Mini 1211: Murder in Sicily [Over]

[Friend]

UNVOTE VOTE BOBSNOX

[Panacea]

As a rule, I do not like when players explicitly invite Night protection upon themselves. That could change, though, if we had a weak doctor in the game. Obviously. So, if Today were Softclaim Day (which it seems to be), this would be my declination to celebrate as of yet. One of you's is lying. That is all.

[Hikari Link]

As a rule, I do not like when players explicitly invite Night protection upon themselves. That could change, though, if we had a weak doctor in the game. Obviously. So, if Today were Softclaim Day (which it seems to be), this would be my declination to celebrate as of yet. One of you's is lying. That is all.

Any cop that doesn't invite night protection on themselves is a fool.

[Panacea]

And any clever scum would do the same.

Though your vote is on Bobsnox. If he swings and flips cop, you're confirmed scum... That being said... One of you has to die Today.

My vote is already on Bobsnox, right? Oh, good. Carry on.

[Maruchan]

What I find particularly interesting is that he is in no other games right now, yet is not posting here, even though he's been online just the other day to celebrate the town vctory in the game we were in together.

But Maruchan says later that he's flaked. So he's posting here on MS, just not any games?

He has made just the one post that I linked. Look here. So unless he has been replacing into a lot of games via PM and only ever bothered to post in this one thread (which seems fairly unlikely), then Maruchan is either mistaken or lying. And considering how easy it is to check the information, I'd wager the former.

Thats the point. That is the ONLY posy he has made in over a week, and before it the only posts he has made since this game STARTED, are in this game
[qupte="Hikari Link"]

And since you are (apparently) a PR, I can imagine why you'd want to not get yourself lynched.

That's the second time you've mentioned this, when we were lucky enough that no one appeared to mention it when it actually happened. I don't feel that this is good town play.

That's not completely true. His soft-claim was mentioned several times. And I can assure you, any scum worth his salt out there likely picked up on it the first time, if not the next few times it was slapped in our faces. He hasn't exactly been subtle about it. Better we get it out in the open so that he can be better protected tonight if he is essential.[/quote]
I honestly still have no idea what you guys are talking about

I would make a case, but my case would be on MusicNinja. and I think that THAT boat has been played enough already. I don't think I can squeeze anything out of his few posts that haven't already been said.

Do you have nobody else you can make a case against? If not, look at those that I or another have made cases against. ISO them and check the evidence. See if our claims hold up. Don't be afraid to double-check another person's work. You never know when you might be dealing with scum or if someone is mistaken on an issue.

There are other people that have cases that can be made against them. But I want musicninja lynched today.

In reality, I just really wish you guys hadn't believed in me so hard, not that I hold it against you, because I have to claim cop right now. I was really hoping I could hold off on it for a while, but I'm just too damn good at coming off town and while there is next to no chance of me being lynched today, I can't take the chance that I will get killed during the night. The truth is I basically jumped out of my seat the moment bobsnox claimed cop. While I admit that there could be two Cops, I'm very much willing to bet otherwise.

I really wanted to save my claim until tomorrow to see if we got a fake read from bobsnox so that we'd have another confirmed townie, but there are just too many factors that could make that gambit useless. I could die during the night and you might immediately call for his blood, or worse, you could keep him alive on the off-chance that he is a Cop. You guys could call bullshit tomorrow under the belief that I should have claimed today. He could claim he got roleblocked, making my wait useless. There could be a Framer and he could be a real fucking Cop. Or any number of other things.

It's far less risky to claim now and hope I can garner some sort of protection from a Doc or Jailkeeper or someone. Even if I get roleblocked, I can assure you I'm still extremely useful to have around alive. Not to toot my own horn, but I am rather good at scumhunting, considering all of my experience until now has come as a vanilla townie. That plus I'm gambling that even if we don't have a Doctor/Jailkeeper/etc, the Mafia won't target me for fear of one. And in the worst case scenario that they do, it's still a Cop for scum trade, which I'll fucking take any day of the week.
UNVOTE: Substrike22, VOTE: bobsnox

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I thought I said if there is a cop out there, to not CC bob. Also, I love the way this is done. "Hey everyone I know you all love me and trust me but you really shouldn't!!!! Oh by the way since you all adore me I'm the Cop. Lets kill bob."

Too opportunistic for my likings. Yes I like Link, yes I think that his wall was amazing and am glad he did it rather than just to lurk. No I don't think this makes him obvtown. It makes him a good player. Good player =/= obvtown.

[Maruchan]

damn i miss spelled quote.

[Whiskers]

Well, Maruchan, your softclaim is that you said "I'll claim tomorrow!"
I figure you're probably a cop. Since we have two cop claims already, I figure I can just go ahead and say it out loud, what I think.

[Maruchan]

... saying I would be willing to claim tomorrow is softclaiming?

good to know for future reference.

[Maruchan]

Oh and, as I said earlier, I won't make any confirmations either way on what my role is. WHy?

if I AM a (insert role you want to believe I am here) I don't want to confirm it, because I am then in danger.
if I am NOT a (insert role you want to believe I am here) I don't want to deny it because while it is still a possibility the scum have to decide tonight whether or not I am worth their attention in either rolecoping, roleblocking, or killing. Which would save a REAL (insert role you want to believe I am here) from being rolecopped, roleblocked, or killed.

So on that note I will commence promptly ignoring any hypothesizing on the topic of my role PM.

[Whiskers]

So, that was a softclaim for VT?

No, I understand WHY. Just, making the softclaim in the first place makes us (me) curious. Besides, you said you'd reveal it tomorrow, assuming you're still alive.

[Maruchan]

So, that was a softclaim for VT?

No, I understand WHY. Just, making the softclaim in the first place makes us (me) curious. Besides, you said you'd reveal it tomorrow, assuming you're still alive.

When I said I would I meant like along the liens if its required/asked and I feel the situation warrants it. I won't just go at the beginning of the day "I'm a -censored-"


And I didn't realize I was softclaiming sorry. The first time that is. I totally see how my last post could be taken as a VT softclaim, but like I said. I'm not going to discuss my role in case of either scenario.

[Hikari Link]

And any clever scum would do the same.

Though your vote is on Bobsnox. If he swings and flips cop, you're confirmed scum... That being said... One of you has to die Today.

My vote is already on Bobsnox, right? Oh, good. Carry on.

Actually, you are wrong. He could very well flip Cop and it won't change the fact that I am Cop. On the other hand, he could (and probably will) flip scum and the argument could still be made that I am very clever scum and there is just no Cop. But there's very little reason for scumLink to try and lynch copBob, while there is considerably more reason for copLink to want to lynch scumBob or copBob. scumLink would wait until tomorrow if a night kill failed. I can assure you any paranoia you feel regarding me is just that. It happens every game and it's going to continue happening until I stop playing Mafia. There will always be someone who thinks I'm up to no good. And this is no accusal, I assure you, but oftentimes, those pushing for the possibility of scumLink are in fact scum themselves. True story.

What I find particularly interesting is that he is in no other games right now, yet is not posting here, even though he's been online just the other day to celebrate the town vctory in the game we were in together.

But Maruchan says later that he's flaked. So he's posting here on MS, just not any games?

He has made just the one post that I linked. Look here. So unless he has been replacing into a lot of games via PM and only ever bothered to post in this one thread (which seems fairly unlikely), then Maruchan is either mistaken or lying. And considering how easy it is to check the information, I'd wager the former.

Thats the point. That is the ONLY posy he has made in over a week, and before it the only posts he has made since this game STARTED, are in this game

What does that have to do with you claiming he flaked in other games?

And since you are (apparently) a PR, I can imagine why you'd want to not get yourself lynched.

That's the second time you've mentioned this, when we were lucky enough that no one appeared to mention it when it actually happened. I don't feel that this is good town play.

That's not completely true. His soft-claim was mentioned several times. And I can assure you, any scum worth his salt out there likely picked up on it the first time, if not the next few times it was slapped in our faces. He hasn't exactly been subtle about it. Better we get it out in the open so that he can be better protected tonight if he is essential.

I honestly still have no idea what you guys are talking about

Whiskers already brought it up.

I would make a case, but my case would be on MusicNinja. and I think that THAT boat has been played enough already. I don't think I can squeeze anything out of his few posts that haven't already been said.

Do you have nobody else you can make a case against? If not, look at those that I or another have made cases against. ISO them and check the evidence. See if our claims hold up. Don't be afraid to double-check another person's work. You never know when you might be dealing with scum or if someone is mistaken on an issue.

There are other people that have cases that can be made against them. But I want musicninja lynched today.

In reality, I just really wish you guys hadn't believed in me so hard, not that I hold it against you, because I have to claim cop right now. I was really hoping I could hold off on it for a while, but I'm just too damn good at coming off town and while there is next to no chance of me being lynched today, I can't take the chance that I will get killed during the night. The truth is I basically jumped out of my seat the moment bobsnox claimed cop. While I admit that there could be two Cops, I'm very much willing to bet otherwise.

I really wanted to save my claim until tomorrow to see if we got a fake read from bobsnox so that we'd have another confirmed townie, but there are just too many factors that could make that gambit useless. I could die during the night and you might immediately call for his blood, or worse, you could keep him alive on the off-chance that he is a Cop. You guys could call bullshit tomorrow under the belief that I should have claimed today. He could claim he got roleblocked, making my wait useless. There could be a Framer and he could be a real fucking Cop. Or any number of other things.

It's far less risky to claim now and hope I can garner some sort of protection from a Doc or Jailkeeper or someone. Even if I get roleblocked, I can assure you I'm still extremely useful to have around alive. Not to toot my own horn, but I am rather good at scumhunting, considering all of my experience until now has come as a vanilla townie. That plus I'm gambling that even if we don't have a Doctor/Jailkeeper/etc, the Mafia won't target me for fear of one. And in the worst case scenario that they do, it's still a Cop for scum trade, which I'll fucking take any day of the week.
UNVOTE: Substrike22, VOTE: bobsnox

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I thought I said if there is a cop out there, to not CC bob.

You did say that. That doesn't make it the correct move. It just makes it what you think is the correct move. And I would have agreed if I hadn't been turned into a huge target.

Also, I love the way this is done. "Hey everyone I know you all love me and trust me but you really shouldn't!!!! Oh by the way since you all adore me I'm the Cop. Lets kill bob."

Too opportunistic for my likings.

Hardly. What I said was "Way to fucking paint a target on my back for the night kill guys." Who are scum going to target? bobsnox? No. He's probably scum and even if he isn't, any existing Doc would likely target him. Maruchan? Possible, but I have some reasons I'd rather not put out there just in case they are true. Hikari Link? *dingdingdngfuckingding* We have a winner. Not a claimed PR and very little suspicion on him? He's an excellent fucking target. The only other targets I can see are iamusername and Scumhunter.

Yes I like Link, yes I think that his wall was amazing and am glad he did it rather than just to lurk. No I don't think this makes him obvtown. It makes him a good player. Good player =/= obvtown.

[/quote][/quote][/quote]
Agreed. But it's certainly not a chance worth taking that the scum take it that way. You know what's bad? The fucking cop getting night-killed Night 1.

Well, Maruchan, your softclaim is that you said "I'll claim tomorrow!"
I figure you're probably a cop. Since we have two cop claims already, I figure I can just go ahead and say it out loud, what I think.

I highly doubt we have 2-3 cops. I've got a theory about that which I was trying to keep under my hat until he claims. I was thinking that if bobsnox is Cop and died tonight, he would claim Doctor and say that he had placed his protection elsewhere. So if bobsnox does flip Cop, Maruchan is my top pick. Unless he wants to go ahead and claim something else. If he flips scum, I have a couple theories that I would rather keep quiet for now.

... saying I would be willing to claim tomorrow is softclaiming?

good to know for future reference.

It is. Scum aren't going to claim and vanilla townies don't need to claim. It's assumed by default that everyone claims vanilla townie.

Oh and, as I said earlier, I won't make any confirmations either way on what my role is. WHy?

if I AM a (insert role you want to believe I am here) I don't want to confirm it, because I am then in danger.
if I am NOT a (insert role you want to believe I am here) I don't want to deny it because while it is still a possibility the scum have to decide tonight whether or not I am worth their attention in either rolecoping, roleblocking, or killing. Which would save a REAL (insert role you want to believe I am here) from being rolecopped, roleblocked, or killed.

So on that note I will commence promptly ignoring any hypothesizing on the topic of my role PM.

You can say that, but if you are willing to claim tomorrow, that implies that your shit is dependent on Night 1. It looks like you could be scum setting the stage for a fake claim tomorrow. Just putting it out there.

So, that was a softclaim for VT?

No, I understand WHY. Just, making the softclaim in the first place makes us (me) curious. Besides, you said you'd reveal it tomorrow, assuming you're still alive.

When I said I would I meant like along the liens if its required/asked and I feel the situation warrants it. I won't just go at the beginning of the day "I'm a -censored-"

That's certainly not how it sounded before. If you are a vanilla townie, you really shouldn't try t pose as a power role just to distract the Mafia, especially when you don't make an actual claim. You can make yourself look like scum and distract town power role. Like I said, it makes you look like scum waiting for some sort of flip tomorrow in the eyes of the town, which if anything, decreases your chances of being targeted by scum at night.

[Whiskers]

Link, what do you think of insane cops etc?

[Maruchan]

What does that have to do with you claiming he flaked in other games?

Looks like I was wrong sorry. I could have SWORN I saw his name in 2 other games when I was looking for games to replace into.

Hardly. What I said was "Way to fucking paint a target on my back for the night kill guys." Who are scum going to target? bobsnox? No. He's probably scum and even if he isn't, any existing Doc would likely target him. Maruchan? Possible, but I have some reasons I'd rather not put out there just in case they are true. Hikari Link? *dingdingdngfuckingding* We have a winner. Not a claimed PR and very little suspicion on him? He's an excellent fucking target. The only other targets I can see are iamusername and Scumhunter.

Good point. Sorry, I didn't look at it that way. You can ask Panacea for confirmation, but when I do night kills I usually don't kill people based on how townie they are. I usually do kills that incriminate someone else, or that are unlikely to have any chance of having a doctor or jailkeeper on them.

Yes I like Link, yes I think that his wall was amazing and am glad he did it rather than just to lurk. No I don't think this makes him obvtown. It makes him a good player. Good player =/= obvtown.

[/quote][/quote]
Agreed. But it's certainly not a chance worth taking that the scum take it that way. You know what's bad? The fucking cop getting night-killed Night 1.[/quote]
Wanna know whats worse? Mis-Lynching the Cop D1 before they have a chance to claim (giggles at Panacea) (I'm srs loling irl right now at this).

[monk]

Counter Claim???
UNVOTE:
VOTE: bobsnox

If Bob is a cop and link is scum then we can easily lynch his ass tomorrow, there's no point in him CC'ing in this case as he'd just hurt his faction.

[monk]

Link, what do you think of insane cops etc?

Insane cops are explicitly non-normal

[Maruchan]

He's right. any cops in this game will be sane.

[Hikari Link]

Link, what do you think of insane cops etc?

I think they are fucking bullshit and I certainly hope that isn't what I am. Of course, as long as my sanity level is only sane or insane and not naive, paranoid, or random, then it is easy to ajust for after the first mistake.

What does that have to do with you claiming he flaked in other games?

Looks like I was wrong sorry. I could have SWORN I saw his name in 2 other games when I was looking for games to replace into.

There is the minor possibility that he did, bu it seems overall unlikely, given his general activity level.

Hardly. What I said was "Way to fucking paint a target on my back for the night kill guys." Who are scum going to target? bobsnox? No. He's probably scum and even if he isn't, any existing Doc would likely target him. Maruchan? Possible, but I have some reasons I'd rather not put out there just in case they are true. Hikari Link? *dingdingdngfuckingding* We have a winner. Not a claimed PR and very little suspicion on him? He's an excellent fucking target. The only other targets I can see are iamusername and Scumhunter.

Good point. Sorry, I didn't look at it that way. You can ask Panacea for confirmation, but when I do night kills I usually don't kill people based on how townie they are. I usually do kills that incriminate someone else, or that are unlikely to have any chance of having a doctor or jailkeeper on them.

As far as I'm concerned, only bad town fall for the former because only bad Mafia make kills that incriminate themselves. It's too WIFOM to consider that kind of kill as a tell either way, so best to just look at the content of a player's actions. And the unclaimed, I would have fallen in the latter half too an extent. But it's far better to keep alive people that other people are suspicious of rather than killing one at random. When there are multiple relatively unsuspected people and a claimed Cop, scum have very good chances of hitting any one of those and it is generally worth the gamble to try for one of them and then push for a mislynch during the day. At least, that's my take on optimal scum play.

Yes I like Link, yes I think that his wall was amazing and am glad he did it rather than just to lurk. No I don't think this makes him obvtown. It makes him a good player. Good player =/= obvtown.

Agreed. But it's certainly not a chance worth taking that the scum take it that way. You know what's bad? The fucking cop getting night-killed Night 1.

Wanna know whats worse? Mis-Lynching the Cop D1 before they have a chance to claim (giggles at Panacea) (I'm srs loling irl right now at this).

Yes, that is worse. But that isn't the case here. I assume this is a reference to your last game, no?

Link, what do you think of insane cops etc?

Insane cops are explicitly non-normal

He's right. any cops in this game will be sane.

Really? That's certainly good to know.

[Whiskers]

That's wrong though. There can be one non-normal mechanic.

[Hikari Link]

That's wrong though. There can be one non-normal mechanic.

There can? This worries me.

[Whiskers]

i.e. A variant. I'm pretty sure. I may have misunderstood what "you can hve 1 non-normal role in your Normal game" means, but That's how I read it.
I'll go look at the board and bring you the exact quote.

I bring it up because if there's a sanity-level issue there's even More likely to be more than one cop.

[Whiskers]

Mini Normal Games

• Mini Normals can have a maximum of 13 players, but can be less.
  
• All flavor in Mini Normals must be public and must be entirely original. Flavor based on any sort of source material are considered Theme games.
  
• Roles must use standard names, and Role PMs should not contain flavor.
  
• The game can have either one or two Mafia groups and no more than one Serial Killer.
  
• There must be at least one Vanilla Townie, and a sample Vanilla Townie role PM must be made public.
  
• There can only be a maximum of one new/variant role in the game.
  
• Only normal mechanics and roles (besides the single variant) are allowed. See here for more information.

[Noramp]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bobsnox

my only is fear is scum getting a mislynch of our cop and a free kill at night because they won't have to worry about our cop anymore. That being said I trust the counter claim in general more so than the first claim especially D1.

[Whiskers]

In the link, it give a list of explicitly non-normal roles and mechanics, and al ist of normal roles.

I figure the Mini Normal game can have (up to) one explicitly non-normal role, plus as many of the other "normal" roles as it wants, so long as two of them are scum, and one of the players is a Vanilla Townie.

Doesn't mean there HAS to be a variant, and from what I hear it's bad news to try to outguess the setup.

[Panacea]

I apologize for my ignorance (this is my first actual non-Newbie), but how could he flip cop and you still be cop? I mean, which roles would produce that outcome?