Mafia 48: Himalayan Mafia - Game over!

[TheCesspit]

Hello.

I have very little to say right now, except to observe and form opinions. But nothing worth saying. Except, I'm here.

[TheCesspit]

Pardon?

tidus sez:

"Weak vote: TheCessPit for not really saying anything."

Which is fair enough as a weka vote, but in my limited experience your damned if say something, damned if you don't, so opted for just syaing, I am here and reading and making impressions.

Which is currently, some people can't read the rules for what they've signed up to.

[TheCesspit]

I think even trying to figure out who the mafia would recruit is a waste of time.

Perhaps - but it's a fabulous way to jump in and discuss the game, right as the game starts, instead of 46 rounds of random votes. Of course, there will be participants like Cesspit who fear sticking their toe in the water... mmmm.

Fear or caution. You can decide. I just thought it better to wave hello and say nothing when I had no real thoughts than stay lifeless.

Now I've had time and the inclination to mull things over, I can surmise the following:

DippingGoofBall looks to be the first target, and their earlier behaviour seems a little odd. However, I'm not sure by the 'I'm going to vote this way but remove it if they might get lynched' brigade. Why not just point some suspicion that way instead?

[TheCesspit]

"DrippingGoofball: Fritzler, Fuldu, Twomz, LoudMouthLee, JamesSparrow, creampuffeater"

Can I suggest with this early bandwagon that at least one of the above is Mafia?

(Yes you can, but really, thats hardly earth shattering).

[TheCesspit]

"DrippingGoofball: Fritzler, Fuldu, Twomz, LoudMouthLee, JamesSparrow, creampuffeater"

Can I suggest with this early bandwagon that at least one of the above is Mafia?

(Yes you can, but really, thats hardly earth shattering).

Yes, you can, but that's hardly earth shattering. It seems that you and I will feel that way, but the majority of others find it "scummy talk". I don't.

Or... DG is scum and we're ALL just really smart townies.

Oh, I include DG in that list as well, of potential Mafia.

[TheCesspit]

I'm non-commital as I have nothing to commit on. I could stand here pointing fingers and shouting 'scum, scum' but that doesn't seem very fruitful. As I understand it, there's no power roles, so even the slightly dodgy tactic of causing bandwagon's to get a role-claim or two going doesn't seem worth while.

I've noted tat I think there's at least one Mafia among the 6 voters and DrippingGoofball herself.

I've also queried that some people are 'voting but will remove if the bandwagon grows'. Which I just don't understand, and still don't. JamesSparrow was one of those stating that.

So, as they appear on both the list of people that are voting for DG, and making an odd/scummy statement:

FoS: JamesSparrow

Hows that, bit more commitment.

Also, for what it's worth, I don't agree that the bandwagon on you is either all Mafia or all non-Mafia. Why do you theorise such? How would you know?

Cheers!

[TheCesspit]

I've also queried that some people are 'voting but will remove if the bandwagon grows'. Which I just don't understand, and still don't. JamesSparrow was one of those stating that.

Pressure-votes, but they're trying to avoid a speedlynch, I expect.

Which I can understand in role-based game. But not here. I'm not sure what pressure you can apply usefully. It looks slightly scummy and not very helpful to me.

I am willing to be corrected.

[TheCesspit]

Pressure-votes, but they're trying to avoid a speedlynch, I expect.

That is accurate, I wanted to show my stance, but make it clear that I wasn't going to be supporting a rash, speedy lynch. I saw that the bandwagon was already growing fast.

I assume now it's stalled your happy to keep your stance that way?

Surely you can show your stance by posting, rather than voting?

[TheCesspit]

Hez is saying that tidus's post seems suspicious, but that it doesn't really mean anything until we know the alignment of one of those three people. I'd argue that on Day One of a game without power roles, that's a reason to try to start a bandwagon on one of those three people, probably the center, tidus. But I think it looks more like just a mediocre and somewhat newbish post rather than actual ties between the three of them, so I'm disinclined to help him out in that direction.

So then, The DG wagon has pretty much stopped. This feel awfully similar to the 5 year game. I feel, since we have the time, we start a new bandwagon. My pick, although Tidus looks suspicious, is MoS. He sits here, cries about how great he is, and lurks. I dislike his play style immensely. However, when he's forced to post, he can give the town some well needed info. Let's give him a reason to come out and play. We can see if there's a connection between Tidus, MoS and Cesspit.

Unvote, but IGMEOY: DG and Vote: MoS

I urge everyone to do the same.

PS: I believe we have AT LEAST 1 scum in the group of Tidus, Cesspit, DG and MoS. If you don't agree, make me think otherwise. I still think DG made a booboo when she "semi-cleared" Fritzler, as stated in my pbpa, but since we stalled, I can wait.

Okay, I've done something stupid to make people think I'm scum.

I am happy with JamesSparrow's explanation. I guess it's my shallow naviety there.

UnFoS: JamesSparrow

So following this idea of pressure voting, and because I need to give some sort of show of Pro-town behaviour:

Vote: MastermindOfSin

Silence isn't golden, as LML rightly says.

I've no idea why Tidus thinks I'm suspicious, aprt from being non-comittal, purely based on my previous experience of committing in later days has lost town games, and I'd hate it to be all my fault -again-.

[TheCesspit]

So your voting for me for the same reason as I'm voting for MasterOfSin?

Odd.

[TheCesspit]

Actually i believe what TSA was doing is typically called a "Parody" or a "joke."

Mod: can we have a vote count?

It makes no sense. He's been lurking, and then votes for me as a lurker, where I've made several contributions, even they haven't been of the high level that others have had. I made my reasons clear in the post, and in previous posts I had been talking about other topics.

I'm interested in other's opinions on TSAGod.

I'm sorry my statement disturbs you. It's quite simple. I have had stick for being non-comittal and anti town. I had asked JamesSparrow about one of his votes, not undertsanding how it could be construed to be pro-town. It looked summy to me.

Instead I got a good answer on how exerting pressure via voting can help uncover scum. Follow the thread, it's there. I hadn't thought of it in this direction before. It makes sense. Once LoudMouthLee (*) started a 'pressure bandwagon' on MasterofSin, I thought it might help to show some commitment to the cause, and vote for a lurker.

Now, the way I figure it is this: if someone's not talking, then we can tell nothing about them. If they are town, then they aren't helping the town and thus might as well be anti-Town. I understood two of the general rules for Town where:

1) Don't lie.
2) Keep talking.

He's remiss in item 2. Hopefully I'm doing 2. I know I'm doing 1.

On other business:

LoudMouthLee : He's not down as voting first for MasterOfSin. This is a mistake surely? I'm not quite sure if he has any bandwagon will do attitude, more trying to get something from everyone.

DrippingGoofball : I get no feeling of bad guy from her.

HezLucky : I was worried about there comment "but its ultimately Tidus who I want to go after.", but on it was misread it, and it is consistent. I know I'm Town (natch), so therefore if the theory on linkage's is correct, Tidus and MasterOfSin are scumbuddies. This should also be kept an eye on.

Which means I'm happy to keep my vote where it is for the time being.

Tidus : See above.

[TheCesspit]

Wow this game has gotten much wierder....

Unvote DG, Fos: Tidus and TheCesspit

I think that TheCesspit is scummier, because I just dont understant where he is going with that pressure vote thingy, pressure votes always seem to work when I see them. Also the whole we are voting him for why he voted MoS seems like he tried to direct attention to MoS not himself. Tidus isnt much better, but I do not find him as scummy as TheCesspit. I will refrain voting for now uuntill I can better understand this crazy situation we are in.

Sigh, I seem to be getting myself in difficulties, which really worries me in case I get lynched for it. However, if you feel that lynching me may allow you to uncover scum, thats fine.

I didn't understand Pressure Voting. I do now. I thought pressure votes of the -form- JamesSparrow stated his in was scummy. I have since learnt from several people my view was wrong, and I accept it.

LoudMouthLee then started a pressure vote on MasterOfSin. Having just grapsed the concept of the pressure vote, I went along with it, and stated that was my reason. I had also been accused of by non-commital and anti-town, so noted that as well. Perhaps I shouldn't have spelt it out.

TSAGod made a joke of it, which I didn't get. I still don't, and think there's been a lack of reading what I have contributed in the past by some people, or my failure to communicate effectively. I am not sure which.

TSAGod didn't vote you for the same reason you voted MoS
He voted you because you said you needed to show pro-town behavior.
He just said he was voting you to show pro-town behavior too to mock you.
It has been later explained by TSAGod himself, Fuldu and Twomz and your insistence in not understand (points to bold part of the quote) is even more suspicious than your initial post. Looks like your are trying to discard his theory by explaining why the joke is wrong. Not the real vote.

vote: TheCesspit

So a second person whose been pretty quiet comes out and votes for me.

I feel well and truly mocked now.

[TheCesspit]

I personally find no reason to vote for theCesspit at this time.

My reason to vote him has nothing to do with his remark on trying to look pro-town.
I'm voting him because TSAGod voted him presenting an argument and making a joke.
theCesspit has been constantly ignoring the argument and defending from the joke.

Okay, the arguement is that a lurker-vote does not make you pro-town? I thought I'd gone through this. I am well aware that a lurker-vote ON IT'S OWN does not make one pro-town. But nor does commenting on making a lurker vote make one pro-town.

As if my the arguments of people who do not post a lot were less worthy, as if they were reading less too.

That wasn't my comment. I just feel it's odd that two people who've contributed very little have voted for me, with little else to add apart from commentary on my actions. No-one elses.

Your lack of comments makes no value assumption on the argument contain within. Reading lots and commenting little looks the same as reading little and commenting little. This doesn't mean your scum or town, but I fail to see how it's -helpful-.

Which was is my attack on both arguements.

unvote

Finger Of Suspicion : Dead Rikimaru, MasterOfSin

Tactic: Pick the weakest arguement around, smell inexperience and attack that one person. Which is looks to be me. As stated earlier, if I'm lynched, hopefully it'll not be in vain as it will show up Scum.

[TheCesspit]

TSAGod didn't vote you for the same reason you voted MoS
He voted you because you said you needed to show pro-town behavior.
He just said he was voting you to show pro-town behavior too to mock you.
It has been later explained by TSAGod himself, Fuldu and Twomz and your insistence in not understand (points to bold part of the quote) is even more suspicious than your initial post. Looks like your are trying to discard his theory by explaining why the joke is wrong. Not the real vote.

vote: TheCesspit

So a second person whose been pretty quiet comes out and votes for me.

I feel well and truly mocked now.

would you rather he didn't post?

Not at all. Not at all. Just stating that two people have come out and slapped what they view bad play/behaviour and mentioend little else.

[TheCesspit]

you only wish I had claimed to be scum. Since the game had gotten through the first few pages before I realized it had started, I designed my first post purposefully, in order for people to catch it and start some real discussion.

I think MoS is too clever by a half. Reasoning in retrospect has its advantages, I guess.

The problem is... MoS hasn't given me a single solitary reason to unvote him.

I have a problem with "Joke" posts... as they generally come from scum.

Fritzler, What number was the LML vs. Turbovolver mini?

I said in that game, joke posts come from scum, and i still feel the same way now.

Vote's not moving.

nOOB 193, if it's the one I'm thinking off, that I acted hastily in and got you lynched Day 1. Hence my previous reticence of over-committing early.

[TheCesspit]

Let me explain carefully so you understand:

Thanks.

Okay, the arguement is that a lurker-vote does not make you pro-town?

No.
The problem is not what you did. (in this case, voting)
The problem is the reason you gave: "Im going to do this to look pro-town".

You said:

and because I need to give some sort of show of Pro-town behaviour:

That's the reason of TSAGod's vote on you.(but not the reason of my vote)

You said you wanted to look pro-town.

That part is what made him vote you. Not who you voted and if he was a lurker or not.

So, why am I voting you?
I'm voting you because everytime you defended you omitted the real reason he voted you.

Okay, I'm snipping the rest because I finally get it. The pro-town was a throwaway comment. However, it's landed me in acres of trouble. I am being slow, as I really didn't understand that was it. Realy really didn't.

Now, this is where I get jumped on. Stupid votes coming in. I just explained my reason for coming straight onto the idea of voting MasterOfSin badly.

Reading lots and commenting little looks the same as reading little and commenting little.

No.
Reading lots mean you know lots
Reading little means you know little.
Reading little and commenting lots means you post nonsense
Reading lots and posting lots means either that you have lots to say or that you speak lots of useless things "to look protown"
Reading lots and posting little means you have less time than you would like to but is aware of whats going on and that everytime you post it will actually be content.

No. In this case I think you miss my point. If someone makes a few comments, regardless of their quality, it does not tell us if they've read a lot or a little. It merely tells us that they've read enough to make a good comment. It is impossible to tell from the amount someone posts if they are reading a lot or a little. Thats it. You do have to judge the content of the post.

UnFos: Dead Rikimaru

Just one angry townie. In fact, I'm almost certain he's Town, as a Scummer would try and use my idiocy for their own ends.

[TheCesspit]

Cesspit then amends to say that DG could be one of the "at least one mafia" on the wagon. This just strikes me as weird.

I said that there was at least one person in that list (DG and the wagon) who was Scum. It was followed up by a comment that it could be that everyone on the wagon was an astute Townie and DG was scum. I was said that I had considered this in my original comment, but possibly didn't make it clear.

Hopefully that wasn't that weird. Other people also gave other theories on the matter, which ranged from 'it's all scum' to 'it's all town and the scum love it'.

So not really the most useful of topics. I still think one of those people is Scum. I have no idea which!

[TheCesspit]

Basically you echo my thoughts, with the added knowledge that I'm not Mafia (TM) and therefore know if one of the two people out of MoS and me is mafia, it's not me.

Vote: MasterofSin

I realise that this is exactly what scum would say as well. If the group wishes to choose me instead of MoS, I can understand that as I haven't really helped much and some of my play has looked scummy. If you do decide to lynch me, then I'd hope it would work as a scum trap.

[TheCesspit]

Either Hezlucky was right, and the mafia didn't want him to voice his opinion, or Hezlucky was right and the mafia wan'ted to throw us off w/ WIFOM, or Hezlucky was wrong and the mafia wanted to throw us off w/ WIFOM...

Haha. That's EXACTLY what I thought when I saw this. But frankly, I get very Townie vibes from MoS. I'm not even going to suggest that we should lynch one of Cesspit or MoS automatically. MoS's biggest sin seems to have been absent for a while. Starting with post 178, he's starting to sound VERY Townie to me, and correctly VOTES for tidus. That was the first vote for tidus, after Hez's vote. Furthermore, tidus defended himself, and MoS posted that the defensive post RE-INFORCED his vote for tidus. That does NOT strike me as a scum move from MoS.

Interestingly...

(1) Yesterday, Fritzler ignored the tidus bandwagon started by his friend Hez, voting for MoS instead. That's right! Fritzler ignored the scumwagon, and voted for someone who appears very Townie (to me at least)!

Hadn't spotted that. Interesting. But then, so did I ignore the scumwagon. At least externally. In fact what happened was I thought tidus had been lynched so didn't add anything to the vote.

I don't think me being the 1th 12th or 13th vote would have added to the evidence on either side of the balance for or against me.

(2) Today, Twomz wants to vote for MoS to follow Hez's "logic" - a logic that I'd rather call "folklore." There may be some truth to it, but no science to back it up. Also, yesterday, Twomz did NOT for tidus. He had his vote on MoS.

Twomz and Fritzler both didn't vote for tidus. Which could be a sign of not voting for their scum buddie. Which I can see adds to DG's assessment.

(3) Cesspit rushes in to vote for MoS, too, weighing in on Twomz... despite being himself compromised by tidus.

Weghing in on? Do you mean, agreeing with? Yep. My thoughts were the same. If HezLucky's folklore is correct (and half of it was), then one of either MoS or TheCesspit is scum. If we assume HezLucky is correct, then I must assume MoS is scum.

The flaw in this is assuming HezLucky is correct, of course, without looking at the assumption of MoS guilt being correct or not.

It's possible that MoS has turned to be a pure Townie to create cover. It's possible he is actually pure Townie because he is Town. I agree that his play in the later thread gives nothing away, but early it doesn't look good to me.

I'll leave my vote for now, but by all means debate me or others. If the debates throws up a scummier player, I reserve the right to move my vote.

I am acutely aware I've played badly in day one and created far more suspicion that a townie should. So I'm not surprised at the situation I find myself in.

Note on 'rushing' : Merely being here when the thread opened up and spotting somethign I wanted to respond to. Thats all.

So... who will I vote for? Cesspit, Fritzler or Twomz?

Eenie, meenie, minie, mo...

These 3 are scummier than MoS by several orders of magnitude.

[TheCesspit]

Hi all,

I will be away for the weekend, so please don't expect too much input fro me.

Thanks.

[TheCesspit]

I will be away for the weekend, so please don't expect too much input from me.

It kind of sucks that both of my main suspects can't respond for a while (although Cesspit says he'll be back saturday).

unvote

for now. Once everyone's back to posting we can revisit this train of thought.
.

I didn't, I said I'd be away over the weekend. I'm back now (Sunday evening, GMT) and catching up.

Reading through, but thought I'd clear this up as soon as I saw it.

[TheCesspit]

Been through. Not much to add right now as it's late. Except:

unvote

I think Hez's theory is wrong now.

There's nothing scummy about MoS I've seen today, and the nightkill was an attempt to give creedence to his logic so myself or MoS was lynched Day 2.

[TheCesspit]

@ Fuldu: Very well put *applause*

@ Cesspit: Your last post sounded to me like "When MoS gets killed and turns up town, i can point back to this to look less scummy." Although mafia killing Hez in a fit of WIFOM to get us to waste a lynch was one of my 3 reasons the mafia might have killed Hez.

This only strengthens my belief that one of Cesspit or MoS is scum... but, i think it's safe to pursue other routes for now, and come back on them later, after more evidence has been presented (hopefully narrowing the choice of which one is scum).

I suppose it's a case of what ever I do is wrong here. MoS hasn't acted scummy at any point except for his inital posts.

I have from the comments made.

Thus the reflection is if Hez is correct, one of me and MoS is scum. Only one of us has been commeted on as scum excessively. Thus it leads that if Hez is right, I must be scum.

Except I (and the 3 living scum) know that I am not. This leads believe that my initial assessment of Hez being correct is wrong, thus my vote is the wrong place.

So I unvoted.

Now, it could be I want to use this as a case for myself later. But to be hoest, I still expect to be the lynchee today, as there's enough people gunning for me due to my bad play. I wouldn't use that comment as evidence later that would make me less scummy. In fact, how could it?

I make a conjecture that looks to be false and then revise it as it now seems false. My revision of a conjecture would hardly be any sort of proof to make me less scummy, as some people would still say "well, Hez was killed, and he said one of you two were scum, so hence if it's not MoS, it's you", despite my now -belief- that it's wrong.

[TheCesspit]

My 3 main suspects are Cesspit, Fritzler and Twomz.

Since I expressed this opinion, Twomz unvoted MoS in favor of Cesspit, distancing himself from Cesspit after Cesspit cast a copycat vote on MoS following Twomz's lead.

Twomz votes TSAGod now, smelling a bandwagon?

<snip>

MoS FOSs Twomz. Erm - why not a vote? Check this out:

Vote: Twomz

Twomz has taken several oppurtunities to attack me, and switch votes happily between wherever they can be some steam.

He also posted a mis-leading note about my return date (could have been a mistake, but I never mentioned a day at all).

Plus DG's comments above.

It'll probably still be me at the end of the day, but:

Vote: Twomz

[TheCesspit]

Hmmm.

Pooky's promise of the huggle alliance and then no post bugs me.... It looks to me like day 1 type posting... put stuff in whip people up and see what settles. Except it's day 2, and I'm no sure that's useful. I'd still REALLY like to see what he was going to say.

LML has said that he's good at spotting Mafia through (il)logical flaws, but I've seen no evidence of that yet. Possibly because, apart from lloyd's post, there's not been much from him to attack?

Lloyd comes out with a long well referenced post. I agree with some of those points and he's convinced me to keep a good eye on LmL.

MoS claims he doesn't need to give evidence for a vote or give a reason beyond "gut feeling". While he not trying to convince anyone else, isn't it reasonable to expect something in his gut feeling so we can understand the motivation for future reference?

DGB seems solid in her arguements to me.

unvote: twomz

, as i can't recall why I voted in the first place and need to re-read.

Pooky

for reasons given above.

[TheCesspit]

To confirm:

Vote: pooky

[TheCesspit]

I see no reason to change, but I'd like to examine LML/DGB/Fritzler triumvarate more tomorrow.

[TheCesspit]

The amazing lack of reasoning evident in the bandwagon on me is absolutely astounding.

You know life's headed downhill when some guy with 7 one line posts that's contributed nothing can get away with laying down the 5th vote on some1 for "not contributing"

Glad you've all decided to be reasonable about this.

Hmmm, I would have expected by now some sort of analysis from your good self, putting your own unique bran of humour on the situation.

The lack of reasoning from yourself is worrying as well, you realise?

[TheCesspit]

unvote

Pooky makes many many good points, especially about lurkers.

I've tried to contribute regularly, as time permits.

I am now, however confused how to vote. Pooks analysis of DGB raises a few queries, and I think he mentioned her building friendships. I've seen that before as a scum-tactic and got burnt. But this could also be paranoia.

LML has been very quiet since his 'bet'. I like Lloyd's logic (all I know of his play style is that he breaks down games well.)

Player list with last post:

broomhead - 2 days
creampuffeater - 1 day
Dead Rikimaru - 0 days
DrippingGoofball - 1 day
Fritzler - 5 days
Fuldu - 7 days
JamesSparrow (Replacing Hallisy) - 8 days (with gone for a week notice)
kirbyphreak (Replacing logicticus) - 5 days
LoudMouthLee - 7 days
Mastermind Of Sin - 1 day
PookyTheMagicalBear (Replacing Mini Neo) - 0 days
Mr. Flay - 3 days
neongrey - 0 days
RandomActs - 4 days
TheCesspit - 0 days
Lloyd (Replacing Thoth) - 0 Days
TSAGod - 11 days (posted elsewhere since)
Twomz - 4 days
Yosarian2 - 2 days


If this helps. It doesn't actually say much about content. Just how long since information.

On that list, I did spot that Kirbyphreak has voted twice, once for tidus and once for Pooky, both times when the vote looks to be going those people way. I'd label it as Interesting Behaviour.

I believe one of him and MoS is scum... and i think there's a better chance of Cess being scum. Since the point of being town is to lynch the scum... that's where my vote is going. I suggest anyone that agrees w/ my logic (or Hez's logic... w/e) should follow suit.

Also as noted by others, this was odd. I thought we'd delved through that argument already.

In the end my analysis is severly limited by my lack of experience, but I find Kirbyphreak and Twomz 'persons of interest' and LML bet as 'something I'd like to see resolved'.

Just not sure whether to call his bluff and vote HIM, or vite DGB to see if he's right.

I'll poner a while.

[TheCesspit]

Vote Count:

PookyTheMagicalBear- 4 (Dead Rikimaru, Yosarian2, kirbyphreak, Mr. Flay)
LoudMouthLee- 4 (Lloyd, TSAGod, Fuldu, DrippingGoofball)
DrippingGoofball- 3 (LoudMouthLee, Fritzler, Mastermind of Sin)
TheCesspit- 1 (Twomz)

Not voting (7): broomhead, creampuffeater, JamesSparrow, neongrey, RandomActs, TheCesspit, PookyTheMagicalBear

10 to lynch, 5 at deadline.


we should probably pile some more votes on DGB

Shouldn't the GM be the only one posting the votes?

Isn't a bit off to post vote count and then add a bit of editorial?

[TheCesspit]

Well, we're heading for a deadline, and it seems like no one else is going to follow me to TSA right now, so I guess I'll join one of the bandwagons that might have a better chance to go somewhere today. I still really think we need to hear more from TSA, though, and if he dosn't start participating more I'll probably vote for him again tommorow.

(shrug) Anyway, based on my current gut feelings, out of the top 4 bandwagons, the 2 bandwagons I like the best are the Fritzer bandwagon and the Pooky wagon.

unvote:TSAGod

vote:Pooky

Strange change of vote there by Y2, I must say, though. He liked the Pooky/Frtzler bandwagons, would like to vote TSAGod for lurking and then pops DGB out of the blue.

I'm not sure Y2 is 'lurker scum' if you look back. They've posted consisently.

They maybe scum, naturally, but not sure this is the lurkerscum Pooky was talking about.



I

[TheCesspit]

Vote Count:

PookyTheMagicalBear- 4 (Dead Rikimaru, Yosarian2, kirbyphreak, Mr. Flay)
LoudMouthLee- 4 (Lloyd, TSAGod, Fuldu, DrippingGoofball)
DrippingGoofball- 3 (LoudMouthLee, Fritzler, Mastermind of Sin)
TheCesspit- 1 (Twomz)

Not voting (7): broomhead, creampuffeater, JamesSparrow, neongrey, RandomActs, TheCesspit, PookyTheMagicalBear

10 to lynch, 5 at deadline.


we should probably pile some more votes on DGB

Shouldn't the GM be the only one posting the votes?

Isn't a bit off to post vote count and then add a bit of editorial?

why the hell can't i post one? i want to know who has how many votes so i did my own, why not give it to you guys? I just used his format so i wouldn't have to change it

no, im a player, not a mod

It was a distraction. The editorial was the bit that concerned me.

Not the -content- of the editorial, but it's existence.

There's other players I suspect more of being scum, but attention seems to be on the 'names' right now.

Fritzler/Pooky/BGB/LML seem to be in some four-way punch up. Orignally I thought Pooky was the bad man, but not sure at all.

LML is quieter than my limited expectations of him would suggest. I still await him making the hits with his scumdar that he proudly claims.

Fritzler is just like my (again) limited experience expects, and I see no reason make him 'the play'.

Then there's DGB. On one hand they seem to be the most voal person here, helpful and eager. On the other, there's a few bits and pieces noted by others that make me suspicious enough...

Vote: DrippingGoofball

[TheCesspit]

FOS: twomz

I really hope DGB comes up scum so I can lynch you next.

Ditto.

[TheCesspit]

Yes without editorial in the same post.

IMHO

[TheCesspit]

unvote

vote: Fritzler

That's the single scummiest thing I've read this day.

As we don't know your 'side' your misleading someone.

[TheCesspit]

so i should put the phrase unofficial before it?

Yes. The Mod makes official vote counts because the Mod is a disinterested party. if your VC had been "off" by one vote (accidentally or otherwise), and someone got lynched (accidentally or otherwise) as a result, wouldn't that be a poor result?

I've made them before, but I believe I've always put "Unofficial", or "Back of the envelope", or some other way of designating them as being player-based. I didn't even realize yours was a non-official count at first, until I noticed your name on my second read-through. It's not the cleverest scum ploy, when/if it happens, but it's not implausible. The appearance of impropriety is bad for your reputation. That said, Cesspit's apparent overreaction is noted.

I don't think I over-reacted. You've just had someone say he willing to mislead people, and happy he's done so for his 'side'. I was under the impression that Town shouldn't mislead anyone.

The only players who know whose on their side is the Scum.... It's the clearest sign I've had all day in this game for scum. Maybe it's too obvious.

I was just about okay with my DGB vote. I don't think she's definite scum, but she's was the best of the options given the arguments proposed. At worst her lynch would give us the most information. At best it's 2 scum down.

Then Fritzler pipes up with something that is far clearer. Of course I'm going to react to it and make it clear.

(Now I'll probably be slated for defending my reaction too much )

[TheCesspit]

RA, Twomz's vote was the one that put DGB at 6 votes, if he had not voted for DGB, then LML and DGB would've been tied at 5 and Lee lynched since he reached 5 votes first, why would you say Goofball's lynch was a done deal b4 he put his vote on there?

Actually, you put the 6th vote on DGB, Twomz put the seventh on. I then moved what was the fifth vote from DGB to Fritzler for what I think is still a scummy tactic of 'creating confusion for my side'.

DGB looked to be all but lynched by the time Twomz voted.

Oh, and:

Vote: Fritzler

Just to continue where I was yesterday.

[TheCesspit]

[quote "RandomActs"]
Others have confirmed that Twomz vote was practically after-the-fact. I believe my reasoning is sound on that point.
[/quote]

Others being me and me only, I think, and Pooky points out that it would be wrong to dismiss this as "as finishing something already done" (Pooky's words).

This looks like deflection onto Twomz or anyone else he can find.

I still don't like Fritzler's vote counts but:

unvote, Vote: RandomActs

[TheCesspit]

I still don't like Fritzler's vote counts but:

you don't like that i told people to lynch scum

noted

You know perfectly well that this isn't my issue. You know perfectly well that my problem is your happiness,as you admit it, to confuse 'the other side' with no knowledge who would be affected by your confusion UNLESS you were scum.

Evidence seems to point against my call of scum as the right person went, but I still say causing confusion like you did with vote counts combined with editorial is a problem.

By all means lynch me tomorrow. You'll get a townie and make the game last a bit longer, but if it helps you eliminate questions, go ahead. I've said this for some time. I won't defend myself if I get lynch-wagoned. I have no clues as to the last scummer, as those I think are summy are being shown to be correct in finding scum.

[TheCesspit]

Easy play by the Mafia. Go back to the 'one of those two is scum' kill the better townie of the two, and get the town to easily lynch the one whose raised eyebrows.

Lets face it, if I WAS scum, would I make it that easy, or even I agree to make it that easy? WIFOM, but my only defence right now.

I'd say the two people who've voted me already today should be the first two to look at tomorrow. I'd also look at whomsoever suggested the RA lynch on day two before DGB went... I'll go back and check later, to tired right now.

Play on, if you want more comments, just rattle my cage.

[TheCesspit]

First note: "Good scum hunting, LML!"

Hmmm...Random Acts has lurked pretty hardcore, and FOS's tidus but never voted for him.

Yeah, I think a RA-DGB scumgroup seems quite possible, with the way RA suddenly showed up to push the LML bandwagon once DGB was in danger, but just lurked up until that point.

one of them being a recruitee makes a lot of sense too, sense they're married and would likely pick the other if they weren't already in the groups

These posts certainly pushed me towards a (foolish) RA vote yesterday.

Also recall that LML's case against DGB (which has since been proven) was when DGB made a slip about Fritzler:

Plus, you know I love you hez, but there are at least three players up there I'd recruit before you.

Including yourself, Fritz?

Warning: NOT a trick question.

Why does it matter if Fritz would be recruited? This post seems to create the idea that Fritz was NOT MAFIA earlier. Do you have that knowledge, DG?

Vote: Fritzler

Of course this maybe the random behaviour that LML has come to love...

[TheCesspit]

As special bonus, I also note JamesSparrow hasn't posted for ages....

[TheCesspit]

I'm less sold on TheCessPit only because he voted for Dripping at a pretty crucial point.

It's not true.
Actually he

unvoted

at a crucial point. He just cast his vote on DGB and them unvoted close to the end.
Yosarian on the other hand only could be scum together with DGB if LML is scum too, because all he needed to save DGB was unvote, that way LML would have been lynched instead.

Actually, I voted AND unvoted at crucial points.

I've already explained my reaons for the unvote.

[TheCesspit]

Actually, I voted AND unvoted at crucial points.

I've already explained my reaons for the unvote.

If you are town you had a reason.

If you are scum you had an excuse.

Fritzler's trying so hard to lynch DGB (he even asked Pooky to vote her, wonder if Pooky would have voted if he didn't) was a great reason (or excuse) to change votes.

Since DGB was Mafia and Fritzler going after Fritzler after that make your unvote of Day 2 look much more like an excuse than a reason.

The point of accusing Fritzler of trying to decieve the town by a "fake vote count" fades when the fact that DGB was scum is taken into consideration.
I would let the mod take care of other players behavior if he considers it abusive. Players should be trying to find scum.

Don't you think thats a rather WIFOM argument?

However, no-one else seems to think the same about Fritzler, and I don't see much other evidence that isn't chasing shadows.

unvote

Pooky and Fritzler are almost certainly up to something with their voting of Mr Flay. However it's beyond me, what ever it is.

Neongrey's vote of Fritzler after me could be seen in two ways, much like my vote. Agreement, or deflection away from the scum partners.

As stated previosuly, I can see exactly why a vote on me is warranted, so I'm kinda of in agreement that either TheCesspit or Neongrey is the right vote today, because the reasons are about the same.

I still think there's something odd about Twomz... but beginning to feel it's the general disdain for my play.

Vote: Neongrey

[TheCesspit]

Also, Cesspit. I don't have General Distain for you... I just think you're scum.

Oh, I don't think you have disdain for me for me, but for my -play-. I don't take it personally, it's been shabby. This makes you think I'm scum. I thought I had found a bad vibe from you making me return the feeling but have decided with a little more experience it's your anti-scum (which if a Townie creates is bad play) stance.

[TheCesspit]

Don't you think you are just escaping to answer the arguments against you as always?

I think I've explained myself several times in several postings. I don't see a single question there to answer or a point that I haven't already.

I am concerned that every single recent post from you (every single post?) is about my behaviour.

I didn't know I had such an admirer.

Cheers.

[TheCesspit]

Hell, no sense in switching my stellar record so far in this game (I don't think I've been on a single successful lynch of either side). I still rpefer Pooky and/or Fritzler at this point, and neongrey is much further down in my view. What's the case, particularly, against them? Not that we don't have some wiggle room to remove suspicious townies, but there's no reason to squander it, is there?

Trying to stay caught up here and in other games. Next post likely Friday, though.

I wouldn't put it past Fritzler and Pooky to try and act as scummy as possible and see if they could get away with it.

[TheCesspit]

I'm staying where I am, just because I think the last two scum are Fritzler and Neongrey.

I have my doubts about Fritzler, mostly as his play is spartan so I just don't ever understand what he's thinking. Only time he ever did say anything much of explnation when he was pushed after the vote counts:

If I get extra authority, im merely helping my side out, by giving us more authority.

I think it's a slip. DGB did say he was most likely to be recruited. Was this a slip as well?

[TheCesspit]

Also, your post 536 was the "reason" for TheCessPit to unvote DGB 6 posts later. This unvoting would have saved DGB, if Fritzler didn't convince Pooky to vote her in post 527.
This interaction between the two of you even puts you higher in my scum list.

This statement contains two problems.

1) Post 536 did not give me the reason to unvote DGB. 542 did it was directly from Fritzler's quote. Are you really claiming that Mr Flay's comments were such that

2) Your claiming my unvote would have saved DGB is also untrue. I placed the tying vote on DGB. To do that as scum is madness as the next vote (Pooky as it turns out) condemns DGB to the lead even I later unvote like I did.

Would I have unvoted if it had been closer? I have no idea, and nor do you. You can't guess what would have happened if history had been different. Or you can, but I don't think it's useful at all.

[TheCesspit]

From post 649:

As stated previosuly, I can see exactly why a vote on me is warranted, so I'm kinda of in agreement that either TheCesspit or Neongrey is the right vote today, because the reasons are about the same.

...

Vote: Neongrey

TheCesspit,

In a game with vanilla townies, how can your comment above help find scum?

Unless you were being sarcastic, it makes you seem scummy.

Vote: TheCesspit

Because seeing who bites would possibly help. I was happy to be lynched if those remaining townies could use the lynching to help identified the last two scum.

I'll repeat what I keep saying: My play has been bad, I can understand being lynched based on it, but I am not Scum.

Personally, I'm a little more suspicious of Mr Flay tody.

[TheCesspit]

From post 649:

As stated previosuly, I can see exactly why a vote on me is warranted, so I'm kinda of in agreement that either TheCesspit or Neongrey is the right vote today, because the reasons are about the same.

...

Vote: Neongrey

TheCesspit,

In a game with vanilla townies, how can your comment above help find scum?

Unless you were being sarcastic, it makes you seem scummy.

Vote: TheCesspit

Because seeing who bites would possibly help. I was happy to be lynched if those remaining townies could use the lynching to help identified the last two scum.

I'll repeat what I keep saying: My play has been bad, I can understand being lynched based on it, but I am not Scum.

Personally, I'm a little more suspicious of Mr Flay tody.

hmm, my number two suspect wants to vote for my number 1 suspect

Oddly my number two suspect also agrees with my number one suspect.

Vote: Mr Flay

[TheCesspit]

Vote: The CessPit

Glad to see you don't need to explain yourself...

[TheCesspit]

Helllooo....where are all the lurkers?

Lurking?

Anyway... I would greatly appreciate it if people commented on what's going on... or at least posted. I'm certain we're either going to lynch Cesspit or Creampuff today.

Cesspit on grounds of the Hez/tidus/MoS theory and horrid voting record (there are other claims that his posts are suspicious, but I can't think of any examples).

The first reason of those two is a horrible reason to lynch me. The other has much more merit.

Creampuff for lurking, not contributing, and a really bad voting record. Again, there are probably other things that i'm missing. Does anyone else want to comment on either of the wagons?

Not really much to add myself. I don't like Dead Rikimaru's analysis, but I think he's only happy once I'm lynched. Anything I say to him will be WIFOM'd.

I'm out of ideas. I suspect Fritzler and Mr Flay.

[TheCesspit]

1 to hammer.

Actually Cesspit, after the three on my list, Fritz and Mr. Flay stick out as the most likely to have been recruited. *shrug*

Well, there we go then

Sorry to all the town for not being much more help... you win percentage will go down once I'm hammered.

[TheCesspit]

Cess, I've thought your votes for Fritzler were for terrible reasons for much of the last few days. Why do you currently place him in your top two?

For the same "terrible" reasons as I stated after Fritzler post counts, and his reason behind them (to distract and gain advantage for his side). And beyond that if you look at his posting record, most of it is unexplained. Maybe it's Fritzler being Fritzler, but for a lot of other people if they voted with no reason, did post counts and posted random stuff, you'd lynch them.

I dont have the experience necessary to be 100% sure of my convictions.

I do say, as I stated before, that I was better lynch of day 4 than neogrey if neogrey turned out to be town. I migth have said it about RA, but I was happy with that lynch-wagon. Bad me. I'd look at those two days hard, all you experienced ones.

I've been expecting to be the next Townie to go. Just ensure you get some sort of information from my lynch to win the game.

[TheCesspit]

unvote

I'd prefer a creampuffeater lynch to my lynch, as there's a chance he's scum, while I'm 100% sure I'm not. Not that that's believed, but there we go.

I think there maybe something in the fact I wasn't lynched in all that time. Look at whose voted and who hasn't, there maybe something in the pattern.

[TheCesspit]

unvote

I'd prefer a creampuffeater lynch to my lynch, as there's a chance he's scum, while I'm 100% sure I'm not. Not that that's believed, but there we go.

I think there maybe something in the fact I wasn't lynched in all that time. Look at whose voted and who hasn't, there maybe something in the pattern.

So, are your scumbuddies voting for you right now, or not?

I'll let you re-evaluate that comment tomorrow, shall I?

By the way, it wouldn't be -buddies- now would it?

[TheCesspit]

Well, creampufeater is next most likely to be lynched if the Cesspit bandwagon falters, so that seems like enlightened self-interest. I'm more concerned by broomhead's complete silence of late...

Indeed If Creampuffeater is scum, he want's to save himself. If Creampuffeater is Town, he'll want to see someone other than him whose is possibly scum.

Totally WIFOM, but there we go.

[TheCesspit]

Just re-read. I suspect CreamPuffEater is Town the same as me, and is showing the same sort of reactions.

Our last two scum are good, and are pressuring the town in the right direction as needed.

Vote: Fritzler

Because I can.

[TheCesspit]

Just search on my posts, and I give my reasons.

[TheCesspit]

Our last two scum are good, and are pressuring the town in the right direction as needed.

You're 1/2 way right. ONE of the last two scum is good.

It's twilight, should we Mod prod?

(sorry about being absent, college Orientation)

You know the indentity of the last two scum then?

I'm dead. I'm town. Go town!

[TheCesspit]

I'd like to come in with some great insight, but I have none, except I enjoyed this game, and learnt plenty. Cheers all!