Meransiel]

Cause he always plays like this.

[David Xanatos]

You mean barely coherent snuggling up to people he thinks are intelligent town? o_0

[Nero Cain]

MoI is not scum neither is Rainbow

try again.

[silverbullet999]

-Dave
Hey Dave, I appreciate you answering my question in post 1611.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... start=1611

-Shotty
Hey Shotty, I appreciate you answering my question in post 1611

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... start=1611

-Banshee

Do you have something you especially want addressed regarding your posts that hasn't been addressed sufficiently so far in your opinion?

It would have been nice to see your full fledged ISO on me. Just threw it in a single post with a spoiler tag so it didn't clutter the thread... Simple enough.

Do you know why people are voting Andrew right now? Have you read his recent exchange with MoI? I don't understand your reaction to his wagon.

I'm not sure why your confused here. I know why people are voting Andrew... I have read his exchange with MOI, so I'd like to look into andrew more to see if he's not being the typical andrew I know. In case it's hard for you to see I normally throw andrew and shotty as VI's as either town or scum. I'm going to comment about andrew at the end of this post.

-Junpei

I think that it is scummy that silver asks for a typed out investigation of his ISO that will provide no new evidence. It doesn't seem to make any sense as to why it should matter much at all to silver is what I'm saying, if he's town. Silver you should be scum hunting, discussing cases against you is a passive thing not an active thing. Prove you are town with future actions, not endless debate over the past that you won't win.

1. To my knowledge the ISO was already typed out, it was a simple copy and paste. Getting someone's full fledged view on me is always helpful for the future.
2. You don't think I've been scumhunting?

-zelink

I TOLD YOU SO

Anticlimatic

-Killer

Asked and answered. Is there anything you need me to explain further?

No No No your misinterpreting my question, What I quoted from you is saying you found it suspicious that after Day 1 I resume my campaign for a Nero lynch and throw my vote on him once more or as you put it "I feel he's harboring his vote by placing it on Nero. With the classic, "Just following my D1 play!" as his sole excuse." So what happened up to that point that could have changed my mind?

-Nero
What is your read on andrew?

---
Castle Bravo is interesting
Rod pretending to make a case from it is more interesting...

Now reading andrew iso.
Eh he's making longer posts than I last remember... but he's still being essentially the same andrew I know. His lynch I can dig for the day but I think pressure should go elsewhere currently and since my vote is unfortunately unproductive at the moment... let's change it.

VOTE: The Continuously Opportunistic Izak

[David Xanatos]

At Uni right now, finishing a little coursework. Missed that post. Will get back to you when I'm less-busy.

[ThAdmiral]

Ok FINALLY some time to post.

A couple of people asked me why I thought Rodion was town. I first started thinking it in post 109. He claimed that he was a mislynch and that he was town. This is, of course, not proof - but it is the sort of thing that smacks of a newish player not knowing what else to say. I'm generally pretty good at picking when people are being genuine like this, and I think I'm right about this.
In 404 he gave a helpful list of other games he had been in/was in unprompted. This sort of open giving of information seems like behavior coming from someone who believes he has nothing to hide.

I've pretty much had him as a town read ever since. I think there were a few other things he has said that has reaffirmed my opinion of him but I can't remember them. If I looked I could probably find them, but only if you guys aren't satisfied with the above for some reason and want to pester me.

@Thad & Jun-
Even the target is confused as to why he was chosen, which shows why their is general confusion.

...

The target being confused means nothing,

What he said.

It's too bad a Junpei lynch is off the table, because oh man this deflection post is golden.

But he wasn't deflecting away from himself. Does that still make it scummy?

Post 1580 is the first thing I've liked from banshee.

@everyone you know how you demanded junpei's track. and he said vezok. what if vezok said he did go somewhere. who would you believe.

Lots of what andrew has posted is bad, and most of it has been addressed, but I just wanted to bring special attention to this horrible line. Look at it.

LOOK AT IT!!!

I'm slightly confused as to why scum would WANT to neighbor MoI. That's why I'm steering clear of andrew for now.

This is literally the only thing that is making me question andrew being scum.
But it is making me question it, so it bears mentioning.

i clearly stated that i asked jason this question: can scum neighbouriser( ie the other) recruit their own scum buddies.
the answer was yes.

This is patently ridiculous. Why would scum recruit another scum? They are already in a "neighborhood" with them.

ALIGNMENTS ARE RANDOMIZED YOU FUCKS. That means that there can damn well be two Town Neighborizers. Hell, there could be two mafia neighborizers.

ALIGNMENTS, not ROLES.

Edit: it's been mentioned. Eh, one more can't hurt.

Am i the only one who thinks MoI is more likely scum than andrew?

Probably.

Rainbow is obv town. Maybe more to me than anyone else.

Ok, why?

why is chk's scumminess being overlooked?

If you're going to say something like this you may as well elaborate as to why you think he's scummy. So can you?

I do know how much you enjoy playing this little game where you get someone (in this case me) to ask you these sort of inane questions.

No listing of "not voting"?

@ mod: seconded

**THE FOLLOWING NEEDS TO BE ANSWERED**

firstly, banshee what do you mean 'this'

It was a hyperlink to the post that caused me to vote for you. I thought that was evident.

What is the value of the "integrity" of the discussion between unconfirmed neighbours, in your view? Also, in your opinion what is the benefit of daytalk between unconfirmed individuals?

[killerjester]

No No No your misinterpreting my question, What I quoted from you is saying you found it suspicious that after Day 1 I resume my campaign for a Nero lynch and throw my vote on him once more or as you put it "I feel he's harboring his vote by placing it on Nero. With the classic, "Just following my D1 play!" as his sole excuse." So what happened up to that point that could have changed my mind?

I don't think I understand the question. I'm supposed to give you a better alternative to voting Nero because of something that's changed? I'm not saying your case on Nero doesn't have merit..actually I am, just a little bit. I can't speak for everyone but I don't really see why you jumped on him so hard allllll the way back at D1. I don't like how you aren't 1. Trying very hard to get followers on your Nero case or 2. Moving your vote to a better wagon. You put your vote on Nero, sure, but you never really followed up on your idea. In fact, you barely mention him at all D2. It may make

perfect

sense in your mind, but you don't really help the town when you can't explain yourself to a convincing degree.

When you put your vote on Nero, it felt like you were saying, "Everyone should know why my vote is here," and that you didn't feel obligated to convince the other players. That's what I meant by harboring your vote. It was essentially worthless.

[Leonshade]

I was hoping to make a proper catch-up post today, but I'm feeling a bit sick so I'll just say the following:

-I need to iso andrew and Oversoul (the former for what seem to be dodgy posts, the latter for the points Rainbow about his lack of scumhunting and backing down under pressure)

-DavidX doesn't seem particularly scummy right now, so I'll indefinitely postpone my ISO on him. I'm also bumping him off my scumlist.

@Meransiel:

Could you link to any games where izak acts the way he's acting in this game? As of this moment all I'm seeing from him is active lurking and sheeping.

why is chk's scumminess being overlooked?

This is your first post about him, you should make a case on him if you think he's scummy.

MoI is not scum neither is Rainbow

try again.

You already responded to this post in a previous post, what was this post for?

[David Xanatos]

Got a moment to read over that. If you didn't realise, that was me making a comment. If I had to put my thoughts in a nutshell, it'd be the following.

"Stop trying to make a martyr of yourself and play to your goddamn win condition."