Mafia 137 - Neruzian Era Mafia SERIAL KILLER WIN!

[sorgster]

*cough*

I have a way to mod-confirm him, but I need a few more townies voting for him first.

@GreyIce: I have a feeling I'm not gonna like your method of confirming me.

You don't like the method of being investigated to be confirmed about your role? Sounds fishy to me.

He meant he was gonna get me confirmed by lynching me.

Oh, I thought he was going to investigate you.

[Neruz]

Edmund.Angles (

7

) -

mastin2, Empking, David Xanatos, warriormode, Maxous, sorgster, HezLucky

Maxous ( 2 ) -

GreyICE, Zdenek

Pappum's Rat ( 1 ) -

zMuffinMan

10 Votes to Lynch

Deadline in (expired on 2011-09-03 08:00:00)

SRD completely slipped under my radar, i'll put up a replacement request for him.

[GreyICE]

The word 'suspected' refers to the past tense.
So, yeah..

And the first paragraph was exagerrated. I stated the possibility of you being scum once.

You sure seemed certain that every argument against ToonFighter was bad and that everyone moving on to him was scum without ever really... talking to him.

You asked him a throwaway question once, and then ignored it. Like you seemed to ignore everything else he posted, in favor of attacking those attacking him.

Does the town want to know something interesting? Maxous never quoted or responded to his 'strong town read' once. He never tried to encourage him how to vote. He never responded to his arguments. He spent tons and tons and tons of time defending him, and never ever once tried to vote with him, influence him, understand him. Maxous never built off one of ToonFighter's arguments, never even really addressed him for some questions that were answered, well... uh... not at all. And Maxous never followed up to see if there was anything in what people were talking about. In fact he moved to pushing other lynches when the ToonFighter wagon started to build.

In other words when ToonFighter wagon was small, Maxous spent a lot of time defending him.
When ToonFighter wagon grew, instead of defending him more, Maxous just tried to get other people lynched, and even distanced from his own defenses!

Oh yes, this happened:

Muffinman - speak your grievance with Toon Fighter! (I went through his ISO and don't see scum motovation. Your earlier post about him was vague)

Toonfighter is at 2 votes!

I clearly state the Hiplop lynch is going nowhere and decide to unvote and change. I later go on Bowser who was a large wagon at the time.
This could be construed as bandwagoning cause I could'nt get hiplop lynched.
Hiplop says nothing.

If you had control of my vote what would you do with it?

Unvote
Vote: TF

3. I was asking in order to sheep you.

Empking (presumeably) decides his vote is'nt really going anywhere and blatnatly states he is sheeping another wagon.
Hiplop says nothing

unvote
VOTE: Hiplop

Yeah I changed my mind again, let's just do this already.

I change my mind and vote Hiplop again.

bullshit. Can you explain why you decided i've become scummier?

pretty much "I CANT GET HIM LYNCHED, SO IMA BANDWAGON AGAIN".

This in fact was not sheeping a bandwagon. But suddenly, changing your vote and sheeping a bandwagon is bullshit when I voted Hiplop.
Yet he did'nt pay a blind bit of notice when people were doing the same thing but were'nt voting him.
If he really beleived changing your vote to sheep was bull/scummy he would of said something about the earlier 2 cases I quoted.
This is self-preservation.

Toon Fighter is at 4 votes! Defense softens to attacking TF's attackers!

Yeah, alright

unvote

His reaction to L-1 and the hammer seems town. Might change my mind again but I'm thinking he is town here. Silly town but w/e

Reaction fish L-1 vote?

- don't like the sound of that.

Pappums rat is not scum - that wagon can go burn.

Next biggest wagon is Toon fighter - I don't think he is scum and a lot of the wagon consists of "just look how scum he is"
Also, as of 871 I would be happy lynching 5 out of the 6 players on the wagon. I don't trust it.

You know,
VOTE: Empking

TF is at 6 votes!

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go


Toon Fighter at 9 votes, and barely a mention.


Why it's the mysterious town read where you defend him less the more other players vote for him. Me, I tend not to really go all the fuck out in defending until the wagon at least builds some steam, unless the muttering is widespread enough to be getting on my nerves, but here apparently you go all out at 2 votes and don't mention it at 9!

Way to prevent lynches on people you think are town.

[zMuffinMan]

No, GI. It's nothing to do with "too scummy to be scum"

He unvoted hiplop, the only viable lynch other than toonfighter, to pursure a lynch on Empking.

How does this make sense if maxous is scum?

Why did he abandon the only wagon that was going to result in a lynch other than toonfighter... while choosing not to bus the hell out of toonfighter?

The only half-viable argument I've seen for Maxous being scum is that he was 'third party hunting' but considering he made no effort to really push a lynch on you, I don't see your point here. Thinking that you're playing like third party means nothing. Directing a tracker who may or may not have listened to him means nothing.

[GreyICE]

No, GI. It's nothing to do with "too scummy to be scum"

He unvoted hiplop, the only viable lynch other than toonfighter, to pursure a lynch on Empking.

How does this make sense if maxous is scum?

Why did he abandon the only wagon that was going to result in a lynch other than toonfighter... while choosing not to bus the hell out of toonfighter?

The only half-viable argument I've seen for Maxous being scum is that he was 'third party hunting' but considering he made no effort to really push a lynch on you, I don't see your point here. Thinking that you're playing like third party means nothing. Directing a tracker who may or may not have listened to him means nothing.

Uh... Muffin, how the hell does Maxous in that situation bus ToonFighter? You're being ridiculous here. He's spent the entire day defending him, how the HELL does he non-suspiciously change his mind? "He's town, he's town, he's town, don't vote him, he's town, wagon is growing... welp, guess he's scum, oh look scumflip you can see how much town cred I earned right."

Wandering off to a non-viable wagon to build new suspicions for later days is EXACTLY what I'd expect scum to do, at least ones with more than 5 brain cells. Sudden 180s for little reason on "town reads" that were being strenuously defended just when the wagon was growing is so fucking obvious.

You're used to play with scumbags bad enough to defend their buddies the entire day than 180 just before the lynch because they think THAT will build TOWN CREDIT, well, okay. Not everyone sucks that hardcore. Moving to a non-viable person Maxous knows won't be lynched as a 'safe harbor' that allows him to sit the day out is ONE HUNDRED FUCKING PERCENT what scum would do.

Town might fight the lynch to the death, but that theoretically looks bad when he FLIPS SCUM. Idiots might bus, but that looks REALLY BAD when he flips scum. Maxous wandered off to do nothing and work on getting mislynches for later days, and that's what SCUM DO.

[HezLucky]

No, GI. It's nothing to do with "too scummy to be scum"

He unvoted hiplop, the only viable lynch other than toonfighter, to pursure a lynch on Empking.

How does this make sense if maxous is scum?

Why did he abandon the only wagon that was going to result in a lynch other than toonfighter... while choosing not to bus the hell out of toonfighter?

The only half-viable argument I've seen for Maxous being scum is that he was 'third party hunting' but considering he made no effort to really push a lynch on you, I don't see your point here. Thinking that you're playing like third party means nothing. Directing a tracker who may or may not have listened to him means nothing.

Uh... Muffin, how the hell does Maxous in that situation bus ToonFighter? You're being ridiculous here. He's spent the entire day defending him, how the HELL does he non-suspiciously change his mind? "He's town, he's town, he's town, don't vote him, he's town, wagon is growing... welp, guess he's scum, oh look scumflip you can see how much town cred I earned right."

Wandering off to a non-viable wagon to build new suspicions for later days is EXACTLY what I'd expect scum to do, at least ones with more than 5 brain cells. Sudden 180s for little reason on "town reads" that were being strenuously defended just when the wagon was growing is so fucking obvious.

You're used to play with scumbags bad enough to defend their buddies the entire day than 180 just before the lynch because they think THAT will build TOWN CREDIT, well, okay. Not everyone sucks that hardcore. Moving to a non-viable person Maxous knows won't be lynched as a 'safe harbor' that allows him to sit the day out is ONE HUNDRED FUCKING PERCENT what scum would do.

Town might fight the lynch to the death, but that theoretically looks bad when he FLIPS SCUM. Idiots might bus, but that looks REALLY BAD when he flips scum. Maxous wandered off to do nothing and work on getting mislynches for later days, and that's what SCUM DO.

Who we lynching today?

[warriormode]

Unvote, Vote: Maxous

I like your thinking GreyICE.

[Zdenek]

Mod: my vote's on Maxous

Fixed

I agree with GreyICE's response to zMuffin's objections to Maxous lynch.

[edmund.angles]

I think scum would either defend or bus TF, So I'm not going to sheep Grey.

Not if they are trying lie low and prevent any links between themselves the person getting lynched.
Refusing to take responsibility for the lynch by moving onto Empking who had no chance to be lynched is blatant anti-town play.

To be fair, it's not like Maxous tried to hide it. The fact he was so blatant about it, over and over, makes me think Maxous is town. He tried way too hard to prevent the toon fighter lynch and even moved off the only other viable lynch at the time (hiplop) and onto Empking (??????), still saying he didn't like the toon fighter wagon (and would be happy lynching 5/6 on the wagon). That's not scum play. That's just wrong-town play.

Maxous had talked about lynching hiplop for a long time. I find it hard to believe that a town-Maxous would see so compelling town reads i hiplop play at the end, that they could not at least accept his lynch as a compromise over a lynch Maxous really thought was bad.

GI's case on me was plain stupid and misrepresenting.
This case is good:
VOTE: Maxous

PS: Please vig mastin even more. He has now preformed two instances of blatant anti-town play (fakeclaim + attitude towards No lynch).

[edmund.angles]

EBWOP: Man my spelling was bad to a point of not being readable.

Maxous had talked about lynching hiplop for a long time. I find it hard to believe that a town-Maxous would see so compelling town reads in hiplop's play at the end, that Maxous could not at least accept hiplop's lynch as a compromise over a lynch Maxous really thought was bad.

[malpascp]

This is very good I think. GI is town.

Vote:Maxous

I'm going to be V/LA for the next week

[Maxous]

GI's case on me was plain stupid and misrepresenting.

mm-hmm.
And being on the receiving end of a case that was misrepresenting you, one would think you would check the next case to see of there are any misreps there.
But you did'nt because if you looked, they are not hard to spot.

PS: Please vig mastin even more. He has now preformed two instances of blatant anti-town play (fakeclaim + attitude towards No lynch).

Before he fully instigates your lynch.
Pretty much everyone knows Mastin is town by this stage.

malpascp continues to be scummy.

[vezokpiraka]

vote edmund angels

I see something scummy about him. It's gut right now but I think I can explain it if he posts more.

[Empking]

vote edmund angels

I see something scummy about him. It's gut right now but I think I can explain it if he posts more.

Woo bit lucky for you that he happened to be the largest wagon.

[edmund.angles]

And being on the receiving end of a case that was misrepresenting you, one would think you would check the next case to see of there are any misreps there.
But you did'nt because if you looked, they are not hard to spot.

My vote doesn't rely on GI's case, but mostly on your attitude towards the hiplop and TF wagons at deadline. Ironically, zMuffin convinced me more than GI did.
That said I don't really see the misreps.
How about you point out the misreps.
Demonstrate how obvious they are.
Then hit people over the head for not seeing them.

Pretty much everyone knows Mastin is town by this stage.

No we don't, how can you get a read on someone if they can do whatever they want and people chalk it up to VI play. And if he is town, do you really want him to be around as a loose cannon at LyLo?

[sorgster]

2. edmund.angles <--Very minor scum-lean.
3. PranaDevil <--Very minor town-lean.
4. hiplop <--Flip-flops, so null.
8. Uprising <--Flip-flops, but overall leans town. (So, very minorly.)
9.

Torqez <--Town

.
10.

Maxous <---Also town

.
13. Pine
14.

pappums rat <--I'm guessing town

.
16. Tomie Uzumaki <--Scumz.
17. Hiraki <--Null. I'll look more into this.
18.

Toon Fighter <--Town

.
19. SomeRandomGuy <--Very slight town-read.
20. zMuffinMan <--Also a very slight town-read.

The gaps are people who I have trouble judging the content on, so far.

At first he only called about 5 people as town

Mastin called Tf town at the start. Either his starting posts were full of rubbish or he put the scum as the certain town ones. The others were also slight or neutral or whatever.

Vote Mastin

[mastin2]

Edmund calling for my policy vig-->confirmation he's scum. Living, breathing scum. Empking's defense of Edmund-->why he still is a scumread. Vezok's way of pushing Edmund-->town. Edmund voting Maxous the way he did-->Ed's scum, Max isn't. Sorgster voting for me with that reason-->obv-OMGUS. Will review if it's lolnewbtown-OMGUS, or lolnewbscum-OMGUS.

[mastin2]

In particular,

And if he is town, do you really want him to be around as a loose cannon at LyLo?

Loose cannons are far more dangerous to scum than they are to town. A loose cannon could be tunneling on town the entire game, scum keep them around thinking, "easy-win", BAM, suddenly reverse and vote the scum. (Ironically enough, Yosarian2 is the one who taught me this.) I'm dangerous because I'm unpredictable. Pro-town players respond? "Meh, he's Mastin. He's a VI, but he's town. Let him be. Scum will kill him when he gets to be too annoying." Scum players respond?

"He's a threat. (To us more than the town...) Look at how wild he is! (We don't want to waste our nightkill on someone who isn't incredibly pro-town just because they're a threat!) He could cost us the game! (...By suddenly voting us when we least expect it.) He should be removed by our vig. (Since we don't want to look scummy for pushing the lynch of obv-town. Impulsive, wild-card, loose-cannon, slightly-VI-town, but still town.) Why don't you see this?"

(Because towns are smart enough to know that wild-cards favor them far more often than they favor the scum.
Right now, I'm leashing myself, showing some restrain. I'll lose that control once I see no reason to hold back. And scum hate it when that happens. When one moment, they're facing a docile pushover who looks like an easy target...and then the next, they're wagoned up to L-1, being pushed by that very same person.
I love being impulsive. )

[Empking]

Mastin: When did I defend Edmund?

[mastin2]

vote edmund angels

I see something scummy about him. It's gut right now but I think I can explain it if he posts more.

Woo bit lucky for you that he happened to be the largest wagon.

Heck, with the sudden (quick, AKA fail) wagon on Maxous, the statement might not even be true, anymore.

[Empking]

vote edmund angels

I see something scummy about him. It's gut right now but I think I can explain it if he posts more.

Woo bit lucky for you that he happened to be the largest wagon.

Heck, with the sudden (quick, AKA fail) wagon on Maxous, the statement might not even be true, anymore.

1. That commentry is nonsense.
2. Attacking a guy that happened to bandwagon Edmund is not even close to defending Edmund. Maybe if I attacked Grey or myself you'd have a point but I didn't; I attacked the eright voter on a sure thing.

[sorgster]

Edmund calling for my policy vig-->confirmation he's scum. Living, breathing scum. Empking's defense of Edmund-->why he still is a scumread. Vezok's way of pushing Edmund-->town. Edmund voting Maxous the way he did-->Ed's scum, Max isn't. Sorgster voting for me with that reason-->obv-OMGUS. Will review if it's lolnewbtown-OMGUS, or lolnewbscum-OMGUS.

@mastin, phoebus(who lewarcher replaced) was also on your town list at the start of the game. I think you are scum. Those lists were random, made you suspicious at the start, then hiplop, who attacked you, became suspicious,etc. Imo your lists were as scummy as they can be. Maxous seems like scum and was among the first few people you called town. So was tf.

[GreyICE]

Actually I'd pretty much love having you in my town were I scum, Mastin, you're much more manipuable than you think you are

That being said, sure, scum generally hate unpredictability. But there's a point of unpredictability where you have ceased to be 'who knows what he'll do' and more 'even if he's town, can we trust him?' Fakeclaiming power role results is that level. You think I'm ever trusting a cop guilty from you in any game ever? No? Were you the town cop, I wouldn't trust a damn thing you claimed about it. In a way, you've already helped the scum - they know even if you were an information role, they could probably get out because of people like me or anyone else looking at your 'lie detector' claim and just rolling our eyes - so you're bad to shoot, because you're a null information role. You think if you claimed a cop innocent on a player I'd remove my vote? I think not.

[Neruz]

Mine

[Neruz]

Also mine.