Scummies 2011 Nominations

[gandalf5166]

I agree with Reckoner.

[Faraday]

Because. Anyway, it's not like the body of work isn't looked at. Last year we had the players send in their games and stuff so multiple nominations seems really unnecessary, when judges are looking at body of work

anyway

Uhhhh...?

I was nominated for Paragon and Don Corleone last year and not once was I asked to send in games or anything. So either what you just said is total bullshit, or you guys only asked

certain

players to provide their body of work, which means it isn't fair judging.

I mis-remembered it was for the Newbie award we got them to send in samples of their games or at least someone sent us the relevant samples. However this:

And you can look at last year's body of work awards and see that they really only focused on one game. If they're not being presented or judged as such, why bother making it a body of work award?

I read pretty much every game from every nominee from that year, and based it on their body of work, so don't tell me I didn't. I clearly can't speak for everyone but saying it was judged based on one game isn't true, since off the top of my head I don't think the newbie award would have went that way had it.

And yes it's based on the good and the bad, I remember a certain players poorer games affecting their chances of winning at least.

[Faraday]

No, there's no need for two variations on a single person's performance(s). Chances are, someone who is strong enough to be nominated for one game's performance will probably have other games that can earn them a BoW nomination as well.

This is correct though. Both of these aren't needed.

[tanstalas]

I mis-remembered it was for the Newbie award we got them to send in samples of their games or at least someone sent us the relevant samples.

Nobody asked me to send in samples of my games...

So must be the latter

[Faraday]

Just checked; it was SpyreX who provided them actually ^_^ so yes.

[Tarhalindur]

Wasn't Smooth Operator new just last year? But yeah, it seems a bit like a 'well done, you didn't screw anything up noticeably' sort of award... wouldn't miss it, personally.

Tar: *shrug* The modding awards all overlap significantly anyway, because it's harder to tell where one part ends and another begins.

Yeah, I guess it was. Then I'm not sure it was ever very useful. I think a category that would reward mini-normal and open moderators would be nice. It probably won't get a ton of nominations because players of those games are a little stingy with them, but it'd be nice to see moderators rewarded for that.

--
While I'm talking about revamping the scummies, I'd suggest moving

Don Corleone

and

Paragon of Mafia Hunters

to the single-game categories. This tends to be how they're nominated and decided anyway... on the basis of single game performances. It's also allows a player to get nominated for more than one game in the same category. Right now, when a player has a second good game, ostensibly that's sort of entered into the equation of the body of work award, but in reality it gets totally overlooked unless the scummy judges actually played in that game.

Best Performance in a Losing Cause

should already be in the single thread/game category.

Most enjoyable poster

seems like an iffy category. We already have a "funniest" category. And we have performance based awards. I don't know where this fits in.

Disagree. The point of Don Corleone/Paragon awards should be to reward CONSISTENTLY good manipulation/scumhunting (respectively). I *would* be in favor of requiring nominations for these roles to have a minimum number of examples (possibly related to number of games played during the year) and limiting nominations until after eligible games are locked (i.e, nominations during new year only).

But then, I remember the awards that Don Corleone and Paragon of Mafia Hunter were originally contrasted with -

Best Performance: Individual

. (Why did we drop those awards, anyways? Yes, Mafia's a team game, but I think there's a spot for recognizing that sometimes a single player lifts the rest of his team to victory largely on the backs of his own stellar performance.)

Best Performance in a Losing Cause was originally a single-game award*, I could definitely see it going back to that.

* - I distinctly remember how that award came into being because the awards that were supposed to encompass good play by an individual regardless of game outcome (Best Performance: Individual) was in practice awarded only to players who were on the winning team. Sound familiar?

[zoraster]

As I mentioned later, Tar, I came around on that. Although I'm in favor of allowing multiple nominations for the categories and then the judges can simply combine them at the end (easier for the judges to find multiple good instances of play) rather than require a certain number of games.

I think requiring a certain number of games is problematic in practice. The people who care enough about finding and submitting multiple games at a time are the players themselves, and it's generally seen as bad form to nominate yourself. As a result, we'll have "circle-jerking" among a few players dominating the categories.

Better is simply to allow a player who thinks another player did a superb job in their game on a particular side to nominate the player for that game. Then at the end, the judges can simply refer to all the games on their list and take into consideration all of the nominations.

But Losing Cause has no business as a body of work award. It just doesn't make sense. Judges evaluate a player how how good he is at consistently being the best loser possible?

[Faraday]

Losing Cause isn't even decided upon as being a category yet, but yeah it's obviously not a body of work award and wouldn't be if it did happen to be an award.

[VP Baltar]

I think I'd have a good shot at winning losing cause body of work. I support this change.

[Mr. Flay]

But Losing Cause has no business as a body of work award. It just doesn't make sense.

This.

[xRECKONERx]

Wait, Losing Cause is body of work right now? WTF?

[VP Baltar]

I thought we were joking around....

[xRECKONERx]

@Faraday:

I never meant to insinuate that you weren't reading every single game for the body of work awards. But how do you go about tracking down every single game and make sure you actually get every single game?

[Faraday]

@Faraday:

I never meant to insinuate that you weren't reading every single game for the body of work awards. But how do you go about tracking down every single game and make sure you actually get every single game?

Yeah, sorry I was a little touchy there It's easy for those with up to date wiki's, obviously. For those without it's a bit of a bitch. Clicking on someone's profile though and you can get a list of topics they posted in and then you can narrow it down to forums and check what games they were in. This is not ideal, and I'd actually prefer if those nominated for body of work awards could actually post their body of work as presumably they'd remember it reasonably easily. This makes a difficult job (judging) slightly easier, as there's enough to do in reading the games.

Edit: not sure if we should have a seperate thred for discussing scummies/possible new scummies/the judging as is though since this should probably be limited to nominations since it's easy to update.

[Maruchan]

Nominate Robocopter87 for Best Flavor award for his flavoring of the kills in Newbie 1122 here.

Just noticed there weren't very many nominations in that category ,and I rather thought his story-line added to the otherwise-normal game was rather nice.

[Junpei]

Nominate Hikari Link for best newbie for his strong play in Newbie 1119.

Wait is this no longer a category?

[The Fonz]

I'm sure it is, weird if it hasn't shown up. Ed: It's called 'Most Outstanding New Player.'

I'll

second Link

anyway.

[SpyreX]

Right. I think my main issue here is to make sure people who get nominated for BoW are actually being considered for their entire BoW. Let's say someone has one great game and gets nominated for that (let's call him Player 1). Let's also say someone else has a pretty damn good game and gets nominated for that (let's call him Player 2). Player 1's ONE great game was a fluke, and they played like shit the rest of the year. Player 2's ONE game was good, but he played at a consistently good level the entire year, but nobody bothered nominating him for those games since he was already on the list.

By comparison, Player 1's game is going to beat Player 2's game in a vacuum. So what is "Body of Work"? Is it just the good stuff that gets nominated, while ignoring the bad? Or is it truly a "Body of Work" award?

"Entire" can be kind of a misnomer because some players are so prolific some can fall through the cracks. However, I tried really hard to make sure BoW was a very large sample size AND covered all ends of the spectrum. Like Faraday said, it did have huge impact and was a major factor in some of the decisions.

[Hoppster]

Nominate yabbaguy's (O)PTIMIZE for best Mish-Mash game

It's amazing and I'm stunned this hasn't happened yet (if it has and I'm being a derp, make this a 2nd/3rd/4th/nth as appropiate).

Great host (every single post of yabba's has gameshow-host-esque comments/retorts).

Flashy graphics.

It gets a lot of players involved.

IT HAS LOTS OF MONEY AT STAKE!

[SleepyKrew]

I just realized something.
If we're actually enforcing a Body of Work for BoW awards, I can stop complaining about Newbie games getting nominated

[Magua]

Nominate GreyICE for Best Performance Third Party

for his play as the Communist Saboteur in Marketplace Mafia.

- He replaced in D2 to a slot that was at L-1.
- Due to mechanics, he had didn't actually kill anyone until N6.
- Still had to be the last man standing to win.

Despite these limitations, his play got him near-universally treated as confirmed town, a status which he rode all the way to victory.

[Lost Butterfly]

2nd. (Also didn't help that scum were derpy as fuck and he had to get a lot of townies killed/lynched)

[Regfan]

3rd'd

, it really was a stellar performance by Grey.

[Quilford]

nth

a fun read; amazing play too!

[Twistedspoon]

Nominate Hikari Link for best newbie for his strong play in Newbie 1119.

Wait is this no longer a category?

I'm sure it is, weird if it hasn't shown up. Ed: It's called 'Most Outstanding New Player.'

I'll

second Link

anyway.

3rd