Newbie 1138 - Game Over! Town Win!

[Bricktoes]

DC's case on whilst:

1) Pleasing both sides.

whilst has done this before, and it's been one of my main critiques of his play in the past. The other thing he used to do was assume a "style" of posting. One game, he was as much of a stubborn asshole as he could be. It was very anti-town. He's stopped doing that kind of thing, but he still seems to be trying to please people. Good point.

Is it a majority of people that think I am pleasing everyone? Or just Abel and DC?

I already said you were scummy for many of the same reasons as IAI is.

[whilst]

Seems like whilst is suddenly being extra offensive because we pointed out how placid he is.

God forbid I change my vote from cavjj. But you're just playing games. Shouldn't you welcome the aggressive behavior? I know NS will. Doesn't it fit into your "pro-town" rulebook?

I did read your whole post. It's not looking good, chum.

You did? Then explain why I put my vote on him, and then allow me to clarify if you misinterpreted it.

[whilst]

DC's case on whilst:

1) Pleasing both sides.

whilst has done this before, and it's been one of my main critiques of his play in the past. The other thing he used to do was assume a "style" of posting. One game, he was as much of a stubborn asshole as he could be. It was very anti-town. He's stopped doing that kind of thing, but he still seems to be trying to please people. Good point.

Is it a majority of people that think I am pleasing everyone? Or just Abel and DC?

I already said you were scummy for many of the same reasons as IAI is.

Well, I'm at L-1. Do your worst dicknose. If you truly believe I am more scummy than some of the other players, allow me to be lynched. If I am, move Abel up on your scum list.

[Honest Abel]

Aggressive behavior does not fit into my protown rulebook. There needs to be logic behind it. You're responding harshly to DC's points and telling me something you said to me should be taken as a "fuck you." I'm not going to welcome aggressive behavior just because we pointed out how placid you were. You are simply trying to please us again.

You put your vote on DC "to get a response." Why you would vote for someone immediately after calling him town is beyond me. Furthermore, you said from the beginning that you're voting for him to see if he flips out. So he's going to be aware that you're doing it to get a response. But how his response will help you or help the town is also beyond me.

You're giving the outer shell of protown behavior while not thinking through the reasons behind it.

UNVOTE: whilst merely because IAI is coming back to respond to my wall.

[whilst]

Aggressive behavior does not fit into my protown rulebook. There needs to be logic behind it. You're responding harshly to DC's points and telling me something you said to me should be taken as a "fuck you." I'm not going to welcome aggressive behavior just because we pointed out how placid you were. You are simply trying to please us again.

You put your vote on DC "to get a response." Why you would vote for someone immediately after calling him town is beyond me. Furthermore, you said from the beginning that you're voting for him to see if he flips out. So he's going to be aware that you're doing it to get a response. But how his response will help you or help the town is also beyond me.

Well as long as you understood my point, I guess I can be happy. But do note that he didn't (or so he appeared) enjoy being put at the number 2 spot on my list. It is too bad that DC knows, but maybe he'll stop reposting the same points against me. And no, I haven't been trying to please anyone. DC appears more town to you, but not really to me. He did stop "entirely" going after me, which I welcomed.

Also, I did think you only unvoted me just to not look bad (you know, the whole bandwagon thing), but your past behavior lets me also think you really want to read IAI's response.

[Honest Abel]

If you weren't at L-1, I wouldn't have unvoted. Because I think dicknose might actually want to hammer you, even though he's been pretty much tunneling DC all D2. My impression is that his top two suspects are DC and you.

You're doing a lot of the simultaneous defend/attack thing here, still. I unvoted you just so I wouldn't look bad, but I'm genuinely interested in IAI's responses. Okay, so by saying everything you're basically saying nothing.

[Bricktoes]

I have no intention to hammer until I can review today's posts and compile my thoughts at a computer.

[Bricktoes]

Where did you get the idea that I had any intention to hammer or had whilst was in my top two?

[DarkClaymore]

Whilst's posts

Cry more, and really: learn to accept my play style. "If he were town, I'd expect him to stop." -- why? You repeatedly bring up the same points. If you were town, I'd expect you to move on; and hey--you did. You posted a nice section about Abel, congrats.

I accepted it's your playstyle. I'm not like others here who hate accepting scummy playstyles be default.
Problem is, we all tell you "you make yourself look suspicious". You are

clearly

harming the town. I'd say that you are playing lynchbait as much as I did. So why won't you stop? If you are really town and want us to catch scum, you should stop making yourself suspicious needlessly. You are just making us go after you instead of the real scum in this case.

But no. You prefer to say "lol idiots, it's my play style. Get over it". That's NOT what a townie should do. If you were to care about the town at all, you'd try to change your ways. And no, it has nothing to do with the "general protown" idea. It's basic logic.

You're bringing this up because I didn't "vote" for you? Because you claimed you were playing lynchbait, but I think it was bullshit? Putting you at number 2 seems to have done something: you won't get over why I've put you there. Why not? Will this make you flip out even more?

You couldn't possibly know that what I was doing from the beginning because I wasn't planning to play lynchbait. It's only after seeing how little I manage to contribute is that I started playing it and to the greater extreme. Saying things like "I saw this from a mile ahead" when

I

myself couldn't is a lie.

And no, I can't get over this list because you contradicted yourself with that list.

Should I bring back the "whats pro-town" remark you made earlier? Get over me. If I decide to outguess you, so what? I think you don't like me because of my username. There's an outguess for you. Do you hate me for that too? If I was out to get you, I would've brought up more points to get you -- not tried to 'outguess' you and...magically persuade people to vote for you?

If you were suspecting me, then you should have done

something

. Let me ask you. If you didn't suspect me, why you put me on the list at all? You say you don't want to pressure me with votes, yet you apparently (according to your third outguess) tried to pressure me with a list. I don't see any logic here.

Why would I point out that I fit the pattern, only to have people suspect me more? Does that make any sense to you? Become paranoid if you wish

Sorry Abel, but I have to say it this time: WINE. You gave the answer most players would have given. Whatever or not people will suspect you because of that is unclear. Rather, I'd say they should suspect you less due to the very reason you are bringing now. They wouldn't suspect you more because you fit, they'd suspect you

less

because you willingly admitted that you fit.

For me - you fit and that's that. If you flip town, then the only reason would be the fact you couldn't let go of your regular scummy playstyle. In which case you can blame no one but yourself.

Do you feel bad that you didn't

lynch

me during

N1

?

What the-?

Let DC respond, I want to see how he reacts.

"Oh, god! You voted! I'm sure you aren't scum now "
Is that what you expect me to say? Obviously voting now, especially as you are quite cornered, will change nothing.

Abel's posts

whilst, instead of just asking a question, offers an answer to his own question and asks the target if he agrees.

It just shows no desire to know the truth

, just a desire to see whether the person agrees or not. But it shouldn't be a main point, and it's not something town mightn't do.

And isn't that scummy by default? Scum are the only one who don't care about the truth. True, lazy townies neither. Thing is, he wasn't that lazy the way I see it. And he did say he want to be "certain" that he lynches scum. How can one become certain of this if one doesn't attempt to uncover the truth? Another contradiction to the list.

This would be a good point, but DC's evidence doesn't lead to this conclusion. It makes sense that whilst might find DC's tactic interesting (and, again, this is from knowing whilst: he has a penchant for trying to develop strange strategies) but later say that DC confused himself, because DC was talking in circles for quite a long time.

If I didn't get it clear enough then:

DC: "How would you play as scum in a situation there's a lynchbait which most likely be lynched?"
Whilst: "I'll probably let others argue about it and just say I agree without waging a war myself "
DC: "You are exactly doing this right now and that's why I think you are scum"
Whilst: "What? That's stupid and doesn't make sense at all. Sorry dude, you just confused yourself"

If I were to put it in an ironic way: he indirectly called himself stupid.

[Bricktoes]

Cry more, and really: learn to accept my play style. "If he were town, I'd expect him to stop." -- why? You repeatedly bring up the same points. If you were town, I'd expect you to move on; and hey--you did. You posted a nice section about Abel, congrats.

I accepted it's your playstyle. I'm not like others here who hate accepting scummy playstyles be default.
Problem is, we all tell you "you make yourself look suspicious". You are

clearly

harming the town. I'd say that you are playing lynchbait as much as I did. So why won't you stop? If you are really town and want us to catch scum, you should stop making yourself suspicious needlessly. You are just making us go after you instead of the real scum in this case.

But no. You prefer to say "lol idiots, it's my play style. Get over it". That's NOT what a townie should do. If you were to care about the town at all, you'd try to change your ways. And no, it has nothing to do with the "general protown" idea. It's basic logic.

...

If I were to put it in an ironic way: he indirectly called himself stupid.

[DarkClaymore]

DC is looking more town (to me). I highly doubt that a newbscum would put in THAT much effort.

HA vs. DC strikes me as town-on-town bickering

While I could just stay quiet and let you point out something in my favor, I still think I better point out that I'm actually quite used to making long posts. There was a game in which me and another player did "wall wars" and people were begging us to stop writing so much. Also, that player was actually scum. And it wasn't the first time I found myself arguing with a scum yet people easily wrote it off as town vs. town.

So I'd be frank - I can't easily see any argument as town vs. town after past experiences. If it's really town-on-town, so be it. But I rather push until the very end than giving up because it

might be

"town-on-town".

[whilst]

Whilst's posts

Cry more, and really: learn to accept my play style. "If he were town, I'd expect him to stop." -- why? You repeatedly bring up the same points. If you were town, I'd expect you to move on; and hey--you did. You posted a nice section about Abel, congrats.

I accepted it's your playstyle. I'm not like others here who hate accepting scummy playstyles be default.
Problem is, we all tell you "you make yourself look suspicious". You are

clearly

harming the town. I'd say that you are playing lynchbait as much as I did. So why won't you stop? If you are really town and want us to catch scum, you should stop making yourself suspicious needlessly. You are just making us go after you instead of the real scum in this case.

But no. You prefer to say "lol idiots, it's my play style. Get over it". That's NOT what a townie should do. If you were to care about the town at all, you'd try to change your ways. And no, it has nothing to do with the "general protown" idea. It's basic logic.

You're bringing this up because I didn't "vote" for you? Because you claimed you were playing lynchbait, but I think it was bullshit? Putting you at number 2 seems to have done something: you won't get over why I've put you there. Why not? Will this make you flip out even more?

You couldn't possibly know that what I was doing from the beginning because I wasn't planning to play lynchbait. It's only after seeing how little I manage to contribute is that I started playing it and to the greater extreme. Saying things like "I saw this from a mile ahead" when

I

myself couldn't is a lie.

And no, I can't get over this list because you contradicted yourself with that list.

Should I bring back the "whats pro-town" remark you made earlier? Get over me. If I decide to outguess you, so what? I think you don't like me because of my username. There's an outguess for you. Do you hate me for that too? If I was out to get you, I would've brought up more points to get you -- not tried to 'outguess' you and...magically persuade people to vote for you?

If you were suspecting me, then you should have done

something

. Let me ask you. If you didn't suspect me, why you put me on the list at all? You say you don't want to pressure me with votes, yet you apparently (according to your third outguess) tried to pressure me with a list. I don't see any logic here.

Why would I point out that I fit the pattern, only to have people suspect me more? Does that make any sense to you? Become paranoid if you wish

Sorry Abel, but I have to say it this time: WINE. You gave the answer most players would have given. Whatever or not people will suspect you because of that is unclear. Rather, I'd say they should suspect you less due to the very reason you are bringing now. They wouldn't suspect you more because you fit, they'd suspect you

less

because you willingly admitted that you fit.

For me - you fit and that's that. If you flip town, then the only reason would be the fact you couldn't let go of your regular scummy playstyle. In which case you can blame no one but yourself.

Do you feel bad that you didn't

lynch

me during

N1

?

What the-?

Let DC respond, I want to see how he reacts.

"Oh, god! You voted! I'm sure you aren't scum now "
Is that what you expect me to say? Obviously voting now, especially as you are quite cornered, will change nothing.[/area]

[/quote]

[whilst]

wrong button, hold on

[Bricktoes]

I'd like if no one was lynched today since I'll be working the whole time. I can post late tonight. Thanks.

[Honest Abel]

Okay. So a bit more discussion with IAI, dicknose's D2 thoughts, maybe some more contribution from or discussion of cavjj? At some point we need to determine when we've done enough, and then decide to throw all of our chips in and hammer someone.

I'm probably going to take flak for bringing this up, but it's a newbie game, so I think we're allowed to ask questions and discuss the game in general. It's my impression that once everybody has taken a particular stance for the day, it's good for a lynch to occur then rather than postponing it. Someone's stance in a day can be taken as a lifetime of posts, in a way. Letting people take multiple overall stances seems like a regression, because we're allowing that person to change and adapt with no punctuation or clear game changes (lynch, nightkill). For example, DC: I was fine for a while with lynching IAI because I felt DC had taken a solid stance on his lynchbait strategy. To me, it would have been revealing if we had lynched and had a nightkill and then saw what DC did on D3 juxtaposed to those absolute truths. But now he's changing his whole strategy in the middle of the day, and comparing two stances to absolute truths isn't going to reveal anything with certainty anymore. The same thing is happening with whilst changing up his play, or attempting to. I partly feel that this may be a regression and could make things less clear in D3. Now, I don't want this to be the main discussion, but if anyone has any thoughts on this after their regular play, I hope you will share.

[Honest Abel]

Where did you get the idea that I had any intention to hammer or had whilst was in my top two?

Because the only interaction you've had with anyone outside of DC is whilst, and it seemed like you were suspicious of him or pointing out contradictions.

[Honest Abel]

I meant to add "in my recollection."

[Honest Abel]

While I could just stay quiet and let you point out something in my favor, I still think I better point out that I'm actually quite used to making long posts. There was a game in which me and another player did "wall wars" and people were begging us to stop writing so much. Also, that player was actually scum. And it wasn't the first time I found myself arguing with a scum yet people easily wrote it off as town vs. town.

So I'd be frank - I can't easily see any argument as town vs. town after past experiences. If it's really town-on-town, so be it. But I rather push until the very end than giving up because it

might be

"town-on-town".

I agree that your posting a lot shouldn't make you look less scummy.

[Honest Abel]

Especially because a lot of is is misleading and mucks up the thread and makes the game more difficult to read and comprehend.

[whilst]

Whilst's posts

Cry more, and really: learn to accept my play style. "If he were town, I'd expect him to stop." -- why? You repeatedly bring up the same points. If you were town, I'd expect you to move on; and hey--you did. You posted a nice section about Abel, congrats.

I accepted it's your playstyle. I'm not like others here who hate accepting scummy playstyles be default.
Problem is, we all tell you "you make yourself look suspicious". You are

clearly

harming the town. I'd say that you are playing lynchbait as much as I did. So why won't you stop? If you are really town and want us to catch scum, you should stop making yourself suspicious needlessly. You are just making us go after you instead of the real scum in this case.

But no. You prefer to say "lol idiots, it's my play style. Get over it". That's NOT what a townie should do. If you were to care about the town at all, you'd try to change your ways. And no, it has nothing to do with the "general protown" idea. It's basic logic.

Glad you accept it, perhaps now you can move on. 1. I'm not harming the town, please point out how I am in your mind. 2. No I'm not playing lynchbait. I don't know why that would help me. 3. I'm not making myself look suspicious, you are convincing yourself that I am. And it's all been pointless remarks about how you don't like how I'm pleasing everyone or how I put you high on my scum list. You have a personal problem with me. I want you to stop arguing with me, and move on.

You're bringing this up because I didn't "vote" for you? Because you claimed you were playing lynchbait, but I think it was bullshit? Putting you at number 2 seems to have done something: you won't get over why I've put you there. Why not? Will this make you flip out even more?

You couldn't possibly know that what I was doing from the beginning because I wasn't planning to play lynchbait. It's only after seeing how little I manage to contribute is that I started playing it and to the greater extreme. Saying things like "I saw this from a mile ahead" when

I

myself couldn't is a lie.

And no, I can't get over this list because you contradicted yourself with that list.

Yeah, I didn't know. But you're still arguing with me about it, so now I do know. It's a problem for you, I'm sorry. You just react to it too much, for no reason. When did I say "I saw this from a mile ahead"? Please don't put words in my mouth, it's unhealthy.

Should I bring back the "whats pro-town" remark you made earlier? Get over me. If I decide to outguess you, so what? I think you don't like me because of my username. There's an outguess for you. Do you hate me for that too? If I was out to get you, I would've brought up more points to get you -- not tried to 'outguess' you and...magically persuade people to vote for you?

If you were suspecting me, then you should have done

something

. Let me ask you. If you didn't suspect me, why you put me on the list at all? You say you don't want to pressure me with votes, yet you apparently (according to your third outguess) tried to pressure me with a list. I don't see any logic here.

What's the difference between L-3 and saying "i think these guys are scummy, here's a list" -- almost nothing. Are three people going to hammer you? No. I'm sorry you don't see the logic, but maybe you will learn to in the future.

Why would I point out that I fit the pattern, only to have people suspect me more? Does that make any sense to you? Become paranoid if you wish

Sorry Abel, but I have to say it this time: WINE. You gave the answer most players would have given. Whatever or not people will suspect you because of that is unclear. Rather, I'd say they should suspect you less due to the very reason you are bringing now. They wouldn't suspect you more because you fit, they'd suspect you

less

because you willingly admitted that you fit.

For me - you fit and that's that. If you flip town, then the only reason would be the fact you couldn't let go of your regular scummy playstyle. In which case you can blame no one but yourself.

Ok, so I gave an honest response. Should I start lying to you instead? Again, you're paranoid. I've thought out all of my posts, call WINE if you want, but I'm not trying to deceive anyone.

Do you feel bad that you didn't

lynch

me during

N1

?

What the-?

Didn't understand what I was implying? Really?

Let DC respond, I want to see how he reacts.

"Oh, god! You voted! I'm sure you aren't scum now "
Is that what you expect me to say? Obviously voting now, especially as you are quite cornered, will change nothing.[/area]

Um, no. I just expected you to become more enraged. I didn't post to clear my name in your book.

You know DarkClaymore, you're starting to please me. You have funny arguments.

[Honest Abel]

whilst, you are just arguing with DC. If you are town, please start convincing us/me, because I'm nearly ready to see you lynched. You might be able to do this by giving an unbiased look at the game and players, giving good reasons to go after someone other than DC, and then doing so. Your posts are reactive to DC, which doesn't strike me as protown.

[Bricktoes]

Where did you get the idea that I had any intention to hammer or had whilst was in my top two?

Because the only interaction you've had with anyone outside of DC is whilst, and it seemed like you were suspicious of him or pointing out contradictions.

I admit I got a lot more sidtracked than I intended, but I've only brought up whilst recently in comparison with IAI, which is why that struck me.

[DarkClaymore]

Glad you accept it, perhaps now you can move on. 1. I'm not harming the town, please point out how I am in your mind. 2. No I'm not playing lynchbait. I don't know why that would help me. 3. I'm not making myself look suspicious, you are convincing yourself that I am. And it's all been pointless remarks about how you don't like how I'm pleasing everyone or how I put you high on my scum list. You have a personal problem with me. I want you to stop arguing with me, and move on.

1. I already said how. By making yourself suspicious. What part of it you didn't get?
2. But players tell you that they think your are suspicious because of the way you play. Even I stopped and I

was

playing an intended lynchbait from D2.
3. Contradicting yourself + not listening to the opinions of others when they tell you that you are misleading the town. Don't you find this suspicious? What would you find suspicious then? Nothing? Like what you said you have on me? How exactly are you planning to play when nothing is suspicious?

Yeah, I didn't know. But you're still arguing with me about it, so now I do know. It's a problem for you, I'm sorry. You just react to it too much, for no reason. When did I say "I saw this from a mile ahead"? Please don't put words in my mouth, it's unhealthy.

You didn't say that but your playsyle combined with your arguments do. You said you suspected me, yet you didn't do anything to catch me. When I asked why, you said "because I think you lynchbait play is BS". Thing is, when you were suspecting me at first - I WASN'T playing lynchbait yet. You are just trying to cover up for your lack of action with a reason that only could come much latter. There is a thing called timeline and you miscalculated that.

What's the difference between L-3 and saying "i think these guys are scummy, here's a list" -- almost nothing. Are three people going to hammer you? No. I'm sorry you don't see the logic, but maybe you will learn to in the future.

Then what was the point of putting me on the list if you say you didn't suspect me? Answer this and I'll agree that perhaps there was no big difference whatever you voted or not.

Didn't understand what I was implying? Really?

I didn't get whatever you were talking about D1 lynch or N1 kill.

You know DarkClaymore, you're starting to please me. You have funny arguments.

And you have stupid ones. And I rarely ever insult people I don't know.

[whilst]

whilst, you are just arguing with DC. If you are town, please start convincing us/me, because I'm nearly ready to see you lynched. You might be able to do this by giving an unbiased look at the game and players, giving good reasons to go after someone other than DC, and then doing so. Your posts are reactive to DC, which doesn't strike me as protown.

I'm ready to stop arguing. I've told him to move on, I just don't want him to leave his questions unanswered. I'm going to look at IAI's posts abut cavjj again and maybe start something there. Did anyone besides NS even respond to IAI?

[whilst]

Glad you accept it, perhaps now you can move on. 1. I'm not harming the town, please point out how I am in your mind. 2. No I'm not playing lynchbait. I don't know why that would help me. 3. I'm not making myself look suspicious, you are convincing yourself that I am. And it's all been pointless remarks about how you don't like how I'm pleasing everyone or how I put you high on my scum list. You have a personal problem with me. I want you to stop arguing with me, and move on.

1. I already said how. By making yourself suspicious. What part of it you didn't get?
2. But players tell you that they think your are suspicious because of the way you play. Even I stopped and I

was

playing an intended lynchbait from D2.
3. Contradicting yourself + not listening to the opinions of others when they tell you that you are misleading the town. Don't you find this suspicious? What would you find suspicious then? Nothing? Like what you said you have on me? How exactly are you planning to play when nothing is suspicious?

1. All right, I forgot you convinced yourself about me.
2. I'm glad you admit your faults. I've given them proper responses to their inquiries too. If they have a problem with me, they will bring it up. If they didn't think my response to your questions was adequate, they would've said so.
3. I've explained any and all contradictions you've brought up. You don't want to believe my explanation, OK. And no, I'm listening to everyone--and you know I am. I've been actively posting and keeping up with every discussion. I never said "nothing is suspicious". I never implied it either.

Yeah, I didn't know. But you're still arguing with me about it, so now I do know. It's a problem for you, I'm sorry. You just react to it too much, for no reason. When did I say "I saw this from a mile ahead"? Please don't put words in my mouth, it's unhealthy.

You didn't say that but your playsyle combined with your arguments do. You said you suspected me, yet you didn't do anything to catch me. When I asked why, you said "because I think you lynchbait play is BS". Thing is, when you were suspecting me at first - I WASN'T playing lynchbait yet. You are just trying to cover up for your lack of action with a reason that only could come much latter. There is a thing called timeline and you miscalculated that.

No I didn't. We're still in D2 , who knows how long this "timeline" will stretch on for. You don't think any of your actions from D1 could qualify you as scummy--that perhaps could've caused me to put you near the top of my scum list?

What's the difference between L-3 and saying "i think these guys are scummy, here's a list" -- almost nothing. Are three people going to hammer you? No. I'm sorry you don't see the logic, but maybe you will learn to in the future.

Then what was the point of putting me on the list if you say you didn't suspect me? Answer this and I'll agree that perhaps there was no big difference whatever you voted or not.

Didn't I put you on the list in the beginning of D2? Why is my list the only one you're unhappy with. You're on other people's lists too, near the top as well. You should be arguing with them too, or is my case just special?

Didn't understand what I was implying? Really?

I didn't get whatever you were talking about D1 lynch or N1 kill.

Lynch = death. N1 lynch = N1 death = N1 kill. I'm sorry I mixed up my words.

You know DarkClaymore, you're starting to please me. You have funny arguments.

And you have stupid ones. And I rarely ever insult people I don't know.

I'm sorry, I won't insult you ever again.