Scummies 2011 Nominations

[zoraster]

Look at that, rc nominating a game he designed and then calling people butthurt when they complain about his chronic design flaws.

Is it that time again?

There's absolutely 100% nothing wrong with a mod nominating people who played in his game for scummies.

The nomination may not be deserved, I do not know. It's fine to dispute it on that basis. But don't try and shame moderators from not nominating those who play in their game. They are well situated to make such nominations.

Obviously they shouldn't be nominating themselves for a nomination, but this appears to be different.

[Katsuki]

The problem here obviously does not lie in the principal of a mod nominating the players in his game.

[DemonHybrid]

you guys are hatin

No, you just want your dumb game to be recognized as someone a scummy-nominated group was in. There was absolutely nothing spectacular about the scum play in this game.

Compare it to the werewolf team I nominated. Did your scum team come from behind (behind meaning 1 person out of their 3 man team was modkilled, and they were up against another mafia team with PRs and a BP SK, as well as town) to win an 8 day game absolutely flawlessly? No? Then there was no use nominating them. Hell, it was a 13 man game and they STILL lost two of their members and they had great powers to boot; I bet you that a shitload of scum would love a mafia beloved princess. That's actually slightly overpowered in the right hands.

[populartajo]

I suggest not accepting nominee suggestions from a cheater.

[DemonHybrid]

I mean, hell, a mafia bookie is considered very strong scum power, and you put in a MAFIA BELOVED PRINCESS, which makes it MANDATORY for scum to have a extra WHOLE night phase (not just a kill), and you think that town had more power? What was going through your mind, RC?

[Empking]

I'm pretty sure its better to have an extra kill than an extra night (most of the time.)

[DemonHybrid]

I'm pretty sure its better to have an extra kill than an extra night (most of the time.)

Bookies can miss. You get that extra kill, sure, but don't forget that there was an SK there (which had a better chance to kill town than scum). There's more of a risk, but there's more of a payoff, and it HAS to happen. Bookies need to predict to get their ONE kill.

[iamausername]

I suggest not

accepting nominee suggestions

allowing continued posting in non-game forums from a cheater.

ftfy

[Magua]

I suggest having this discussion somewhere other than this thread. He nominated it. Done. You disagree with the nomination? Fine. Done. Huge back and forth about it? No. Go to F62.

[Ythan]

Go to F62.

This is a horrible suggestion to throw around for every dispute you see.

[ooba]

Nominate

the scum team from Brave and the Beautiful 2

for

Best Scum Performance

.

They really played an outstanding game, against a buttload of town power, and a cunning SK.

My views on the scum play this game:

(Maybe this should be shared with scummy judges?)

Positives:
- Kast lobbying to get himself flavor-confirmed as a BP Red Riding hood
- Good night actions choices

Negatives:
- From a scum PoV, an early unclaimed daykill meant that they knew an SK was there. So good play would have been to mask the fact that they knew an SK was there - since otherwise the SK would know they are scum. However, that wasn't the case.
- Lack of coordination
-- Surprised by the lack of discussion on fakeclaims. They just went ahead with the mod-provided ones. In particular, suprised by Fitz claiming his fakeclaim when his original rolename (Tinkerbell) would have been better (esp. since one town player had already hinted he knew Fitz was tinkerbell).
-- This line in the QT also hints that some coordiantion was lacking (Post 71 - "Sathoris is under the impression that you submitted a kill, Kast.")
- One slot was completely lurky (Bv+Sathoris)

Overall, I think only Kast played a good scum game - don't think the entire scum team should have been nominated. Also, I think this was a case of town playing badly than scum playing really well so not scummy-worthy in my opinion.

Disclaimer: I am "cunning SK" who lost to the scum team.

---

If you want to continue discussing the balance of the setup, take it to the actual game thread. Also, town did play a shitty game - they'd rather pass it on to RC than look at their own failings. Mafia were slightly overpowered but doesn't excuse poor play.

[Scummies]

i think this is all up to date, starting the second half stuff!

[CSL]

>Sees RC nominating a mafia team for a scummy

>Sees that there was a Mafia Beloved Princess and an inventer JOAT

Not even worth nominating.

[Tarhalindur]

Propose New Scummy: Best New Mod
Propose Split Scummy: Best Role (New) and Best Role (Adaptation)

Best New Mod - We have an award for the best new player to come onto the site, why don't we have an award for good newcomers to the other side of the mod/player fence?
Best Role split - The current Best Role scummy, while labeled "New or Adaptation", is in practice reserved for new roles only (take a look at the 2008 Scummy nominations for good examples of this unwritten rule). The idea here is to reward mods for looking for good ideas that never really came into their own in their original game and using them in a setup that plays them to their hilt - in other words, to encourage repeat uses of innovative roles.

[Mr. Flay]

Agree with Best New Mod - disagree with the other. Best Role is unqualified. If people are using it wrong when nominating, fix that. If it's the setup that really brings the role to its full flower, nominate them for the Best Setup/Mechanic scummies.

::edit:: Best New Mod will need a longer timeframe, obviously. First Game modded (on this site) finishing this calendar year seems sufficient.

[Modding Account]

Hurmph, I was going to suggest Best New Mod.

[Empking]

Personally, I'm not a fan of Best New Mod and that sort of thing. Surely we want the best of the best to be honoured rather than the best of [insert minority group here]?

As somebody who is really interested in new roles, I'd welcome the split in that category because I agree with Tar on its social enginerring potential.

[Mr. Flay]

Hurmph, I was going to suggest Best New Mod.

Modding Hydras don't count unless all heads are new.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think that Best New Mod should be a Body of Work award, like Best Newbie?

[SleepyKrew]

How about a Best Game Modded by a New Mod and a separate BoW award? Or is that too much?

[Tarhalindur]

Agree with Best New Mod - disagree with the other. Best Role is unqualified. If people are using it wrong when nominating, fix that. If it's the setup that really brings the role to its full flower, nominate them for the Best Setup/Mechanic scummies.

Problem is that my opinion is decidedly in the minority for how Best New Role is used, and in any case I think there's a need for something to specifically encourage more mods to look over past games for good designs that can be adapted (similar to the modern policy of reusing mechanics in Magic: the Gathering).

Best Mechanic/Best Setup both seem unsuitable for this, since I think those should be reserved for looking at a setup as a coherent whole.

::edit:: Best New Mod will need a longer timeframe, obviously. First Game modded (on this site) finishing this calendar year seems sufficient.

Concur - that had been my assumption from the beginning, to mirror Best New Player roughly measuring from the point a player started playing games. Might want to keep open an option for lengthening this in the future depending on growth in the Mini Theme queue (where a lot of new mods really come into their own), though.

Hurmph, I was going to suggest Best New Mod.

Modding Hydras don't count unless all heads are new.

That was my idea, yes.

I think that Best New Mod should be a Body of Work award, like Best Newbie?

I thought that was so obvious that I didn't even mention it in the idea submission. (Best New Mod is intended as a nearly-exact mirror of Best Newbie, except that it's for the moderating side of the game and eligibility is adjusted accordingly.)

[Tragedy]

I think that Best New Mod should be a Body of Work award, like Best Newbie?

I thought that was so obvious that I didn't even mention it in the idea submission. (Best New Mod is intended as a nearly-exact mirror of Best Newbie, except that it's for the moderating side of the game and eligibility is adjusted accordingly.)

What if a first-time modplayer modded a game where you have a player list full of inactivity?

[Oversoul]

I think that Best New Mod should be a Body of Work award, like Best Newbie?

I thought that was so obvious that I didn't even mention it in the idea submission. (Best New Mod is intended as a nearly-exact mirror of Best Newbie, except that it's for the moderating side of the game and eligibility is adjusted accordingly.)

What if a first-time modplayer modded a game where you have a player list full of inactivity?

:3

[drmyshottyizsik]

Personally, I'm not a fan of Best New Mod and that sort of thing. Surely we want the best of the best to be honoured rather than the best of [insert minority group here]?

As somebody who is really interested in new roles, I'd welcome the split in that category because I agree with Tar on its social enginerring potential.

[zoraster]

I think Smooth Operator has probably outlived its usefulness as a mod category. In theory, it should be the mod category that would reward newer mods/mods of normal games (the others are all theme game based). But in practice, it's almost always nominated for a moderator who ran a big theme game well. That makes sense as a normal game isn't all that hard to keep up with, post regular vote counts, etc. and so it doesn't usually get recognized in the scummies. It also tends to be one of the less nominated categories.

I think perhaps replacing it with Best New Mod or Best Mini-Normal/Open Moderator would be positive.