Mini 1211: Murder in Sicily [Over]

[Whiskers]

Hey we could turn it into a kingmaker game?

[iamausername]

Yes, I'm pretty sure that anyone on the wagon who isn't happy to see MusicNinja lynched at this point has had ample opportunity to remove their vote.

If everyone is really hell bent on lynching this guy, I can just hammer and we can move on to tomorrow and save our Mod a replacement, since it seems like most people think that slot is scum past redemption.

Do YOU think the slot is scum past redemption?

[Maruchan]

(thats what votes are for right? I could be wrong... Maybe we're electing a Mayor of Townies or something. O.o)

That seems so much less violent, let's do it. I vote for myself.

I second this motion and this vote

[Maruchan]

i un-second that vote and instead change my vote to Panacae. She now has two votes for Mayor of Townies.

How many votes does it take to get elected?

[Whiskers]

Majority +1?

[Maruchan]

we;; She's a third of the way there then! (I think)

[Substrike22]

Yes, I'm pretty sure that anyone on the wagon who isn't happy to see MusicNinja lynched at this point has had ample opportunity to remove their vote.

If everyone is really hell bent on lynching this guy, I can just hammer and we can move on to tomorrow and save our Mod a replacement, since it seems like most people think that slot is scum past redemption.

Do YOU think the slot is scum past redemption?

It's scummy but not past redemption. I want to see a replacement. Hence why I have not yet hammered and don't plan to unless deadline gets upon us.

[Maruchan]

So lets say we spend another 2-3 days getting a replacement, then we have like a week till deadline, you think in 1 week someone can go from being scummy to turning around and being townie enough to not get lynched? Unless you have a set of "Substrike's Five Miracle Questions To Cure Scummieness" I don't see this happening.

[Maruchan]

He hellhound nice to know I now have an audience! -slowly building a fanbase I hope-

[Whiskers]

So lets say we spend another 2-3 days getting a replacement, then we have like a week till deadline, you think in 1 week someone can go from being scummy to turning around and being townie enough to not get lynched? Unless you have a set of "Substrike's Five Miracle Questions To Cure Scummieness" I don't see this happening.

It's happened before. It's totally possible to go from everypony on one wagon and thinking one player is scum to lynching a formerly radar-bottomed coasting player. One week is a lot of time, that's why every day is THREE weeks long, so that confused newbies can let their ideas and stuff stew.

Interesting that you want to push a lynch. I'd like to have the day over too, but activity has suddenly picked up. If it can KEEP up until a replacement, then I am so down for it.

You make a lot of jokes and stuff, have you done any scumhunting? Though I don't think Iever defended you, I know you did defend me. I'm not sure of your alignment.

Vote: Maruchan

.
Now convince me to change it back.

[Maruchan]

So lets say we spend another 2-3 days getting a replacement, then we have like a week till deadline, you think in 1 week someone can go from being scummy to turning around and being townie enough to not get lynched? Unless you have a set of "Substrike's Five Miracle Questions To Cure Scummieness" I don't see this happening.

It's happened before. It's totally possible to go from everypony on one wagon and thinking one player is scum to lynching a formerly radar-bottomed coasting player. One week is a lot of time, that's why every day is THREE weeks long, so that confused newbies can let their ideas and stuff stew.

Interesting that you want to push a lynch. I'd like to have the day over too, but activity has suddenly picked up. If it can KEEP up until a replacement, then I am so down for it.

You make a lot of jokes and stuff, have you done any scumhunting? Though I don't think Iever defended you, I know you did defend me. I'm not sure of your alignment.

Vote: Maruchan

.
Now convince me to change it back.

I feel like I have repeated this a lot lately. -.- When someone I see is town is accused of scum, and the accusation isn't REFERENCED to their proof of scum (quoted), then yes I will "defend them" in asking the accuser to prove their accusations rather than just sheepish the accusations. Its like the point I made with substrike. I can say he claimed scum and he told us his partners name all I want, but none of you should BELIEVE me unless I provide proof that he has done so. You should ALL go to his defense and say "Where does he say that?".

Its not that I am trying to rush a lynch, I truly think musicninja is scummy. I think scummy people deserve to be lynched. IE: I think we should lynch this spot. So yes I will be advocating a lynch for him. Thats what I do when I see someone scummy. I advocate to get them lynched. THe reason I don't want to wait for a replacement? I HONESTLY BELIEVE that that slot is scummy, therefore I don't see a possible way for that slot to remove its scummieness. Anyone who thinks a replacement can fix the scummieness, must not believe the slot is scum, in which case why would you want them lynched? And if the spot IS scummy then a replacement coming in for a week won't change that, and it would suck for the replacement to repalce into a game, re-read 485 posts, then immediately get lynched out due to his predecessor's play.

[Noramp]

whiskers the original quote comes off as defending Maruchan that's why I quoted it when you originally asked me when you defended Maruchan...(can you see why I might not be too happy with you? We're going in circles)

You said something to the extent of...and not much to say about substrike but he was the only other person voting Maruchan. (This is not a direct quote but it does give the gist of what you said.)

[Whiskers]

"whiskers the original quote *snip*" What quote? It's been like, a year. I'll go back and look.
My rule of thumb is: "If you want your question fucking answered, accommodate the player to do the answering." In otherwords, help me hlep you, y giving me the quote.

[Whiskers]

Whiskers why did you defend Maruchan so hard? Why do you think he is town to the extent of going into a frenzy to defend him?

This is the first time you ask about me defending Maruchan.
Then I mention Maruchan in what has since been construed as a "Chainsaw defense"

I don't know what to do about substrike, but hes the other player to vote for Maruchan.

Here it seems that Substrike finds himself on the side of scummy simply because he voted for Maruchan?

This is me pointing out a group of three.

My bad you're right Whiskers Substrike did bring it up unfortunately you didn't really say much about it when he did. Can you just clarify what you meant in that quote if that wasn't the reason you felt he was scummy and I suppose more to the point...

That's not why I find him scummy, but it something I chose to point out

Why did you feel the need to point it out?

I explained this: Omgus was my only other attack against Substrike (at the time) and Omgus is frowned upon, here.

Substrike himself answered this question in the immediately preceeding post.

So you were attempting a chainsaw defense?

I answer this saying "Yes," but not really knowing what a chainsaw defense is. I answer YOUR question on the same thing, I actually ask you about what A chainsaw defense is, because it isn't what I thought it was, as it turns out.

ok whiskers you are starting to make me rage. You tell me to read the thread which i had done and now ive redone. So I will start over.

I originally asked you why you defended Maruchan. You asked for a specific point I brought up a point. You said it had been discussed already. I really beg to differ. You just accepted whatever Substrike said without acknowledging what he was talking about and in the end admitted that you defended Maruchan through a scum tactic, known as a chainsaw defense (attacking the attacker of your scum partner, if anyone has a better definition feel free to give it). So now I'll ask you again why did you defend Maruchan and what makes you so sure that Maruchan is town to the extent that Substrike is scummy for voting him?

So We start over, me asking you to tell me WHERE did I defend Maruchan? I'm not confident he's scum, and Substrike is scummy fort voting for him ONLY because it's the best evidence that I had (at the time) other than barfing Omgus all over the thread.

The first quote of yours. You ask me why I defended Maruchan. Quote a post BEFORE that where I Did defend Maruchan.

[Noramp]

I'm confused are you asking for an additional quote? I potentially see an alternative way to read the original quote in question but you've yet to explain it that way either I think. I may have just been confused. Why did you bring up Substrike in the first place if all you had on him was omgus and didn't you think it would draw just as much attention to bring him up on the grounds that he voted for Maruchan?

Whiskers from my point of view you've done nothing but try and get around actually answering my questions. None of your answers come off as being just straight answers. I've tried to help you help me and that hasn't worked to this point.

[Noramp]

just a side note did our game number change from 1208 to 1211?

[Maruchan]

uhm yeah... I have it in my wiki as 08 also... O.o

[bobsnox]

I know who I'm investigating tonight if I live/don't get roleblocked, etc.

In my experience, it is NEVER a good idea to tell the town who you are using your night action on, the night before you use it. I'm not sure if MafiaScum has a mafia role equivalent of a Framer (makes an innocent party look guilty), but if it does, and there just so happens to be a Framer i nthis game? Well now Whiskers is gettin framed tonight.

Well aware, which is why I didn't use any names.

I don't understand your Whiskers statement though...

Panacea - you asked if I thought I might be quickhammered. I figured there was a good chance.

[Maruchan]

I know who I'm investigating tonight if I live/don't get roleblocked, etc.

In my experience, it is NEVER a good idea to tell the town who you are using your night action on, the night before you use it. I'm not sure if MafiaScum has a mafia role equivalent of a Framer (makes an innocent party look guilty), but if it does, and there just so happens to be a Framer i nthis game? Well now Whiskers is gettin framed tonight.

Well aware, which is why I didn't use any names.

I don't understand your Whiskers statement though...

Panacea - you asked if I thought I might be quickhammered. I figured there was a good chance.

im kind of busy to go back and check but if I remember correctly you said that right after someone else had made some comment that made it look like they were the butt of your investigation. TO me at the time I remember thinking it seamed obvious who you were going to inv.

[Whiskers]

I'm confused are you asking for an additional quote? I potentially see an alternative way to read the original quote in question but you've yet to explain it that way either I think. I may have just been confused. Why did you bring up Substrike in the first place if all you had on him was omgus and didn't you think it would draw just as much attention to bring him up on the grounds that he voted for Maruchan?

Whiskers from my point of view you've done nothing but try and get around actually answering my questions. None of your answers come off as being just straight answers. I've tried to help you help me and that hasn't worked to this point.

I don't even know what the "Original quote in question" IS.
I don't know what I'm suposed to be explaining to you.
I brought up substrike because I don''t like him and I want him payed some attention to.
I wanted to point out that these three had a common bond, and it is speculated that we have three scum.

Noramp: What is the "Original Quote" that you keep referring to?

[Noramp]

You quoted it yourself in your last post...

I don't know what to do about substrike, but hes the other player to vote for Maruchan.

The fact that you didn't know this was the quote I was referencing is sort of unfathomable since I paraphrased it in the post before your long post which quoted it and my paraphrase was way close enough to connect the dots seeing as I quoted you maybe two times during our exchange you had a 50/50 chance of choosing the right quote.

Is the common bond that they voted Maruchan?

[Substrike22]

...I brought up substrike because I don''t like him ...

Yeah that seems to be the bulk of your case against me. You don't like me. And as much as that hurts, that's not really scum hunting.

[iamausername]

OK, so clearly we're not going to lynch MusicNinja without waiting for a replacement and blah blah, so I guess there's productive stuff I could be doing. I mean, there's more than one scum to catch, after all. Time to iso everybody!

bobsnox

Completely agree with whoever it was (Scumhunter, I think) that says the timing of his claim makes it very likely true, because scum would have held out a little longer. There's not really a lot of point in going more in depth than that here.

Bub Bidderskins

Obvscum, should be lynched right away. Posts are nothing but a bunch of IIoA. Also seems to believe that Friend is a doublevoter, which is interesting.

Friend

He bothered me a bit early on, when he was mostly posting questions that looked good but didn't seem to actually lead anywhere useful, but I'm going to call him town on the basis of Post #418, which is just crazy awesome. The only thing that I strongly disagree with there is Panacea being second on his list of lynch preferences, I think. She's a lot more middling in my estimation.

LTP Mafia

Oh man, we're still waiting for someone to replace this guy, aren't we? I wouldn't hold out a lot of hope for seeing a MusicNinja replacement any time soon.

His singular game post, followed by flaking, is most likely indicative of someone used to playing on a lol random lynch site and being shocked to discover that people here actually put

thought

into the game. Pretty hard to divine any clue about his alignment from that.

Maruchan

From Post #274: "I didn't want the day to en without anyone having ANY interaction from me." This is a bit of an odd reason to be concerned about the day ending too soon. Maru, why were you specifically concerned about people not interacting with

you

enough, rather than not posting enough in general?

Wouldn't expect to see Post #279 from scum though, unless bob was his partner. Which I doubt, for above reasons. Townbob means scum know he is speaking the truth, so they'd know no counterclaims would be forthcoming.

From Post #379: "I honestly could care less what you think of me because I think your scum and therefore your opinion of me is completely fabricated to assist you in winning the game."
From Post #422: "I agree with your comment that me and substrike is more likely town on town than him being scum."

What changed your mind, Maru?

monk

scumspects

This is a fucking stupid term, it serves no purpose that isn't already served by the word 'suspects', don't ever use this. Thanks.

Now, as for my read on monk, like Friend, he started out looking dodgy to me. Unlike Friend, he hasn't stopped.

In Post #201, he asked me a question that I have clearly failed to answer in any way shape or form, and there has been no follow up on this from monk. Suggests that he had no actual interest in the answer to this question, and was simply trying to make himself look useful.

From Post #340: "If he is town, its quite easy to figure out where to go, it'd be someone on his wagon" sounds an awful lot like scum defending lynchbait town to me.

In Post #348 he lists Scumhunter as one of his top suspects, then when asked for reasons he immediately retracts this read in Post #356, which is rather ironic considering his reason for voting Friend.

His voting follows a general pattern of not paying the slightest attention to the bigger picture; he doesn't seem to be aware of the game state beyond the most recent pages. He'll vote one person based on a single post, then drop that entirely to vote someone else based on a single post, and so on. He's making it up as he goes along; this is not town behaviour.

I think I may have persuaded myself into changing my vote.

MusicNinja

Well, you already know where I stand with this one. He used the word 'yet', he's scum.

Noramp

His sequence of posts from #86 to #155 feels town to me; clearly I agree with his stance on monk, which is a good start, but not necessarily proof of townness. But the fact that he picks out Scumhunter's town read on monk, which was one of a number of reads Scumhunter gave without explanation, and asks for reasoning, that doesn't seem like scum behaviour to me. I'd expect scum to demand reasons for

all

of Scumhunter's reads, whereas it makes a lot more sense that for a town player, the one that they disagree with would stand out.

Post #327: I guess it was Noramp that said this, not Scumhunter. My bad.

Overall, no real issues here. Probably town.

---

I'll get to the rest probably tomorrow.

Gonna do this right now though:

UNVOTE: MusicNinja
VOTE: monk

[Bub Bidderskins]

Bub Bidderskins

Obvscum, should be lynched right away. Posts are nothing but a bunch of IIoA. Also seems to believe that Friend is a doublevoter, which is interesting.

Oops, that was my bad. What threw me off was that Friend did not

unvote.

In the future, please unvote so I can avoid such mistakes. That goes for everybody.

Also, I'd like to remind everyone of this:

1) Votes must be bolded, on a separate line, and in the form of

“vote: player”.

From now on, if your vote is not on a seperate line, I will not count it.

In other news, I'm replacing

MusicNinja

, so wish me well on yet another ride on the replacement merry-go-round. Yech.

[Maruchan]

Maruchan

From Post #274: "I didn't want the day to en without anyone having ANY interaction from me." This is a bit of an odd reason to be concerned about the day ending too soon. Maru, why were you specifically concerned about people not interacting with

you

enough, rather than not posting enough in general?

Wouldn't expect to see Post #279 from scum though, unless bob was his partner. Which I doubt, for above reasons. Townbob means scum know he is speaking the truth, so they'd know no counterclaims would be forthcoming.

From Post #379: "I honestly could care less what you think of me because I think your scum and therefore your opinion of me is completely fabricated to assist you in winning the game."
From Post #422: "I agree with your comment that me and substrike is more likely town on town than him being scum."

What changed your mind, Maru?

Sleep and realizing that we were both kind of hot headed during that whole thing.
@your first question, posting/interacting with me thats what I meant. I wanted you guys to have an opinion of me before the day ended, I didn't want the day to end with 1.5 posts from me and a miss-lynch.