Mini 1221: Vegas Mafia (Over!)

[Hikari Link]

/confirm

[Hikari Link]

Please read my signature.

Fucking hate RVS, but it seems to get the ball rolling, so
VOTE: Timeater
Because I have a friend named Tim and I'd rather he wasn't eaten.

[Hikari Link]

DemonHybrid is starting to sound full of shit.

VOTE: DemonHybrid

Let's see how you react now that the pressure is on.

[Hikari Link]

I dont know the first thing about you. i cant pretend to know what is in your head. maybe you were? maybe you werent? i dunno. Why is it that your vote is pressure and mine is scum? why exactly do you get to decide what my vote accomplishes compared to yours? its like 2 seconds into day 1, im not really expecting anyone to get lynched anytime soon whether its you trying to get timeater or me you. but that doesnt mean i wont vote/call someone out on behavior i dont like, just like you have with me

Okay, so, you have a vote. First post of the game, and it's without reason; a second vote on a bandwagon. Do you absolutely think that I was trying to hide something or get Timeater lynched? Because those are the two main reasons on why you'd feel the need to vote it.

Then you come in, and vote me for a non-RVS reason. It's for me being the 2nd vote on a wagon, and I honestly don't believe that you legitimately found it scummy. There are textbook RVS wagons ALL of the time, in nearly every game, and you waltz in and place a vote for someone trying to get the game out of RVS. The only "shiftiness" is what you've made of it, and that's what's scummy.

Still just sounds like noob motivation to me. I know I used to think like that when I was a new player.

I just remembered something. One time I called someone out for being the second vote on an RVS wagon. Then I believe I got lynched for it. Come to think of it, I think it was DH that was the one to get my lynch going.

Link please. This could be some solid evidence if DH was scum that game.

[Hikari Link]

Hi Link is town and is thinking just like me.

I will refrain from saying the same about you until you prove yourself a bit more. Last guy I had calling me town flipped scum.

[Hikari Link]

Link please. This could be some solid evidence if DH was scum that game.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2992663

But he actually was town in that game. Still...

Well, it does show that he knows this can lead to shit lynches, if nothing else. Worth keeping an eye on him, at least.

[Hikari Link]

Link please. This could be some solid evidence if DH was scum that game.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2992663

But he actually was town in that game. Still...

Didn't read this before I posted. Just got back from a meeting.

Opportunity votes are NOT shit things to vote for, and that's all I really have to say. My mind isn't 100% set on a ryuu lynch, but right now, he's the scummiest guy out of the gate. If things change, I will be flexible with my vote.

Link and Empking are town.

I don't care for town declarations without reasoning behind them.

[Hikari Link]

Link please. This could be some solid evidence if DH was scum that game.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2992663

But he actually was town in that game. Still...

Didn't read this before I posted. Just got back from a meeting.

Opportunity votes are NOT shit things to vote for, and that's all I really have to say. My mind isn't 100% set on a ryuu lynch, but right now, he's the scummiest guy out of the gate. If things change, I will be flexible with my vote.

Link and Empking are town.

I don't care for town declarations without reasoning behind them.

I thought it would be self explanatory, but scum don't usually go out on a limb making bold statements like "I think he's full of shit", and that's it. Especially someone like Empking.

Are you an alt, by the way? Curious.

No, I'm not. Why, do I remind you of someone?

[Hikari Link]

Not really, but you have a very sharp playstyle, so I was wondering.

Are alts known for sharp playstyles? Or are you implying that I come off as more experienced than a player of my record typically would?

[Hikari Link]

Not really, but you have a very sharp playstyle, so I was wondering.

Are alts known for sharp playstyles? Or are you implying that I come off as more experienced than a player of my record typically would?

You come off as more experienced.

Well I have some minor off-site experience. But, at the risk of sounding cocky, I'd say the main reason is just because I'm a fairly good player. I realy took to the game well from the outset and my rate of growth has been rather fast.

[Hikari Link]

Fair enough. I'm two months late saying this, but welcome to the site.

Thank you.

Link is very good. Has been from the first game of his I read on-site.

Anyways, /confirm

Hi Link, Hey Hellhound. Nice to see you two.

Holy shit, I come home expecting a nice relaxing day of reading 1-2 new posts and find out I am inned for a game I completely forgot about and its already 2 pages deep! Let me read some of the blocks already posted and I will get back to you guys later tonight with my thoughts. Let me just figure out what games I am in, update my wiki, and keep my tabs set up nice and easily.

Expect to see a post from me in an hour or two.

You know what's worse? You also inned for a game that is 4 pages deep. And guess who else is in it? Take your time getting settled in, we can wait.

FoS: Maru

- Buddying.

I wouldn't call it buddying yet. We'll see if he keeps it up. Really just seems like his meta from what I've seen of him though.

[Hikari Link]

Vote: DemonHybrid

Demon, a question for you. Why did you take it upon yourself to answer my request in #26 then proceed to not really say anything?

1. You say you dont have a meta but contradict yourself by saying you play quietly as scum.
2. "Go review my games" is not an adequate response to my post in #26 by any standard. So why even say it.

Post #28 has left me somewhat baffled.

@everyone but demon

Demon's initial reaction to ryuu could be considered townie response, considering his level of passion. But said passion only came after he was bullied into justifications. Demon assumes town is a certain way only and anything that deviates from what he conceives of what town should be is suspect. It doesn't seem like he's willing to account for the fact that ryuu might be a noob, or that simply that there is not alot of weight attached to the attack on him. There are countless variables he seems unwilling to account for. It seems fishy. His past few posts have been a little off. "Hikari and Emp are town" - "Link are you so sharp/experienced". Seems like a nice little detour for the pressure on him.

Hardly a good detour. He's still got the votes on him and I don't think it's likely to change soon. I'm just not really pushing it right now because I'm not completely convinced of his scumhood yet. I'm sure we'll see more pressure on him once other players start coming in and reading him.

[Hikari Link]

I honestly think this Demon vs. Ryuu is town on town. I don't think that between the interaction with them there is any scumieness whatsoever, and they are both grasping at straws so that they don't look to be backing down, because backing down just because someone else wants you to is a scummier read than grasping at straws.

I disagree on this point. I think someone willing to back down when they realize they are wrong is far more town than grasping at straws to maintain the facade of inconsistency.

I also think though that Demon's interactions with link appear to be AtEing. Possibly Empking's interaction with Link too, but I honestly think he was just saying he agreed with everything Link was saying. Which still isn't always a smart idea.

Remains to be seen at this point.

@Link, i don't know what it is but your play style this game seems MUCH different than the two other games I have to compare it to. I'm thinking you're either scum here, or I have been totally mis-reading you for the past week.

I'm inclined to disagree. At best, my play is evolving. But then, those are the results of playing in 4 games at the same time for a relatively new player. I play the same way that I always do all the time because my playstyle is completely independent of my role.

FoS: Maru

- Buddying.

I have links to every game I have ever played in on-site. Go to any game on that list that isn't still in-queue, ISO me, and read my first post. I start out EVERY GAME by saying hi to people I recognize. Before you FoS me for it, FoS the people in this game that did it on Page 1 also. I am doing the exact same things they are, the only difference is I didn't make it in time for page 1.
^This. I really can't see the difference at all. Maybe if it weren't your first post of the game.

You know what's worse? You also inned for a game that is 4 pages deep. And guess who else is in it? Take your time getting settled in, we can wait.

Both of these games either didn't exist or were locked in confirmation when I last looked, before I left Chicago to head back home. Its surprising how quickly they jumped out of the gates on my two-hour drive. I think I am settled in pretty well now, I have read without skimming, and paid attention to both now, so I don't think my performance was affected. The perks of having no live.
Hear, hear! No life FTW!

Damn, late to the party again. Anything beyond page one Is a disaster for me
onto the game now. My catchup will be around shortly but I'm glad to be back playing with empking, DJ and DH again. We've had good games in the past, certainly Donner party and Iowa mafia come to mind :p

Hikari link is a nice face to see again. IIRC he likes to be called Hikari :3

Eat a bag of dicks, TS.

@Empking

Who is the second best player here?

why are you interested in the best players.... A harsher player than myself would perhaps say you were picking NK choices...

I hadn't noticed that. Either that or he hopes to find someone to sheep behind.
I don't feel like breaking down the rest of your post, which I agree with to an extent, but I really think that there isn't as much buddying as is being thrown around. But maybe I just don't perceive it that way because it has no bearing on how I view them in terms of scumminess. The fact that you are so talkative this game though has me partially worried, considering how much you weren't saying in that last game we had together. Care to explain this discrepancy? Could scumTS meta be to appear smart to implicate others?

@Mod:

Why!? Why is my name the only one abbreviated? And in the way that I hate the most too? Troll mod is troll? My signature, please read it.

apparently not.

but that doesn't make me scum.

that means I don't understand RVS. Besides, why thank you for ending RVS with a vote on someone with no explanation? if you are going to end it, wouldn't it be better to do it with a vote that has, i dunno...something to go off of? I saw something shifty and i address it. I'm sorry if there's something wrong with calling out a shifty action. I was under the assumption that's how things get done in here =/

Scum caught for the wrong reason.

VOTE: NintendoAddict

You realize that post was from hahonryuu, right?

I always claim at L-2, and I'm a vanilla townie.

I don't have time to talk to twisted, but you're missing the obvious dissonance on Timeater between posts like...

Gonna have to disagree with DH about his point in 17#. Not defending or attacking, just disagreeing. (OMG Timeater overly cautious and nervous scum!)

@Empking

Who is the second best player here?

@nintendo

How much information is needed to end the RVS?

Requesting meta citation on DH's playstyle if anyone has played with him before.

and

Vote: DemonHybrid

Demon, a question for you. Why did you take it upon yourself to answer my request in #26 then proceed to not really say anything?

1. You say you dont have a meta but contradict yourself by saying you play quietly as scum.
2. "Go review my games" is not an adequate response to my post in #26 by any standard. So why even say it.

Post #28 has left me somewhat baffled.

@everyone but demon

Demon's initial reaction to ryuu could be considered townie response, considering his level of passion. But said passion only came after he was bullied into justifications. Demon assumes town is a certain way only and anything that deviates from what he conceives of what town should be is suspect. It doesn't seem like he's willing to account for the fact that ryuu might be a noob, or that simply that there is not alot of weight attached to the attack on him. There are countless variables he seems unwilling to account for. It seems fishy. His past few posts have been a little off. "Hikari and Emp are town" - "Link are you so sharp/experienced". Seems like a nice little detour for the pressure on him.

This.


Wake the fuck up.

There is no dissonance between the first two quotes and the third. They came about 30 posts apart as a case was built on you and the vote isn't all that suspicious.

"I'm not attacking nor defending"

"Can I get some meta?"

-3 votes later-

"FUCKING KILL HIM"

Technically, 2 votes later. The first had already been placed on you. And as I said before, also 30 pages.

Yeah, here's one, and another and you guessed it, another here where I had an aggressive, scumhunting attitude and HEY, look at that, I flipped town but was lynched by a bunch of people with heads up their asses making cases like "you made "compliments"" and "here's why I think he's scum, but he's NOT to answer my very obviously laid out, timed and calculated case", which was made by obvious fucking scum and something that you guys can't comprehend.

Cheers.

Now of those games, how often was the target of your aggression scum? That's a pretty important question to answer before I decide whether or not to unvote.

[Hikari Link]

you skimmed it like you say. took me an hour to do that post so it doesn't make me all too happy

I'll go and Iso timeater just for you DH though.

I skimmed it because I have an RA meeting in 2 minutes, and I'm on my phone. If I had the time, I'd be going in depth. Like everything else misrepresenting me in this game, my skimming of your case =/= I don't care for it. I do, I just don't have time.

Will post later if I'm alive.

UNVOTE: DemonHybrid
You get a brief reprieve from me. I'll not have Day 1 end this early, but you are still at the top of my scum list for right now. Timeater will be watched as well, so don't think your arguments aren't being noted.

Link: So Cold was not scum. I was right on all counts for sorasville and inglourious (save 1 at the end).

Fair enough. So you know that this tactic isn't 100% accurate and yet you jumped on hahonryuu so fiercely? Still, it's not completely inaccurate, so I can see why you might continue to use it. But considering how often it apparently gets you lynched, maybe you should work on fine-tuning the technique?

I don't feel like breaking down the rest of your post, which I agree with to an extent, but I really think that there isn't as much buddying as is being thrown around. But maybe I just don't perceive it that way because it has no bearing on how I view them in terms of scumminess. The fact that you are so talkative this game though has me partially worried, considering how much you weren't saying in that last game we had together. Care to explain this discrepancy? Could scumTS meta be to appear smart to implicate others?

you don't find buddying scummy is what you're saying? shrug

No, I just wouldn't call it buddying. Not particularly hard buddying at any rate. Obviously, if it is something persistent then that is a different story. It's sort of a case by case basis for me.

I'm talkative this game? well like yours, my playstyle is evolving so I don't see much of a discrepancy. I can link you to past town games of mine where I've been talkative if you'd rather

That won't be necessary.

I think in our last game I lurked mainly because I was in way too many games at the time and was overcommited, so had very little time for that game. Right now I'm only in 2 games and am off school, so have much more time for this one. I also find mini normals more interesting than newbie games. That may be why I appear more talkative (although bear in mind that last post of mine was a catchup post so It's bound to be big)

Fair enough.

imho, scumTS is far from smart. If you'd like I can link you to a pair of my scumgames where I get lynched D1 (they're also newbie games as well)
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=17314
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=18221

Ah, but as you said, your playstyle is evolving, no? Maybe after two lynches on Day 1, you've decided to approach scum differently? Just saying.

Damn, late to the party again. Anything beyond page one Is a disaster for me
onto the game now. My catchup will be around shortly but I'm glad to be back playing with empking, DJ and DH again. We've had good games in the past, certainly Donner party and Iowa mafia come to mind :p

Hikari link is a nice face to see again. IIRC he likes to be called Hikari :3

Eat a bag of dicks, TS.

*munch munch

Y'know some people don't appreciate jokes anymore

*munch

I don't appreciate being trolled is more like it.

[Hikari Link]

Unlike Link I am not going to give you a pass

What's this about me giving passes?

[Hikari Link]

@link

Just meant your unvote

Well I guess if you want to call not wanting a Day 1 lynch in under 24 hours a pass, then sure...

[Hikari Link]

This was honestly supposed to be posted a couple hours back, but apparently I never hit submit...

@Maruchan, Zdenek, and The Tick:

What are your thoughts on Link? What are your reads on him?

Why just those 3 specifically? There are more players in the game than them.

@Empking, Link, and nintendoaddict:

What are your thoughts on Twistedspoon? More specifically this post: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3346599

Seems like a legitimate response.

[Hikari Link]

I gotta wonder what the distate for being called "Hikari" is about. Is it one of those SN's where you lost a dare and had to use it?

*sigh* This question again. Well now there's a subsection in my wiki page about it.

[Hikari Link]

Quick Note: I am posting this as I go along.

First of all, the wagon on DemonHybrid (now my) slot looks fairly town from the first 30 posts.

Post#20: @Nintendo: How is not having a reason to vote in the RVS (which has Random right in the name) scummy?

Post#52: I don't really see this post as buddying. I'm curious as to what is scummy about this post from Empking.

Post#55: First significant case of scumhunting; definitely getting a town vibe from Timeater.

Post#72: This post is giving me really stange vibes. He says that the current conversation between Demon vs Ryuu look to be Town vs Town, then still puts suspicion on Demon for an AtE. Afterwards, he spends 3x the text explaining his situation when he doesn't need to. At this point, he's my biggest scumread.

Posts #78-87: Seeing Twistedspoon as town.

The Hikari Link - Twisted Spoon interaction at the bottom of page 4 looks like Town vs Town.

Post#97: @Link: The unvote is curious to me. If you have 2 scumreads, I would assume that you would vote your second if you unvote the first.

Post#98: Definitely starting to see the suspicion on Timeater.

Post#109: The first response is giving me a stronger scum read.

Post#114: So who's scum, Timeater?

Post#117: Hey Tick, who's scum?

Post#118: That's a pretty weak argument for page 5. Further explanation would be welcome.

Post#137: This is not scumhunting. A terrible vote on top of that is hardly compelling.

Post#141: I'm getting huge scumvibes from this post. Maruchan, instead of explaining why he has his vote on DH, opts to try to explain why he's not simply bandwagoning.

Post#145: DJ has an interesting connection. Just because someone attacks someone who is voting someone doesn't mean they're defending it. It looks more opportunistic than genuine.

Post#149: This post has a lot of sheeping and misreps. The vote in this post also is giving me really weird vibes.

Page 7: Ugh. That was really depressing to read.


---


UNVOTE: Timeater
VOTE: Maruchan

I'm liking a Maruchan bandwagon right now.

I am also suspicious of Timeater, don_johnson, and Nintendoaddict1. There are a couple people I'm wary of at the moment, but that's not important right now.

I will answer any questions, since I mostly skimmed (especially the bigger posts).

Solid post that feels town. I'm not really sure on the Maruchan case, because I know that I personally play more of a defensive townie game when I'm under fire, to an extent. I don't particularly see it as a scumtell and almost see it as more townie, just because I think trying to redirect suspicion to another is more scummy than trying to make oneself look innocent. But that is just the way I usually look at it. I realize it's not a perfect outlook, but it has a lot to do with my gut too. I'd say Maruchan is definitely still worth keeping an eye on though.

Timeater is definitely my top suspect now. To answer your question why I didn't vote on anyone after DemonHybrid, it was because as I said, it was a "brief reprieve" and so I was waiting to see if he could convince me he was town, particularly since my Timeater potential read was partially based on how town DH looked. If he had continued to appear scummy to me, I had planned to put my vote back on him. His leaving and your townish activity so far have definitely swayed me, so now I can focus my attentions on my top suspect, Timeater.

VOTE: Timeater

Not sure I approve of him taking a break for a day or two. I don't want to lynch him while he's gone, but the fact is he came out of that argument with DH loking pretty scummy. And that's on top of his existing scumminess. Going into hiding for a couple day looks to me like it could be an attempt to let the heat on him blow over and let everyone get a new suspect or to giv him time to come up with a new plan.

First of all, the probability that an RVS wagon on scum gets driven up to L-2 like that is close to 0, so lynching DH for his attack on hohanryuu would be stupid.

no

I was exaggerating, but after a quick look through completed mini-normals in the queue, leading early wagons seems to have a less than random chance of being on scum, so my point stands.

I'm catching up right now, but that last quote was not me.

Yes, I know. It's been caught.

What are your thoughts on Link? What are your reads on him?

Comments like "let's see how you react now that the pressure is on" always ping my gut scumdar hard. When they are built into votes, they provide scum an easy means of unvoting because they can say that they were voting for pressure. It especially looks bad in the context of Link's post because he also voted for a real reason.

He does very little in the way of scum hunting. Mostly he critics and argues against points that others are making without really expressing his own thoughts. In 11 he excuses himself from not pushing DH's lynch, which I don't really like, but he does push it subtly by saying "I'm sure we'll see more pressure on him once other players start coming in and reading him."

He's as scummy as can be.

Unvote
Vote: Hikari Link

Hardly, sir. That's merely my playstyle. But I'm sure you'll see that as time goes on, so I'm not particularly worried.

[Hikari Link]

VOTE: Timeater

Not sure I approve of him taking a break for a day or two. I don't want to lynch him while he's gone, but the fact is he came out of that argument with DH loking pretty scummy. And that's on top of his existing scumminess. Going into hiding for a couple day looks to me like it could be an attempt to let the heat on him blow over and let everyone get a new suspect or to giv him time to come up with a new plan.

Would a Goon trying to pin somebody just back off and act like Timeater did when yelled at, though? A real Goon would try to find some way to keep tunneling. Timeater just realized his position was full of crap and decided to pull out.

I'd rather say Timeater was a Townie who went in gung ho, fucked up, pulled out, and tried to save face than a Goon who fucked up and did a half assed job of covering his tracks with a topic switch (calling DH badtown)

I don't think so. It would be pretty hard for scum to continue pressing the issue after DH said he was replacing out. The best he could get away with at that point is just plain dickery. DH was too clearly frustrated town and so it's not really esy to tell what Timeater's motivation was at that point. But somebody has to be scum and he's definitely got some scummy points.

[Hikari Link]

Link (sorry) -

No worries, I know it was an accident.

[Hikari Link]

Now see, if I had JUST been called out for the DH vote, I would have JUST defended my vote and why DH is scummy. But I was called out for the DH vote AND voted on. I found

the more pressing matter is to prove my innocence

, because of the vote on me. And it would also effectively explain my vote on DH at the same time.

If you are town, town shouldn't have to try to be innocent, scum have to do that.

Trying to be innocent and proving your own innocence are separate things. Proving your own innocence can help the town by avoiding a mislynch. It is a fact that msilynches happen and they can hurt the town. If you can avoid a mislynch by showing you are innocent, you have done a service to the town.

[Hikari Link]

vig: Maruchan

Are you a Day Vig? Did you really just Vig a townie like that!? Is that even a thing? I've heard about it in another game, but I don't really know if it exists.

[Hikari Link]

well it is the

Random

voting stage

reasons aren't neccessary in RVS

Not necessary, no, but they are still used a lot.

Link: "Are you a Day Vig? Did you really just Vig a townie like that!? Is that even a thing? I've heard about it in another game, but I don't really know if it exists."

You know he's a townie? Wow.

Vote: Link

Yeah, cause he's like obvtown as hell. I'm in 3 games with him and I'm noticing like no variations. Seems unlikely he's scum in all three.

[Hikari Link]

@Zdenek: If you are DayVig, does using your power end the day?

[Hikari Link]

well it is the

Random

voting stage

reasons aren't neccessary in RVS

Not necessary, no, but they are still used a lot.

Link: "Are you a Day Vig? Did you really just Vig a townie like that!? Is that even a thing? I've heard about it in another game, but I don't really know if it exists."

You know he's a townie? Wow.

Vote: Link

Yeah, cause he's like obvtown as hell. I'm in 3 games with him and I'm noticing like no variations. Seems unlikely he's scum in all three.

Using on-going games(especially ones in which you have not seen his flip) are moot points to use.

It's not to me when I have a town read on him in each game. The point is what

I

think of him.

[Hikari Link]

@Zdenek: If you are DayVig, does using your power end the day?

I doubt it. That would be detrimental to town. Usually any form of day-power doesn't end the day. The only thing that ends the day besides a lynch is a modkill on a townie.

The town getting two kills in one day phase seems pretty unlikely though, doesn't it? And I'd imagine the DayVig isn't expected to be thrown around all willy-nilly like that.

[Hikari Link]

It's not to me when I have a town read on him in each game. The point is what

I

think of him.

It is to everyone here because we have no idea what your alignment is in those games. Therefore, whether you have town reads on someone in another game or not is a useless point to bring up. And your town reads in

other

games have no place in

this

game.

No, but it means I have a meta read on him. All that matters is how I read him, therefore I can say confidently I believe he is town, regardless of anything else.

[Hikari Link]

im vka morobn zde continues misrep watch it big post later

Is this English!?

[Hikari Link]

im vka morobn zde continues misrep watch it big post later

Is this English!?

Zde is somebody's name. That's why it looks problematic.

What's a vka morobn?

[Hikari Link]

im vka morobn zde continues misrep watch it big post later

Is this English!?

Zde is somebody's name. That's why it looks problematic.

What's a vka morobn?

I think he meant "V/LA moron".

That's kind of what I thought it might mean. But I figured since he's clearly online, his V/LA is moot and he'd be rather unjustified in calling someone a moron for that.

[Hikari Link]

ok, heres the deal. you guys seem to have your mind made up, and being day 1, the odds of me not being swayed by your opinions through this reread, i'm just going to cut to the chase with the vote(timeeater). here's what i want:

you post a question. be specififc, no "what do you think of the game"(its 13 pages, you fuckers have been busy, if i'm here i'll catch up proper tomorrow) type questions. include post numbers and or page references. i would rather not sift through the dh meltdown.

timeeater: claim now.

nobody hammer before a claim. nobody hammer until questions are posted for me and others are satisfied. i will place my ethereal vote on timeeater... NOW.

You are aware you didn't actually vote, right? Also, don't vote. You say don't hammer, but Mafia can and will self-hammer if they can't be saved and if it is a detriment to the town to end the day. I don't really like the idea of you coming in and just deciding that Timeater is a foregone conclusion either. My question is "go read the fucking thread!" Yes, that's not a question, but nonetheless. Read the thread, post your reads and why, and then make an informed vote rather than just bandwagoning.

[Hikari Link]

ok, heres the deal. you guys seem to have your mind made up, and being day 1, the odds of me not being swayed by your opinions through this reread, i'm just going to cut to the chase with the vote(timeeater). here's what i want:

you post a question. be specififc, no "what do you think of the game"(its 13 pages, you fuckers have been busy, if i'm here i'll catch up proper tomorrow) type questions. include post numbers and or page references. i would rather not sift through the dh meltdown.

timeeater: claim now.

nobody hammer before a claim. nobody hammer until questions are posted for me and others are satisfied. i will place my ethereal vote on timeeater... NOW.

You are aware you didn't actually vote, right? Also, don't vote. You say don't hammer, but Mafia can and will self-hammer if they can't be saved and if it is a detriment to the town to end the day.

What's the point of this?

He said he was going to vote. I didn't want him realizing he hadn't voted and then putting a vote down.

[Hikari Link]

i didn't vote on purpose. L-1 puts the day in danger of ending. consider my vote there, however, and i am also asking for a claim. none of you posed any questions. if you are not going to do that, then don't expect me to give you what you want. i refuse to read the flame war until(or unless) it becomes relevant. you guys rattled off 13 pages in a small amount of time. i had a wedding all day yesterday and work the day before. i work tomorrow and am camping all weekend(oh yeah...)

mod: v/la aug 19-22

if you want my input on something specific, just point it out and ask a question. preferably in a format such as this:

1) hey dj, how do you feel about post 67?

2) dj, on page 3, x voted y and then quickly unvoted. what do you think of that?

there is nothing scummy about asking players to help me in expiditing my reads. day 1 has no frame of reference(or little), so being less active is not scummy provided players produce helpful posts and analysis later on. i am willing to help now, and i am willing to lend my vote to the popular lynch. a claim on page 13 is not unheard of, scummy, or even close to non-sensical.

FoS: Ankamius 308

noone is suggesting we end the day, the fact that timeeater is at L-2 with others willing to vote him does point to the fact that we have made our mind up, so not only is your post flinging shit to see if it sticks by calling my post "scummy", it is also contradictory in its very nature.

I have no questions because I believe the most helpful thing you can do is just read the shit yourself. Yes, you may be busy, but that just means you'll have to do it a little bit at a time.
13 pages really isn't that many and by skipping things, you can miss out on vital information. You may even find things that others have missed.

[Hikari Link]

I have no questions because I believe the most helpful thing you can do is just read the shit yourself.

i have explained why my opinion is different than yours. if you don't want to listen, then there is not much i can do to help you.

Yes, you may be busy, but that just means you'll have to do it a little bit at a time.

i don't believe that would be helpful, i also have already explained that i do not want to read the flame war at this time. i'd rather those of you who are paying attention, simply pose questions which can help direct my focus. if not, then consider my catch-up post as being "blah blah blah, vote: timeeater."

13 pages really isn't that many and by skipping things, you can miss out on vital information. You may even find things that others have missed.

its quite a lot imo. and i disagree. not all info in a thread is necessarily relevant. i have played plenty of games where i did not read and simply used gut and/or VCA to scumhunt. i find that my percentage of wins is similar regardless of the amount of effort i put in as either alignment. in regards to finding things others may have missed, i would prefer to do thatr when there is some frame of reference(i.e. flip(s)).

in short, at this time you are simply being confrontational, i have clearly spelled out what i want from you, explained why i want to do things in this manner, and am willing to play and help the game move forward. ball is in your court. next time you serve it back this way, please attach more specific requests that allow me to provide analysis in the manner in which i have repeatedly stated in which i am comfortable. K?

Yeah, I've got nothing for you if you're too lazy to play the game your own damn self. Do whatever the fuck you want. Without your reads, you're useless to me. I can't see your thought process, I can't see who you suspect, and I can't analyze you.

[Hikari Link]

Tick, why are you witholding your vote? Are you not aware that
1) the vote is the town's strongest and only weapon, so we should use it (even if you don't think the player is scummy a little pressure can do wonders)
2) we are considerably far into the game and you should be able to have a read worthy of a vote
3) witholding votes is commonly seen in scum playing it safe or not wanting to be caught by VCA

This is my ISO from a previous game (it's not over yet, but I died N1)

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Some dude called me out on witholding my vote there too (ISO 10)

I'll tell you what I told him: I save my votes till I'm 100% sure somebody's scum.

I want to say that even though you are dead, you still technically aren't allowed to discuss ongoing games in this manner. Could be wrong.

[Hikari Link]

I'll tell you what I told him: I save my votes till I'm 100% sure somebody's scum.

You've barely commented on any of your suspicions besides Timeater. In a game this size, I don't see it as very likely that someone would only have a single scumread in a little over 15 pages.

@don_johnson: I based my response on what you said and the way it was structured.

clearly states that i do not want the day to end. otherwise i would have wrote something like: "someobody hammer this fucknmut so we can end the day."

I must have worded my response poorly then. I meant that you were planning to end the day because you hinted in your original post against Timeater that you would be fine with a hammer once he claimed and you were done answering questions.

@Hikari Link: You haven't mentioned anything about Timeater in a while: Do you still think he's scum?

I haven't mentioned anything of relevance for a while. I'm trying to take a break from heavy research today, cause I'm sort of tired today. Expect a legitimate post tomorrow when I wake up. I honestly didn't even read the part of this post that wasn't directed toward me.

[Hikari Link]

I haven't mentioned anything of relevance for a while. I'm trying to take a break from heavy research today, cause I'm sort of tired today. Expect a legitimate post tomorrow when I wake up.

I honestly didn't even read the part of this post that wasn't directed toward me.

It's not of immediate consequence.

Oh, good. Well, I'm getting off tonight. I really hope shit doesn't blow up tonight, cause I'm tired and I doubt why stamina will be much higher tomorrow.

[Hikari Link]

UNVOTE: Timeater
I don't like the L-1 and I'm a little disappointed that people let it hang around as long as it did. Going through my catach up now and I'll vote once I've looked at everything.

[Hikari Link]

nintendoaddict: or heck, maybe the rage quit was scummy in some way and was relevant to the case?
...
you later claim you were just tired...but i dunno.

Yes, the quitting part made me think even more that DH was acting scummy. I've seen townDH under fire before, and I don't recall him ever getting so mad as to quit. That makes me doubt he was townDH here.

But the thing is, unless you've seen replace out as scum, that doesn't really say anything. He could've been in a bad mood, it could have been worse this time than it was in the past, etc. There are any number of reasons for him to get pissed and replace out, but I can't really see a scum motivation. He could just as easily try to get Timeater mislynched or night-killed. One things pretty certain though, I think we can assume they aren't scum together, cause I highly doubt they would have gone at each others throats like that if they knew they were partners.

scum not gonna let go of me

was thinking about emp, he's screwing up my reads. so is link's ghosting

Yeah, I already explained that, so I've got nothing else to say for myself. Not sure about Empking though.

tick is still scummy so i'll throw my vote back to him.

vote: tick

dj is town
emp+link=at least one scum 100%

If it's 100% that

at least

one of us is scum, then you really should put a vote there. It's 50/50, right?

So let's break down the way I see things right now.

Suspicions

Empking: He's really saying very little and i don't like it one bit, but it really does look like his meta, so it makes it really hard to read him. He may become a potential candidate, but I think it's going to be a little while before I can make a decision on him either way.

The Tick: Vote holding and lack of reads puts him on my list, but again, this looks like his meta, so it's kind of hard to tell. I will have to continue to observe him over time, but if he doesn't start at least posting some reads, then can rest easy with a lynch of him.

don_johnson: I'll give him until tomorrow, just because he is allegedly going to read the thread and post real content. Still gonna be on my list though.

Timeater: Honestly, still seems like a pretty good choice to me. He's gotten a bit townier, but I could still see him as scum and would support his lynch.

I'll give Timeater an opportunity to respond and everyone else a chance to present a better case, but I'm willing to lynch him if nothing conclusive appears in the next 24 hours. Thoughts from others on this?

[Hikari Link]

Apparently I only posted about half of my post. Here's the other half. I think it comes first.

claim: vt

I'll be straight up. I've been scummy as fuck this game. I've said a lot of dumb shit. About Demon - because of the way he construed his arguments, the way he put together his cases - I felt they lacked any sort of empiricism, utterly rooted in passion, and ultimately holding up a sort of "I'm right-your-wrong-no-matter-what" style of logic. He was playing like a medieval inquisitor who wants his witch burned no matter the cost, no matter if he's wrong or right. Evidence of this could be gleaned from one of his first posts, where he says "Town acts like X all the time, Scum acts like Y all the time". I dont normally have split-second changes of heart, but since I did, and I rolled with it - I faced the consequences. My unvoting of demon was strange and should have been questioned. I am not 100% he isn't scum. I'd say I'm 51%.

So that means after all that, the best you have is essentially a null read on him? Cause you know 51% is only about half, right? That's generally null. Just saying, maybe use better percentages in the future? Nitpicking aside, I could see this.

I dont like the way Zdenek has chainsawed for Demon. He's pretty much done it all game. I feel that either Demon is town and Zdenek is scum

OR

they are both scum. Zdenek was too quick to agree to my post about him being linked with Demon. He held on to it and used it greedily.

He mentioed it like twice. And considering you apparently thought DH/Ankamius was town at the time, due to unvoting him, that was a perfectly legitimate argument. If you thought DH was town and thought that his alignment was linked to Zdenek, then what would that make Zdenek?

The way he hopped from me to link then back to me again with the reasoning of a turnip. Trying to mollify Demon with an apology is apparently "the story of blathering scum". His vig was transparent as fuck. If wanted to gambit to get more information, it should NOT have been on Maruchan. I was his number #1 suspect, remember? He tried to justify it with "oh Timeater isn't RESPONDING HE MUST BE SCUM" - what a retarded line of reasoning. Another example of him ammunition-gathering instead of posting with real consequence.

Not too sure about this argument, but I could see the Maruchan pick as a way to find out if a minor scum read would crack if he thought he was dying.

Vote: Zdenek

A LIST!

1. Zdenek- scum
2. Mysterio - null
3. don_johnson - scummy
4. Hellhound1 - null
6. Hikari Link - town
7. hahonryuu - obvtown
8. nintendoaddict1 - scummy
9. Empking - null
10. Twistedspoon - obvtown
11. The Tick - scum
12. Maruchan - town
13. Ankamius - town...

I was trying to figure out what I don't like about this list. Then it hit me, no real explanations, granted, we've seen allusions to some of the suspicions here or there, but those things can change over time as new content is added. I want an updated list with justifications of these reads, not just saying you read them that way. Especially the "obvtown" reads. If they re so obvious, then you must have justification up the ass. I'm not even saying I don't agree with some or all of these, but that's all the more reason you need to justify that shit. Scum can read the flow of the game and composite a list that they think the town will like.

I wasn't saying I got something against vt claims, just that one in particular (because of the meta, he said didn't have time for TS, and just quoted me in his crybaby style. + Next post the misrep). I gotta be honest, I was REALLY tempted to say something like TRACKER or fakeclaim cop just to stick it to this game. But I knew that if I did that I'd only be lynchbait down the line. I WISH I had a PR this game.

I don't really like this statement. Fakeclaiming is super anti-town. Especially if you had been counter-claimed. But you don't even note that, you just say you were worrying about being lynch bait.

speaking of zdenek's vig thing...perhaps no one got to it in my wall < come on guys, dont tell me i did all that for nothing> but AM curious as to what the rest of you think on my thoughts of it being unnecessarily risky. what if a PR was a target? if the PR claimed because they thought they were going to die then he exposed a PR to the mafia and we gain nothing from it really. even with how it turned out, at best we ended up gaining/losing nothing. maybe there is something I missed so, I ask again, what others think about the plan? am I just crazy/overly cautious/reading too much into it? or am I right?

I do agree it was a bit over-kill (not just cuz I was the one that thought I was dead. -.-), but I think it would have been a terribly unlikely move for scum to do. Why play a gambit to FIND scum, when you are scum so you know THEY aren't, and bring unwanted attention to yourself. So as much as I dislike him for (pretending to) killing me, I don't find it as in any way shape or form scum-motivated.

As hahonryuu pointed out here, it could have been a scum ploy to out a PR. Not saying hat was the motivation, but remember that scum would know you aren't scum, so they aren't trying to find scum. Overall, I'm calling it a null tell.

Just curious, how does this work "Pretend my vote is on timeater as I wait for him to claim, but wait I'm voting Maruchan."

it works just how it sounds.

ryu: its nothing personal. everyone plays differently. i have several different styles i employ and i choose which one depending on the game, playerlist, my availalble time, etc. unfortunately, you have drawn "lackidaisical" dj. though this may upset you, you should(by virtue of my record) realize that i am a good player and should thusly be more inclined to work with me than against me. if you are town, then you should be able to trip lackidaisicalscumdj up easier with questions and such. with lackidaisicaltowndj, my answers to your questions should be able to help you solidify your own reads. so whatevz. it is what it is.

Not a shot at you, but technically based on your record alone, you are a mediocre town player and a really good scum player, so that's not a great deal of comfort...

Your post made it sound incredibly conclusive that you plan to end the day.

patently false. my post did not contain an actual vote, which means that everything i did still left timeeater in the same position he was in before i posted. i also clearly asked for more input and explicitly requested that noone hammer. you seem to like the word "incredibly". if you continue to be this "incredibly" ridiculous, i will vote you. in fact,

unvote, vote ankamius

see, i didn't even have to do all that reading and i have found you guys your first scum.(hint: both maruchan and timeeater are likely town at this point.)

your welcome.

Uh, I'm really not inclined to agree with this, especially with how DH was behaving pre-replacement, so... thanks? Also, you knd of did sound like that, so I'm not seeing the argument.

[Hikari Link]

VOTE COUNT 4:
Zdenek -
Mysterio -
Don_johnson - Nintendoaddict,
Hellhound -
Timeater - Link, Zdenek, Hellhound, Maruchan, Ankamius, Empking
Link (sorry) -
Hahonryuu -
Nintendoaddict -
Empking - Hahonryuu
Twistedspoon -
The Tick -
Maruchan - Tspoon,
Ankamius - Don_johnson

Not Voting - Mysterio, The Tick, Timeater

Seven votes required for the lynch.

Day 1 ends 23:57 4th of september GMT

No more magikarp pictures, please

Woh something happened here. Matt isn't that close to lynch, and alot of votes were on hiplop

Firstly, who the hell is Matt and Hiplop? There's noone (from what i understand) called the former and the latter on this mafia game. Also, i have rechecked the whole Timeater (assuming that Timeater might possibly be called Matt) votes (on him) and they're correct. I think you have got the wrong game...

I'm an idiot ignore me. I mixed this game up with the one right next to it because they started at the same time, have a few of the same players, are about the same length, and I was tired at 4 in the morn

But that still doesn't explain what the hell happened there. matt and hiplop aren't even on that list.

[Hikari Link]

also something that recently came to mind <maybe im thinking about it too much>, what if they are both scum and they planned on doing that so maru could "claim" and have us all believe he's town because he claimed town under pressure of death, thus we auto assume town <to an extent at least>...but problem being that, for me at least, it worked and I don't wanna lynch maru. but that's nothing but an after thought atm with so little to go on..

long story short its good that at least I'm not the only one questioning the Vig. on some level at least. same with empkings lack of doing...anything. openly at least. good to know my brain isn't completely useless in a game of mafia.

Impossible. He may have planned to do it as scum or town for whatever reason, I don't really care, but collaboration between the two of us is impossible.

There was no N0, scum-talk phase of this game. The thread opened at 5:20, we all received role PMs between 5:20 and 5:45, and at 5:45 he opened confirmation, in-thread. There would have been no time for the scum to plan anything together pre-game, no matter who you suspect the scum-team of being.

Quicktopic could have been open prior to PMs, he could have sent scum PMs first, and discussion might have been open during in-thread confirmation since it was the confirmation phase. If what you ssay is true, I count about 37 minutes that could have contained discussion.

[Hikari Link]

also something that recently came to mind <maybe im thinking about it too much>, what if they are both scum and they planned on doing that so maru could "claim" and have us all believe he's town because he claimed town under pressure of death, thus we auto assume town <to an extent at least>...but problem being that, for me at least, it worked and I don't wanna lynch maru. but that's nothing but an after thought atm with so little to go on..

long story short its good that at least I'm not the only one questioning the Vig. on some level at least. same with empkings lack of doing...anything. openly at least. good to know my brain isn't completely useless in a game of mafia.

Impossible. He may have planned to do it as scum or town for whatever reason, I don't really care, but collaboration between the two of us is impossible.

There was no N0, scum-talk phase of this game. The thread opened at 5:20, we all received role PMs between 5:20 and 5:45, and at 5:45 he opened confirmation, in-thread. There would have been no time for the scum to plan anything together pre-game, no matter who you suspect the scum-team of being.

Quicktopic could have been open prior to PMs, he could have sent scum PMs first, and discussion might have been open during in-thread confirmation since it was the confirmation phase. If what you say is true, I count about 37 minutes that could have contained discussion.

Lets not play outguess the mod m'kay?

That's you, not me. I'm not trying to outguess anyone. I'm stating all of the possibilities. You are not.

The quicktopic COULD have been made before the game totally correct. But guess what, scum get the quicktopic link, in their role PMs. Role PMs (for me at least, maybe yours is different. Since you say you think the QT was already opened when game started, maybe you got a role PM an hour before the game started so you could see the QT?) were sent out AFTER the game started.

Considering the game didn't start until 5:57 and PMs were being sent around at least 30 minutes before the game started by your own admission, that's time that they could have talked.

IE: even if QT was made before game started, scum didn't know about it till after game started.

In what world is 5:57 before 5:30?

The Day officially started at 5:57. I got my role PM at about 5:30 ish. So yes, scum could have talked for 27 minutes. Which I find is TOTALLY long enough for them to come up with an elaborate day-vig the scum-partner scheme, WHEN THEY COULDN'T EVEN GUARANTEE THE SCUM PARTNER WAS GOING TO LOOK SCUMMY.

It never had to be aimed at a specific partner.

I mean lets start being realistic guys? Stop being paranoid (Link), and be realistic.

I'm not being paranoid, I'm just looking at all possibilities. Denying them is dumb. I'm not even accusing anyone, I'm simply stating that you saying that it is impossible that Mafia talked before the game is an outright fallacy.

[Hikari Link]

Not gonna happen, Regfan. Sorry, that's just how I operate and I'm not stopping.

[Hikari Link]

Fully caught up now. Ignore the question directed at Hahoryuu in my previous post, it was answered when I continued reading. Getting a much better feeling from that slot as well now, her reasoning behind her reads and her pararnoid behind Zdenek potentially gambiting as scum read town.

hahonryuu is a guy.

The Ticks reasoning behind his vote on Time is also incredibly bad and furthers the strong scum-read I had on him earlier. Disjoininted stream of conciousness when typing on a Wii certaintly isn't a scum-tell, especially when it was highly evident that Time was having difficulty typing properly on it.

The Tick hasn't voted all game...

Overall reads having completed reading through this game are:

Town:

Ankamius, Timeater, Maruchan, Zdenek, Hahonryuu (Weaker), Don (Weaker).

Null:

Empking, Link.

Scum:

The Tick, Nintendo (Weaker), Twistedspoon (Weaker), Hellhound (Weaker).

Can we get explanations for these, please? You explained some, but all would be nice.

Right now the only person I'm comfortable voting is Tick, his ISO reads as him attempting to stay as neutral as possible and making as few enemies as he can while trying to glide through the day, his change of read and reasoning behind it on Timeeater is awful.

Vote: The Tick

Perhaps you could state what exactly was wrong with the reasoning?

[Hikari Link]

@ Link -

Tick has stated suspicion of Time, whether he has voted him or not is meaningless because although he hasn't voted him Time he has suggested that others should nor has he suggested that pressure should be placed elsewhere either by voting or interrogating alternate players. What was wrong with his reasoning was that it was "the stream of consciousness posts from his Wii. They were so random and disjointed, they looked like spam to me", stream of consciousness of posting on a Wii when it's clear he's having issues working out how to use it properly isn't an alignment related tell and attempting to state that it is reads as using terribad logic to justify unlawful suspicion.

Which reads in particular do you want explained? I'm highly exhausted so I don't have the energy to pump them all out now but if there's a specific few that you're interested on I would be more than willing to go into them.

No, there's no specific ones, I just like to make sure reads are justified. It's harder for scum to justify their reads, because they already know who is innocent and guilty. Feel free to answer tomorrow or the next day if you are tired.

[Hikari Link]

I was keeping my vote on X for his scuminess, not for his pro-townness. the scumiess outweighs the small townieness. Even now maru knowing that the scum didn't get to use their QT in post #413 is incredibly scummy and I don't see how everyone missed it

I didn't miss it. It is something that made me wonder, but I think he's town, so it just seemed like him being wrong more than being scummy. And I know from experience from this game that assuming you know something is not the same as knowing it.

i find overclarification to be scummy

Well then you'll probably be finding me pretty scummy. I clarify the shit out of things, because I llke to make it clear what the hell I'm doing.

Hikari Link:

Yeah, this is where I have problems and believe I'll continue to have problems. Your play style and wall posting is highly mechanical and often leads towards a lot of your posts being completely nonalignment related making this a hard read to attain. Overall I go back and forth between weak town and weak scum so null.

That's just how I play. Check my completed game, it'll likely read exactly the same as it does here.

Hikari (fwhahaha)

Die in a fucking hole.

also something that recently came to mind <maybe im thinking about it too much>, what if they are both scum and they planned on doing that so maru could "claim" and have us all believe he's town because he claimed town under pressure of death, thus we auto assume town <to an extent at least>...but problem being that, for me at least, it worked and I don't wanna lynch maru. but that's nothing but an after thought atm with so little to go on..

long story short its good that at least I'm not the only one questioning the Vig. on some level at least. same with empkings lack of doing...anything. openly at least. good to know my brain isn't completely useless in a game of mafia.

Impossible. He may have planned to do it as scum or town for whatever reason, I don't really care, but collaboration between the two of us is impossible.

There was no N0, scum-talk phase of this game. The thread opened at 5:20, we all received role PMs between 5:20 and 5:45, and at 5:45 he opened confirmation, in-thread. There would have been no time for the scum to plan anything together pre-game, no matter who you suspect the scum-team of being.

Quicktopic could have been open prior to PMs, he could have sent scum PMs first, and discussion might have been open during in-thread confirmation since it was the confirmation phase. If what you say is true, I count about 37 minutes that could have contained discussion.

Lets not play outguess the mod m'kay? The quicktopic COULD have been made before the game totally correct. But guess what, scum get the quicktopic link, in their role PMs. Role PMs (for me at least, maybe yours is different. Since you say you think the QT was already opened when game started, maybe you got a role PM an hour before the game started so you could see the QT?) were sent out AFTER the game started. IE: even if QT was made before game started, scum didn't know about it till after game started.

The Day officially started at 5:57. I got my role PM at about 5:30 ish. So yes, scum could have talked for 27 minutes. Which I find is TOTALLY long enough for them to come up with an elaborate day-vig the scum-partner scheme, WHEN THEY COULDN'T EVEN GUARANTEE THE SCUM PARTNER WAS GOING TO LOOK SCUMMY.

I mean lets start being realistic guys? Stop being paranoid (Link), and be realistic.

i think this is a really important sequence of posts and should be talked about more

Then talk about it more. But I'm not seeing much there.

@ Twistedspoon -

The major point against you is your loltunnel on Maruchan which is making even less sense now since he's apparently your wild-card read rather than a strong scum read. I have to admit though with the exception of your wild card reads and a slightly higher town-read on Link your reads are almost identical to mine. Looking forward to hearing your reasoning behind them very much though.

@ Timeater -

I'm not seeing how those string of posts need to be talked about at all, they're mostly irrelevant and involve Maruchan ruling out something that is highly unlikely to have occured while Link stats it's still possible whether likely or not.

@ Link -

If you don't mind can you state your current reads as well because reading through your ISO I'm struggling to piece together where your head is currently at.

Extremely sorry, but you'll have to settle for a vote from me for now. I'm going to be gone until at least tomorrow afternoon because some friends and I are going to have a Halo marathon and I'm leaving in the next few hours for that. Considering it always takes me a couple hours to reread everything and another hour or two to post, I simply don't have the time right now. I will say that Timeater is starting to look increasingly more town, which leaves The Tick as my prime suspect.
VOTE: The Tick
I'm expecting this marathon to leave me tired, so don't expect anything substantial until at least tomorrow night, but depending on my schedule, possibly as late as Monday. I'll still be able to respond to anything directed at me from Saturday until Monday, I just may not be make any posts that require several hours of free time.

[Hikari Link]

I'm here, trying to formulate whats brewing in my mind into coherency. The Link thing is not an easy sell.

That's probably because you are wrong and shoehorning me into a scum role to fit your preconceived notions about me is hard to do when my actions are town-motivated.

I'll post my catch-up to the events so far soon. Expect a full reads list within the next few days too. I'd just do it now, but I haven't been in the mood to do an extreme amount of reading in the last few days and that trend continues today. Still, I made a promise to Regfan and dead or not, I intend to keep it.

[Hikari Link]

just back from camping. good job on the lynch. question for everyone:

do we want a vig claim(if that's the case)?

i say yes. will discuss reasons later, but would like everyone to answer. i'll need time to catch up and reread and such, but this should start us off.

I never support unnecessary claims. And as TS asked, could we get that list from you?

Your aggressiveness is good.

What was this promise and where was it made?

It was in my last post before the day ended. Regfan asked for my current reads and I stated that I couldn't oblige because I didn't have the time to read through everyone before I left for about 24 hours. And I came back to find that the day had ended. As I general rule, I don't make reads during the night for several reasons. 1. I could die and end up wasting time. 2. Night deaths can greatly affect those reads, as newly confirmed roles can help cement the meanings of certain posts. 3. Night is a time for me to take a bit of a breather and/or focus on other games more intensely.

I'm both pleased and disappointed to see that almost everything that's happened so far today is some excellent content with a lot of thought. Pleased because it gives me a lot to help strengthen and better define my reads and disappointed because it means that I have almost nothing to comment on offhandedly in this catch-up. Almost everything is just fodder for my reads and requires no comment. So unless someone has any questions for me, I imagine you can expect my detailed reread post tomorrow or the next day. Apologies for the wait.

[Hikari Link]

HIKARI READING THE THREAD

NOT POSTING

SCUM NOT POSTING BECAUSE HE DOESNT HAVE TO, BETTER TO LURK IN THIS SITUATION AND HE KNOWS IT

LYNCH THIS SUCKER

1. Don't call me Hikari, bro. 2. Reading on my phone. Thanks to your bullshit, I'm actually gonna have to post tonight instead of taking a break.

[Hikari Link]

Link isn't the type of player to make blatant mistakes as scum. He's too good. He's too slippery. Slippery I think is the best way to describe him. Unlike TS, who is obvtown to the umpth degree, Link has this faintly calculated air about him that makes him hard to pin down and hard to label. This quality forged my initial suspicions of him. When I was going back and looking at the way Tick was playing, I wanted to try to understand Tick - as a player. That is how my play is evolving. I look at how a player IS. I take in all their little eccentricities as data then use that data to look for fakeness. And fakeness isn't always a scumtell - sometimes I've been fake as town. Knowing how skilled a player is helpful for looking for this.

Link exhibits a very skilled style - some players have even complimented him about it. But that skilled air doesn't seem to jive with legit scumhunting or legit towniness. Its feels fake to me for several reasons (not going to post a walls as I fell walls are anti-town)

next post!

I'd say I'm a fairly calculated player, but I don't know that you can accuse me of being fake. Just because I think about what I say before I say it doesn't mean anything. I'm deliberate in my actions because I don't wish to create unnecessary misunderstandings. When misunderstandings do arise, I'm quick to correct them so that it is clear to everyone what the score is. And walls most certainly are not anti-town, sir. They aren't inherently pro-town either, but there is nothing about them indicative of scum activity. It's simply a players chosen style of writing.

When I asked Tick what he felt about Link, he says two things: That he has a good head on his shoulders and his feelings are null. He is reluctant to give me a read either way; which I take as some evidence of Tick being a little torn on what to do. Tick wasn't the most experienced scum, and often I got the vibe from him that he should just avoid sticky situations without comitting, like how he did in most of his posts.
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3347546

But he didn't give reads on anybody. What is your fucking point?

When Link attacked me for my rage-out escapades (which was pretty predatory but ultimately understandable - again, Link is a slippery fellow) Tick butts into the conversation, trying to be useful but ultimately saying nothing of consequence (in my opinion). He defends me and says a real goon would have kept tunneling, consequences be damned. The fact that he felt the need to quote link and DEFEND ME says to me he was possibly breadcrumbing if his buddy died. Its a bit of a stretch but its what I'm feeling on that post.
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3349863

I'm not even sure what you are saying happened here.

When Zdenek attacks Link, Tick defends him because I was on Zdenek. He probably felt I was most likely to die, so he could set up Zdenek for tomorrow. Normally scum dont defend each other, but again Tick wasn't the most advanced scum around.
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3356076

There's absolutely no bearing to this argument. It's entirely speculation and conjecture.

As I said - I dont like the people who joined the wagon late. Link was one of them.

Considering he was my chief sspect at the time, since you were looking town, that's hardly a point against me. Also, I wanted to put my vote somewhere before I was gone for a day. How was I even supposed to know he'd be lynched? What kind of Day 1 ends that quickly? Why would I even leave my vote unattended on my scum partner with a large waagon before going off for a day? That shit doesn't even make sense.

About my "quote wall implication post" - That post generated a good bit of speculation and wifom. The thing I did not like about it was Link's tiny little role, and I was hoping someone else would pick up on it. He is more than willing to speculate on the goings on of scum:

Quicktopic could have been open prior to PMs, he could have sent scum PMs first, and discussion might have been open during in-thread confirmation since it was the confirmation phase. If what you say is true, I count about 37 minutes that could have contained discussion.

That sort of paranoia, while entirely subtle and slippery (which is Link's MO) is scummy.

How is paranoia scummy? And how is it paranoia? It's a statement of a real possibility that could have occurred. And how is it subtle or slippery? And don't act like you know what my MO is.

I

urge

you guys to lynch Link and kill him before the game progresses much further, because he's just going to get harder and harder to kill.

I don't really see how that's a problem. If there's no reason to kill me, then it probably means I'm town. Just looking at it statistically, I'm far more likely town than scum. If my actions are such that would seem to point to me being town and the odds are in favor of me being town, then you know what that means? I'm probably town.

HELLHOUND? GET OUT OF HERE WITH THAT WEAK SHIT

HIKARI READING THE THREAD

NOT POSTING

SCUM NOT POSTING BECAUSE HE DOESNT HAVE TO, BETTER TO LURK IN THIS SITUATION AND HE KNOWS IT

LYNCH THIS SUCKER

1. Don't call me Hikari, bro. 2. Reading on my phone. Thanks to your bullshit, I'm actually gonna have to post tonight instead of taking a break.

Hey,

BRO

Whats it like to be tunneled by a real-life psychic? YOU SCARED? ID BE.

IM LIKE MEWTWO BUT BETTER

LYNCH HIKARI ALREADY

Well, for starters, thanks for being a dick. Based on how you were towards DH, I imagine that's just how you operate. So aside from this looking like little more than a drunken tirade, I really can't figure you out. You seem more of a stupid dick than scummy. Your motivations seem town, they're just dumb.I see no reason to take you seriously at this point, but maybe that's your goal? Appear so blatantly stupid that nobody would suspect you as scum (see, I can speculate too) and cruise to victory. What really interests me is that you so willingly accepted a lynch on you when I flip town. I'm not sure if that's dumb town motivation not realizing that two town lynches back to back helps nobody or scum motivation in that you think you can talk your way out of it. Considering how bad you are with words and people, I'm really more inclined to believe the former though. Long story short, you aren't worth the towns time to lynch, but you'll add nothing of value to the game if you stay alive.

Now I'm tired from a long day of video games, so I'm going to sleep. If I feel like it, I'll get to work on those reads tomorrow, otherwise expect them Wednesday. If anything else is addressed in my general direction, I'll likely respond, as I lie to keep abreast of the situation to some extent, even if I'm not reading thoroughly.

[Hikari Link]

1) fine, but it makes my vote for comfortable. I think you should care about that
2) fine, lie about your reads, but don't be surprised when i call you out on them
3) ... I don't want to argue about zdnek. He's town but he's not in danger now
4) 6?
5) i was at the start of the day and am still

1) Not really.
2) I saw his name at the bottom, and for quite a while after i posted, obviously never bothered to respond.
3) k
5)You unvoted. Why are we even arguing over the meaning of OMGUS? You're worse then my ex.

2. That's cause I'm doing my reads right now and there really seemed like no reason to respond when your case against me was so blatantly stupid. I already said what I had to about Timeater's case against me and you sheeping it just makes you look bad, which I'll cover in my reads. Have patience, sir. My posts tend to take hours if they aren't just a quick response like this.

[Hikari Link]

Meh, i was hoping thats what you'd think, then go on a rage about it, then i could judge your response in line with what timeater has to say.

Well if you read Timeater's analysis of me, you'd see that I'm more calculated than that. It takes a bit more than that to throw me into a rage. Right now the only thing I'm thinking is how much I wish I were playing Rune Factory right now.

[Hikari Link]

lolol @ anyone remotely think im scum

Rune Factory: Frontier for the Wii?

Vote: hellhound

good work TS, barnacling

Yes, Rune Factory: Fronteir. That's what I was doing yesterday when you so rudely interrupted me to make wild accusations. I'm trying to get Selphy to marry me right now and I've got a date with her coming up.

Back on the topic at hand, why the switch from me to hellhound? You seemed so sure.

[Hikari Link]

EBWODP: You seemed so sure of me.

[Hikari Link]

really want to play that game. I also want to try little king's story.

I am still sure but obviously I've alienated myself on the matter so I'm letting it go for the moment.

Oh. And here I was hoping you had come to your senses. Don't worry, I'm sure you'll contrive more reasons to call me scum later and I'm sure that once again, they will bear no fruit. Not to make you feel any worse, but to make matters worse, scum have a tendency to keep me alive the stronger the general town read gets on me. I'd call it a combination of fear of a Doctor and hoping that they can inject the town with paranoia. And I won't even be surprised if you call this scum WIFOM trying to establish a legitimate reason for me to not get killed all the way until the end. I don't really care if I fuel your suspicion, because I'm convinced at this point that nothing I say will change it. Just giving you some fair warning.

[Hikari Link]

TS will probably die tonight (take that bit of wifom, scum)

you do realise now you've said that it's far less likely

@Link: why aren't you voting. Like anyone at all. Don't turn into the Tick :0

Are you aware that I'm working on a very long post? Perhaps you aren't. Perhaps I didn't make that clear. I'm working on a very long post. Not as much in terms of length as the effort put into it and the amount of time I'm sidetracked.

[Hikari Link]

You dare warn me?

Of course. It's how I operate.

I'm not contriving anything, I could easily go into why your post against mine case is weak, but I'm not going to at the moment.

You really should. If you think I'm scum, it's your duty as town to try to convince others of that, right? And it's contriving when you make a scum case against town when there is little to no actual evidence there and it's just you pointing out vague "connections" and claiming a gut feeling.

Your attempts at character assassination will not work. I'll just punch you in your virtual nose when push comes to shove. Lovingly of course.

Nobody is attempting to assassinate your character.

The fact that you are building yourself up and saying scum like to keep you around only adds fuel to the burning pyre that is my gut read on you.

It's a true story though, so whatever. Like I said, anything I say at this point is going to add to your read on me.

Covering your bases constantly is not pro-town.

It's how I operate. Always have. No reason to create misunderstandings.

[Hikari Link]

lolol @ anyone remotely think im scum

Rune Factory: Frontier for the Wii?

Vote: hellhound

good work TS, barnacling

barnacling? you might have to explain this term to me

It means I am willing to trust your judgment and "follow better poster" so to speak. A great and noble sea turtle will still have barnacles; they are apart of him. I am your barnacle sweety :3

mode switch

I AM NOW 100% SURE LINK IS TOWN

HEY NINTENDO WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT

What just happened...?

[Hikari Link]

Maru what do you think of Hellhound and would you be willing to get on with TS and I?

@Link

Genius happened.

Could you explain? A 100% scum read should not change to a 100% town read so quickly. I need to see what your thought process here was.

[Hikari Link]

Use your noggin. You're a smart boy. But keep it to yourself, for now.

Wait for Zdenek & Nintendo to post.

I'm not going to keep it to myself if it's the reason I think it is. Because what I think it is is that you want to get me night killed by Mafia because I'm a less viable target for paranoia mongering if there's nobody paranoid about me.

[Hikari Link]

Got a few free hours right now, so I might as well get this out of the way.

Ankamius

: Right off the bat I've already got a town read on him because of DH ragequitting read as pissed town to me. Then he comes out of the gate with just a bunch of honest scumhunting and good analysis.

don_johnson

: I didn't really like his start, but he has more or less delivered today. He actually went back and read the thread like he promised and he's showing extreme signs of scumhunting. He's a bit sure that he's caught scum in Timeater and Maruchan, but in my experience, that isn't necessarily scummy. I've seen plenty of town sure that they've caught scum and shouting it to the heavens. Confidence is a key part of charisma and it can be a great tool to get a wagon going. Though I honestly don't agree with his Timeater read and I think his Maruchan case might be reaching a little. But I do agree that Maruchan's coming off as a bit scummy. Worth keeping an eye on Maruchan, but scummy town really just looks like his meta. My read on dj is kinda null right now. Not sure if his suspicions are genuine or an attempt at a mislynch.

hahonryuu

: He doesn't post very often, but what he does post feels town. He questions things that he thinks are off, but he's not quick top point fingers. This is what I feel is exemplary new town. That's not to say that his play is optimal, just that he's doing what I feel new town should do. The best way to grow is to question the things that you don't agree with and understand what the reasons are and whether or not those reasons make sense. Other than that, he appears to be scumhunting to the best of his abilities.

hellhound1

: His Day 1 was next to useless. His vote on Timeater wasn't really scummy, but as someone previously mentioned, the way it was placed was. I've seen the "forgot to vote" excuse before and it's even happened to me, so it's really null. But the way that he placed it just seemed off. Coming into Day 2, he starts off by accusing the fairly townie Zdenek and Twistedspoon. His WIFOM with why he wouldn't have killed Empking or Regfan really isn't a legitimate defense either, because of the WIFOM. From that point on I can't even really follow his train of thought. Does he think I'm scum? Was it a ploy to see if I came out looking scummy? I don't know. All I really know is at this point is that his current scum reads are shit. Me because a claimed vanilla townie might be a power role (though I can't tell if he really suspects me). Timeater because he was scummy yesterday, even though Timeater really didn't even look that scummy by the end of the day and still doesn't. TS because of allegedly trying to set up a mislynch, but not Zdenek, who he thinks is his partner? And why does he have a problem with Zdenek tunneling Timeater if he thinks Timeater may be scum too? I'm honestly not following his train of thought. And where is his vote? He seems to have a hard time placing it if not asked.

VOTE: hellhound1

Maruchan

: Ongoing games are ongoing, so I can just say meta. Don't like his assertion that there was no time for scum talk at the beginning of the game, but he still reads town to me. Still, don_johnson and nintendoaddict1 make some decent arguments and he will be watched.

nintendoaddict1

: Wow, he's posted a lot more than I thought. Not too sure on him. His vote history looks kinda scummy, particularly the TS vote today, and I really don't buy the Tick hammer excuse, could just be a vie for towncred. On the other hand, his case against Maruchan is decent. I'm more inclined to lean scum on him than Maruchan though. I'd say that if Maruchan flipped town, he's more likely scum, though not necessarily vice versa.

Timeater

: What's to say about him that I haven't already said? The guy is unstable and I don't think he's a credit to the town, but I think that he is a townie and it seems like a waste to lynch him. I'm not sure if him deciding he's gonna sheep TS is a good thing or a bad thing at this point. If Ts is town, it's good. If he's not, it's bad.

Twistedspoon

: I've been complimented several times by him for my play and it makes me wary. But he doesn't read scum at all. I'm pretty sure he's town.

Zdenek

: Seems pretty townish, but I'm really not positive on him. He is apparently V/LA right now, so I am waiting for content from him today to pass judgment.

Town
Ankamius
hahonryuu
Twistedspoon
Timeater
Maruchan
Zdenek
don_johnson
nintendoaddict1
hellhound1
Scum

@Everyone

: I would like a list from everyone, just in terms of where you stand on everyone else. It helps keep people consistent, I believe. With no list, a player is free to vote for anyone they like and it's harder to pin down where there head is at because they can jump around. By laying down where your reads stand, we can see if there is inconsistency in your actions more easily. For example, voting for your listed top town read with no clear catalyst can be very telling. And there has to be at least some reasoning. By the way, this is entirely optional, but it would be very helpful.

[Hikari Link]

@Everyone

: I would like a list from everyone

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p3369671

Yes, I saw that. I was just too lazy to add a qualifier excluding you.

i dont like the sliding scale

That defeats the purpose. That's just a list of your suspects and so it does us no good when you decide to change it up at random.

[Hikari Link]

mode switch

I AM NOW 100% SURE LINK IS TOWN

HEY NINTENDO WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT

... I think I know what you are trying to say about you and Link and secret reasons.

That makes 1 of us.

[Hikari Link]

everyone knows but me

foreveralone.jpg

I don't. That was not a typo. I'm genuinely confused as well, I just have the one theory where he's actully trying to get me night killed. But then that would imply he thinks I'm town, so that's probably not it...

[Hikari Link]

mode switch

I AM NOW 100% SURE LINK IS TOWN

HEY NINTENDO WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT

... I think I know what you are trying to say about you and Link and secret reasons.

That makes 1 of us.

I don't want to actually say what I think it is and then be right and look like an ass.

That's fine. I don't get it, but there is probably a good reason.

[Hikari Link]

let's go, fellas. saddle up. i've read the first four pages of the game and everyone's town and that's fantastic and i'm fantastic and hellhound1 isn't in the first four pages and he sticks out like a sore thumb on yesterday's final vote count.

so let's stop pussyfooting around and skin him alive.

Not sure if lazy, scummy, or right.

[Hikari Link]

Hellhound at L-1. I'm not really opposed to a hammer here.

[Hikari Link]

Welcome Casey we'll get along just fine us 2 once you've read the whole thread

I don't want a hammer until you've caught up; hence my unvote

Considering he admitted to laziness, I sense this will end up very similarly to don_johnson. Why slog through reading the day when he's just gonna throw a hellhound vote out in the end? That's what I'm imagining from him, at least.

something is really wrong here

@mod: why are only 5 votes required for a hammer when we have 10 players? 50% is not a majority >:[

11. A lynch occurs when a majority is reached. For an odd number of players, this is (n+1)/2. For an even number of players, this is (n/2)+1. For example, Day 1 will have 13 players alive, and ((13+1)/2) = 7 votes to lynch.

10/2 + 1 is not 5

I hadn't noticed that either. Good catch.

[Hikari Link]

Welcome Casey we'll get along just fine us 2 once you've read the whole thread

I don't want a hammer until you've caught up; hence my unvote

Considering he admitted to laziness, I sense this will end up very similarly to don_johnson. Why slog through reading the day when he's just gonna throw a hellhound vote out in the end? That's what I'm imagining from him, at least.

I think anyone can see 4 pages is nothing compared to where we are. Thus i expect him to read the whole thread, even if he doesn't make a catchup post as big as the one I did last time I replaced into a game

I hadn't noticed that either. Good catch.

ty
I felt something was off the way it got to L-1 so quickly....

I'd generally prefer it too, but I'm just anticipating him acting in the same way as don_johnson. And it would be kind of hypocritical to let dj get away with it and not nocase. I mean, he's coming in a relatively unsuspected slot and there's the chance he could be night killed. I'd hate to make him read 30 pages just to die when we all know hellhound is getting it today. He could stand to at least look at the general case against hellhound, but reading everything seems a bit harsh when we already haven't held everyone to those standards. If he wants to, that would be great, but if he doesn't, I see no reason to make him.

[Hikari Link]

Wow hellhound was almost hammered? Dang.

First I would like the mod to clarify if it is 10 or 11 to lynch

THEN hellhound should claim before anyone hammers him. Always good policy.

What TS said. Also, he totally claimed already.

[Hikari Link]

Yeah, VT.
If i do get hammered, and i WILL flip town, take a close look at TS please for pushing the mislynch, there was something wierd about the way he went at me from the start of D2. No one will listen to me, so i hope me flipping town will get someone to look at him.

Well he's also the one trying to keep you from getting lynched while nocase attempts to take the easy way out. Still going to keep it in mind if you flip town. I've got reads over him, even with that flip, but he's worth watching closer at least.

Welcome Casey we'll get along just fine us 2 once you've read the whole thread

I don't want a hammer until you've caught up; hence my unvote

Considering he admitted to laziness, I sense this will end up very similarly to don_johnson. Why slog through reading the day when he's just gonna throw a hellhound vote out in the end? That's what I'm imagining from him, at least.

I think anyone can see 4 pages is nothing compared to where we are. Thus i expect him to read the whole thread, even if he doesn't make a catchup post as big as the one I did last time I replaced into a game

I hadn't noticed that either. Good catch.

ty
I felt something was off the way it got to L-1 so quickly....

I'd generally prefer it too, but I'm just anticipating him acting in the same way as don_johnson. And it would be kind of hypocritical to let dj get away with it and not nocase. I mean, he's coming in a relatively unsuspected slot and there's the chance he could be night killed. I'd hate to make him read 30 pages just to die when we all know hellhound is getting it today. He could stand to at least look at the general case against hellhound, but reading everything seems a bit harsh when we already haven't held everyone to those standards. If he wants to, that would be great, but if he doesn't, I see no reason to make him.

point taken

I just assume replacements will read the thread though as that's what replacements do

If he's alive tommorow then I guess he could do with a read up

I just feel he (may) be sheeping voting hellhound without reading the whole thread. It seems odd. we have 26 extra pages of info so why not use it

Agreed and that's my general policy, but I understand that not all players feel that way.

[Hikari Link]

Oh this is a Normal? I thought all my Mini's except Lil Sicily were Themes. Mah Bad.

No. Theme games go in Coney Island and Theme Park sub-forums. And they always use pre-existing settings, to my knowledge. Such as Pokemon, My Little Pony, or Dexter.

[Hikari Link]

You straight away made a case out of where i was on the wagon, like, as your first thing. Does this not scream to anyone that he was obviously talking overnight?

no

what's that got to do with anything?

during night phases I briefly re-read games (provided they aren't too long into the game) and you stuck out.

as nocase has shown, you only need 4 pages to see you're the scummiest player around

Something really doesn't sit well with me hear. Maybe it's the fact that he has only a confirm post in the first 4 pages, yet you are implying he is scummy for that reason. Seems off to me.

[Hikari Link]

Plain and simple, there's no reason to lynch a PR that has not been counter-claimed in this situation. Nothing to be gained. I might be able to whip up a plan to make him useful. That's kind of my specialty, actually. Also, seems like a fairly legit claim. What scum really claims Doctor? There's so many more PRs that people actually give a fuck about and wouldn't just straight-out lynch.

[Hikari Link]

Plain and simple, there's no reason to lynch a PR that has not been counter-claimed in this situation. Nothing to be gained. I might be able to whip up a plan to make him useful. That's kind of my specialty, actually. Also, seems like a fairly legit claim. What scum really claims Doctor? There's so many more PRs that people actually give a fuck about and wouldn't just straight-out lynch.

UGH

Lets PLEASSSSE not get into "Would scum REALLLLLLLLLYYYY o this?!?" territory?

This is WIFOM mcshananigans gone crazy territory.

Nintendo claimed doc. Many people no longer want to lynch him without a CC.

I think if nintendo was scum, that would be a decent fakeclaim. Apparently you care enough about a doc to not lynch him right?

I never suggested scum wouldn't do that, so please don't put words in my mouth. My whole thing is looking at shit from multiple angles. Do you honestly believe I'm going to overlook the possibility that the claim is fake? I'm just saying that given the claim, I'm more inclined to believe it. A fake Doc claim is hard, because we can direct his protection at night and then even if he isn't the Doc, Mafia cant kill that person or he's outted as a fake. Yes, he could claim to be roleblocked, which isn't totally unlikely considering I'd be kind of surprised if there were no hookers in Vegas, so it just means that if we should take out a roleblocker, he has no excuses anymore.

For now I'd say the best bet is to just direct his protections. If they die, we can take it to indicate that either he is a liar or they have a roleblocker, either of which is useful information. If a roleblocker flips after that, we can infer he is probably town. If not, we can infer that he is probably scum. It's no guarantee, but it's the safest plan I can think of. Either way though, the death is not indicative of his alignment and it can actually hinder the Mafia if he is legit or if he isn't, so it seems like a solid plan. Any objections?

in fact the vig doesn't need to claim

we just have to direct the vig to a target and tell nintendo to protect the same target

the plan would work like this

1) we tell the vig to vig a general scumread tonight (hellhound? It has to be made clear who)

2) we tell Nintendo to protect the same target tonight

3) if that target is dead tommorow then Nintendo is confirmed doctor. Otherwise he isn't a doc

opinions?

I forgot about the roleblocker

K

You also forgot that we don't know for certain that there is a Vig or if the Vig has limited shots. Strange that you forgot this, considering you were the one who originally brought it up in response to dj's plan. This doesn't sit well with me at all.

[Hikari Link]

Plain and simple, there's no reason to lynch a PR that has not been counter-claimed in this situation. Nothing to be gained. I might be able to whip up a plan to make him useful. That's kind of my specialty, actually. Also, seems like a fairly legit claim.

What scum really claims Doctor?

There's so many more PRs that people actually give a fuck about and wouldn't just straight-out lynch.

UGH

Lets PLEASSSSE not get into "Would scum REALLLLLLLLLYYYY o this?!?" territory?

This is WIFOM mcshananigans gone crazy territory.

Nintendo claimed doc. Many people no longer want to lynch him without a CC.

I think if nintendo was scum, that would be a decent fakeclaim. Apparently you care enough about a doc to not lynch him right?

I never suggested scum wouldn't do that, so please don't put words in my mouth.

My whole thing is looking at shit from multiple angles. Do you honestly believe I'm going to overlook the possibility that the claim is fake? I'm just saying that given the claim, I'm more inclined to believe it. A fake Doc claim is hard, because we can direct his protection at night and then even if he isn't the Doc, Mafia cant kill that person or he's outted as a fake. Yes, he could claim to be roleblocked, which isn't totally unlikely considering I'd be kind of surprised if there were no hookers in Vegas, so it just means that if we should take out a roleblocker, he has no excuses anymore.

For now I'd say the best bet is to just direct his protections. If they die, we can take it to indicate that either he is a liar or they have a roleblocker, either of which is useful information. If a roleblocker flips after that, we can infer he is probably town. If not, we can infer that he is probably scum. It's no guarantee, but it's the safest plan I can think of. Either way though, the death is not indicative of his alignment and it can actually hinder the Mafia if he is legit or if he isn't, so it seems like a solid plan. Any objections?

The former and the latter are not even related. Figures of speech, sir, learn about them. Saying "what kind of x does y?" is not the same as "x never does y", it just means that I feel x is less likely to do y, as I clearly go on to state, which you would see if you weren't so busy trying to misrepresent my statement.

[Hikari Link]

1) we tell the vig to vig a general scumread tonight (hellhound? It has to be made clear who)

2) we tell Nintendo to protect the same target tonight

3) if that target is dead tommorow then Nintendo is confirmed doctor. Otherwise he isn't a doc

opinions?

Only thing about that is... why the hell would I protect a scumread? Nevermind the fact that it's someone else's read.

That's hardly the only problem, but I see your point.

[Hikari Link]

For the record, I see dom, TS, so that's still a no go on the crumb.

Nintendo, I want full details about your protection works.

I protect someone for two consecutive nights. I can do this every night.

So after the first night, if your not dead, two people will be protected each night?

Exactly. Even after I die, someone will be safe for one night.

This simply can't be true, can it? Especially if a Doc DOES exist. That means that If the Doc protects the White Mage every night and the White Mage protects the Doc and someone else every other night, the town can't possibly lose. And while this isn't a definitive case against the claim, what is a White Mage doing in Vegas? I need some time to think about this, but now isn't it. I have work soon, so I'm gonna start getting ready for that.

[Hikari Link]

maru: you've already admitted to playing scummy. don't be silly.

spoon: you are making me want to vote you. nintendo isn't doing anything but trying to coast off this claim. how is that a town read?

If we begin directing him, we can totally use him though. If we tell him to protect people and those people die during the two night period, we can probably lynch him. Just trying to work out a Roleblocker contingency. Going to work now.

[Hikari Link]

I really don't think the variant role is a problem at all and Timeater is just making a mountain out of a molehill.

There are no insane/unstable roles in normal games.

you're probably right there

still, we didn't think we'd have a white mage ('black mage' too?) and we can confirm a roleblocker through a vig claim so hope is not lost

I'm fairly certain a Black Mage is impossible, if this is to be believed:

New/variant roles may be included in limited number (no more than 1 in a Mini, 2 in a Large), and should be based on the usual role mechanics: Killing, Protecting, Investigating, Blocking, Voting, Enabling and Communication.

Which I think we can assume it is to be. What I'm actually far more concerned about is you. Yesterday, you sort of disregarded the possibility of multi-shot or one-shot Vig yesterday and now you've got a few more things added to the list. You haven't factored in that

1. There could be an SK.
2. Both Mafia and Vig/SK could have targeted dj last night.
3. Vig/SK could've targeted DJ and Mafia targeted Zdenek.
4. Vig could be 2-Shot, like the Tracker and just didn't have a target they were confident in last night. (Couldn't be an SK, because they don't have such a problem)
5. Vig/SK could have the Odd Night or Non-Consecutive Night modifier, as seen below:

Modifiers which are explicitly Normal include:
Even/Odd Night, Non-Consecutive Night, X-Shot, Bulletproof, Compulsive, Macho, Weak, Backup (with or without primary role present)

Obviously can't be Even Night, since a kill didn't happen last night and did happen the first night.

It's entirely possible that one of your three assertions is correct, but by no means a guarantee. Right now I'm sort of torn because I feel like TS could be scum, but at the same time, I don't want to see another PR lynch today. Still, my reasons for suspicion:

1. Call for a Vig claim without presenting all of the facts. If there is a Roleblocker and we still have a useful Vig that claims, he would become useless. The worst part is that he can just brush this off as being forgetful or not thinking about it and there's not a damn thing we can do about it.
2. Two protective roles seems really powerful, especially when one is semi-permanent. As explained earlier, this could have been exploited very much if it had been discovered and used.
3. Push for Zdenek (and myself to a lesser extent) as seemingly town above town could be seen as an attempt to buddy/protect scum buddy/implicate townie as scum.
4. Hammer on nintendoaddict yesterday after the certainty he presented that nintendo was town.
5. This post calls Maruchan near-confirmed town for his reponse to the Vig gambit, yet he went after Maruchan a few times after the gambit and even now has his vote on Maruchan.
6. Seems kinda certain that dj must have been the Mafia target and that Zdenek wasn't. Granted, he was making a lot of assumptions, but that one doesn't sit right with me.

Admittedly this is WIFOM and circumstantial evidence at best. This is by no means a certainty, but we've got to consider the possibility carefully as time goes on. We really should've lynched TS yesterday. The fact that he asked for it first is in no means indication of him being town though, since scum could just as easily make the statement to look town. There's really just no good way of telling at this point.

Regardless of whether or not he is town though, there's really no need for the Vig claim at this point. All of us unclaimed guys should keep quiet so that is there is a Vig, he can stay hidden. Even if he was roleblocked last night, I believe I've now created enough uncertainty that the Mafia can't even determine whether or not they actually successfully blocked anything. If there's a Serial Killer, he could just as easily be any of the claimed vanilla townies, so the narrowing down is useless.

Right now I'd say our best bet is to continue on the hellhound wagon from yesterday, but I'll list everyone right now and my stance on them.

Zdenek: Seems townish, but he's still done nothing for the town of particular value. Nonetheless, he could be the Vig and so we can't lynch him yet. I don't generally endorse teamhunting, but I feel like if he or TS flipped scum, the other would be more likely to flip scum.
hellhound1: Still scummy, but he did place his vote on TS yesterday. If he flipped town, I'd have a stronger suspicion of TS.
Timeater: Not sure if VI or evil genius masquerading as VI.
hahonryuu: Seems town enough and a potential Vig. Can't and shouldn't lynch.
Twistedspoon: Seems scummy to me, but I am subject to bouts of paranoia. Nonetheless, claimed Doc and we really shouldn't lynch him right now.
Maruchan: It occurs to me that both dj and nintendo made arguments against him and now they have both flipped town and he's well on my radar.
nocase: I want some real work put in from him today, but his slot has looked clean so far, so no complaints about him.

Analyzing NK reasoning is far too WIFOM, especially with a potential Vig/SK, so I'm not even gonna bother looking at that to determine scum.
VOTE: hellhound1

@maru:

so why would I claim doc after a doc already claimed if I wasn't one? that's just asking for a lynch after the original doc flipped town?

IT MAKES NO SENSE

That's entirely debatable. You used a breadcrumb and could have easily argued that there were 2 Docs in the game. Taking out a Doc when there is no guarantee that you will be taken out isn't that bad.

besides, if the vig claims and he says his kill didn't occur

then there must be a roleblocker.

That makes the setup far less broken/quote]
Explain to me how knowing a Roleblocker exists helps us when we don't know who they are. Seems to me like it just creates the opportunity for scum to block the claimed Vig.

Don was just as critical of yourself maru, so don't play the don card on me

He's the one who said that first, so I really don't see why you think it is necessary to repeat it.

we need a vig claim right now to prove we have a scum RB

Useless claim is useless. Say more scummy things please, so that I have enough justification to lynch you today, because you are becoming my top suspect and the only thing keeping you alive right now is your Doc claim.

For the record, it's quit possible that TS is a Mafia Doc. With a Vig/SK afoot, there's a lot of reason for that to exist. Honestly, I'd like to see TS hang today, but I can settle for tomorrow if everyone else wants to keep him alive today.

[Hikari Link]

That's entirely debatable. You used a breadcrumb and could have easily argued that there were 2 Docs in the game. Taking out a Doc when there is no guarantee that you will be taken out isn't that bad.

1) I breadcrumbed because I was doc. Link me to a game where mafia breadcrumb. It doesn't occur to them
2) easily argued there were 2 docs? How? It could be broken
3) there was a guarantee I'd go. Purely because no setup any of us had ever seen had 2 docs before. they're broken. even don and the others said I'd be lynched as should nintendo flip town

1. I don't know of any such game, but I'm sure that there are instances where it has occurred. Particularly if you are the Mafia Doc, since you can actually use your power to "prove" you are town in the right circumstances.
2. There was a White Mage and you are still claiming Doc, this argument is invalid.
3. Again, I bring up that the White Mage is just a far more powerful Doc. Your argument is invalid.

Useless claim is useless. Say more scummy things please, so that I have enough justification to lynch you today, because you are becoming my top suspect and the only thing keeping you alive right now is your Doc claim.

judge me on my d1 play

I was not scummy then, even you realised that

It was only when nintendo claimed doc that my brain got messed up and i started to post nonsense. nothing made sense to me from that point
as a result my posts became madcap and rushed

Judge you only by your Day 1 play? What the fuck kind of bullshit is that? I'm judging you by all of your play.

This should've been posted like 30 minutes or more ago. Curse all of these distractions.

@Zdenek: Care to rationalize that for the rest of us?

[Hikari Link]

You haven't factored in that

1. There could be an SK.
2. Both Mafia and Vig/SK could have targeted dj last night.
3. Vig/SK could've targeted DJ and Mafia targeted Zdenek.
4. Vig could be 2-Shot, like the Tracker and just didn't have a target they were confident in last night. (Couldn't be an SK, because they don't have such a problem)
5. Vig/SK could have the Odd Night or Non-Consecutive Night modifier, as seen below:

I know, that's whya vig claim would be swish to claer things up

if he targeted a player other than zdnek and is not 1-shot then there must be an RB. This is why he should claim to explain these things

if scum RB'd him then they probably know who he is now anyways, so why doesn't he claim and prove my RB theory?
Because how the fuck does it help to know an RB exists if we can't do shit about it? But what does it do with a claim? It makes the fucking Vig useless. You aren't even listening.

@maru:

so why would I claim doc after a doc already claimed if I wasn't one? that's just asking for a lynch after the original doc flipped town?

IT MAKES NO SENSE

"Why would....do....? Makes no sense!"

WIFOMY WIFOMIGN WIFOM MC WIFOMERSHOM WIFOM

no

even to I it made no sense 2 protective roles

but it was my role and I cannot argue.

Put yourself in my shoes

you're a doc

you see a player claim doc.

You eventually claim doc even even though you know 2 docs is absurd; It's still your role

now I'm in this rut.

By this logic you should have not ever been 50/50 on the nintendo lynch. You should've countered because you were certain he was scum.

Besides, you can't just dismiss everything as wifom. Wifom is not the holy grail of mafia. This is no newbie game. Wifom has to be evaluated and in my case what would the logic be in CC;ing doc as scum when after one doc goes down, flips town, I'd be a certain lynch?

By this logic, why would you ever believe his claim?

@Zdenek: Care to rationalize that for the rest of us?

Super-doc plus doc is broken, so TS dies.

But it could happen in theory. I really doubt it, but it's certainly not beyond the realm of possibility.

UNVOTE: hellhound1, VOTE: Twistedspoon

Your stories just aren't adding up to me.

[Hikari Link]

man there's no point in even trying is there?

Nope, not really. Not for scum, at least. Town could at least bother with a nice little farewell post. It won't save you, but at least you could nudge us in the right direction, right?

[Hikari Link]

ct maruchan to pop his head in again, quote whatever I write and type wifom in caps several times....I usually play better than this. That is allGL town. There's no fight in me anymore. My interest now is joining the dead QT so I can at least learn what scum had to balance this mad, mad setup (yes this is wifom maruchan)

This argument is bad. If you flip town, it stops being WIFOM, so if you have shit to say, fucking say it. I'll stroke your ego if you flip town. Until then, get to work and help the town or hammer yourself as scum and end the damn day, because you are going to die.

[Hikari Link]

there's nothing i can say that I haven't already said tbh

I'v given my reads and the like. I'm sure my 228 posts cover all of my thoughts so far

Yeah, cause taking the time to recollect them here and reaffirm your reads doesn't help the town at all, right? Rather than having us wade through all of your posts, you should bottom line for us what actions you want taken once you flip town and who you feel the best suspects are. As scum, sure, deny it to us, but town should try to help in any way possible when they know they will die.

[Hikari Link]

unvote

Vote: Link

Why am I not surprised? What happened to that 100% town read? You are really bad at percentages, aren't you?

Strong doc + doc is fine considering we have an SK.

Waiting on those claims. Quicklynch TS isn't gonna happen.

Nobody is making those claims and you're a fool if you think it's going to happen. I've already explained why TS had bad reasoning to call for it and your call for a massclaim was even dumber. If any of the three remaining unclaimed players claim, we put the Vig in risk if it exists and isn't one-shot. Not only would it be subject to potential kills, but also Roleblocking, which would make it useless.

Explain how we suddenly have a confirmed Serial Killer all of a sudden, could you?

[Hikari Link]

Because you're the SK duh

And your reasoning behind that is...?

[Hikari Link]

Who do you think you're talking to?

A useless townie who just wastes everybody's time. If you don't have a case for me being SK, then kindly shut the hell up. No case means you are just talking out of your ass as always and should be ignored.

[Hikari Link]

I knew you wouldnt be able to resist

You knew I wouldn't be able to resist what?

[Hikari Link]

So how about that Link lynch.

Again, I'm going to have to insist that you present an actual case, rather than just spouting bullshit.

[Hikari Link]

Just admit you're the SK, it'll be easier for everyone that way.

If you do, you gain honorary town membership and win when we kill the other mafia member(s?).

1. I'm not SK, so I have no reason to "admit" that I am.
2. Even if I was SK, I'd play to win.
3. What Maruchan said. Case or stfu.

[Hikari Link]

Look at the way Link responds to my accusation. He probes, looks and gives for reasons, makes soft-attacks when he can get away with it. This is more than just being calculated, this is scum. His initial response was to ask for my reasoning, so he could rebut me. I think of a thousand more genuine responses.

That's because you're reasoning is always bad and so I find the best response is to attempt to work it out with you, because sometimes you see reason and other times you just randomly decide I'm town again.

TS had no reason to counter-claim gambit as scum.

Then why the fuck did you vote for him earlier?

Most people have considered him very townie.

So? You considered me 100% townie just the other day and now you are calling for my death.

If he was a scum he was in a comfortable enough position where he didn't need to be forced to gambit. As scum, he would have more to lose than to gain with such a counter-claim. The act in itself was extremely townie. Dont feed into this 'HURR GOTTA LYNCH TS NO MATTER WHAT' bullshit. It'll only lead the town into ruin.

I don't. I think we've gotta lynch him because he's scum.

man there's no point in even trying is there?

Nope, not really. Not for scum, at least. Town could at least bother with a nice little farewell post. It won't save you, but at least you could nudge us in the right direction, right?

Scum. Fucking scum. Wait for the claims.

What claims? I already told you we aren't massclaiming today and TS already claimed yesterday. That's all the claims.

Lynch Link. I can post all day about why Link is scum.

Then do it. But you are going to need actual reasons, not just made-up shit.

Link will of course respond to this post with character assassination and blasé logic. Timeater is a troll, Timeater is a VI, Timeater hasn't done anything (except for getting Tick lynched).

Well it's mighty presumptuous of you to assume that you were the one who got The Tick lynched. Also, you are those things. It's not character assassination, it's the truth. But you'll notice that I respond to each individual argument, I don't just lump it all together as you fucking up. And I'm within my rights to do it because your arguments are genuinely bad.

TS; grow some balls and put up a fight. We can still win this. One messy mislynch isn't gonna cost us this.

That's not the problem. He's pretty obviously just lazy scum hoping that if he doesn't self-hammer, he can survive without making actual posts of content. Real town would've probably posted something helpful as a last bit of usefulness to the town instead of moping about because someone would just dismiss it.

[Hikari Link]

Maru is probably scum too.

So you've got the whole game worked ut then, haven't you? I'm Serial Killer and Maruchan is scum, right? Or is there a third scum in addition to the SK?

[Hikari Link]

More like good try on trying to set me up as the lynch for tomorrow.

I've never given any indication that I want you lynched. I don't waste votes on people I think are town.

Link is screaming for noclaims because he knows its gonna hurt him.

Actually, it's because I know it will hurt the town. As I've already said, TS had a dumb plan today. It was full of holes and created for more danger for the Vig than it did usefulness for the town and it's pointless in the event of an SK. Maybe you aren't aware that if the Vig claims and there is a Roleblocker and he isn't lynched today, he will become completely useless. See the difference between you and me is that I think about what is best for the town and you don't think at all.

AND LOL at his recent post.

Oh, well that settles it then, doesn't it? You laughed out loud at my response, so I must be SK. Well done, sir.. Truly, I've met my match in this battle of wits.

I honestly dont have the stamina to go at it or him right now as for his motivations are just so blatantly transparent and obviously scummy.

Clearly scummy motivations. How dare I think of trying to keep our Vig safe.

But apparently I have to hold hands. Tomorrow.

Yeah, please do that.

I've been lenient with Maruchan, way too lenient.

Of course you have.

Zdenek if you have any balls at all you will join me in my righteous quest to smite these scummers and stop the mislynch on TS.

Yes, questioning someone's courage if they refuse to see things your way. That's a solid case right there.

Nocase, want to hear from you.

I'd like to hear from him too, actually. Might as well read through the thread now.

[Hikari Link]

why does the shit always hit the fan while i am gone?

I'd hardly call it shit hitting the fan. Unless you think TS is town. Do you?

[Hikari Link]

i had zdenek down as town, too, for some reason that i can't look up right now. something's wrong here.

Could it be the Vig gambit? And what seems to be the matter?

[Hikari Link]

BRAINFLASH!

zdenek+viggambit+multiplenightkills+none lastnight=ZDENEK POSSIBLE FERSRS VIG?!?!?

/)_-
Why would you possibly say that? Are you

trying

to get him night killed? Zdenek, please, don't dignify that with a response.

[Hikari Link]

I didn't say it tbh. Twistedspoon said it.

He said if there is a vig its zdenek (or you).

I was just trying to see if anyone had actually read twistedspoon's posts.

He also mentioned as an aside that it could be hahonryuu. But there's really no need to actually say it. We all know that if there's a Vig, it's one of us, but that doesn't mean you should go drawing attention to any of the 3. You don't give scum a clear target or town a chance to confirm or refute the statement. It's best to leave everything as open-ended as possible to confuse the scum. Confusing scum is always a great tactic.

[Hikari Link]

PS if TS is scum I'll never post on MS again

This honestly sounds like two birds with one stone to me.I'm not sure if I'd be more surprised if you kept your word here or if you didn't.

[Hikari Link]

Zdenek, care to explain your read?

You're wrong, 2 of those people im pretty sure are town (being me and HL), i think you might be bussing on TS.

I've actually been thinking of that possibility myself and if you should flip town and had planned to come after him if TS and you had flipped town. If you are right, then by my math, his plan guarantees a scum win. A clever plan, but it shall not work.

I was really trying to keep this under my hat, but I can see the endgame in sight, so I'll just have to claim. I'm the Odd Night Vig. First kill was on Empking because I thought it would be too hard to find him as scum and I knew he wouldn't be very useful even if he flipped town. My current theory is TS is a Mafia Doc to make up for the fact that we have a White Mage and a Vig and Zdenek is a Roleblocker to help stop both of those things.

Trust me on this one and go with a Zdenek lynch today and I'll Vig TS today for what I believe should be game. If Zdenek and TS flip town, you are welcome to lynch myself and hellhound, because I can almost hear Zdenek calling us scum right now.

UNVOTE: Twistedspoon, VOTE: Zdenek

[Hikari Link]

Zdenek, care to explain your read?

You're wrong, 2 of those people im pretty sure are town (being me and HL), i think you might be bussing on TS.

I've actually been thinking of that possibility myself and if you should flip town and had planned to come after him if TS and you had flipped town. If you are right, then by my math, his plan guarantees a scum win. A clever plan, but it shall not work.

I was really trying to keep this under my hat, but I can see the endgame in sight, so I'll just have to claim. I'm the Odd Night Vig. First kill was on Empking because I thought it would be too hard to find him as scum and I knew he wouldn't be very useful even if he flipped town. My current theory is TS is a Mafia Doc to make up for the fact that we have a White Mage and a Vig and Zdenek is a Roleblocker to help stop both of those things.

Trust me on this one and go with a Zdenek lynch today and I'll Vig TS today for what I believe should be game. If Zdenek and TS flip town, you are welcome to lynch myself and hellhound, because I can almost hear Zdenek calling us scum right now.

UNVOTE: Twistedspoon, VOTE: Zdenek

so if you are a town odd-night vig, why did you get upset with me for trying to call attention to zdenek (who you think is scum)?

If he IS town and a VT, him being killed by mafia would have helped save you Link, and if he is scum, then me calling attention to him is not bad at all.

That was an attempt to make him seem like he

was

the Vig and I wasn't, because before his last post, I only had a suspicion that he might be scum.

[Hikari Link]

If you have other questions, please ask, I'll try to phone post when possible, but I'll be gone for about the next 5 hours. Don't mislynch me in that time, but Zdenek is fair game.
@Maruchan: I really don't care if you ave your eye on me. I'm fairly certain we win this game tonight if everyone follows through with my plan. And if not, I'm more than willing to answer for it.

[Hikari Link]

Oh no! I'm being tag-teamed by my scum reads. All will be explained and answered for when I get home, but town should be able to see the holes in their current arguments until I get to a proper keyboard. Don't bother stating them, because I really should be able to point them out myself if my claim is legit. Just keep any holes you find in your mind. Don't even jump on the Zdenek wagon yet. No support for me anymore until I've had my say, please.

[Hikari Link]

Here's why I don't believe it by the way.

Zdenek: Seems townish, but he's still done nothing for the town of particular value. Nonetheless, he could be the Vig and so we can't lynch him yet.

That quote says nothing. I just had a suspicion you were scum at the time, but I wasn't sure, so you were still useful as a tool to distract scum from lynching me. I've claimed now, so I have no qualms lynching you now. I had to make you think that I didn't suspect you too, in case you were Roleblocker.

zdenek, lets not split up our bandwaggons now. -.-

Hmmmm, I'll stick with Link for the time being.

You keep it on me, because my vote is not leaving you for the rest of the day. I can see victory in my grasp and I'm staying the course.

here today

zdnek finds an interesting point. why does HL mention the possibility of zdnek being the vig if he is? why bring it up at all?

That's not even a remotely interesting point. What power role says "well, that guy can't be the PR, cause it's me"? Smartest move I could make was to vaguely pretend not to be the Vig, which was what I was doing.

but the simple facts are that if ryu or zdnek doesn't cc then HL is probably the vig....
HL didn't explain his empking vig though which i thought would be important, claiming results andd reasoning when claiming. Nonetheless Empking's playstyle still made him a good vig target and HL is probably the vig if Ryu doesn't counterclaim..

I completely explained it though, so nice work on reading.

Also, his reasons for killing Empking look like scum trying to justify a kill rather than just taking out the person he is most suspicious of.

Nope. They really don't. Especially if you look at my suspicion list from Day 1. I had The Tick (lynched), don_johnson (promised more content Day 2, so I decided to wait), Timeater (stopped being a suspect abut 3/4 of the way through Day 1), and Empking (impossible to read). Now of those 4 peple, the only correct choice was Empking. It's a perfectly reasonable decision.

Also, this sort of reactive statement designed to cut off conversation is scum bread and butter

. . . . because I can almost hear Zdenek calling us scum right now.

Actually, that sort of statement is exactly how I play. I've got no problem stating what I think is going to happen and I revel in it coming to pass. I'd have been disappointed if you didn't respond, but the fact that you did so in such a weak manner saddens me. Extra points for not counter-claiming though. By not doing so though, you've only strengthened my resolve that TS is scum. If the final Mafioso was better hidden or you weren't the Roleblocker, you could totally have done that and try to get me mislynched.

Oh no! I'm being tag-teamed by my scum reads.

I just said you were probably the vig :/

Yeah, with as much uncertainty as possible. You also attempted to discredit me by making some poor arguments against me.

Hikari

is scum making shit up.

Oh I can't way to see your scummy ass hang.

fact of the matter is, you aren't CC him, and I'm not CC him...so the chances of him being vig/SK is pretty high. if he is, mafia or the real vig/SK will take care of him tonight. if he isn't we can always take care of him later. lets face it, telling the truth or lying, Link is dead. he has little to gain from a claim like this.

so for now I'll go with it

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Zdenek

Thanks for taking the time to read the post where I asked for no support.

My lynch would be profoundly stupid at this point.

Nope, cause you are the only one stopping me from ending the game tonight.

TS is likely scum because LOL 2 docs

But he's not the Roleblocker.

and Link's claim is not coming from town.

Pics or it didn't happen. You really did fuck up here. You had a much better shot at surviving and maybe even convincing me and others you were town if you weren't so busy trying to discredit me and instead worked on trying to prove yourself town and/or finding the "real Roleblocker".

If Link was town, considering that he's not voting TS, he'd be afraid of their being great scum power, and wouldn't have claimed now risking being role-blocked or killed.

False story. The only reason I claimed is because of my level of certainty that you are the Roleblocker. What possible reason would I have as scum to claim Vig today or right now? Surely not to protect TS. If so, I wouldn't have put him at L-1 and I most certainly would not call him and you my 2 suspects. It's not like I was at L-1 and needed to claim to survive. I claim the moment I think that it's most beneficial to the town. Maruchan can vouch for that.

He's scum. No doubt.

And again we come to where you fucked up. Too much emphasis on trying to discredited the uncounter-claimed Vig and not enough emphasis on not doing dumb shit. Props to both you and TS. You played a pretty good Day 1. The Day 2 not so much and you fell apart today. Bu then I'm your opponent, so I really can't blame you for not being able to outdo me.

@Town: If Zdenek and TS don't flip scum and I'm not dead tomorrow, then feel free to lynch me if you honestly believe I'm town. For today, humor me and I guarantee victory. What is the worst that can happen? We can mislynch a townie, but it's not gonna put us in MyLo if we do or anything. You give this a shot and we can end this right now and if not, then Zdenek is probably right and I'm scum that must be lynched tomorrow, right? It's win-win.

[Hikari Link]

That quote says nothing. I just had a suspicion you were scum at the time, but I wasn't sure, so you were still useful as a tool to distract scum from lynching me. I've claimed now, so I have no qualms lynching you now. I had to make you think that I didn't suspect you too, in case you were Roleblocker.

I just had a suspicion you were scum at the time, but I wasn't sure, so you were still useful as a tool to distract scum from lynching me.

but I wasn't sure, so you were still useful as a tool to distract scum from lynching me.

so you were still useful as a tool to distract scum from lynching me.

tool to distract scum from lynching me.

scum from lynching me.

from lynching me.

lynching me.

lynching

Okay... You know you could've just quoted or underlined it and pointed out that I misspoke.

[Hikari Link]

I've seen other people use the method, and it more DRAMATIC.

It's just more annoying, really. So you gonna vote Zdenek so we can get on with this or what?

[Hikari Link]

RYUU

HELLHOUND

WAKEUP AND VOTE LINK

What the hell is wrong with you? Has the thought not even remotely occured to you that you are wrong? Why would you even attempt to lynch me today of all days when we have victory right here? Even TS, who you seem certain is town says that I'm probably the Vig and you still can't see it? Is your head really so far up your own ass? Lynch me tomorrow, sure. My powers are useless after today anyway because I'm guaranteed to die tonight if I'm telling the truth. Vig or SK, it doesn't really matter, does it? Either way, there's zero chance that mafia will leave me alive through tonight, because I'm a threat to their victory condition. You want me dead? It's done. I'm gone, no matter what. If both TS and Zenek flip town and I'm not killed, then I must be scum right? So you can lynch me then. But doing it now is beyond stupid. Just lynch Zdenek, I'll Vig TS, and we can end this game. Stop being thickheaded.

[Hikari Link]

unfortunately, nobody CC's Link.

Vote: zdenek

I'm not sure why that's unfortunate, but I'll accept that. Timeater, you have the power to end this game right now.

@nocase

: Read my last few posts and vote Zdenek if Timeater doesn't come to his senses. You can worry about the state of things tomorrow if this fails to end the game. I 100% guarantee we won't see a hammer from TS or Zdenek unless they just want to concede this game.

[Hikari Link]

tell me about it

Still gonna Vig you tonight if I'm not Roleblocked. If I die and this isn't game, hellhound might be a good choice. Lynch TS first though if I get Roleblocked, of course

[Hikari Link]

HL is still with us?

hi HL

want to talk about
1) why you're still alive if you're town

Thw only reason I can think of is that I'm being set up for a mislynch today. We're officially in MyLo right now.

2) why you didn't get a kill in if you are a vig (roleblock or my protection?)

Roleblock. I targeted you, of course.

3) zdnek saying you cannot be town for these reasons

...Link's claim is not coming from town.

If Link was town, considering that he's not voting TS, he'd be afraid of their being great scum power, and wouldn't have claimed now risking being role-blocked or killed. He's scum. No doubt.

I already explained this, but I'll do so again. I thought for certain that Zdenek was scu8m, based on his own actions. For starters, I didn't like where his votes had been for the previous days. Day 1 he didn't vote Tick and Day 2 he voted nintendoaddict. Then Day 3 he voted you, which seemed like bussing to me. This post was the last straw. It wasn't that he wanted to lynch me, it was the certainty with which he stated that we'd win if we did it, when if any two of those people weren't scum, we'd actually lose. He left no room for contingency or chance for any other scum, he just stated that doing that meant we would win. From there, as I stated before, he attempted to discredit me rather than convince me he was town. His Vig ploy earlier also seemed like he was setting up to claim Vig at some point to me, which I knew was impossible.

Also, his reasons for killing Empking look like scum trying to justify a kill rather than just taking out the person he is most suspicious of.
Already explained this, but it was a perfectly legitimate reason. Of my four suspects from Day 1, he was the only one still living that I'd probably never get enough info on to confirm as scum or town, so I went with a Vig.

Also, this sort of reactive statement designed to cut off conversation is scum bread and butter

. . . . because I can almost hear Zdenek calling us scum right now.

That's just my style. I don't have a problem stating exactly what I think will happen. You'll notice I didn't say something like "see, I told you", I only responded normally like I do to everything.

Here's why I don't believe it by the way.

Zdenek: Seems townish, but he's still done nothing for the town of particular value. Nonetheless, he could be the Vig and so we can't lynch him yet.

I'm fairly certain I already said that this is not an argument. I've literally already responded to all of these already, so why are you asking them again? The answers aren't changing because he flipped town because I didn't know he was at the time and the what I said then was based on what I thought at the time. When I still thought he could be town, there was no reason not to say that he could be the Vig if it meant that I might not be targeted by scum. It's why the statement was so vaguely worded. I called him townish rather than town because I was mildly suspicious, but I wasn't anywhere near sure.

zdenek, lets not split up our bandwaggons now. -.-

Hmmmm, I'll stick with Link for the time being.

[/quote]
What's to say to that? He was as wrong as I was. Both of us suspected one another above all others and we were both wrong.

Right now this is an extremely bad situation. There can't be more than 3 scum total, since 4 would mean we already lost. So far, the PRs we've seen flip are the White Mage and the 2-Sot Tracker, I believe. In addition, I'm the Odd Night Vig. As stated before, this leads me to believe that the TS claim is untrue. At this point, I have to be the Vig. There is nobody who can counter-claim me and an SK wouldn't have been roleblocked last night and could've easily targeted TS. I've got no problem with a TS lynch today, but the problem is tomorrow. We can't mislynch anymore, which is admittedly my fault, but it also means that we need to be very thorough in our selection. hellhound seems like the most likely option and I think it definitely had to be someone on the Zdenek wagon yesterday, which again points to him.

VOTE: Twitedspoon

From this point on, I probably won't be Night Killed, sinc I can't afford to misVig tomorrow night, I'd probably be roleblocked anyway, and I'm a perfect mislynch target. It's possible that could change if the town believes my claim though, but not a sure thing. I'm just saying this so that everyone understands that there is every reason for the Mafia not to kill me at night from this point on. I can understand if you want to lynch me because I got Zdenek killed, but I really did believe he was scum and I was fairly certain we had the game won. The fact of the matter is though, I must be the Vig because nobody else can be the Vig. And there must be a Vig or there would be no way of explaining the Night 1 kill of Empking and then no other kills. Well, other than a one-shot SK. But why would I claim as scum then? Thee was no reason for it. As I explained yesterday, my claim only made sense as town. As scum, the real Vig would counter-claim and I'd die along with TS or the SK would kill me at night. As SK, I'd draw unnecessary attention to myself and would be the guaranteed lynch after all scum are killed. These are the only 3 options, because we know for a fact that the Empking death came from somewhere. So in closing, I'm town and we need to lynch TS, but I really can't be sure what to do from there. I suppose hellhound is probably the way to go. Their conflict could have been mutual bussing, I suppose.

[Hikari Link]

Vote count:

Hellhound -
Timeater -
Link (sorry) -
Twistedspoon -
Maruchan -
nocase -

Not voting - Hahonryuu, Nocase, hellhound, timeater, Maruchan, Link

5 votes are required for a lynch.

Day ends 11:06 15th september, 2011.

I believe you mean 4 votes.

[Hikari Link]

this is why we should have massclaimed d2

nobody listens to a genius

That would have gotten the exact same results that it did yesterday.Only I would've died Night 2. It was a bad plan and would've solved nothing.

I've known HL was scum since D1

You can't know something that isn't true.

Umm I thought my bullshitting was obvious.

The fact that you are still attacking me over that is not good, considering I'm like one of your only allies.

Well that certainly explains a lot. For the record though, it will take the entire town to get a scum lynch at this point. Either that or a bus. Either way, assuming you are town, which I do, it means that you can't dick around voting for me or we won't be able to lynch scum, just so you know.

[Hikari Link]

even if Maru was scum, HL is either SK or mafioso. If he's SK he has to go now as otherwise 2 kills would occur tonight and that would be game over if both the SK and mafioso target townies tonight

in other words if we have an SK he has to die today.

I feel HL is an SK who has purposefully only killed on odd nights (and was roleblocked last night) to make him seem more like a vig, as SK's don't usually have night restrictions but Vigs do
Either that or he's just plain mafioso. He's the only one with Sk potential though and needs to go today in case he is the SK. The other mafioso can go after we remove HL from the equation

Reasoning here is shit, but at least you've finally shown your true colors. Working on a case for why I'm not SK right now, actually.

[Hikari Link]

Crap, it's later than I thought. I need to leave now and I'll be back later tonight. I'll post the reasoning why I'm not SK (or if I am, why it's good to keep me alive) before I go to bed tonight.

Also, Mafia case on me is utter shit. I'm fairly certain there is no normal Mafia role that gives extra kills. And the fact that you have now 100% dismissed Vig as a possibility when you thought it was entirely possible and likely yesterday shows that you are quite full of shit.

[Hikari Link]

Maruhan and nocase (and hellhound if one of those guys is actually scum), I'm leaving it up to you not to fuck this up before I've had my say. Odds are near 100% that we'll lose because we've got Timeater and so we almost certainly can't lynch scum today, but at least hear me out first. I'll prove that I'm not SK or scum or at worst, I'm an SK that the town can manipulate for a win.

[Hikari Link]

And the fact that you have now 100% dismissed Vig as a possibility when you thought it was entirely possible and likely yesterday shows that you are quite full of shit.

you're not a vig. The zdnek evidence and the fact you're still here, when were I scum I'd have killed you N1, is reason enough to assume you're not town

then the only other options are mafia or SK

like you say, It's unlikely a double killing mafioso exists, so you're an SK then

simples

now we have to kill the SK today to make only 1 kill tonight rather than 2, because 2 is potentially game-losing for town.

Logical fallacy is fallacious.

Also, Mafia case on me is utter shit. I'm fairly certain there is no normal Mafia role that gives extra kills. And the fact that you have now 100% dismissed Vig as a possibility when you thought it was entirely possible and likely yesterday shows that you are quite full of shit.

sounds just like frustrated scum who's been caught tbh

Really does not. Also, I've got an hour more than I thought, so I'm continuing for now.

[Hikari Link]

Vote count:

Hellhound -
Timeater -
Link (sorry) - Tspoon, HL,
Twistedspoon - Link,
Maruchan -
nocase -

Not voting - Hahonryuu, Nocase, hellhound, timeater, Maruchan,

4 votes are required for a lynch.

Day ends 11:06 15th september, 2011.

hahonryuu is dead too.

[Hikari Link]

you say you're the perfect myslynch? er.. no, that's myself.

No it's not, since it wouldn't be a mislynch.

If anyome was left alive for wifom it was me. You might be an SK or sumthin

It's highly unlikely. I've covered that. As an SK, I almost can't win. I'll do the math for you though, so that you can't just counter my argument with "yes you can".

6 players left means: 4 town, 1 scum, and 1 SK or 4 Town and 2 scum or 3 town, 2 scum, and 1 SK, right? So with the first set up we have these options if you were town that were mislynched today:

1. Scum kills town and I kill town. That leaves 1, 1, and 1, an automatic town loss, but then both myself and scum would lose or we'd be in a deadlock or town would win. Since killing one of us would cause the other to win, the townie would be best served to kill nobody. Lynching the townie means we'd kill one another at night and there would be no survivors. Killing each other means the town wins. There's no good way out of the cycle for scum or SK.

2. Scum kills me tonight and I kill scum. Town win.

3. Scum kills town and I kill scum. I'm lynched the next day and town wins.

4. I kill town and scum kills me. I lose and town in LyLo.

5. Scum and I target the same town or a Roleblocker exists and can target kill and roleblock. 2 townies, 1 scum, 1 SK left. from there:

a. Mislynch town. Leads to Scenario 1.

b. Lynch scum. I win.

c. Lynch me. I lose and so does town.

6. Scum can kill and Roleblock and does so on me. I lose. 3 Town, 1 Scum.

In set up 2:

1. Mislynch town today. We lose.

2. Lynch scum today. Leads to MyLo again.

In set up 3:

1. Lynch me. I lose. Scum kill town. Scum wins.

2. Lynch Rolelocker. Leads to:

a. Scum and I kill different townies. Leads to situation 1.1.

b. Scum and I target the same guy. Leads to 2 town, 1 scum, 1 SK. Leads to.

I. Lynch me. Scum win.

II. Lynch scum. I win.

III. Lynch town. Leads to stuation 1.1.

3. Lynch non-Roleblocker scum. Leads to:

a. Scum kill me. I lose. Town in MyLo.

b. Scum block me and kill town. This leads to:

I. Lynch town. Becomes situation 1.1.

II. Lynch scum. I win.

III. Lynch me. Scum win.

As you can see from all of those possibilities, there are only 3 scenarios with me as the SK that lead to my win. If I were the SK and hadn't claimed yesterday, that number would jump tremendously.

anyways you say 2 docs can't exist, yet you say a roleblocker must exist as your kill didn't occur last night. So if you say there must be an RB why can't there be 2 docs?

Because 2 Docs would be town-aligned while a Roleblocker would be Mafia aligned, duh. That's just a fucking dumb question.

also, I'm not interested in you finding zdnek scum, I'm interested in why he found you scum.
VOTE: HL

Okay...? Then why would you even ask the question? if you didn't care what my answer was?

Have to leave for real now, but I'll respond to other things when I get back and I'll try to keep up with things on the phone.

[Hikari Link]

ding ding

did someone order a pizza with extra scuminess?

you say you're the perfect myslynch? er.. no, that's myself.

No it's not, since it wouldn't be a mislynch.

not good logic here HL. You're scum because.. you're scum? 2/10 on the logicometer
I'm the one being left alive for wifom
you're the one being left alive because you won't shoot yourself

Untrue statement is untrue.

It's highly unlikely. I've covered that. As an SK, I almost can't win.

*shakes head*

I think we're dealing with 3 town, 2 scum, 1 SK. you, as the SK, will be trying to get a mafioso lynched today so that you can kill the other in the hope that he doesn't shoot you. What's so hard about that?

There's a Roleblocker. I'd have to lynch him. And I don't think I can because I'm not sure it's hellhound. I think you are the Mafia Doc though.

and if there's only one mafioso, and one SK, it's even more likely you could win. All you're doing is playing down the SK's winning odds to make yourself seem town. That's the logical fallacy. Also the fact that you think an SK could be trusted to work alongside the town is bizzare as well. "well if you do prove me to be the SK, I promise I can play with the town too :3"

First of all, how am I playing it down? I've listed every possible scenario I can think of here. Second of all, I made no such promise. I simply said that if I were the SK, the town would be better off keeping me around. Mafia would have to kill me at night if they don't want me to win, right? So again, how does it help to lynch me if I'm SK?

anyways you say 2 docs can't exist, yet you say a roleblocker must exist as your kill didn't occur last night. So if you say there must be an RB why can't there be 2 docs?

Because 2 Docs would be town-aligned while a Roleblocker would be Mafia aligned, duh. That's just a fucking dumb question.

language padré

No dice.

you're missing the point anyways. I know an RB would be scum aligned, I'm not as stupid as you're making me out to be. Your story is that a scum RB exists which stopped your kill last night. this may be true and all, yet you also say 2 docs is broken and therefore I should be lynched, however once you accept that scum have an RB, then 2 docs is no-longer broken. So your case just fell apart. again.

Completely and utterly wrong. Two-shot Tracker, White Mage, Doctor, and Odd Night Vig against a Goon, Roleblocker, and what, another goon? Nope, not happening. The scenario you are describing is utterly ridiculous. A Rleblocker does not make two protective roles not broken, especially when one of them lasts for two nights. Your argument is still utter shit.

My theory still is that you either puposefuly NK'd last night to incriminate myself,

That's not particularly incriminating.

or tried to kill nocase, who I protected.

Why would I ever target nocase? If I were SK, then I'd obviously be trying to get scum out of the way.

Both would make sense. The first probably moreso.

Not really. Both seem dumb. And funny that you're not even acknowledging a Roleblocker here when you say that two Docs is balanced by a Roleblocker.

I already explained this, but I'll do so again. I thought for certain that Zdenek was scu8m, based on his own actions. For starters, I didn't like where his votes had been for the previous days. Day 1 he didn't vote Tick and Day 2 he voted nintendoaddict. Then Day 3 he voted you, which seemed like bussing to me. This post was the last straw. It wasn't that he wanted to lynch me, it was the certainty with which he stated that we'd win if we did it, when if any two of those people weren't scum, we'd actually lose. He left no room for contingency or chance for any other scum, he just stated that doing that meant we would win. From there, as I stated before, he attempted to discredit me rather than convince me he was town. His Vig ploy earlier also seemed like he was setting up to claim Vig at some point to me, which I knew was impossible.

Uhm.

No Offense.

But you did the exact same thing, guaranteeing a win if we lynched Scum RB zdenek, and you'd vig scum TS.

sooo

That's not completely true. The difference there is that I said if Zdenek was Roleblocker, wed win. Obviously, I ended up being wrong, which I admit. Like I said, if you honestly don't think I'm town, you can lynch me. But I'm town and I'm trying to prove that I am.

But you did the exact same thing, guaranteeing a win if we lynched Scum RB zdenek, and you'd vig scum TS.

this is true

HL basically claimed scum after the zdnek flip with all his

false promises

:

I was mistaken, but it wasn't the same thing at all.

@Town:

If Zdenek and TS don't flip scum and I'm not dead tomorrow, then feel free to lynch me

if you honestly believe I'm town. For today, humor me and

I guarantee victory

. What is the worst that can happen?

We can mislynch a townie, but it's not gonna put us in MyLo if we do or anything

. You give this a shot and we can end this right now

and if not,

then Zdenek is probably right and I'm scum that must be lynched tomorrow, right? It's win-win

.

addressing the bolded parts

bolded 1: zdnek didn't flip scum so sure.
bolded 2: ??? where is it?
bolded 3: WE ARE IN MYLO
bolded 4: ok, you've promised here we can lynch you if zdnek flipped town so that's exactly what we'll do. This 'lynch me if I'm wrong' business is scummy wifom

1. Way to not read the whole thing. I said if you honestly don't think I'm town. (Technically I said if you honestly think I'm town, but that was an obvious typo, so whatever)

2. As you can tell, I was wrong about Zdenek, so I couldn't take you out.

3. Yes, I apparently miscalculated.

4. That was when I thought we weren't in MyLo. Lynching me now would lose uss the game.

Lynch me tomorrow, sure. My powers are useless after today anyway because I'm guaranteed to die tonight if I'm telling the truth. Vig or SK, it doesn't really matter, does it? Either way, there's zero chance that mafia will leave me alive through tonight, because I'm a threat to their victory condition. You want me dead? It's done. I'm gone, no matter what. If both TS and Zenek flip town and I'm not killed, then I must be scum right? So you can lynch me then. But doing it now is beyond stupid. Just lynch Zdenek, I'll Vig TS, and we can end this game. Stop being thickheaded.

also, this quote is amusing in retrospect of HL being alive and zdnek flipping town. I could bold the whole thing. The 'lynch me tommorow,' 'I'm guaranteed to die tonight' and the parts about zdnek are the highlights.

Yeah, because it's not like scum wouldn't try to use those words as an excuse to mislynch me or anything.

@Everyone

: We need to lynch scum back to back. If I'm the SK, scum are going to have to kill me if they don't want me to win. I fucked up yesterday and I admit that, but we need to pull our shit together or we lose. Timeater, this especially means you. Regardless of how much I fucked up yesterday, we can still come back from this.

[Hikari Link]

Maruchan

What about him?

[Hikari Link]

QUIT ACTING LIKE A FUCKING DOWN SYNDROME KID ITS A FUCKING SCUMTELL

What are you talking about?

[Hikari Link]

K im done for the night have fun

But what about Maruchan? What were you saying?

[Hikari Link]

god i'm not even playing this game and am still not fucking retarded enough to lynch zdenek like everyone else here is.

So fucking helpful. Anyway, we need aTS or possibly hellhound lynch today or we lose.

[Hikari Link]

and why are you self-voting like an idiot?

I'm not. My vote is on TS. Timeater and TS are voting for me. And the sorry isn't relevant, it's just cause he called me Hikari earlier.

[Hikari Link]

strike that. hellhound1 reads really town on an intuitive level.

@twistedspoon

, why do you have such a strong town read on me? and why did you protect me last night?

@timeater

, i wouldn't mind seeing a whole bunch of analysis if you're up for it. the abridged version works just as well.

So then if I understand correctly, you think Maruchan and I are scum? If so, where did the Vig kill come from? Also, why would I claim Vig as scum just to get Zdenek mislynched?

[Hikari Link]

HL is mafiosi

You're not even gonna bother pretending I'm SK anymore? It was a far stronger case. But then you couldn't get me mislynched, could you?

[Hikari Link]

Mafiosi includes SK to me

it's an easier way of saying mafia or SK. 'Anti-town role' is too long and vague as well

Mafiosk could work next time....

yeah, you can be Mafiosk..

Or I could be town and you're full of it. Also, SK is an important distinction. No particular reason for town to lynch SK while scum remain. Scum don't want an SK win anymore than town do, so they gotta kill him as quickly as possible. You've also still not explained how I could possibly be Mafia.

[Hikari Link]

Actually there is reason to lynch SK while scum remain and you're deflection from that point makes me wary of you.

I disagree. Unless the SK victory condition is within range, he has as much potential to help. SK and town both want scum dead. SK just wants town dead too.

With an SK alive, thats two kills a night, and SKs are usually night-kill immune, so they HAVE to be lynched. The fact that both scum AND town WANT them lynched simply makes it easier to get votes to lynch them.

SKs are usually night-kill immune? This is news to me.

No particular reason to lynch SK when scum live? You've got to be kidding me.

Well if they are indeed immune to the night kills, that's an entirely different story. I assumed that they could be killed like anyone else.

No particular reason for town to lynch SK while scum remain. Scum don't want an SK win anymore than town do, so they gotta kill him as quickly as possible.

nah, scum leave the SK alive for a bit (around now)so he can clear a few townies for them, or get lynched through wifom

Seems like a pretty terrible idea. He could take out Mafia, so that's bad. Just my take though. Leaving opposing facions alive seems dangerous.

and what's to say that the scum knew there was an SK? They might have thought you were an odd-night vig anyways.

I... what...? I'm not really sure what's being said here.

I still think you tried to kill nocase last night with you thinking he was mafiosi

Why would I ever kill him over you? That's stupid on so many levels. For starters, I've been saying nocase is town forever. Also, hellhound seems infinitely more likely to be scum. Most importantly, why would I be so retarded as to not put your ass in the ground?
Going to bed now. There's three ways this day will end:

1. TS Lynch. Continued MyLo. This is almost impossible with Timeater existing.

2. My lynch. Scum win.

3. No lynch. nocase/hellhound/Maruchan dies at night, and TS pushes a mislynch on me. Timeater is so far up TS's ass that there's no way he won't follow him and the scum partner will of course go along. Scum win.

So considering a town loss is pretty much decided and my lynch is almost inevitable, I'll take this opportunity to apologize to all of the town. This loss was on me because I pushed the Zdenek lynch yesterday. I was sure he was scum by the way he was acting, but I should've played it more cautiously and just continued with the TS lynch. It doesn't help that I miscalculated the situation. And to make matters worse, I completely didn't consider that the only way we could ever get a scum lynch at this point is with Timeater. I knew from the beginning he would be dangerous in MyLo, but I didn't consider him being this bad. So short of a miracle, I guess we lost. Good game guys. I'm still gonna fight to the last breath, because I don't give up, but it really probably is a lost cause.

[Hikari Link]

No particular reason for town to lynch SK while scum remain. Scum don't want an SK win anymore than town do, so they gotta kill him as quickly as possible.

nah, scum leave the SK alive for a bit (around now)so he can clear a few townies for them, or get lynched through wifom

Seems like a pretty terrible idea. He could take out Mafia, so that's bad. Just my take though. Leaving opposing facions alive seems dangerous.

In my last game with an SK it was the scum's tactic

Didn't say it wasn't, I said I think it's a terrible tactic.

and what's to say that the scum knew there was an SK? They might have thought you were an odd-night vig anyways.

I... what...? I'm not really sure what's being said here.

you said scum wouldn't leave an sk alive, but how are they to know you're an SK?

Well they don't know that because it's not true. They have me completely neutered with the Roleblcker right now, so even if it was true though, they wouldn't really care until their Roleblockler went.

I still think you tried to kill nocase last night with you thinking he was mafiosi

Why would I ever kill him over you?

That's stupid on so many levels. For starters,

I've been saying nocase is town forever.

Also,

hellhound seems infinitely more likely to be scum

. Most importantly,

why would I be so retarded as to not put your ass in the ground?

1) because you know I'm not scum
1b) because I look like great myslynch fodder due to my role
2) you can say he's town, but it's your gun that does the talking.
3) yeah, but it's easier to lynch hellhound than nocase as nocase looks townier
4) because you're not wasting a shot on me and think you can lynch me today.

1. That's a complete lie.

1b. It's not a mislynch when you are so clearly scum.

2. You're completely full of it. One minute you say I'm being Roleblocked, the next, my kill is being stopped by you.

3. But you said I thought he was scum. So why would I kill someone townier? There's nothing to indicate he isn't town.

4. Why would I think that

after

I got Zdenek mislynched? Do you think I'm stupid? I mean, do you honestly believe that I am some sort of idiot? I promised victory and 2 scum dead last night and ended up with a mislynch, so you think I'm gonna come back emptyhanded? How does that even help?

I disagree. Unless the SK victory condition is within range, he has as much potential to help. SK and town both want scum dead. SK just wants town dead too.

I believe every game is unique, but from what games I know of and from off-site experience the SK goal is to be the LAST alive, this means killing both mafioso and town, emphasis on the mafioso. Mafia can win with SK alive when town cannot, therefore it is within the mafia's best interest to get rid of it fast.

Example of an SK PM I have had in the past

Dap

Welcome, Maruchan.

You are

Dap

, the

Overprotective Teacher

. You’re the faculty member in charge of dealing with the launchies, the newest arrivals to Battle School. During recent months, the school seems to have gone completely crazy; students are physically assaulting each other in bathrooms and hallways, and Colonel Graff and Major Anderson have done nothing about it. The environment has become too dangerous for these children, even if they are geniuses. But you can save them! You can use your status as a teacher to

ice

one student every night, sending them back home to Earth, never to return to Battle School.

Additionally, if any students attempt to investigate you to discover who you are, their attempt will be unsuccessful.

Because you are taking matters into your own hands, none of the other faculty would approve.You are working alone in this endeavor.

You win when no students remain in Battle School, and you still remain at the School.

The game thread is here.

Please confirm via PM stating your role name and alignment. If you have questions about your role, please don’t hesitate to ask.

To clarify, you are a Serial Killer. You have one kill per night, and any investigations used on you will fail.

On Night One, your predecessor iced Lord Chronos.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Although you are correct that this particular SK was not night-kill immune, two other games I am in or have read through have had night-kill immune SKs. I believe it is more common for them to be nightkill immune than to not? Although I could be wrong.

The "No students" btw means everyone. I was the ONLY adult-role in the game, so therefore I had to kill scum and town to win. And like I said, from this standpoint, scum are more in-danger from me than town, as they are higher priority to get rid of. Town win condition requires all non-town to be dead, SK win condition requires all non-SK to be dead, and mafia win condition requires JUST town to be dead. Therefore the SK is the first priority for the mafia, and a high priority for the town too, since it gets rid of one more kill per night.

@Mod: IF you were to have an SK in this game, would you have made them night-kill immune? Feel free to state you refuse to answer this question

.

But that extra kill every night is basically useless when the town knows exactly where it is coming from. It's an opportunity to take out more scum at the risk of more villagers. It's safe to have around for about as long as it would be safe to have a Vig active.

@Maruchan

: You've seen me as a claimed PR before. You should understand how I operate by now. Question:
1. Do you believe that TS is the town Dc?

2. Why have you not cast a vote yet? Are you on the fence?

@Twistedspoon

: Right now you need to answer the following questions:
1. Why is it impossible for me to be the Vig? Give a thorough explanation.

2. Why is it impossible for you to be scum? "Because of my PM" is not a valid answer. What about your actions makes it impossible.

3. Is there a Roleblocker or not?

4. Why would I purposely kill only on Odd Nights if that was not my role?

5. How are there two town Protective roles and only a Two-shot investigative role?

@ Timeater

: Questions for you:
1. Is there any situation in which you would vote for TS?

2. When this game ends and TS is revealed as scum, will you keep your word and never post on this site again?

3. Why am I scum?

4. Why is TS town?

@nocase

: Questions for you:
1. Explain your reads thoroughly and how you came to the conclusion that only Maruchan and I could be scum.

[Hikari Link]

wise words

Thanks for the advice, but I don't let scum run around and make whatever wild claims they want.

I'm interested in why you find no need to quiz hellhound though

Because he's probably going to be replaced. I'll ask the new guy. On the upside, short of a town fuck up, I shouldn't have to worry about being mislynched.

1) It's not impossible. Like i've said I'm only 99.9% sure you're not. You're mafiosk in that scum have left you alive

And how does that stop me from being Vig? It's a perfect mislynch opportunity. Especially with Timeater alive. That's one townie built right in that you don't even have to try to sway.

and zdnek has pointed out numerous anti-vig tells

No he didn't. I refuted all of those nd you ignored the responses. Which is exactly what scum would do.

and betted his townie life that you weren't the vig.

What's your point? He thought I wasn't Vig, I thought he was Roleblocker. Clearly we were both mistaken. Why do you leave out the part where he was also certain you were scum? Or is that part of the story not important because then people might lynch you?

2) why is it impossible for me to be scum? How can anyone answer that question without either making themselves sound town (which any player would do) or without saying because of their role PM.

By providing examples of town things they did.

My play and analysis say I'm town,

They really don't.

as well as my meta.

Your meta is useless. You said yourself that you're evolving.

If you want to know why I'm town though you 're probably best off asking the others as even as scum I'd say my play has been town.

I'm inclined to disagree. You haven't played town since Day 1.

(but srsly, I know I'm town)

And I know you are a liar. But I won't hold it against you. It's your job.

3) there is probably an RB. I have been saying it from d2.

Then why so certain that I wasn't roleblocked?

If not there is a 'Black mage' or some other scum power.

You know there's no such thing. This is a normal game, meaning there can be only one wacky special role.

4) you or scum (if you are an SK)were either roleblocked or targeted protected player on nights when only one killed occurred.

Well that's pretty lucky, considering that the only time there were two protective roles is the night two kills happened.

Either this or you purposefully no-killed on non-odd nights to create a plausible fakeclaim of odd-night vig.

Why wouldn't I just claim normal Vig.

It makes sense since

No it doesn't. Not playing towards my win condition is all kinds of retarded.

odd-night SKs are incredibly rare and unfair and it would create a believeable and safe, fakeclaim.

Regular Vig is already perfectly believable.

5) scum could have powers. How about that roleblocker? I've been in more confusing setups anyways. Hoppster's mathamathia was a mini normal which screwed us over much worse than this.

It's not a confusing set up. I'll break it down for you:
2-Shot Tracker, White Mage, Odd Night Vig, and 7 Vanilla Townies vs. 1 Mafia Doc(?), 1 Mafia Roleblocker, and 1 Mafia Goon. Though admittedly you might just be the Roleblocker and you claimed Doc for reasons I can't begin to comprehend.

Here it's a simple case of 2 docs to at least one scum RB.

No it isn't. Quit calling the White Mage a Doc. It's not a fucking believable story because the fucking White Mage already performs the duty of two docs.

I wouldn't call a tracker an investigative role anyways.

It's the nearest thing to one we had.

[Hikari Link]

Blip with ex. Apologies.

Please, quiz away.

1. Why aren't you scum?

2. Who do you think is scum?

3. What is your take on the current situation?

[Hikari Link]

No matter what I say, you're just going to make shit up, since you aren't bound by things like logic. I'm done with you. I'm leaving the rest of this game entirely in the hands of Timeater, because we're not going to get you lynched without his support. The thing is, nothing I say could possibly garner his support. From this point onward, it's just gonna be your scum parner going through the motions and coming up with a "valid" reason to vote for me. From there it will come down to whether or not I'm lynched today or tomorrow.

[Hikari Link]

appeal to timeater much?

No appeal, just a statement of fact. Without Timeater, the town can't win. It's math. You and your scum partner and him make 3 of the 6 players and none of you won't vote for me. But only one of you is town. If he refuses to help the town, the game is lost.

Just consider the possibility that you were wrong about me. You don't accept that, just like you didn't accept zdnek town.

Did you just admit that I thought Zdenek was scum? And you can't possibly be town. There are too many town PRs for you to exist as town. I refuse to believe that there is a White Mage, a 2-Shot Tracker, a Doc, and an Odd Night Vig.

anyways, did you just claim scum giving up?

Twisting my words much? That's me saying that I'm done wasting my time here. This is my last post here until the end of the game unless Timeater comes to his senses and votes for you.

From there it will come down to whether or not I'm lynched today or tomorrow.

today

It's quite likely, yes. I'd honestly prefer I be mislynched today rather than tomorrow anyway if that's what is going to happen. Like I said before, Timeater will not die tonight and since he's completely in your pocket, he will vote for me tomorrow. With your partner, that makes three and that is the majority.

[Hikari Link]

i know how to explain my reads. i just am not interested in doing so. also i enjoy watching you squirm, maruchan, because you're scum in real life.

That seems a bit harsh and uncalled for. Please explain your reads though.

[Hikari Link]

OH HOORAY

MORE TIM NOT EXPLAINING HIS WEAKASSSHIT AND SAYING ITS CUZ HE HAS A HUGEASS POST TO MAKE THAT HE FAILS TO MAKE.

Maruchan, stop being an asshat. Whether you like it or not, Timeater is town and we're going to need him to get a win. All of us have to work together or scum will win.

[Hikari Link]

Link. Maruchan is not town.

I'm going to disagree, but I'm willing to compromise. Today we take nocase out and tomorrow we discuss between Maruchan and TS, deal?

UNVOTE: Twistedspoon, VOTE: nocase

[Hikari Link]

This was supposed to be posted a few minutes back.

Link, please re-claim and include who you vigged each night, or attempted to vig. No one else answer for him.

Twisted, please re-claim and include who you protected each night, or attempted to protect. No one else answer for him.

Nocase, please full-claim now and include any night actions you have done.

1. Zdenek

- CONFIRMED Vanilla Townie

2.Regfan

- CONFIRMED 2 shot tracker

3. don_johnson

- CONFIRMED Vanilla Townie

4. Hellhound1

CLAIMED TOWNIE

5. Timeater

- CONFIRMED Vanilla Townie

6. Hikari Link

CLAIMED VIG

7. hahonryuu

- CONFIRMED Vanilla Townie

8. nintendoaddict1

- CONFIRMED Strong Doctor

9. Empking

- CONFIRMED Vanilla Townie

10. Twistedspoon

CLAIMED DOC

11. The Tick

- CONFIRMED Scum

12. Maruchan

CLAIMED TOWNIE

13. Nocase (who replaced Ankamius, who replaced DemonHybrid)

NO CLAIM

We have 5 confirmed vanilla townies. Dont give me any bullshit about me not being confirmed. I am fucking undisputed town. If you argue against that, its dumb and scummy. There are 2 other claimed Vanilla townies. One of them is scum. There are not seven vanilla townies in a setup with a strong doc. A guaranteed scum is selected between hellhound and maruchan.

UNVOTE

I'm an Odd Night Vig. I hit Empking the first night and attempted to hit TwistedSpoon last night, but I was Roleblocked.

Link are you seeing what I'm seeing

If you are seeing nocase as scum, then yes. But that's clearly not it. I assume it's Maruchan callng you not town, which is obviously wrong too.

Vote: Maruchan

This is the only reasonable lynch for today.

Goodnight.

Sorry, but I'm gonna have to disagree. Scum team of nocase and Twistedspoon. We can lynch one or the other today, but anything else is a town loss.

let me get this straight. in a different game he fosed you. then he posted in this game implying that you were town in all three.

am i missing something?

No.

He thought me town in all three.

THen in the most prevalent of the three, he began to get suspicious of me.

He then got slightly-suspicious of Maruchan in all three.

I then flipped town in the one he got suspicious of me in.

After this IDK what his reads on me were in the other two.

(inb4 discussing ongoings: One is ended, and idk if I am still in the third with him or not?)

so basically hikari is a lying sack of shit.

1. Don't call me Hikari.

2. I don't see how you get that.

[Hikari Link]

OH HOORAY

MORE TIM NOT EXPLAINING HIS WEAKASSSHIT AND SAYING ITS CUZ HE HAS A HUGEASS POST TO MAKE THAT HE FAILS TO MAKE.

Maruchan, stop being an asshat. Whether you like it or not, Timeater is town and we're going to need him to get a win. All of us have to work together or scum will win.

I understand the work together part.

which is why I ask for explanations rather than

"DIS IS HOW IT IS IM RYTE YUR WRONG LETZGOBRO FOLLO DA LEADER" shit he is playing.

But you aren't doing it in a very polite way. There's really no reason to create animosity with fellow townies. We really can't afford a mislynch right now just because you want to take a shot at him. So let's all calm down and be reasonable. Maruchan, what are your current scum reads? Same question to hellhound.

[Hikari Link]

Sure bra

Vote: Nocase

Okay. Next question. Where do we stand on TS? If I were to be killed tonight and flipped Vig, would that be enough to indicate to you that TS is lying? I don't ask that because I think it'll happen to night, I ask because I feel like you and I can have a real discourse tomorrow about Maruchan or TS and I don't want to take the chance that we can't have that discussion because I'm killed tonight. Just a precaution, as I'm sure you understand.

OH HOORAY

MORE TIM NOT EXPLAINING HIS WEAKASSSHIT AND SAYING ITS CUZ HE HAS A HUGEASS POST TO MAKE THAT HE FAILS TO MAKE.

Maruchan, stop being an asshat. Whether you like it or not, Timeater is town and we're going to need him to get a win. All of us have to work together or scum will win.

I understand the work together part.

which is why I ask for explanations rather than

"DIS IS HOW IT IS IM RYTE YUR WRONG LETZGOBRO FOLLO DA LEADER" shit he is playing.

But you aren't doing it in a very polite way. There's really no reason to create animosity with fellow townies. We really can't afford a mislynch right now just because you want to take a shot at him. So let's all calm down and be reasonable. Maruchan, what are your current scum reads? Same question to hellhound.

I tried being polite and asking for the reads from him nicely. Multiple times i nfact.

Check my ISO.

He still refuses.

Scumreads are TS POSSIBLE you, but still IDK. And at this point I think it is rather beneficial to keep you alive even if you are SK, and not sure who TS's scumbuddy is. either tim or hellhound. both of which TS seems to have likelybussed. I want to say hellhound because tim would never be this fucking buddy up to TS, but I could be wrong. the ol wifom argument and whatnot.

So you aren't seeing nocase? Just look at these last few posts from him.

TS you are going to have to throw aside your notions about DH/Ank/Case being town because of the D1 blow up. That could have happened to any alignment. Hell, it'd be quite good if it was scum just for those reasons.

Also, the animosity between nocase and maruchan in the last few pages reads as very fake and possibly set up to create a feeling of differing alignments. Also, Nocase's LOLBPCLAIM is very typical and very scummy.

THank you for actualyl explaining your vote (at least slightly)

Link, no matter what tonight, I think you need to test the bulletproof claim.

If he's town he had no reason to lie, if he's scum BAM. byebye


wait scratch that, if we tell you to go after him scum will also for a double-hit on him. UGH.

I hate that scum can see us talk but we cant see them. -.- being town is so hard.

I'm Odd Night and there's a Roleblocker, bro. Also, even if there weren't, we are in MyLo and with the scum kill if nocase was town (which he isn't), we'd lose.

You dont seem to understand that it is not the towns obligation to explain everything to the scum.

Chill out, both of you. I told you, we don't need to let this devolve into a town on town fight.

Almost every post Maruchan makes is scummy, so honestly if I were to quote wall him it'd take too much time.

That is how Maruchan is, I'm afraid. I've seen him flip in two games as town where he was as scummy as this, if not more so.

I'd like to suggest "Doc" on hellhound tonight and this nocase lynch. Here's my reasoning:

Timeater: Believes the TS claim. He probably won't be killed tonight.
Maruchan: A scum suspect of some. Good mislynch. If he died, it would be one less person to mislynch.
Me: Flipping Vig would essentially invalidate the TS calim, so it's not going to happen.
TS: Can't because he's the "Doctor". Also, he's scum, so it won't happen.

hellhound is the only one I can see being killed without TS losing much. Of course, TS is likely to say that he protected Timeater, but I think if we can agree that hellhound should be the target, he'll have no choice. Of course, if nocase isn't the Roleblocker, he'll probably just claim to have been blocked.

What does everyone who isn't nocase or TS think of this?

lynch me tomorrow. I like to wait for replies to questions kaithnx

Maruchan, please trust Timeater for once, okay?

[Hikari Link]

ok, i'm not bulletproof. i'm vt. the lack of convo about it other than timeater's stuff is disappointing, although this solidifies my town read on him. let's get hikari for lying. not sure why everyone is ignoring that, either.

Seriously, stop with the Hikari shit. Also, hypocrisy points to you for saying I should be lynched for a lie that you have yet to point out right after admitting to a lie yourself.

[Hikari Link]

No I don't have a problem with voting someone, as I DO now see nocase as getting quite scummy, what with lying about VT for "lulzreactionztstng", and then all the hopeless twisting of my words, but I wanted to see how he answered. I don't see how this is either trust. nor distrust in timeater.

Although I would have to agree with you know, whether or not you are SK, hellhound is unlikely scum due to TS bussing scum d1 AND d2 seems highly unlikely. I also agree with all your reasons as to why everyone else would be unlikely night targets.

Unfortunately I have come to the conclusion timeater is ubertowntrollextraordinaire. So he is unlikely scumpartner.

What is nocase at? since a votecount hasn't been posted lately, I don't want to make him L1 nor hammer without him answering where he "saw you lying"

L-2. This is great. I'm really relieved now because it looks like we're finally getting our shit together. Also, stop with the backhanded shots at Timeater. He makes some decent points about your scuminess, but you also have some legitimate reasons for your actions. Nonetheless, you should note what is being said about you in terms of scumminess so you can stop doing those things in future games.

[Hikari Link]

lynch me tomorrow. I like to wait for replies to questions kaithnx

Responding with a challenge is scummy because of where the game is at. It is not a genuine and pro-town response to say "hey, lynch me leeewwlszz!" when we're probably in mylo. Second sentence is a case of disingenuousness and ultimately a pointless stance of "sticking to your principles" - this falls flat because we're utterly beyond any trivial bullshit you have to offer. "You like to do X" is a way of establishing any town reads players may have on you while attacking me. A scummy post.

I was basically telling you to fuck off and not tell me what to do in a trolly manner.

This post is interpreted as this:

I don't give a fuck about your opinion of me or what yo uthink, I won't vote nocase until he answers my question.



Don't like it? Deal with it.

What did I tell you about not being an asshat. Timeater can be sharp with people, true, but that doesn't mean you need to go right back at him. We're finally getting some semblance of unity, so instead of throwing insults and curses at him, please try to calmly explain your position to him in a civilized manner. I know you may be frustrated, but don't let it control you.

[Hikari Link]

Yes, I know he has points, but his gameplay of "fuck you you're scum i don't have to do anything for you" makes me react to him in manners I seem appropriate for the situation. AS has been demonstrated.

And I realize this, but you should try to control your temper for the good of the town.

Okay. Next question. Where do we stand on TS? If I were to be killed tonight and flipped Vig, would that be enough to indicate to you that TS is lying? I don't ask that because I think it'll happen to night, I ask because I feel like you and I can have a real discourse tomorrow about Maruchan or TS and I don't want to take the chance that we can't have that discussion because I'm killed tonight. Just a precaution, as I'm sure you understand.

I probably will be killed tonight after we lynch Scumcase. I was serious about what I said about TS. I will never post on MS again if he's scum. But in order to more properly understand your question I need to review the night deaths (its a bitch going through the thread).

Mafia Roleblocker + Mafia Goon + Mafiasomethingstrong

I have a partially fucked up reason for suspecting Maru + Case, but I'd rather not say. And no, I will not say more about that.

My theory is Mafia Doctor. I won't ask you to say anymore, but please just consider the possibility of TS scum. ANd if you vote him tomorrow and he flips scum, I certainly am not going to hold you to never posting again. We'll burn that bridge when we come to it, but don't let your faith in him be too absolute. If you acknowledge me as town, you really should consider that he may be scum

explain?

Concern instead of mockery

That's a common Maruchan reaction though.

[Hikari Link]

Explain better please? I still don't quite see it

Grasping desperately at any attempt to discredit me. Already realizing what my stance is towards information is and is seeing it as 'unfair', he grasps and grasps for any sort of hold on the situation.

But he's not really trying to discredit you, is he? He's not calling you scum or anything. He's just being a bit dickish and defensive, which is understandable in MyLo.

@HL

Maruchan has worked very hard the last few pages to stay in line with his established meta - but thats just it. He's tried. Its fake.

He's played more or less the same all game. It doesn't feel fake at all to me.

My theory is Mafia Doctor. I won't ask you to say anymore, but please just consider the possibility of TS scum. ANd if you vote him tomorrow and he flips scum, I certainly am not going to hold you to never posting again. We'll burn that bridge when we come to it, but don't let your faith in him be too absolute. If you acknowledge me as town, you really should consider that he may be scum

I'm not big on the mafia doc theory. Doesn't feel balanced.

I wouldn't call it that unbalanced. Don't forget our White Mage and that we have a Vig. And a Tracker to boot. I'd call a Roleblocker and Doc approximately balanced. And there's no guarantees of absolute balance anyway. But I'll admit that there may be no Doc, but considering the roles we have and the fact that TS claimed Doc, it just seems more plausible to me than two Goons and a Roleblocker. I guess they coould have a Role Cop, but that's really the only other normal scum role that makes sense to me.

[Hikari Link]

The more information I give him, e.g the more I explain myself about my reads - the more he has to work with and bullshit with. And he has as good as called me scum a few times the last few pages with his refusal to accept me as confirmed town. I dont see dickish at all. I see fake bravado.

No, it's true. Even I accept you as town, but you simply aren't confirmed. Nobody is confirmed town accept to themselves.

There are subtleties to the read. I agree that he has more or less been scummy the entire game. Its just that when he contradicts his nature and generally exhibits strange motivations I am pointed towards a scumchan conclusion.

Well that depends on your definition of his "nature", doesn't it? For me, the biggest tell that hellhound and Maruchan aren't scum is that they haven't voted for me today. It was all too easy for scum to push a mislynch on me earlier today and end the game, but those guys didn't. The reason nocase doesn't get a pass for that is his general scumminess. Also, he came in kind of late for that. And the reason you don't get scum points is because it was entirely within my predictions that you'd vote for me.

Did we have a double kill night besides reg+emp? Cant remember

No, we didn't. Remember, I've only had two opportunities to use my power and of those, I was roleblocked one night.

[Hikari Link]

@Link - When everyone agrees on something, its confirmed. Everyone has said I'm town now, more or less.

No it's not. That's not how confirmation works. At least, that's not how confirmation works for me. You could just have a different definition.

1. Zdenek - CONFIRMED Vanilla Townie
2.Regfan - CONFIRMED 2 shot tracker
3. don_johnson - CONFIRMED Vanilla Townie
4. Hellhound1 CLAIMED TOWNIE
5. Timeater - CONFIRMED Vanilla Townie
6. Hikari Link CLAIMED VIG
7. hahonryuu - CONFIRMED Vanilla Townie
8. nintendoaddict1 - CONFIRMED Strong Doctor
9. Empking - CONFIRMED Vanilla Townie
10. Twistedspoon CLAIMED DOC
11. The Tick - CONFIRMED Scum
12. Maruchan CLAIMED TOWNIE
13. Nocase - CLAIMED TOWNIE (but first one-shot-bp lol)

The setup:

Oddnight Vig
Normal Doc
Strong Doc
2 Shot Tracker
6 VTs

Mafia Goon
Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia X

SK was a red herring originally devised by me (directed at tick) as a device to see how the mafia responded to the possibility, and if they would exploit it and how far they would exploit it. Pretty sure there is no SK in this game.

Nocase is a good lynch considering he fucked up his claim and how he LOL FLAILED after I brought down the TE-heat on him.

I'm gonna have to disagree with the possibility of that set up. Also, now that you've stated that TS could be a Doc and me a Vig, I'm probably going to die tonight, because if nothing can possibly get you to turn against TS, he has no reason to kill you and can never be lynched. Would you please for a moment consider that he is scum? Look, this isn't a scum ploy. If I really wanted to try to manipulate you, I'd just let TS go and push for a different mislynch. But because you are a townie that will never vote for him, he as scum is invincible and cannot be lynched.

[Hikari Link]

You're being obtuse. Semantics. I know how it works. I'm telling you how I feel. Towniness is about shared belief systems and trust.

No, I'm really not being obtuse. I'm just covering bases. You aren't confirmed town technically, but you aren't scum either and even if you were, it wouldn't matter. If we lynch nocase and he's not scum, we lose. But he's probably scum, so we're fine there. And there's almost no chance you are scum and TS isn't. TS is scum. I can tell almost for certain based on our exchange today. I've dealt with scum before who have acted exactly like that in my native forum. So quick to discredit every word I said, to come up with wild and improbable scenarios, to nitpick every single thing I say and twist it against me, to push and push to the edge of my patience, to speak as though he is the epitome of town and I am worse than Hitler. I've seen it before, just as fierce and it was from scum. Every time it was from scum.

And haven't you learned anything about me? I am not afraid to throw around my vote. What I say and what I really think at any given time may be radically different.

I realize these things, but you can also be quite stubborn on things and if I die, I'm not sure who else can talk you into the TS lynch. The fact is, the town absolutely needs you and everyone else united on a nocase and TS lynch t win and you are the wild card. Everyone else, I can see lynching TS, but if I'm not there to talk it through with you, I can't be anywhere near as sure. I mean, just look at how Maru acts with you. He'd never get you to vote TS. And hellhound isn't around nearly enough and I know far too little about him to trust him with the job. And so I need to try to make sure that even if I die tonight, you'll still lynch TS tomorrow.

[Hikari Link]

I'll play it by ear to the best of my non troll abilities

Well, since you apparently don't think I'm scum, would it be acceptable to request that TS target me with his Doc powers? I'd be his greatest threat going into tomorrow if he's scum, so he'd definitely want me dead. It means hellhound will probably die, but if I should die and nocase is the Roleblocker, then he's confirmed scum.

[Hikari Link]

TS you are going to have to throw aside your notions about DH/Ank/Case being town because of the D1 blow up. That could have happened to any alignment. Hell, it'd be quite good if it was scum just for those reasons.

well I trust you timeater.... and that claim is bizzare
VOTE: nocase

If I'm correct that's L-1

Maruchan is probably a scum. I can't see him hammering nocase at all
Hellhound has a chance too though...

So you gonna protect me tonight?

[Hikari Link]

Or you just gonna ignore me so you have an excuse when I die tonight because you never agreed to protect me...?

[Hikari Link]

I'll protect you tonight. Your reasons make sense

Excellent. Very reasonable of you.

[Hikari Link]

After what happened yesterday how could you not lynch TS?

Seriously guys.

Because I knew Timeater would never go for it and like I said, we needed the whole town together to lynch. We probably would've mislynched nocase tomorrow anyway. For whatever reason I he started playing as poorly as possible today and he did everything he could to wash away all of his towncred.

Well played, Maruchan. I certainly wasn't expecting you, sue to your general subtlety. TS, well played Day 1. After that, the only thing that kept you alive was Timeater.

[Hikari Link]

After what happened yesterday how could you not lynch TS?

Seriously guys.

Because I knew Timeater would never go for it and like I said, we needed the whole town together to lynch. We probably would've mislynched nocase tomorrow anyway. For whatever reason I he started playing as poorly as possible today and he did everything he could to wash away all of his towncred.

Well played, Maruchan. I certainly wasn't expecting you, sue to your general subtlety. TS, well played Day 1. After that, the only thing that kept you alive was Timeater.

I generally agree with this. TS played a good D1.

I agree to some extent

D1 I was sane but then I got so worked up about the fakeclaim I had planned d2 it almost ruined the game for me. I forgot the golden rule of never gambit as scum (although as regfan will say it has paid off for me before)

we made some slips, maruchan knowing we had no pre-game talk and tick dying for no-good reason were setbacks, but I feel I/we snatched victory from the jaws of defeat

it's unfair to entirely blame town for our win I feel

Sorry, but it really was almost entirely poor play on our part. You never should have walked away from Day 2 alive. I claim responsibility for Day 3 Zdenek did some dumb shit to turn a minor suspicion into a major one. Day 4, nocase literally flushed all of his towncred down the toilet for no reason at all and I knew I had no way of lynching you when you'd never listen to reason. The only truly brilliant part of your play was Maruchan. I might've been able to catch him tomorrow if not for the nocase fiasco and if Timeater could be made to listen, but I would've had to stop and look at it closely and even then it would only be a maybe.

[Hikari Link]

still, confirmed scum living until the endgame takes some credit

It wasn't easy getting timeater on my side

It was extremely easy from the looks of it. He decided your claim was legit for whatever asinine reason and held firmly to that belief to the end.

[Hikari Link]

TSpoon made so many scummy posts the last 2 days that I never would have let him survive.

This town was the shittiest shit I've seen in a long time. Regfan msned me after he died and called my attention to this game. I had hiraki but not TS, but I feel like TSs claim should have been grounds for an obvious lynch. Mafia didn't play super, but they did play well an they did play to the tune the town wanted to hear.

Anyway, whatever. I just don't get what the fuck made you guys hold on to TS for so long.

Good luck getting Timeater to lynch TS today.

[Hikari Link]

TSpoon made so many scummy posts the last 2 days that I never would have let him survive.

This town was the shittiest shit I've seen in a long time. Regfan msned me after he died and called my attention to this game. I had hiraki but not TS, but I feel like TSs claim should have been grounds for an obvious lynch. Mafia didn't play super, but they did play well an they did play to the tune the town wanted to hear.

Anyway, whatever. I just don't get what the fuck made you guys hold on to TS for so long.

Good luck getting Timeater to lynch TS today.

I don't think it will be too difficult.

Did you see the same Timeater that I did? Cause that guy is stubborn as a mule.

I had hikari as scum* so I was wrong there but after the mass claim he was obvtown. Hrn. You guys are so silly.

Please stop calling me Hikari.