Mafia 48: Himalayan Mafia - Game over!

[Dead Rikimaru]

I didn't think DG's first post was scummy; the "who could have been recruited" thing is a perfactly valid line of day 1 speculation, and while him picking HezLucky seems a bit wierd, I suppose that's all a matter of opinion.

I'm quoting you for two reasons:

1- To agree that guessing "who would have been recruited" is indeed valid.
2- To point out that DrippingGoofball is actually a girl.

[Dead Rikimaru]

It makes no sense. He's been lurking, and then votes for me as a lurker,

where I've made several contributions, even they haven't been of the high level that others have had. I made my reasons clear in the post, and in previous posts I had been talking about other topics.

I'm interested in other's opinions on TSAGod.

I'm sorry my statement disturbs you. It's quite simple. I have had stick for being non-comittal and anti town. I had asked JamesSparrow about one of his votes, not undertsanding how it could be construed to be pro-town. It looked summy to me.

Instead I got a good answer on how exerting pressure via voting can help uncover scum. Follow the thread, it's there. I hadn't thought of it in this direction before. It makes sense. Once LoudMouthLee (*) started a 'pressure bandwagon' on MasterofSin, I thought it might help to show some commitment to the cause, and vote for a lurker.

TSAGod didn't vote you for the same reason you voted MoS
He voted you because you said you needed to show pro-town behavior.
He just said he was voting you to show pro-town behavior too to mock you.
It has been later explained by TSAGod himself, Fuldu and Twomz and your insistence in not understand (points to bold part of the quote) is even more suspicious than your initial post. Looks like your are trying to discard his theory by explaining why the joke is wrong. Not the real vote.

vote: TheCesspit

[Dead Rikimaru]

I personally find no reason to vote for theCesspit at this time.

My reason to vote him has nothing to do with his remark on trying to look pro-town.
I'm voting him because TSAGod voted him presenting an argument and making a joke.
theCesspit has been constantly ignoring the argument and defending from the joke.
Also, note how he tries to discredit me saying:

So a second person whose been pretty quiet comes out and votes for me.

I feel well and truly mocked now.

As if my the arguments of people who do not post a lot were less worthy, as if they were reading less too.

[Dead Rikimaru]

Let me explain carefully so you understand:

Okay, the arguement is that a lurker-vote does not make you pro-town?

No.
The problem is not what you did. (in this case, voting)
The problem is the reason you gave: "Im going to do this to look pro-town".

You said:

and because I need to give some sort of show of Pro-town behaviour:

That's the reason of TSAGod's vote on you.(but not the reason of my vote)

You said you wanted to look pro-town.

That part is what made him vote you. Not who you voted and if he was a lurker or not.

So, why am I voting you?
I'm voting you because everytime you defended you omitted the real reason he voted you.

What were you defending from?
He said:

I will now make up for my lack of posts so far with some sort of sho of Pro-town behaviour:

It was obviously not

the reason

of his vote. It was a humorous comment added to his post.

Later commenting his post you said:

So your voting for me for the same reason as I'm voting for MasterOfSin?

Odd.

It makes no sense. He's been lurking, and then votes for me as a lurker,

Okay, the arguement is that a lurker-vote does not make you pro-town?

You see?
Although he mentioned that your vote was only a lurker vote, the scummy statement he found was:

and because I need to give some sort of show of Pro-town behaviour:

And for never assuming this ws the reason of the vote (while everyone else seemed to understand what he was meaning) that's why I voted you.
Did you really fail to understand what he meant?
Did you understand and are pretending you didn't so you can avoid explaining?
That's what I wanted to know by voting you.
Because pretending to be ignorant of what he meant in order to avoid giving an explanation is even much more scummy than saying "I'm doing this because I need to look pro-town"

Understood now the reason of his vote?
Understood now the reason of my vote?

Other point:

That wasn't my comment. I just feel it's odd that two people who've contributed very little have voted for me

No.
First of all postcount is different from contribution.
You can make 100 posts of nonsense and random accusations and switching from bandwagon to bandwagon and you will not be contributing to town.
You can also do all of that without reading, just see who has more votes and vote him too. Which is what many people do, and since those people have a bigger number of posts you probably consider they post more "content".
One can say there is more content in my few posts than all of yours together, Mr. "I'm voting him to look pro-town".
How is this posting content?

with little else to add apart from commentary on my actions. No-one elses.

I'm paying attention to everything that is going on.
I'm not going to vote someone just because he is being accused by many, I'm paying attention to all opinions posted, but I am also aware that some of them may be from scum trying to lynch innocents, so I'm very careful whith what I say and who I accuse.
I don't need to have a certain number of posts to vote you. Or to question your doings. And is very suspicious that instead of adressing them directly you keep questioning who can or can't question you.
The number of arguments from a person does not influence the validity of each argument, and it's a really suspicious that your defense is based on quantity.

Reading lots and commenting little looks the same as reading little and commenting little.

No.
Reading lots mean you know lots
Reading little means you know little.
Reading little and commenting lots means you post nonsense
Reading lots and posting lots means either that you have lots to say or that you speak lots of useless things "to look protown"
Reading lots and posting little means you have less time than you would like to but is aware of whats going on and that everytime you post it will actually be content.

[Dead Rikimaru]

I must say that I still think TheCessPit has a higher chance of being scum than Mastermind of Sin.

Not only by what Hezlucky has said about post 100 but also because the relation beween Tidus and CP was much more friendly. (Unless MoS saw Tidus as dead weight and decided to invest heavily against him to look pro-town)

In a strange coincidence, by the time CP "misunderstood" the meaning of TSAGod words the only person who understood the same way as CP (while Fuldu was trying to explain the right meaning) was Tidus

vote: TheCesspit

[Dead Rikimaru]

I just assume that everyone is joking, because almost everything i say is a joke (except that) (and that).

Really?
That's very interesting considering it has been said before in this thread that joke posts generally come from scum.

[Dead Rikimaru]

nothing to fear,

Pooky is here!

Lee and Goofball are scumbagos

not sure who their third man is.

vote Lee

Explanation/Huggle Alliance info to follow.

It's strange the way Pooky points both Lee and DGB as scum while promissing further explanations that he never gives (only congratulate Lloyd's) and in a matter of few posts he votes and unvotes both and his vote ends in a third person (Neongray) for "fluffy posting" while conveniently pointing out that he wouldn't mind DGB lynched.

FOS:Pooky

[Dead Rikimaru]

unvote

Well, Pooky's lack of response has just turned my Fos into

vote: Pooky

[Dead Rikimaru]

Can any1 tell me what the bandwagon on me is for again?

I'm the author of the second among those votes.
Now that you seem to be interested let me present you

again

the reason of my vote:

On April 12, you said:

nothing to fear,

Pooky is here! Very Happy

Lee and Goofball are scumbagos

not sure who their third man is.

vote Lee

Explanation/Huggle Alliance info to follow.

On April 14, I did the following comment:

It's strange the way Pooky points both Lee and DGB as scum while promissing further explanations that he never gives (only congratulate Lloyd's) and in a matter of few posts he votes and unvotes both and his vote ends in a third person (Neongray) for "fluffy posting" while conveniently pointing out that he wouldn't mind DGB lynched.
FOS:Pooky

Until April 19 your only response was some joke about Lloyd being Captain Obvious, so I posted:

unvote

Well, Pooky's lack of response has just turned my Fos into

vote: Pooky

After that you:
- Explained the Huggle Alliance (read my April 14 post again, that's not what I'm concened with)
- Questioned Kirby's reason to vote in you
- Accepted Flay's vote on you
- Attacked Kirby again
- Asked the reason of the bandwagon on you

Well, when you say "Explanation/Huggle Alliance Info to follow" I assume you mean "Explanation on your reasons for considering DGB and LML scum"

AND

"Info on the Huggle Alliance"
You just provided the second.

Now that the deadline is approaching and you have 5 votes on you who knows you will stop ignoring my questions?

[Dead Rikimaru]

Amazing Goofball, the reason I didn't want to begin a wagon on you and get you all up in votes is because I knew you were going to be on vacation, I didn't want you to come back close to deadline with a ton of votes on you and have not enough time to properly defend yourself. That's why I laid off on you and didn't come after you, I didn't explain my reasoning because I didn't want to have you run up while you were away!

Yes, and now that she is back and answered all of your comments, and you replyed to all of her answers you are still not voting for her.

Also, three days from the deadline and being the most voted person instead of voting the person you suspect you are advocating a lurker hunt to make lurkers participate.

Aren't you just trying to distance yourself from her?

[Dead Rikimaru]

Broomhead was indeed the hammer.
Anyway even if RA

was

inocent we will be able to learn a lot observing what hapenned here this day.
Specially in the case of TheCesspit.

[Dead Rikimaru]

vote: The Cesspit

Fritzler pushing too hard on DGB's lynch was a good

excuse to move your vote out of her

when she was close to be lynched, but now that we

know

DGB was scum vote the person trying too hard to lynch scum sounds very scummy.

[Dead Rikimaru]

I'm less sold on TheCessPit only because he voted for Dripping at a pretty crucial point.

It's not true.
Actually he

unvoted

at a crucial point. He just cast his vote on DGB and them unvoted close to the end.
Yosarian on the other hand only could be scum together with DGB if LML is scum too, because all he needed to save DGB was unvote, that way LML would have been lynched instead.

[Dead Rikimaru]

Actually, I voted AND unvoted at crucial points.

I've already explained my reaons for the unvote.

If you are town you had a reason.

If you are scum you had an excuse.

Fritzler's trying so hard to lynch DGB (he even asked Pooky to vote her, wonder if Pooky would have voted if he didn't) was a great reason (or excuse) to change votes.

Since DGB was Mafia and Fritzler going after Fritzler after that make your unvote of Day 2 look much more like an excuse than a reason.

The point of accusing Fritzler of trying to decieve the town by a "fake vote count" fades when the fact that DGB was scum is taken into consideration.
I would let the mod take care of other players behavior if he considers it abusive. Players should be trying to find scum.

[Dead Rikimaru]

Actually, I voted AND unvoted at crucial points.

I've already explained my reaons for the unvote.

If you are town you had a reason.

If you are scum you had an excuse.

Fritzler's trying so hard to lynch DGB (he even asked Pooky to vote her, wonder if Pooky would have voted if he didn't) was a great reason (or excuse) to change votes.

Since DGB was Mafia and Fritzler going after Fritzler after that make your unvote of Day 2 look much more like an excuse than a reason.

The point of accusing Fritzler of trying to decieve the town by a "fake vote count" fades when the fact that DGB was scum is taken into consideration.
I would let the mod take care of other players behavior if he considers it abusive. Players should be trying to find scum.

Don't you think thats a rather WIFOM argument?

Don't you think you are just escaping to answer the arguments against you as always?

[Dead Rikimaru]

There are no cops or any other power role in this game.
How are townies supposed to find scum other than analizing other players behavior?
Most of my posts are about you because you are the person I suspect the most.
And I do not admire you, I just think you are scum.
Cheers.

[Dead Rikimaru]

Is TheCesspit still primarily under suspicion because of tidus' either-or comment? Just curious, I didn't think I'd seen much of anything else. Not willing to drop the hammer on neon until we finish discussing things today, we've still got plenty of time before deadline. Besides, I think I've got a better scum candidate in Fritz, even if no one else does.

Could you please explain why is Fritzler such a good scum candidate?
Not only he did a consistent campaign against DGB from start but without
post 527 LML would probably have been lynched instead of DGB.
Fritzler would only make sense as scum (in my opinion) if LML is scum too, that way since both of his scum buddies were going to be lynched pushing DGB's lynch would make him look much more pro-town at the same price (one scumbuddy).

Also, your post 536 was the

"reason"

for TheCessPit to unvote DGB 6 posts later. This unvoting would have saved DGB,

if Fritzler didn't convince Pooky to vote her in post 527

.
This interaction between the two of you even puts you higher in my scum list.

[Dead Rikimaru]

Also, your post 536 was the "reason" for TheCessPit to unvote DGB 6 posts later. This unvoting would have saved DGB, if Fritzler didn't convince Pooky to vote her in post 527.
This interaction between the two of you even puts you higher in my scum list.

This statement contains two problems.

1) Post 536 did not give me the reason to unvote DGB. 542 did it was directly from Fritzler's quote. Are you really claiming that Mr Flay's comments were such that

2) Your claiming my unvote would have saved DGB is also untrue. I placed the tying vote on DGB. To do that as scum is madness as the next vote (Pooky as it turns out) condemns DGB to the lead even I later unvote like I did.

Would I have unvoted if it had been closer? I have no idea, and nor do you. You can't guess what would have happened if history had been different. Or you can, but I don't think it's useful at all.

1) So, your vote was not influenced by Mr. Flay's analyzis, but you got to the same conclusion as he did (that Fritzler's vote count was an attempt to misguide the town).
Since then (for the rest of that Day and for the two following Days) you (along with Mr. Flay) have been trying to lynch Fritzler based on that conclusion (ignoring the fact that DGB was actually scum) and now .....

YOU VOTE MR. FLAY!

It's interesting how you claim that your conclusion was not influenced by Mr. Flay's and still vote him for having the same opinion as you and doing the same thing as you in the last days. Looks like a desperate distancing tactic to me.

2) You keep saying was your vote was important to DGB's lynch. Not true. DGB needed a

majority

to be lynched (if the number of votes were the same LML would have been lynched instead). The only votes that were important were the ones that were on her

by the end of the deadline

.
Votes that were removed before the deadline helped nothing in her lynch.
And if Pooky had not voted or if one of those voting her followed you and Mr. Flay LML would have been lynched.

vote: TheCesspit

[Dead Rikimaru]

Mod, could you please prod Thesp?

[Dead Rikimaru]

It is worth noting that the whole attack against the vote count Fritzer did was based on the fact Fritzer did a vote count and a demand that more people vote for DG at the same time, which you thought was bad (you said something about you wanted the editoral comments in another post, I think). As we now know, DG was scum, so even if Fritzer was using underhand or manipulative tactics to get more people to vote for DG, that dosn't make Fritzer more scummy; if anything it makes him less scummy. That seems a pretty bad reason to be attacking him.

It's not only worth noting.
It's what i have been saying for the last two game days.

[Dead Rikimaru]

Lloyd, I don't think we are going to see any new argumet that was not discussed yet at this point.

[Dead Rikimaru]

Well, as I told before Fritzler being scum makes much more sense if he is scum together with MrBuddyLee.

Why?

On Day 2 DGB and LML were both close to being lynched, but if they had the same number of votes LML would be lynched first since he reached minimun necessary before.

DGB was lynched, and Fritzler had an active role in getting her lynched. If they were both scum it would make little sense. Lynching his partner to look pro-town would give him little benefit in a game with so many players

unless

LML was scum too, in that case Fritzler would save his most experienced partner in exchange for his less experienced one and would still look more pro-town.

What I want to know from the Fritzler hunters (specially Lloyd) is:
- Do you agree with the Fritzler + MrBuddyLee (LML) combo?
- If not, please explain why Fritzler caused DGB to be lynched by convincing Pooky to give the last vote while he could just kept silent and see LML being lynched instead.

In case of doubt about what I'm talking about please read again Day2.

[Dead Rikimaru]

I'm more inclined to suspect

Flay

, but past evidence suggests that I'm naturally more inclined to suspect

Flay

.

Would I be right to assume that there should be a Fritzler in place of one of those Flays?

[Dead Rikimaru]

I am here. Sorry I got busy for some days and got away from all of my games.

I'd ask even more than Yosarian. I would like to suggest that everybody posted a list of three prime suspects.

Reason: We can get away with 3 wrong lynches before lynch-or-lose, but I noticed that people who almost get lynched in a day has been left alone during the next day.
I think that among the three most suspected people between all town there will be at least one mafioso (although we town suck very much at finding scum). So we need to find who everybody suspect NOW.

My prime suspects are (in no particular order):

- MrBuddyLee: Totally thanks to LML. Not only because of the interactions with DGB Lloyd pointed out but I find it very starange how he spent a lot of time trying to convince Lloyd to stop suspecting him and all of a sudden (when he felt out of the spotlights, just before leaving the game) he claimed to suspect Lloyd. This behavior looked very strange for me.
Also LML was one of the best options as mafia recruit.

- Fritzler: As I have been saying (a lot) Fritzler being scum would only make sense if he is scum with LML (read my previous posts). Since there are two mafia remaining a I was convinced Cesspit was one of them there was no space for Fritzler.
Now that Cesspit is proved innocent a mafioso Fritzler makes much more sense, specialy if BuddyLee turns out Mafia. (but makes less sense if BuddyLee isn't)
Fritzler is may be the best candidate to mafia recruit, although I don't see him killing Pooky so early in the game. (unless it was not his decision)

- Mr.Flay: Cesspit being innocent decreased my suspicion of Mr. Flay since most of it was based on Flay's interaction with Cesspit. Being probably the best candidate for mafia recruit keeps him up, specially after Yosarian posts.
Additionally, Flay also has a "strange behavior". Despite being the best candidate for recruit he seemed too eager to use the recruit as argument against other players, incluiding Pooky and Lloyd who got into the game replacing unknown players.

If all players agree I would like if we spent this next three days to check the suspects list of all players.
This will make lurkers participate more and will avoid random people being lynched on the following days (like randomacts and neongrey).
My vote will probably go to one of the three, unless someone make a very good case against someone else.

[Dead Rikimaru]

(twiddles thumbs)

I've got to say I find it odd that we're heading for a lynch of Mr. Flay, and there are only 4 votes on him, and yet no one has said they think he's a bad lynch. I'm not sure if he's scum and his scumbuddies are trying to be noncommital, or if he's town and the scum are trying to just quietly let the lynch happen, but either way I don't like it.

Flay is one of my suspects, but I didn't vote him earlier because I was expecting everyone would colaborate with our suspects list.
If there were more people suspecting creampuffater than Flay, for example, we could even have agreed and lynched him instead.
Looks like it's not only scum who is trying desperatly to survive. Townies are fogetting that they win when all scum are dead

even if they die in the process

and are trying just to get alive by not calling neither town's nor scums attention. (creampuffeater is the best example of this, all he says is he is not scum and votes the person closer to be lynched, without contributing at all) we are maybe minutes away from the deadline and now it's to late but let's not forget to take a look at this tomorrow.

Meanwhile I

vote Mr. Flay

. I can't believe some of his reactions to be sincere, like the surprise about Pooky and Fritzler's "friendship". I agree it's wrong, but it should be no surprise since they always do that.

Btw, Fritzler is by no means "cleared" because of Pooky. He wouldn't kill Pooky at this point but LML/MBL would. It's just a point to be taken in consideration, not proof of innocense.

[Dead Rikimaru]

To Lloyd: On Days One and Two you were very positive LML was Mafia along with DGB, and even tryed to convince everyone to lynch LML first because DGB was more prone to commit a mistake.
After that you gave LML/MBL up and went for Fritzler.
What do you have to say about MBL and Fritzler now?

[Dead Rikimaru]

Bah, Go Himalayans!

[Dead Rikimaru]

After some days of inactivity I was writting a very big post. It was really big and took me hours (because i was at work doing other things at the same time).

I didn'y manage to post it in time and Norinel closed the thread. I just saved the whole thing to post it in the other day but ended up nightkilled.

I was surprised I was nightkilled. I was in everybody's "can't read" list and Fritzler and Yosarian were still alive.

My prime suspects at the time were CES, Lloyd and MBL.
I never stopped suspecting MBL because it didn't feel right to me the way LML implored Lloyd to believe his innocence and when Lloyd actually stopped attacking him LML started to attack back. It didn't feel right to me in any way.

That behavior dissonance is what made me suspect Mr. Flay, and what made me started suspect Lloyd.

I agreed with everything Lloyd said about LML, and would have followed him in a MBL lynch (i could have done that even when Mr. Flay tryed to frame Fritzler, other thing that put MBL in my list) and when Lloyd stopped attacking MBL, even with a good reason like that, I started feeling his accusations were not that true, specially because he insisted in lynching DGB BEFORE LML.

If I went to endgame with CPE and MBL I would probably have lynched CPE. His behavior at all time was very scummy. He was doing his best to stay alive (like the last scum should do) instead of find scum (like town should do).

If I went to endgame with MBL and Twomz I would probably have voted MBL.

I liked very much the fixed deadlines, although I think they should be negotiable. If we didn't lynch Mr. Flay the time we did it would be a very big pressure for town find two scum in so few days.

Anyway congratulations Mr. Flay, DGB, Tidus and, specially, MBL for a good play.

Thank you very much Norinel and mathcam for a great game.