[Mini 1205] Tough Guy Mafia - Game Over!

[LobsterCatapult]

weekends are bad for me, ill be back to reread this tonight

[HezLucky]

Nobody's posting.

I demand to know why fake cop Wicked has not been lynched yet.

Someone enlighten me.

[HezLucky]

Votecount

Wickedestjr - 3 (Horrifying Hero, el simo, HezLucky)

avasthearties - 1 (Wickedestjr)

Not Voting - tarsonisocelot, LobsterCatapult, YankCane151, avasthearties, Kid Know Nothing, ConfidAnon

The current deadline is Friday, August 19 at 11:59 EST. If a majority is not reached by that time, the player with the highest number of votes will be lynched. With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Still looking for a replacement for Kid Know Nothing.

Guys I have good news we only need 3 more people and we can lynch wicked.

[LobsterCatapult]

sorry...my other games are getting close to being done, and i focused on those.

ill be back after work

but yeah....i guess i wouldnt mind hopping on the wicked wagon, i just want to make sure its the right move.

[Wickedestjr]

I know several of you don't believe my claim, but lynching me is a stupid move. You guys have at least two more lynches to get rid of me (assuming there isn't a four person scum group in this game), so it doesn't make sense that you would get rid of me this early. There are most likely two mafia remaining in the game. Even if I was mafia, there is likely another mafia member out there who you can try to lynch. Also, if I'm mafia, there's nothing wrong with keeping me alive a few more days as long as you lynch me at some point- so it doesn't really matter when you lynch me. If I'm cop (which I am), lynching me a few days later is better because it means I get more investigations- so it does matter when I'm lynched. Why even take the risk of me being a cop? Keep me alive and I'll either be nightkilled or lynched after giving you 2-4 investigations to work with when I flip town.

@HezLucky- Your suspicion of me, IIRC, is because our reads differ. Why use a point against me that isn't valid until we've seen more flips? Furthermore, you've both acknowledged the fact that your reads aren't always very accurate and the fact that I have, in the past, been capable of nailing entire scumteams. So why does differing reads mean differing allignments, in this case? This point against me would only be valid if the players you suspect (and I believed to be town) were actually mafia. However, you earlier expressed a lack of confidence in your reads.

[tarsonisocelot]

Nobody's posting.

I demand to know why fake cop Wicked has not been lynched yet.

Someone enlighten me.

If Wicked is scum then the scumteam have to either give them up tomorrow to be lynched as obviously fake or have to abstain from killing toight if they want to pretend there's a doctor.

Leave them alive until tomorrow and either the scumteam will kill them if they're town and there's no doctor, the scumteam will not kill anyone giving us a free day or the scumteam will kill a random and we'll lynch Wicked tomorrow.

If they flip town then we may have an extra read. If they're scum there's no real downside to getting more interactions with them and possible analysable hijinks before they flip.

Either way they'll flip soon enough without lynching them right now this instant.

[LobsterCatapult]

Nobody's posting.

I demand to know why fake cop Wicked has not been lynched yet.

Someone enlighten me.

If Wicked is scum then the scumteam have to either give them up tomorrow to be lynched as obviously fake or have to abstain from killing toight if they want to pretend there's a doctor.

Leave them alive until tomorrow and either the scumteam will kill them if they're town and there's no doctor, the scumteam will not kill anyone giving us a free day or the scumteam will kill a random and we'll lynch Wicked tomorrow.

If they flip town then we may have an extra read. If they're scum there's no real downside to getting more interactions with them and possible analysable hijinks before they flip.

Either way they'll flip soon enough without lynching them right now this instant.

wait...what?

what do you mean the scum team either have to give them up? who is them? are you referring to "them" as a hydra?

Since we were so skeptical about wicked's claim yesterday, i'm now not really surprised he is still alive with scum hoping that wicked will be mislynched. HOWEVER, this is a really strange thing that neither the vig nor the "cop" were rbed, and the cop wasn't redirected. it was a big gamble for scum to make, however... im inclined to look into other candidates today as well. this isn't a 2 person scum team.

@ all yall who think wicked is scum, who do you think are possible buddies?

@any of yall who think wicked could be town, who do you think could be scum now, with relational information with rdash and bob being town?

quicklynching wicked is probably not the best play today.

[HezLucky]

@HezLucky- Your suspicion of me, IIRC, is because our reads differ. Why use a point against me that isn't valid until we've seen more flips? Furthermore, you've both acknowledged the fact that your reads aren't always very accurate and the fact that I have, in the past, been capable of nailing entire scumteams. So why does differing reads mean differing allignments, in this case? This point against me would only be valid if the players you suspect (and I believed to be town) were actually mafia. However, you earlier expressed a lack of confidence in your reads.

You're reducing my case to the "thinks like Hez" theory that

a) I used to use
b) I probably used in Open 302, a game which you were in.

I don't use it anymore. No confidence in it and it's too easily manipulated by scum. I would not be voting you if that was the only reason.


I'm lynching you for:
- being INCREDIBLY scummy day one, then conveniently claiming a role that prevents you from getting lynched. (my policy is to let a claimed cop give an investigation -- as it gives us even more information. But you messed that up as well. Your choice of investigation makes no sense and doesn't seem well thought out. Simply put, wicked, I DON'T BELIEVE YOU)
- yes, I'm lynching you for your reads -- I can't see a townsperson coming up with those reads. There are several people in this game who my reads differ from, but I'm not calling them scum.
- the counterwagon to you (ie. Avast) grew REALLY fast, and most of my town reads were on you and not him.
- your overall play this game hasn't exactly been town motivated. Why as a cop would you play so lazy? You seem to have no desire to scumhunt.

And as to your point on me being always wrong: bro, I'm not the only person who thinks you're scum.

I want an updated list of reads from HH, on that note.

[Horrifying Hero]

Why Wicked's Still Obvious Scum

First, A Quick Recap on His Miller Reaction.

I had a slight reason to doubt the miller claim, but there wasn't really anything I thought I could do to pressure you.

HH is correct that I don't care about the miller claim. I've explained why that doesn't make me suspicious and I've explained why I don't care about the miller claim.

I was never distrustful of the miller claim. I ignored the claim completely.

He doubts the claim, doesn't care about it, and states no distrust at the same time. He never ignored the claim completely either, in fact, it was a part of his earlier case against us.

All of these opinions can not co-exist. If you have never been distrustful of something, then you can not imply doubt (I have a

reason

to doubt it is one of Wicked's clever wordings to get out of saying things directly). If you don't care about something, then you can't use it in a case against someone.

Put bluntly,

he's a liar

Moving On. ConfidAnon was one of the

worst

possible investigation targets in the history of the universe. And Wicked had the worst reasons as well.

From memory, ConfidAnon was a lot less active when we were trying to figure out who to lynch. He said this was because of laziness so that means he could've posted, but chose not to. This shows that he didn't really care about who got lynched, imo.

He used a cop investigation on someone… because they're a lurker. This is weak,

shallow

reasoning.

Notice how this line of thought takes zero effort to come up. Notice how Wicked didn't bothered to go back and reread Vifam for connections. Notice how he didn't even READ Confid's play throughout the whole game and based his suspicion on that. He didn't even take Confid's character into question, Confid ALWAYS plays like a cheeky lazy flaker lurker.

THIS IS NOT HOW COMPETENT COPS INVESTIGATE!

Townies actually READ players motives throughout their whole play, they don't condemn them for an instance of laziness without at least looking at their character or their circumstances. And Lo' behold Confid's circumstances make him an even worse investigation. Hint, Hint, if Confid Scum didn't give a damn about who got lynched, then he wouldn't have put Vifam-Scum as a higher priority as opposed to, from your Pov either a COP or a VIG lynch that Confid scum could EASILY get. But the important thing is, Wicked never considered these scenarios as evidenced by his lack of actual thorough analysis of Confid's play.

I know several of you don't believe my claim, but lynching me is a stupid move. You guys have at least two more lynches to get rid of me (assuming there isn't a four person scum group in this game), so it doesn't make sense that you would get rid of me this early. There are most likely two mafia remaining in the game. Even if I was mafia, there is likely another mafia member out there who you can try to lynch. Also, if I'm mafia, there's nothing wrong with keeping me alive a few more days as long as you lynch me at some point- so it doesn't really matter when you lynch me. If I'm cop (which I am), lynching me a few days later is better because it means I get more investigations- so it does matter when I'm lynched. Why even take the risk of me being a cop? Keep me alive and I'll either be nightkilled or lynched after giving you 2-4 investigations to work with when I flip town.

@HezLucky- Your suspicion of me, IIRC, is because our reads differ. Why use a point against me that isn't valid until we've seen more flips? Furthermore, you've both acknowledged the fact that your reads aren't always very accurate and the fact that I have, in the past, been capable of nailing entire scumteams. So why does differing reads mean differing allignments, in this case? This point against me would only be valid if the players you suspect (and I believed to be town) were actually mafia. However, you earlier expressed a lack of confidence in your reads."

You're as transparent as fucking air you know that?

This 100% Manipulative propaganda. Wicked's play has degenerated to the point where he isn't even TRYING to scum hunt anymore. Paragraph One is preposterous. First off, We don't negotiate with scum. Next, what kind of Cop thinks like this? Wicked's agenda is purely based on upping his survival time for the sake of investigations. The problem here is that in Wicked's agenda, His Survival > REAL Scum Hunting. Look! Instead of persuading of us his townie motivations he outright says "lol since im scum you shouldn't lynch me because i haz investigation!"

His argument for survival is based on chance. This is what we call WIFOM. And this is very important! The argument for not lynching Wicked isn't even based on any type of analysis or reading his motivations. It's based on fucking WIFOM. Wicked-Scum isn't even arguing about how could bring scum to justice to prove his innocence, he isn't stating that he will give thorough reads like a REAL townie should do. He just wants to fake more investigations to live longer.

Now, paragraph two is more scummy gold. Appeal to fuckin authority when he has none. Discrediting Hez's reads based on his uncertainty. These are tied together into one very important fact.

Hez was correct about Vifam-Scum while Wicked wasn't even trying to read him. And Wicked STILL asserts that Hez should be lacking confidence and turn to WICKED'S

expert

authority. Wicked is continuing to manipulate Hez by

ignoring

this very, very crucial fact.

Wicked need to die

today.

We're fine with waiting out the day to find his buddy, but he dies today.

[HezLucky]

^^^ I knew HH wouldn't let me down.

Mod: about half this game is due for prodding -_-

[el simo]

Yup still happy with my vote.

[Wickedestjr]

@HezLucky-
-You are ignoring one of my main points. Your point is only valid if your reads are correct- something you can't know at this stage if you are town.
-The fast counterwagon on avasthearties was a result of a very strong case which was up against hardly anything.
-You calling me lazy is a hilarious joke.

@Horrifying Hero-
-When I said I was going to ignore and didn't care about your miller claim, I meant that the claim alone wasn't going to have any impact on my read of you. I later brought up a point against you that you weren't playing the way a miller should be playing. No inconsistency there.
-Way to take my post completely out of context, super scumhunter. When I drew attention to ConfidAnon's laziness that wasn't my reason for investigating him. Lateralus22 asked me why I investigated him instead of el simo despite el simo being higher on my suspicions list. I responded by telling him what things I found suspicious about CA and townish about el simo since I posted that scumlist. Also, the point isn't just that ConfidAnon was lurking. The point is that he was lurking near the end of day 1. At a time when we were deciding who we were going to lynch.
-I've tried convincing you that I'm town. Don't see why you think otherwise.

[Wickedestjr]

@HezLucky, Horrifying Hero, and el simo- If I'm scum, what is the advantage of lynching me today instead of a few days later?

I'm sorry but lynching me just doesn't make any sense. This has nothing to do with WIFOM or chance. It's fairly simple. If I'm a cop, you lose a few investigations from lynching me now. But if I'm mafia, there's nothing wrong with leaving me alive for a few more days so long as you lynch me later.

Also, Horrifying Hero, you've ignored me. If I'm scum, who is my scumbuddy? (You were wrong about Rainbowdash)

[Wickedestjr]

@Everyone not voting me- Would you support my lynch?

[LobsterCatapult]

@Everyone not voting me- Would you support my lynch?

your lynch would give us an EXHORBITANT amount of information. I'm ambivalent about your lynch. I don't really see what el Simo has done that is particuarly townie anyway. and now im wondering if hez was right about yank.

bottom line, i would lynch you today, if certain conditions played out of course id lynch you today.

but...id rather see KKN get replaced, see his replacements do work, and who is magic trainer?? i want confidanon and yankcane back.

im looking over this shit.

peerrssonnallly.....i dont see why people are freaking out that wicked has claimed to investigate confidanon. id personally, as a cop, want to investigate someone i'd have a null read on, especially if the vig had claimed to shoot my more probably scum reads. this could be wifom, but i dont see the big fucking deal about him investigating confindanon. idk about yall, but he wasn't that obvtown to me.

Kid Know Nothing - 5 (

vifam

, avasthearties,

bobsnox

, el simo,

Rainbowdash

)

There HAS to be scum somewhere in this lynch.

im going to go out on a limb here, and say that there are in fact 2 scum on this lynch, and that vifam was saying this shit to look townie.

hmmm the real thing is....if wicked is scum, i would expect his scumbuddy to do either of these things:

lurk
or be active then bus.

vote:el simo

[el simo]

@HezLucky, Horrifying Hero, and el simo- If I'm scum, what is the advantage of lynching me today instead of a few days later?

Your presence would distract the town.

If you're scum I don't want you alive, giving you the chance to distort our thoughts and even possibly prevent your lynching.

[tarsonisocelot]

Nobody's posting.

I demand to know why fake cop Wicked has not been lynched yet.

Someone enlighten me.

If Wicked is scum then the scumteam have to either give them up tomorrow to be lynched as obviously fake or have to abstain from killing toight if they want to pretend there's a doctor.

Leave them alive until tomorrow and either the scumteam will kill them if they're town and there's no doctor, the scumteam will not kill anyone giving us a free day or the scumteam will kill a random and we'll lynch Wicked tomorrow.

If they flip town then we may have an extra read. If they're scum there's no real downside to getting more interactions with them and possible analysable hijinks before they flip.

Either way they'll flip soon enough without lynching them right now this instant.

wait...what?

what do you mean the scum team either have to give them up? who is them? are you referring to "them" as a hydra?

Since we were so skeptical about wicked's claim yesterday, i'm now not really surprised he is still alive with scum hoping that wicked will be mislynched. HOWEVER, this is a really strange thing that neither the vig nor the "cop" were rbed, and the cop wasn't redirected. it was a big gamble for scum to make, however... im inclined to look into other candidates today as well. this isn't a 2 person scum team.

@ all yall who think wicked is scum, who do you think are possible buddies?

@any of yall who think wicked could be town, who do you think could be scum now, with relational information with rdash and bob being town?

quicklynching wicked is probably not the best play today.

I default to they/them if I can't remember the gender of a poster and am too lazy to check.
If we don't lynch Wicked today and if scum kill someone other than Wicked tonight then we lynch them tomorrow unless they have a guilty - if they have a guilty we lynch that person and lynch Wicked the following day (even if the guilty is real, Wicked has to die before MYLO). Scum giving up a kill would be attempting to make it look like there's a doctor that there isn't.


You are assuming that scum had the ability to redirect or roleblock. Roleblockers are ordinary enough that I could accept that as something to think about as a possibility but not redirectors.
Why do you think that scum has such powers? Only way I can see you thinking it strange that scum didn't roleblock/redirect is if you know scum have that power.


I think Wicked is probably scum. I think at least one of the scumteam is staying quiet now. Haven't decided exactly who I think they are. Will reread Rainbow's reads.

[Amor]

Votecount

Wickedestjr - 3 (Horrifying Hero, el simo, HezLucky)

avasthearties - 1 (Wickedestjr)
el simo - 1 (LobsterCatapult)

Not Voting - tarsonisocelot, LobsterCatapult, YankCane151, avasthearties, Kid Know Nothing, ConfidAnon

The current deadline is Friday, August 19 at 11:59 EST. If a majority is not reached by that time, the player with the highest number of votes will be lynched. With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

avasthearties, ConfidAnon and YankCane151 have all been prodded. Jeegus.

[HezLucky]

Leave them alive until tomorrow and either the scumteam will kill them if they're town and there's no doctor, the scumteam will not kill anyone giving us a free day or the scumteam will kill a random and we'll lynch Wicked tomorrow.

What? How long are we going to leave wicked scumbag alive? Right now he is scum just squriming for one more day. This is not town play at all.

[tarsonisocelot]

Leave them alive until tomorrow and either the scumteam will kill them if they're town and there's no doctor, the scumteam will not kill anyone giving us a free day or the scumteam will kill a random and we'll lynch Wicked tomorrow.

What? How long are we going to leave wicked scumbag alive? Right now he is scum just squriming for one more day. This is not town play at all.

Just until tomorrow.
Then we potentially get one more piece of information.
There are enough people alive that we can do this without risking the game.

You're right about Wicked's play being anti-town for the vast majority of this game and more so now, but I can hope that if they are town then knowing that they will be killed tomorrow they'll pick their investigation target wisely tonight and give us a set of reads to go on with (that we will completely ignore if they are scum).

I am willing to hammer Wicked tomorrow, or if we reach deadline today without an alternative.


LobsterCatapult: Why do you think scum have the ability to roleblock or rediect town powers?
Also I agree with you on there likely being one scum out of {avast|el simo} and that one likely being el simo based on the yesterday wagoning.
VOTE: el simo

[el simo]

Wait, why am I scum over Avast?

[el simo]

Also if you think Wicked is scum you have pretty good reason to think I am town - these two roles can't coincide.

[LobsterCatapult]

why cant they coincide? you havent done much to show that you arent a potential bus buddy.

[Amor]

Votecount

Wickedestjr - 3 (Horrifying Hero, el simo, HezLucky)

el simo - 2 (LobsterCatapult, tarsonisocelot)
avasthearties - 1 (Wickedestjr)

Not Voting - YankCane151, avasthearties, Kid Know Nothing, ConfidAnon

The current deadline is Friday, August 19 at 11:59 EST. If a majority is not reached by that time, the player with the highest number of votes will be lynched. With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

avasthearties, ConfidAnon and YankCane151 have all failed to respond to their prod. Hold on to your seats guys.

[Amor]

Tomie Uzumaki replaces Kid Know Nothing, effective immediately.