TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win


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Post Post #1900 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:51 am

Post by Castle Bravo »

Rainbowdash wrote:NO.

You know what screw it im breaking character because you people are driving me freaking insane.

What is wrong with you all? Look, this is got to be some of the most counterproductive arguements I have ever seen. I mean you guys, and JUST INCASE you are going to claim dense enough to not realize who you are - DX, Junepi and CB in particular, more are borderline - need to
STOP THIS SHIT


You guys are getting ready to kill eachother and clogging this entire thread with posts when its OBVIOUS to everypony else that NO ONE IS GOING TO LYNCH WHO YOU WANT LYNCHED. There is NO ammount of rewording and asking again that is going to get that done, but you don't get it? Why? I mean, give it up, unless you are SO SO SO sure, to the extent where you are going to post "Silver, Andrew and Izak are all very strong town reads" in your next post, give it up, move your vote, TRY AGAIN LATER.

All this is going to do is clog this already overlogged thread with more shit, and that will just lead to apathy with the game stalling and town getting crushed. Seen it happen before and I will be damned if im going to let it happen here. MOVE ON.

Vote either Silver, Andrew or Izak. If you are voting anyone else, you better be making a good case on to why all three are obviously town, since none of you have a case that holds much water on anyone else.

My vote is on scum. Want me to move it? Lynch him.
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Post Post #1901 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:58 am

Post by ThAdmiral »

You're trying way to hard castle bravo.
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Post Post #1902 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:03 am

Post by Pappums Leather Jacket »

David Xanatos wrote:Your way, we go into D3 with a lot less information. That's a bad thing. Your way, we're relying too much on the Night game. We have deadlines for a reason, and we're nowhere near ours.

The reason for having a deadline is so that people cant do exactly what you are asking for (keep on blathering up a shitstorm and not getting anything done). Once a town has decided on someone to lynch, they need to lynch that person and move on with the knowledge of the flip. Talking nonstop and for pages and pages is bad for town, as it is unfocused and counter-productive.

Since Chevre flaked out, I will

unvote
Vote: Izak
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Post Post #1903 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:06 am

Post by Junpei »

Pappums Leather Jacket wrote:
David Xanatos wrote:Your way, we go into D3 with a lot less information. That's a bad thing. Your way, we're relying too much on the Night game. We have deadlines for a reason, and we're nowhere near ours.

The reason for having a deadline is so that people cant do exactly what you are asking for (keep on blathering up a shitstorm and not getting anything done). Once a town has decided on someone to lynch, they need to lynch that person and move on with the knowledge of the flip. Talking nonstop and for pages and pages is bad for town, as it is unfocused and counter-productive.

Since Chevre flaked out, I will

unvote
Vote: Izak


You are aware that as it stands the two largest wagons are Silver and Andrew correct? Yet you vote for Izak. I thought your post implied we should end the day relatively soon? That vote won't do it.
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Post Post #1904 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:13 am

Post by Pappums Leather Jacket »

OH NOES IM NOT ON THE BIGGEST WAGON WTFFFFF.

I never said "we should end the day relatively soon" I said we should get a lynch done and keep the game moving, which means no clogging it up with extraneous bullshit. Basically a. pick target b. work to get target lynched c. get flip.

We have been getting some town vibes off of silver recently (mainly gut) and as long as andrew recruits at night he probably cant kill, plus MoI can continue to get information from him and other people can be brought into the discussion.
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Post Post #1905 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:16 am

Post by Pappums Leather Jacket »

In addition to what my partner just said, Izak is the third biggest wagon, and our vote puts him one behind Andrew. It's not like we're going off on a one-man wagon here.
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Post Post #1906 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:20 am

Post by jasonT1981 »

Day 2 Vote Count 6


Silver 7- Nero, Hipaddict, mysterio, Shotty, CHKBallin, Junpei, Mera
Andrew 5 - THAdmiral, Banshee, Killer, Izak, Rainbowdash
Izak 4 ZeL1nk, Pinky, Silver, Pappums
Rodion 2 - Castle, Vezo
Pappums 1 - MOI
Mera 1 - Rodion
PeregrineV 1 - DavidX
Oversoul 1 -PeregrineV

Not Voting



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With 25 alive, it takes 13 to lynch
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Post Post #1907 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:22 am

Post by Junpei »

You forgot B.2: Find other keep scum hunting without tunnel vision and B.3: If you find someone you'd rather lynch, go for them, and B.4: Be willing to be persuaded.
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Post Post #1908 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:46 am

Post by Rainbowdash »

Unvote
Vote Izak


Better wagon.
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Post Post #1909 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:31 pm

Post by TheJakalope »

Would anyone help me be useful and sum up the wagons on silver, izak, and andrew?
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Post Post #1910 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:53 pm

Post by jasonT1981 »

Hipaddict will be replaced, a search has begun
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Post Post #1911 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:03 pm

Post by Castle Bravo »

ThAdmiral wrote:You're trying way to hard castle bravo.

I'm trying way too hard to lynch scum, you're not trying at all, together we form one competent townie.
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Post Post #1912 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:13 pm

Post by Junpei »

TheJakalope wrote:Would anyone help me be useful and sum up the wagons on silver, izak, and andrew?


Not really the things I can sum up in a post or two, hmm, I'll dig around a bit later and find some good posts that explain it well for you though, not sure what my schedule is going to be like tonight and the next few days but I'll try to find time for it. The other replacement will be able to look at it too and help you guys catch up easier, I know 75 pages is a lot, thanks for replacing in!
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Post Post #1913 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:25 pm

Post by Rainbowdash »

TheJakalope wrote:Would anyone help me be useful and sum up the wagons on silver, izak, and andrew?


Silver is vanilla town. Ponies are voting him because that wagon is mostly scum. Over/under is 2.5, I lean to an over bet.
Andrew case is two neighborizers targeted MoI and he thinks that Andrew is more likley scum out of those two and assumes we dont have two pro-town ones.
Izak first backed off Zinger saying we could work with him then turned around and attacked him when it looked like that lynch might happen. Also he suddenly wants silver lynched today after he mentioned him zero times yesterday, and is hardcore just sheeping the andrew-nieghbor thing saying that claim is what pushed him over the edge when again, he didn't care about him at all D1.

So silver is town, andrew might be scum, Izak is scum.

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Post Post #1914 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:14 pm

Post by Junpei »

You're an idiot Rainbowdash.

That's more biased then anything I've ever seen.

I'll do way better tomorrow maybe tonight if I have time. That's a terrible recap of the three wagons.
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Post Post #1915 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:30 pm

Post by Rainbowdash »

Junpei wrote:I'll do way better tomorrow maybe tonight if I have time. That's a terrible recap of the three wagons.


You do realize the silver comment was a joke because im convinced he is town right?

The others are actually spot on. You can't tell me that andrew would be getting wagoned today if it wasn't for the MoI claim, and those Izak reasons are why im voting him.

What are your thoughts on why I voted Izak?
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Post Post #1916 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:35 pm

Post by Junpei »

Rainbowdash wrote:
Junpei wrote:I'll do way better tomorrow maybe tonight if I have time. That's a terrible recap of the three wagons.


You do realize the silver comment was a joke because im convinced he is town right?

The others are actually spot on. You can't tell me that andrew would be getting wagoned today if it wasn't for the MoI claim, and those Izak reasons are why im voting him.

What are your thoughts on why I voted Izak?


Didn't know it was a joke, thought you were trying to make the wagon look bad.

ISO me and you'll see many reasons to lynch andrew.

The izak wagon was pretty good, but you made it look better than I think it is by downplaying the other two.
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Post Post #1917 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:52 pm

Post by Rainbowdash »

Well I think the silver wagon is really bad. Im not kidding that I think there are more than two scum on it. Still have never figured out why it even exists

For Andrew, im not going to argue that removed from MoI thing he is obviously town or anything like that. If we were playing a three bullet game, he would be a serious competitor to catch one and probably would. While there are other things, its really just that backing the wagon which makes me uncomfortable.

Izak (or oversoul) is the lynch here.
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Post Post #1918 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:38 pm

Post by Meransiel »

Junpei wrote:You're an idiot Rainbowdash.


I approve of this comment.
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Post Post #1919 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:01 pm

Post by Junpei »

Dear replacements, I will try to do what I promised tomorrow, as it is late and I've been busy, I do have things going on tomorrow, but I will wake up early so I can start my run earlier so that I can post here in decent time before my agenda for the day begins.

Dear Rainbowdash, Andrew is very scummy, you discredit the wagon without stating any specific points you have issues with, similarly you are doing the same thing with the Silver wagon.

P.S. sometimes scum vote scum.
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Post Post #1920 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:29 pm

Post by andrew94 »

i dont understand banshees first part.
the second part: the benefit is that they can talk? ask each other questions
etc. about scumhunting, theres no point having a secret scum read in
the Qt, much rather have it out in the open.

@thadmiral, your first question is suspicious.
it was a trap question. you know fully well that usually i would just say yes or no
notice how i rarely answered yes or no in my answers? yea.

@david, you still dont understand what im saying. i cbf explaining further

@rodion the qt integrety thingee was so newcomers dont mouth off. (i said that?)
i wanted to catch scum instead of having a town read that may or may not be town. so screw intergrety afterall


ThAdmiral wrote:@ andrew:

1. Why did you recruit someone you had a scumread on, even one not set in stone, if you wanted to keep the integrity of the neighborhood?
You say you were worried, night 1 for example, that the person you recruited might have been scum, and that they could have exploited the knowledge of you and moi as neighbors and that is why you considered not recruiting. Therefore why wouldn't you want to recruit someone you were almost certain was town?

2. When did you start considering MoI as potential scum?

3. Why did you recruit MoI in the first place? (apologies if you've already answered that)

1)part of this is answered when i answered rodion. go read it.
and i was scared they would have exploited the 2neighbour deadlock, not just me and moi being neighbours, as moi revealed the other neighbour to me in the Qt thread.
2) i think after day 2 when he started doing the things he said made me look like scum. and after he called me scum
3) i didnt answer and i wont.
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Post Post #1921 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:32 am

Post by ThAdmiral »

andrew94 wrote:i dont understand banshees first part.
the second part: the benefit is that they can talk? ask each other questions
etc. about scumhunting, theres no point having a secret scum read in
the Qt, much rather have it out in the open.

This makes it sound like you don't think there's much point to having a neighborhood at all, since things are better out in the open. Is that true?

andrew94 wrote:@thadmiral, your first question is suspicious.
it was a trap question. you know fully well that usually i would just say yes or no
notice how i rarely answered yes or no in my answers? yea.

What? My first question was "1. So was the initial question only directed at that one person?" and it was for clarification.
And you said: "some of your questions are suspicious".
Question
s
. Plural. So once again: which questions are suspicious, and why? Otherwise I'm going to have to assume you are backed in to a corner and are trying to bullshit your way out.

andrew94 wrote:@rodion the qt integrety thingee was so newcomers dont mouth off. (i said that?)
i wanted to catch scum instead of having a town read that may or may not be town. so screw intergrety afterall

So wait, are you now saying you don't care about the integrity of your neighborhood?

andrew94 wrote:2) i think after day 2 when he started doing the things he said made me look like scum. and after he called me scum

Put yourself in his shoes. Do you honestly think he's been behaving unreasonably/scummily? Would you believe there were two town neighborizers? You even admitted yourself that you felt that MoI believed you were the less town (post 1578), so obviously you have some insight to what he might have been thinking.
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Post Post #1922 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:53 am

Post by Meransiel »

Junpei wrote:Dear Rainbowdash, Andrew is very scummy, you discredit the wagon without stating any specific points you have issues with, similarly you are doing the same thing with the Silver wagon.


I discredit the wagon WITH specific points I have issues with. So can we not lynch him pls pls?
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Post Post #1923 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:33 am

Post by Banshee »

PBPA of Izak:

Attacks Jilynne for meta reasons he can't mention, that were obviously wrong since that slot flipped town. Votes Vifam but notes he's still "a few votes off lynching" as if this serves to excuse it. Maybe just poor wording.

Responds to ZeL1nK about his Jilynne suspicion. Null.

Asks Vifam "are you trying to get yourself lynched or something?" which is odd because Izak's vote is on Vifam still. Then brings up what I believe is the first mention of a jester in the game. The latter is pretty meaningless, but the first part is odd because it shows dissonance in motivation, i.e. "I'm going to vote for you to be lynched, but why are you trying to get yourself lynched?" Confused motives. Big scumpoints here.

Questions vollkan on his patented point system. Null, some people like that, some don't.

Post 323: "But scum claim PRs just as often as town, if not more, right? Does it really mean anything?' This looks like setting up a reason to lynch a claimed power role. Junpei had just entered the game (replacing Vifam) and had claimed Town Tracker, so maybe he's still tunnelling. Or distancing; Junpei was still in pretty serious danger although no longer at L-2.

Ouch, Post 368: Attacks Meransiel for lurking, which... if you look, Meransiel has more posts than most people. I don't agree with Meransiel's announcement that he won't play the first day, but I really don't see a reason scum would announce that and make themselves a target. My suspicions of Meran derived from later, when he was (imo) asking some unnecessary questions and fishing the vig; slight townread now on Meran.

Izak votes Meran though, moving the vote off Vifam (Junpei). But the real problem is here: "Junpei, you're being almost as stupid. Do you really think we have a jester here? Come on, jason's been here two years, you think he doesn't know how how much some people HATE jesters?"

Then why were you the first to suggest that there might be one? Why would it even occur to you, if it's so ludicrous?

In Post 485, unvotes Meransiel, demands information from Zinger ("you just softclaimed lyncher") and puts an FoS on Junpei with no vote.

Engages in some meaningless back and forth and then says "I don't think I buy Zinger's roleclaim. He could well be scum, or a dangerous third party. Even I'd he tells the truth, the fact that the town is the majority will mean he hits town more often than scum. I'm more than happy to lynch him on this, but if Meran won't hammer (why?), who will?" All this with no vote. Then fishes to see if Meransiel is a dayvig. Really?

Ah, never mind about the no vote, he does vote Zinger less than ten total posts later so that's a null.

Takes offense to Zinger's nasty comments. Null again.

Oh, hey, Pinky saw the same thing on the jester thing. Izak says he was quite obviously joking, but it really didn't read like that for me. In this long post (728) he also says it's not that he can't provide reads, he just hasn't put them into a list. (Why not?) And when pressed on his previous suspicion of Chevre, says this: "There was some focus on Chevre at that point. I was just making my stance known; how can that EVER be scummy?" Well, it's scummy if you're distancing, obviously.

Three of the last four posts from Izak are just classics of failure to commit.

Given the state of things righ now, I'd be fine with a Silver lynch, though I want to look into it a bit more before I place my vote.

@MoI well, now that you've outed him, I can totally see what you mean. I am still leaning towards silver more, but is there anything in particular that makes Andrew very scummy?

Thinking on it, I get some scummish vibes off of Rodion, but I'm not confident of this read.


I haven't played with Izak before and I'm sure that there will be a chorus of "Oh, he always plays like this!" However, I want to note that if someone always plays in a certain way then it's a nulltell, not a town tell and it doesn't confirm them as town. Therefore taking them off your suspicion list is a mistake in my opinion.

I still prefer Andrew as a lynch but I'm willing to vote Izak.

@Meran:
I think it was you who was appealing to the vig to shoot Izak, yet you've expressed that you don't want him lynched (working on memory here, please correct me if I'm wrong). What's the difference between lynching and vigging Izak in your view? Why that distinction?
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Post Post #1924 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:44 am

Post by Junpei »

Banshee wrote:

Post 323: "But scum claim PRs just as often as town, if not more, right? Does it really mean anything?' This looks like setting up a reason to lynch a claimed power role. Junpei had just entered the game (replacing Vifam) and had claimed Town Tracker, so maybe he's still tunnelling. Or distancing; Junpei was still in pretty serious danger although no longer at L-2.
Once I claimed tracker I wasn't in any danger anymore of being lynched.


Ouch, Post 368: Attacks Meransiel for lurking, which... if you look, Meransiel has more posts than most people.
At the time, Meransiel had been lurking A TON. ISO me you see me debating with Meransiel about it.



Oh, hey, Pinky saw the same thing on the jester thing. Izak says he was quite obviously joking, but it really didn't read like that for me. In this long post (728) he also says it's not that he can't provide reads, he just hasn't put them into a list. (Why not?) And when pressed on his previous suspicion of Chevre, says this: "There was some focus on Chevre at that point. I was just making my stance known; how can that EVER be scummy?" Well, it's scummy if you're distancing, obviously.
"Oh, hey" makes it sound like you are just noticing this. Are you seriously claiming that you didn't realize that Izak had pulled his jester stunt until you read Pinkys' post on the PBPA of Izak?




Other points were good I think, only cut them out to shorten my posts' length. Still don't think the case is as strong as Andrews' though.

In a small bit I'll go find quotes for the full case on andrew, since you did Izak I feel even more obligated to fulfill my promise.
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