Scummies 2011 Nominations

[Mr. Flay]

Wasn't Smooth Operator new just last year? But yeah, it seems a bit like a 'well done, you didn't screw anything up noticeably' sort of award... wouldn't miss it, personally.

Tar: *shrug* The modding awards all overlap significantly anyway, because it's harder to tell where one part ends and another begins.

[zoraster]

Wasn't Smooth Operator new just last year? But yeah, it seems a bit like a 'well done, you didn't screw anything up noticeably' sort of award... wouldn't miss it, personally.

Tar: *shrug* The modding awards all overlap significantly anyway, because it's harder to tell where one part ends and another begins.

Yeah, I guess it was. Then I'm not sure it was ever very useful. I think a category that would reward mini-normal and open moderators would be nice. It probably won't get a ton of nominations because players of those games are a little stingy with them, but it'd be nice to see moderators rewarded for that.

--
While I'm talking about revamping the scummies, I'd suggest moving

Don Corleone

and

Paragon of Mafia Hunters

to the single-game categories. This tends to be how they're nominated and decided anyway... on the basis of single game performances. It's also allows a player to get nominated for more than one game in the same category. Right now, when a player has a second good game, ostensibly that's sort of entered into the equation of the body of work award, but in reality it gets totally overlooked unless the scummy judges actually played in that game.

Best Performance in a Losing Cause

should already be in the single thread/game category.

Most enjoyable poster

seems like an iffy category. We already have a "funniest" category. And we have performance based awards. I don't know where this fits in.

[VP Baltar]

While I'm talking about revamping the scummies, I'd suggest moving Don Corleone and Paragon of Mafia Hunters to the single-game categories. This tends to be how they're nominated and decided anyway... on the basis of single game performances. It's also allows a player to get nominated for more than one game in the same category. Right now, when a player has a second good game, ostensibly that's sort of entered into the equation of the body of work award, but in reality it gets totally overlooked unless the scummy judges actually played in that game.

Well, that seems like a problem from the judges more than a systematic problem. It's not that much work to glance at two or three other games to see if the person is consistently playing well, and imo that should be a factor when determining who wins those really headline awards.

[DemonHybrid]

Wasn't Smooth Operator new just last year? But yeah, it seems a bit like a 'well done, you didn't screw anything up noticeably' sort of award... wouldn't miss it, personally.

Tar: *shrug* The modding awards all overlap significantly anyway, because it's harder to tell where one part ends and another begins.

A lot goes into finding replacements, votecounting on time and dealing with tough issues and how fast you deal with all 3 (not to mention prodding). I think Smooth Operator has a LOT of merit and I'm in support of a Best New Mod.

[zoraster]

Wasn't Smooth Operator new just last year? But yeah, it seems a bit like a 'well done, you didn't screw anything up noticeably' sort of award... wouldn't miss it, personally.

Tar: *shrug* The modding awards all overlap significantly anyway, because it's harder to tell where one part ends and another begins.

A lot goes into finding replacements, votecounting on time and dealing with tough issues and how fast you deal with all 3 (not to mention prodding). I think Smooth Operator has a LOT of merit and I'm in support of a Best New Mod.

Certainly, there's a fair amount that goes into basic moderation.* A good moderator helps a game be fun for her players by being efficient and effective. But I'm not sure that should be enough for an award. And I'm not sure even if it is enough that smooth operators are being nominated because players expect efficient and effective moderation, so it doesn't seem like something they need to award.

*But let's be honest here. Moderating isn't exactly hard. I think I'm one of the very most active moderators in my games. But which is more work once the game actually starts: moderating or playing? It seems pretty clear to me that it's playing. It's a different answer if you include the amount of work that goes into designing a game (it takes me hours and hours on a typical game), but that's not what Smooth Operator is about.

EDIT: And I'll accept VP's points on paragon and don corleone. That said, I think the nomination process for those would be improved if a player could be nominated multiple times for it from different games. Then when the judges confer, they can combine the same nominations from a player.

[xRECKONERx]

I agree that for body of work there should be multiple nominations for the same person encouraged and welcomed so that we can get more of a 'body of work' feel to everything.

[SleepyKrew]

Nominate Reck for Paragon of Mafia Hunters for Psychic Mafia

[xRECKONERx]

I'm already nominated for the category, but thank you anyway.

[SleepyKrew]

I thought we were pushing of enforcing the "Body of Work" part?
(psst... that's not how circlejerk works Reck...)

[Magister Ludi]

Well, if you wanted to amend bodyofwork, it could be a requirement when nominating the player to produce 3 (or more) games where you think that player displayed that quaility (scum hunting or manipulation) for the nomination to go through and be considered.

[SleepyKrew]

That's a good idea. Me likey.

[gandalf5166]

Well, if you wanted to amend bodyofwork, it could be a requirement when nominating the player to produce 3 (or more) games where you think that player displayed that quaility (scum hunting or manipulation) for the nomination to go through and be considered.

I think that will cause the number of nominations to drastically decrease. People generally come out of one game that really impresses them and then make the nomination. I like the idea of multiple nominations much better.

[Mr. Flay]

Multiple nominations for awards seems fine; some players could conceivably only finish one epic game a year, and I don't think they should be disqualified automatically from BoW awards.

[SleepyKrew]

Well then why not have two separate categories for "Body of Work for the Year" and "Epic Single Game"?

[Faraday]

Because. Anyway, it's not like the body of work isn't looked at. Last year we had the players send in their games and stuff so multiple nominations seems really unnecessary, when judges are looking at body of work

anyway

[zoraster]

Look at it from the other side of the fence, Faraday. Someone has an epic game that finishes in November. I'd like that person to get nominated for that game. But hey, some dufus nominated him for a game that he didn't even WIN back in March, so tough luck... the nomination on record will be for that mediocre nomination.

Anyway, judges may well look to the body of work, but in my experience, individual game efforts overrode it. I think there's little harm in multiple nominations that simply get pushed into one nomination at the end of the year. It'll make the list a bit longer, maybe, but that's okay.

[xRECKONERx]

Because. Anyway, it's not like the body of work isn't looked at. Last year we had the players send in their games and stuff so multiple nominations seems really unnecessary, when judges are looking at body of work

anyway

Uhhhh...?

I was nominated for Paragon and Don Corleone last year and not once was I asked to send in games or anything. So either what you just said is total bullshit, or you guys only asked

certain

players to provide their body of work, which means it isn't fair judging.

I think the three games thing might not be the answer, because Paragon is supposed to be a single person. If a single person has a really good game, forcing people to hold onto that nomination until there are two other games where they can roll it all into a single nomination seems pointless. I would recommend some other kind of system, where players can be nominated for body of work awards after only one game, but they're kept in "pending" status until three games are nominated as well. This would cut down on the judge's time and also make sure that each person nominated for body of work is actually getting their fair voice out there.

[xRECKONERx]

And you can look at last year's body of work awards and see that they really only focused on one game. If they're not being presented or judged as such, why bother making it a body of work award?

[SleepyKrew]

Well then why not have two separate categories for "Body of Work for the Year" and "Epic Single Game"?

[xRECKONERx]

The issue is that body of work isn't really being judged at all.

[SleepyKrew]

So make my proposed version of BoW require 3 nominated games.

[xRECKONERx]

No, there's no need for two variations on a single person's performance(s). Chances are, someone who is strong enough to be nominated for one game's performance will probably have other games that can earn them a BoW nomination as well.

[zoraster]

Because. Anyway, it's not like the body of work isn't looked at. Last year we had the players send in their games and stuff so multiple nominations seems really unnecessary, when judges are looking at body of work

anyway

Uhhhh...?

I was nominated for Paragon and Don Corleone last year and not once was I asked to send in games or anything. So either what you just said is total bullshit, or you guys only asked

certain

players to provide their body of work, which means it isn't fair judging.

I think the three games thing might not be the answer, because Paragon is supposed to be a single person. If a single person has a really good game, forcing people to hold onto that nomination until there are two other games where they can roll it all into a single nomination seems pointless. I would recommend some other kind of system, where players can be nominated for body of work awards after only one game, but they're kept in "pending" status until three games are nominated as well. This would cut down on the judge's time and also make sure that each person nominated for body of work is actually getting their fair voice out there.

I agree with your reasoning up until the part about the pending system. That seems more appropriate for a "life time achievement" or "hall of fame" award.

I think the current system is fine. Just allow multiple game nominations, and the problem should be solved. I don't think the answer is to require at least X games. For one thing, would this be applied to third-parties? Would town require more games than scum (since you're more likely to have more repeat plays as town than scum)? Anyway, I have no problem with someone winning if they just have one astounding game. But I also want to make sure that people can get nominated for multiple games they play, even if they can only win the award once.

[xRECKONERx]

Right. I think my main issue here is to make sure people who get nominated for BoW are actually being considered for their entire BoW. Let's say someone has one great game and gets nominated for that (let's call him Player 1). Let's also say someone else has a pretty damn good game and gets nominated for that (let's call him Player 2). Player 1's ONE great game was a fluke, and they played like shit the rest of the year. Player 2's ONE game was good, but he played at a consistently good level the entire year, but nobody bothered nominating him for those games since he was already on the list.

By comparison, Player 1's game is going to beat Player 2's game in a vacuum. So what is "Body of Work"? Is it just the good stuff that gets nominated, while ignoring the bad? Or is it truly a "Body of Work" award?

[SleepyKrew]

I agree with Reckoner.