TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[killerjester]

I was honest when I said I'd take it seriously if even one other person agreed with Junpei

[Junpei]

Uh, did he agree with me? I don't know if he did after reading his posts I'm still confused and if so your post clarified nothing for me.

If not, then we'll continue to wait for 1 person to agree I guess.

[Junpei]

Ugh, sorry for double post, but isn't it obvious that out of 23 people at least 1 person will agree with me? It seems silly to make us wait for a serious response.

[Rainbowdash]

@chk - Thoughts on Peregrine, oversoul and Banshee?

None of those three would be my choice lynch for the day.

Lets go beyond "not my top lynch choice" here.

I see no reason to. I am not going substantiate a lynch for people I don't see as threats for the day. What was the ultimate goal of that question?

They are my scum picks. I want you to wiegh in on them. Are they town reads, null reads, your thoughts on what I said about Peregrine/Oversoul already. All those things.

@DX/KJ/silver - Can you guys weigh in on the Peregrine/Oversoul things I have posted as well?

I still really dislike this silver wagon, that one feels really scum driven and dismisses a few decent town tells as simply WIFOM.

[killerjester]

Ugh, sorry for double post, but isn't it obvious that out of 23 people at least 1 person will agree with me? It seems silly to make us wait for a serious response.

What do you want me to tell

you

? You seem to think my failure to point out each and every case of D1 followup is evidence that I was trying to cover it up. Whereas my opinion is the information was common knowledge and I didn't have to point out other people were doing it too. We disagree. It happens. So I'm done trying to convince you.

[David Xanatos]

RD > In a nutshell, I find your peregrine logic pretty solid. Will go over it again in a more sound state of mind and get back to you. Oversoul however I have noted down as being quite dodgy, posts are lacking in content and sparse, he's either flaked or lurking heavily. Wouldn't be happy with a lynch, but he bears investigation if we have someone.

Minor thing I noticed though:

"Death list is upgraded to: Peregrine, andrew, chkballin, Izak, DX and oversoul. In that order."

From you. Why the dislike of an andrew lynch if he was your 2nd top suspect, and what changed that?

Also, not quite sure why you're apparently marking me as "fighting up the death list". Willing to expand on reasoning?

[killerjester]

@DX/KJ/silver - Can you guys weigh in on the Peregrine/Oversoul things I have posted as well?

I can definitely see merit in your Oversoul case. He's been active lurking, not scum-hunting, and if I'm not mistaken..some pretty heavy fence sitting as well.

I was waiting on a reaction from Andrew before doing anything else. So

FoS

Oversoul pretty hard. I'll need some time to mull over Peregrine, as his tells aren't so black in white. This this the case on him you were referring to?

[killerjester]

EBWOP:

@DX/KJ/silver - Can you guys weigh in on the Peregrine/Oversoul things I have posted as well?

I can definitely see merit in your Oversoul case. He's been active lurking, not scum-hunting, and if I'm not mistaken..some pretty heavy fence sitting as well.

I was waiting on a reaction from Andrew before doing anything else. So

FoS

Oversoul pretty hard. I'll need some time to mull over Peregrine, as his tells aren't so black

and

white.

Is

this the case on him you were referring to?

I'm butchering my grammar, sure signs I'm tired. Fixed it in bold though. KJ signing out for the night.

[chkballin]

V/LA until Tuesday

I'm driving down to LA to see HairSpray at the Hollywood Bowl

....if my other head shows up then, idk he's here but as far as I know he's not around either.

~

BALLIN

[David Xanatos]

Have fun. Bring us all back shakycam footage of the entire show.

*Not actually serious. Please don't.*

[Rainbowdash]

RD > In a nutshell, I find your peregrine logic pretty solid. Will go over it again in a more sound state of mind and get back to you. Oversoul however I have noted down as being quite dodgy, posts are lacking in content and sparse, he's either flaked or lurking heavily. Wouldn't be happy with a lynch, but he bears investigation if we have someone.

He is not site flaking. Even a pony with the most basic search skills can tell that. Lurking isn't the main part of my case on him though, which you are failing to comment on. Thoughts about the noncommital stuff?

Minor thing I noticed though:

"Death list is upgraded to: Peregrine, andrew, chkballin, Izak, DX and oversoul. In that order."

From you. Why the dislike of an andrew lynch if he was your 2nd top suspect, and what changed that?

I stopped and thought. The entire case on him is that he might be scum due to the nieghborizing thing. I do trust MoI about night actions and stuff, but at the same time, its PURELY on the chance that MoI has his read correct and that the neighborizers are not both town. Still dislike the wagon on him though.

Also, not quite sure why you're apparently marking me as "fighting up the death list". Willing to expand on reasoning?

Gut read becoming increasingly validated.

@KJ - Thats the one

[David Xanatos]

Being non-commital I find is another symptom of flaking/lurking. And I don't mean site-flaking, if I meant site-flaking I'd have said that, I meant flaking from this game.

As for the second point, it's unlikely there'd be two town neighbourisers, and I simply can't understand why you'd invite someone you have a scum read on. I still would like to know who that was so we can compare it to his views stated in the thread though, otherwise we are relying pretty much solely on MoI. :/

And you do realise that's not tangible reasoning? I'm asking what in particular you're taking issue with, that we might discuss it and share stances. None of us benefit from shutting ourselves up in boxes and staring fixedly out the airholes at people.

[Rainbowdash]

Being non-commital I find is another symptom of flaking/lurking. And I don't mean site-flaking, if I meant site-flaking I'd have said that, I meant flaking from this game.

Its entirely different. The flakiest person can take solid stances, the most active person can never take one.

As for the second point, it's unlikely there'd be two town neighbourisers, and I simply can't understand why you'd invite someone you have a scum read on. I still would like to know who that was so we can compare it to his views stated in the thread though, otherwise we are relying pretty much solely on MoI. :/

Would not be my move to invite scum reads, but I can see the justification behind it actually. You are wording that like relying on solely MoI is a bad thing, but you are already just sheeping on that comment entirely.

And you do realise that's not tangible reasoning? I'm asking what in particular you're taking issue with, that we might discuss it and share stances. None of us benefit from shutting ourselves up in boxes and staring fixedly out the airholes at people.

Its mostly gut, as I already said. When I figure it out more you will be the first to know I can assure you that.

[David Xanatos]

I'm hardly sheeping, given that I was the one originally asking him to do exactly what he did, reveal the one he felt is more likely to be Scum. I'm willing to trust his judgement on that because I can't see him taking such a solid stance without thinking it through, and Andrew's own reaction has made him look rather worse in my eyes, and it's the closest to a solid alignment read we have.

I can't really see the reasoning behind compromising a neighbourhood.. care to explain?

And as I said, it's a symptom of his flaking.. he's not put the time in to actually study the situations, so he's handwaving and hoping to get through to the next prod-dodge. I'd want to find out if he's going to be prodded before we start considering active-lurk. (He already has 3 prods, and this would be his fourth, which would mean a replace.. again.. :/)

[David Xanatos]

Clarification. It appears I've mis-noted on my request(s) to MoI, I was under the impression I'd asked him to name the one he thought was scummier, but I evidently overlooked that. I did however ask him for details et cetera et cetera, and I stand by that I'm willing to trust in his consideration of the case before he named Andrew. And I can finally go to bed! See you all in.. hopefully about 10 hours.

[ThAdmiral]

It's too bad a Junpei lynch is off the table, because oh man this deflection post is golden.

But he wasn't deflecting away from himself. Does that still make it scummy?

but he's deflecting from a wagon on a slot that HE finds scummy. That what makes it bad.

Well firstly that wouldn't make any more sense as scum than it would as town.
Secondly imo he was just pointing out an oversight. I don't think there were any duplicitous motives.


wow, I just looked at oversoul's posting history. He has posted...

238 times

...since he last posted here. That is absolutely astronomical.

(thanks to rainbow for bringing that to my attention)

[jasonT1981]

Oversoul has told me he is on vacation and is V/LA so the prod is rescinded.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD - I'm V/LA til Monday morning for my usual family weekend duties.

[andrew94]

ughh overnight of dota etc ill post tommorrow k.

[vezokpiraka]

This game doesn't make sense to me at all.

Who are we lynching today and why?

[Castle Bravo]

Rodion is reduced to sarcasm and smilies.

Just lynch him. Look at #1701, not the least little piece of reasoning in it, just a whole bunch of complex mumbo jumbo that means nothing. He's an obvious scumbags.

Town needs to continue to vote for Rodion. ThAd's tells are useless.

You're making yourself look pretty bad, Castle Bravo.

You've answered a "Shotty or Silver?" question with a "yes" (valid answers: "Shotty", "Silver", "both") and you are reducing everything I've done so far to "sarcasm and smilies".

I'll check your other games later to see if you usually behave like a VI. If you don't, scum read.

Would yes bear a close resemblance to "Shotty," "Silver," or "Both," Rodion? Maybe, if you think very, very, very hard you could answer this question.

It's amazing how you can waste paragraph after paragraph talking about what other people are saying, and yet cannot even waste six seconds

thinking

about what other people are saying.


This was Rodion's scumclaim. Town thinks about what other townies are saying. Scum looks for reasons to discredit people attacking them.

Where is the wagon on Rodion? Why isn't he lynched yet?

[Castle Bravo]

This game doesn't make sense to me at all.

Who are we lynching today and why?

Cease voting for Zel1nk, vote for Rodion.

We are lynching him because his response to attacks is to divert attention onto other players, make stuff up, not even bother to think about what people are saying, and attempt to call them scummy for attacking him, in that order.

You are voting for him because you are town.

[Castle Bravo]

It's not as confusing as you are painting it to be- so that's noted. I am not saying I am too dumb to read an idiot, I am saying that idiots play like idiots and are generally hard to read if you are someone who has a brain . Andrew plays a game that makes no sense for town IMO, he's made me think he's scum twice and I've been wrong and I've been right. I say his play is unvarying and a little ridiculous.

My read on Rodion is that he isn't a threat and he isn't a day 2 lynch. At best Rodion is a serial killer, but I am almost positive he's town.

How would you have knowledge that lets you determine that a player is either town or a serial killer, but definitely not scum?

What are you hoping to determine from this line of questioning? AND with that, is it beneficial more to town or to scum? It is my belief that the answers you want are more beneficial to scum. General play also shares some weight in my opinion of Rodion...

Now that I have said my piece on Rodion, if you push his lynch and he flips as I suspect- then you will shoot up my suspect list.

I am trying to determine your alignment. I imagine, given your general posting, successful achievement of this goal would most likely be incredibly non-beneficial to the scumteam.

I will push Rodion's lynch to the ends of the earth. Unless something changes, once he is dead, I will push yours. You are a very confusing player, but I have decided it is not a very townie confusion. You play very badly becasue you are not good at scum.

[vezokpiraka]

This game doesn't make sense to me at all.

Who are we lynching today and why?

Cease voting for Zel1nk, vote for Rodion.

We are lynching him because his response to attacks is to divert attention onto other players, make stuff up, not even bother to think about what people are saying, and attempt to call them scummy for attacking him, in that order.

You are voting for him because you are town.

What you just said sounds like a newbie town. Are you sure he is the right lynch? Give me the quote you find scummiest of him.

[Castle Bravo]

Oh so many, pickles.

1 - What's a policy lynch?
2 - Pvt Slate mentioned he's "EST". Did he reference his timezone or something else? If the former, is it common to mention your timezone?
3 - How common are mafia busdrivers here? Zelink said he'd vig Zinger, should we be worried that a mafia busdriver redirects the kill into someone else? I'm still confused as to whether Zelink made a joke when he claimed vig or not and his "sarcasm" was only present when he replied to Oversoul's weird post (Oversoul asked the claimed vig to protect someone - I think it was simply a poor phrasing and he actually asked the doc to protect the vig - or the person the vig promised to kill). Also, if the vig claim is serious, Zelink, would you also name claim so we test the theory on the randomness of roles (a theory you mentioned yourself in #122)?
4 - What's a "PL" (mentioned by Vifam in #145)?
5 - What's an ISO post? It's probably your personal post count, but what does it stand for?
6 - Are vezok and Andew common targets of RVS wagons? Why?

He doesn't know what EST, PL, or ISO stands for. Unfamiliarty with MS terminology (or in the case of EST... human terminology?)

He knows what "VI" stands for well enough to use it in a sentence towards me casually and naturally. I don't think he be so unfamiliar with it as he be representing.

He's buying himself credit by not being familiar with the site. Newbie = nonthreatening = harmless = easy to read = town.


Posts like this be incredible wastes of the town's time that provide lots of words without lots of information:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p3277932

3) MagnaofIllusion - his agressive style can help find scum, but I'm afraid he's blinded by his bloodlust and will throw accusations without good reasons (for instance, check his accusation that David Xanatos fabricated timestamps/posts). Spot on at times, but seems to me like a "diamond in the rough".

5) Pappums Leather Jacket - hydra. Disclosed his heads. I like his posts, but I get the feeling most of them are "safeposts". Would really like to see him participate more.

8) marco1610 - needs to talk more.
9) Pvt Slate crappy - needs to talk more.
10) Nero Cain - needs to talk more. I liked his pressure on Silver.
12) easjo682 - needs to talk more.

These be a stunning insight the likes I could only achieve by reading my local horoscope and checking if Cancer is transiting the house of Posidon.

Whenever someone be talking too much and saying too little, ye be placing a bullet through his skull unless ye wish to find a bullet penetrating thine own cranium. Those be the words of John the Baptist, written in the holy book, and who am I to deny them?

And look how many times he be saying so much with so little.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p3272655

2 - "Why would he claim 3rd-party (anti-town) roleblocker as town?"

First of all, 3rd-party is different from anti-town. There are 3rd-parties that do not hurt the town. The fact that his claimed permanent roleblock could stop a mafia member means his claim is not strictly anti-town. If his claim is to be believed, he has no defined sides. Obviously, blocking a town PR is more likely since by definition there are more townies than mafia members on the game. You do have to weigh, though, that blocking one of the "few" mafia PRs can provide a a pro-town value that is bigger than the anti-town value of blocking one of the "many" town PRs.

Now that I adressed the wrong premise of your question, I'll answer it.

"Why would he claim 3rd-party roleblocker as town?"

Simple answer. To avoid being NKed and thus guarantee more pro-town used of his powers. A gambit. I never said I liked the gambit, but as I earlier stated, saying it makes "zero sense" like you did is stretching it.

And then there is this gem.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p3275852

He tried so very non-hard to defend Zinger for the town cred, sure to remind people that it of course was mathematically possible that Zinger could be town despite claiming to be non-town, and that we cannot ever be sure for man is not wise in the mysteries of the universe badda badda.

Magic 8 ball say "scum be white knighting."