Newbie 1136: DarthYoshi's Dystopia of Death (Fin--who won?!)

[DarthYoshi]

Day One, Vote Count the Tenth

theamatuer (3): ConSpiracy, Ghostlin, Stels
Ghostlin (4): hiplop, Morthas, theamatuer, Johhog
ConSpiracy (1): AeRyung
Not Voting (1): DH-Star

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch, and 5 to no-lynch.

The deadline is currently set for 12:00 noon (Pacific Daylight Time), Saturday, August 13.

As ever, any questions or concerns, please let me know.

[ConSpiracy]

Sure thing Mr.I-Pay-Minimal-Attention-When-I-Read.

Touché, must have read over both of them.

Looks very like ''I don't like AeR's post'' kind of posts to me.
What is a Strawman? Wiki says one thing but i don't think my behavior is similar to such.

Strawmanning is a discussion technique. It is attacking something/one that doesn't exist to earn the trust of others. Anyway, it didn't apply here.

You tell me, I'm starting to complain about it. My minimum activity is only associated with my social life and nothinghavetosayness. I ask my questions that further my reads, and I research suspects before placing my vote on them, I don't see what's wrong with my play. If you do, I'm willing to listen.

You post less than others and your reads aren't as obvious as others. On top of that you aren't mentioned much like other people, which at first wasn't a big deal, but in my reread I noticed it more and more. Usually town either posts much or clearly states his reads or both. I can't really say both of them about you.
And nothinghavetosayness? There are hardly any circumstances there is nothing to say for town.

Also: I might have missed this but how is Ghostlin's play in any way an indicator about the validity of his claim. I don't see why should a power role play in a certain way.

Not taking firm stances (the only firm stance he had was on theam and didn't come very strong to me) and fluffing more than usual. Sure both of them are scum tells. Cops usually play this way, though, and I haven't had enough experience with JKs to know if they usually do that. I see a JK as a modified cop and seeing Ghostlin's experience, I bet he does that, as well. It's not strong, but it fits his play.

[theamatuer]

Theam's I am scum post is a scum tell. Scum like to claim scum. Town doesn't care about it.

yeah okay. I "claimed" being an invincible immortal. Surely if I was saying the truth, you'd have no way of countering it at all.
and it was a [joke] because of what Stels said.

[hiplop]

Strawmanning is a discussion technique. It is attacking something/one that doesn't exist to earn the trust of others. Anyway, it didn't apply here.

No, Strawmanning is like discrediting a case. Like making it seem like a smaller deal than it actually is. Ie someone posts a HUGE wall with a bunch of valid points and you just say like "nah you're crazy" (obviously not the best example but I can't think of one atm)

[theamatuer]

Also: why would scum claim scum if townies never do it? if scum claim scum, only scum claim scum, so if you claim scum, you're scum. What you're saying is that scumclaiming is basically a death wish. Scum's goal is to survive, and if they scumclaim, since it is a deathwish, it plays against their goal.

[Stels]

@AeRyung: theamatuer screams at the top of his lungs to me that he's scum. His joke post aside, every action so far has been scummy. Telling him to stop doing and alerting him of his scum behavior, he continues to do it, even though he does have the general hang of playing mafia and has played at least 1 guaranteed game off-site. He's the oblivious one, not me. I truly believe he is scum, hence I am still voting him to this very day. He is on at least half of the player's scum-list as far as I can tell, but it all depends on the Ghostlin lynch for them . Even on the remote 0.0000001% chance that he is town, he is just an eyesore that I would like to get rid of.

Also, the reason why I took out the timezone part of the analysis is because Stels informed that scum can talk to eachother before the game starts, so that logic is out the window. But that's IF they talked before the game started. Anyways, whoever this first lynch may be on , it will give us more information than a no lynch. Other than that, I'm seeing circles.

It doesn't matter if they talked or not. Asking for someone's timezone is a null tell. You can't possibly manipulate it in any way to help you in any way for any alignment. Once Day ends, they have the entire night phase to talk everything over. They wouldn't want to endanger themselves with talking about everything they want to do here.

Show me please where you said first that you thought Ghostlin scummy. I don't recall you saying that.

I never directly stated that, but I did have a bone to pick with Ghostlin in posts #175 and #193

Theam's I am scum post is a scum tell. Scum like to claim scum. Town doesn't care about it.

yeah okay. I "claimed" being an invincible immortal. Surely if I was saying the truth, you'd have no way of countering it at all.
and it was a [joke] because of what Stels said.

Either way, it's no reason to say what you said, even in a joking manner. So far, no one here is joking besides you. You have just been mocking me this entire time instead of looking at other people and further analyzing other people for possible scum/slips/etc. The fact that you're doing nothing right now shows how scummy you are.

Also: why would scum claim scum if townies never do it? if scum claim scum, only scum claim scum, so if you claim scum, you're scum. What you're saying is that scumclaiming is basically a death wish. Scum's goal is to survive, and if they scumclaim, since it is a deathwish, it plays against their goal.

WIFOM.

Ghostlin's claim seems honest to me. His play matches a PR (more of a cop, though) His reasons for calling Hiplop scum are bad.

That's my current conflict at the moment.

[Morthas]

You post less than others and your reads aren't as obvious as others. On top of that you aren't mentioned much like other people, which at first wasn't a big deal, but in my reread I noticed it more and more. Usually town either posts much or clearly states his reads or both. I can't really say both of them about you.
And nothinghavetosayness? There are hardly any circumstances there is nothing to say for town.

My reads are as follows
Theam: Town VI
Ghostlin: Most likely scum
CS: Neutral as it gets
Hiplop: Neutral-Scum, Scum if Ghostlin flips town
Stels: Been neutral but I just got some scumvibes from his last post so Neutral-Scum
Johhog: Neutral-Town
DH: Neutral
AeR: Town

This game has an awfully lot of neutrals for me( which doesn't usually happen ) and I think that a Ghost lynch would give us an amazing amount of information.

[Johhog]

If Ghostlin flips town have something like (from scum to town):

hiplop

Has attacked Ghostlin a lot, and his defence is mostly "Why would I get so much attention as scum?".

theamatuer

I have no clue what this guy is trying to pull off. I had this thought, what if he fakes his strange behaviour to look newbtown?

Stels

I know I'm the only one who thought it, but BKWM was very town. Stels was also town from the start, but his recent post seems... fabricated.

Morthas

Hard to read. Neutral I guess. Could post more content.

DH-Star

Soulblade was scum, DH has been neutral, but if Ghostlin flips town DH is likely town.

AeRyung

Pulls out the newb card a lot and has a couple of scummy posts, but overall town.

ConSpiracy

He is calm, logical and has well reasoned posts. In this game I can't see any obvtown, but ConSpiracy is the nearest thing we'll come to that.

If Ghostlin flips scum:

DH-Star

Soulblade undoubtedly had a connection to Ghostlin, and if Ghostlin flips scum DH is looking scummy. He doesn't seem to wanna vote Ghostlin either.

Stels

See my above read of him.

Morthas

See my above read of him.

Theamatuer

Impossible that we would catch both scum D1. Probably just a VI.

AeRyung

See my above read of him.

ConSpiracy

See my above read of him.

hiplop

If Ghostlin flips scum hiplop is obvtown, I can't imagine a D1 bus here.

[Johhog]

And yeah, I want everyone to make your reads if Ghostlin flips town or scum, as that would change a lot.

[Johhog]

Ouch grammar fail. Oh well.

[Morthas]

I have seen scum who play the same way as CS, so i would suggest you try ISO'ing him.
The way CS plays is the way that smart scum would play which is the same way as a null-town townie.
Not saying you should have him on your scum list but he definitively shouldn't be on the townie list.
Maybe i'll do the Ghost fliptownflipscum thing but right now I'm not bothered since i feel like you hit the most good notes already.

[Johhog]

Hm, might try that.

[theamatuer]

Yeah, there's not much to say right now. Almost everyone reads null right now. This is because either the scum is really good scum, or the rest doesn't actually do enough in convincing others about their Township, since they're too busy attacking others. Not that I'm saying that is bad. Just that is hard to find the actual scum.

Also: why would scum claim scum if townies never do it? if scum claim scum, only scum claim scum, so if you claim scum, you're scum. What you're saying is that scumclaiming is basically a death wish. Scum's goal is to survive, and if they scumclaim, since it is a deathwish, it plays against their goal

.

WIFOM.

So? Are you telling me its wrong? WIFOM, according to the wiki, can be an extremely useful tool towards finding scum. It is because that people screw it up too much that it turns into circle logic. Also, this quote

WIFOM is arguably the most misapplied term in the Mafia lexicon, and for years the standard approach to has been to throw out any ambiguous evidence. This is not optimal, as WIFOM situations are generally not purely random. However, WIFOM arises precisely because someone is difficult to read, and the possibility of being wrong is inherent in making a choice

On the other hand, the scum will read my post, and do the opposite of what I say. Let's just say that He will do what I think, and the rest of us ignore the statement while scum goes to mindf*** himself.
the more we talk about this, the more the scum gets the advantage.

I have no clue what this guy is trying to pull off. I had this thought, what if he fakes his strange behaviour to look newbtown?

I realize that my behaviour is weird/eccentric/heterosexual, even in real life. Now, can we please skim off this topic before it gets awkward?
For the scum/town list, same as Johogs, cept place Johhog under Morthas and remove my name entirely.




This is no longer a newbie game anymore. I can barely even catch up

[Johhog]

Bah, fight and don't give up! Day 1 tends to be the longest day.

[theamatuer]

I'm not saying I'm giving up, but can this even be considered a Newbie game?
We have 2-3 IC eligible, and 5 SE's. That means newbs me and Aeryung and......DH-star?
Everyone's Null right now too. In newb games, shouldn't there be like 2-3 people each on the scum/town read sides with the rest in the middle, usually lurkers?
Gah, this is way too much info. At least day 1 is over this week.

[Johhog]

Um, yeah. You AeRyung and DH-Star. But no, this is a normal newbie game. Usually it tends to be this much SE's after some replacements, and I don't think everyone is null if you look closely. I mean, do you think Ghostlin is as much town as for example AeRyung?

[theamatuer]

I said Almost everyone last post. To be honest, the main reason most people are lynching/allowing to be lynched Ghostlin is to cause real scumpects to appear.

[ConSpiracy]

Strawmanning is a discussion technique. It is attacking something/one that doesn't exist to earn the trust of others. Anyway, it didn't apply here.

No, Strawmanning is like discrediting a case. Like making it seem like a smaller deal than it actually is. Ie someone posts a HUGE wall with a bunch of valid points and you just say like "nah you're crazy" (obviously not the best example but I can't think of one atm)

Were did you get that from? I learned two years ago at school that strawmanning is a discussion technique that if used and unnoticed helps a lot, but if noticed breaks the entire discussion.
Where you are talking about is ad hom(inem). It's another technique that is discrediting a player instead of discrediting the things he said.

Also: why would scum claim scum if townies never do it? if scum claim scum, only scum claim scum, so if you claim scum, you're scum. What you're saying is that scumclaiming is basically a death wish. Scum's goal is to survive, and if they scumclaim, since it is a deathwish, it plays against their goal.

Just for fun/sarcasm/WIFOMish reasons. I don't know, but scum does it a lot more. I am 99% sure that if a research will be done about claiming scum as a joke, scum did it far more than town.

ConSpiracy

He is calm, logical and has well reasoned posts. In this game I can't see any obvtown, but ConSpiracy is the nearest thing we'll come to that.

Wait a minute, didn't you say you agreed with AeRyung a few pages ago?

[Johhog]

Indeed I did. What's your point?

[ConSpiracy]

AeRyung calls me scum...

[theamatuer]

No, she called you scumpartner to Hiplop. IE, youre scum if and only if hiplop is

[Johhog]

AeRyung calls me scum...

Oh, nah, I didn't agree with that part, only with the "possible buddying with hiplop" part. As I said we don't have any real obvtown, and that's tbh the only thing I can find against you, so you're still most town here.

[ConSpiracy]

No, she called you scumpartner to Hiplop. IE, youre scum if and only if hiplop is

AeRyung calls me scum...

Oh, nah, I didn't agree with that part, only with the "possible buddying with hiplop" part. As I said we don't have any real obvtown, and that's tbh the only thing I can find against you, so you're still most town here.

That is still contradicting each other. If Ghost is town, hiplop is most likely scum and I am most likely town. There would be at least some mention of it if he agreed on it.

[Johhog]

But I never said I thought you were scum with hiplop.

[theamatuer]

then..
wait wut do you mean with buddying?