[Mini 1205] Tough Guy Mafia - Game Over!

[LobsterCatapult]

sorry, back, ill post tonight after work!

[tarsonisocelot]

Wicked is null for us. I know cop+vig seems OP but for now we should really leave the cop claim alone. Honestly, the only reason the vig got shot before the cop is because the vig was suspicious of scum (otherwise, why kill the vig). Look who his vigpool was-the only remaining living and unconfirmed player is the guy we are voting.

This is interesting.

But we are lynching Wicked today. End of story.

I hate this post. You're tunnelling majorly.

What about Ethos' post is interesting and why?

[Amor]

Magua replaces YankCane151. And with that I think all of the empty slots are actually full.

[LobsterCatapult]

The scum team are Lobster and Avasthe, there's so much god damn proof showing so as well including Friends soft distancing with Avsas when he replaced in. Avas's acknowledgement and arguing wth anyone else who FoS's her but her avoidance of doing so with Friend. The voting and bandwagonging that occured throughout the later half of day one and the fact that Lobster stated that she FoS'ed Avas and was happy hammering yet never voted her once throughout the entire day. The fact that Lobster came straight into today saying not lynching cop is the best bet but her quick change of mind when an illogical argument was put forward. There's also multiple individual scum-tells that each has dropped such as Avas decline of activity and play other than changing of votes at the later half of day one and Vifams interactions with Lobster stating that her posts were "off' but never voting her.

Honestly, just ISO the both of them, read their comments directed or about each other and their actual play in the game. Lobster voted just about everyone in the room with the exception of Vifam and Avasthe despite having them both as scum-reads at one point or another when a wagon was forming on them and Lobsters urging Vifam to come back when he was getting voted at the end of the day while voting Rainbow.

Heck, Mastin I know that you've got it stuck in your mind that Avas is town and that Wicked is scum but I really rather not have a repeat of Mini 1180, it's the very last thing I want to occur. So please for the love of god join us on either the Lobster or Avas lynch and have Wicked investigate one more time tonight. If somehow we're wrong on Lobster and Avas and they flip town (Which I'm close enough to guaranteeing that won't) then you can deal with Wicked tomorrow after he's outed his report.

vote avast

i agree with you about yank and hez. that was few pages that really didnt need to happen.

i disagree with you about your obvtown reads. what has el simo done that is necessarily obvtown? and why is tarson only a slightly town read?

are you saying me being on wicked's wagon was a foolish one?

do you think that 3/4 major late day wagons yesterday were scum? (wicked,avast,rdash,vifam)? (personally i think its most likely 2/4).

also applying vifam's overall wishy-washiness to me, doesnt seem like a solid reason to think of me as scum at all. your case on me is based all on interactions with avast, who just got replaced, and again was wishy-washy all over the place.

i never said that i would hammer avast. i said i would hammer vifam for the sake of deadline because at the time i thought he was newbtown, i was wrong.

if there was scum on the vifam wagon, who would it be?

because, i would find it very interesting if not one of his buddies was on his lynch personally for the town cred. i need to go back and look at this.

i never said we shouldn't lynch wicked, (i voted for el simo thinking he was/could be his buddy) i said we shoudlnt quicklynch him, and im not convinced he is scum, but with so many replacements in this game, being afraid this game would die, and his lynch would gain information, and no i dont think he is that townie. do i think he is obv-scum....ehh...no. but do i think my vote is where it should be right now. sure.

also, voted everyone in the room? aside from rvs d1, i voted: confid, HH, wicked, Rdash, bob. thats 5/12. less than half. good job.

your case on me is going the wrong direction. take a step back, and really look at what ive contributed and see if its scum. your relation-tells on me are a waste of time. so far the only scummy stuff ive done is...not voting avast, not hammering vifam. cool. thats all wifom, btw.

[Ethos]

Our stong town-read on El Simo revolves around his attitude and actions throughout this game matching up perfectly with our previous town-meta on him furthermore his interactions with Vifam make him highly unlikely to be scum. Our town read on Tarson is much weaker for the sole reason that I found a few of her posts suspicious whereas I found others to be town motivated therefore the 'leaning town' read.

Yes, I'm saying that I believe the Wicked wagon is a bad one, that should be obvious when I said that Wicked shouldn't be lynched today so I'm struggling to see why you would even ask that question. I never said that 3/4 of the wagons at the end of yesterday were scum, nice work attempting to misrepresent what I said though. Interactions are a big part of the game, it's not just Vifams reactions and interactions with you, but yours wth him and with Avas slot. The fact that Avas just got replaced is completely meaningless and wishy washyness is a scum-tell so if you believe that Avas was wishy washy you would be perfectly fine and content to join us on their lynch.

You did state intenton to hammer Avas and you attempting to deny it makes it that much easier to prove you as mafia, so for that thank you. In Post #454 you state that you FoS Avas, that you believe her lynch wll get a lot of information and that she's a scummy bastard, then state then ask if she's at L-1 before voting Rainbowdash instead of Avas. Voting five out of the twelve people in the game is a lot, sure counting it up it's not majority but it's a significant number and considering the sheer number of people you voted the fact that your vote never landed on Avas or Vifam is highly revealing. I've taken a step back, relooked at my case and your refrainment from voting Vifam and Avas isn't wifom at all, heck it's not even near the defnition of wifom but nice attempt to decredit the case against you by throwing a catch-phrase like wifom out there.

There seriously needs to be more votes on Lobster or Avas.

[Magua]

I'm here, and I'm reading.

[Ethos]

I'm here, and I'm reading.

Great. This just went from a town win to a town loss.

[el simo]

Our stong town-read on El Simo revolves around his attitude and actions throughout this game matching up perfectly with our previous town-meta on him

I don't recall this.

Was this one of the games I flaked on and replaced out?

---

Yeah I plan on rereading over avast and Lob this weekend. Sorry for my inactivity, I'm absolutely swamped with work atm, teaching a school while attending university (in which we are currently doing mid-terms for) does not make for lots of free time. How ever this is the last week of uni before they break up, so while I will still be teaching I should have a lot more free time from the uni break.

[lewarcher82]

This game is horrific... I am havign a terrible time at re-reading, and I don't wanna post a wall, though I generally do. I'd fall asleep in the middle of the post. Please ask me questions and I will answer them.

I don't wanna go on with the cop-discussion... can only be dangerous. We will save possible cc's for later in game, when a hypothetical real-cop will have some better reason to cc and we will also have an idea if we have any hot smoking iron way to night confirm some of the claims. For now wagon analysis by lobster seems convincing to me. And el simo still looks scum. Even if wicked was a scum fakeclaimer, his move of FoSing el simo but not confirming it can be consistent with a scumbus that does not want to end in a lynch.

vote: el simo

[el simo]

Struggling to follow that post lew..

My hypothetical scum buddy, Wicked, FoS me instead of voting because he didn't want to lynch me, even though there never was a wagon on me, and you don't know his role yet? Huh?

[Ethos]

El Simo, you played with one of our heads in Mini 1061 and the other one was actually spectating and following the entire game.

Lewarcher continues to prove that he replaced into a scum slot, his 'catch-up post' is nonsensical and doesn't involve any legitimate reads nor attempts at any. People need to get of the "LolWickedislynch" mindset and move their vote to join us, alternatively if they somehow are uncomfortable voting Lewarcher they can vote Lobster and we'll join them there.

[tarsonisocelot]

Ethos, what would you describe the attitude of town-el simo as? And what actions has he done that match up with actions he did in Mini 1061?

[Regfan]

Ethos, what would you describe the attitude of town-el simo as? And what actions has he done that match up with actions he did in Mini 1061?

Town Simo has a tendacy to spend time arguing semantics rather than fully focus on scumhunting, in Mini 1061 he got into a massive play style argument with Retrospective that created a great deal of noise, both of them were town. He started of this game in a similar pattern with his questioning of how AtE is considered to be a scum-tell and what scum motivation would be allocated with it when questioning Yank.

@ Tarson - What's your current thoughts on Lewarcher and Lobster, is there any particular reason you're refraining from voting either of them?

[Ethos]

Mine, won't happen again and if possible you can delete the previous post.

Ethos, what would you describe the attitude of town-el simo as? And what actions has he done that match up with actions he did in Mini 1061?

Town Simo has a tendacy to spend time arguing semantics rather than fully focus on scumhunting, in Mini 1061 he got into a massive play style argument with Retrospective that created a great deal of noise, both of them were town. He started of this game in a similar pattern with his questioning of how AtE is considered to be a scum-tell and what scum motivation would be allocated with it when questioning Yank.

@ Tarson - What's your current thoughts on Lewarcher and Lobster, is there any particular reason you're refraining from voting either of them?

[Ethos]

you said that you think he is scum, and dont believe the claim, but didnt vote for him. i find that scummy.

Since we were so skeptical about wicked's claim yesterday, i'm now not really surprised he is still alive with scum hoping that wicked will be mislynched. HOWEVER, this is a really strange thing that neither the vig nor the "cop" were rbed, and the cop wasn't redirected. it was a big gamble for scum to make, however... im inclined to look into other candidates today as well. this isn't a 2 person scum team.

[LobsterCatapult]

you said that you think he is scum, and dont believe the claim, but didnt vote for him. i find that scummy.

Since we were so skeptical about wicked's claim yesterday, i'm now not really surprised he is still alive with scum hoping that wicked will be mislynched. HOWEVER, this is a really strange thing that neither the vig nor the "cop" were rbed, and the cop wasn't redirected. it was a big gamble for scum to make, however... im inclined to look into other candidates today as well. this isn't a 2 person scum team.

what exactly is your point with this? btw, there was a lot more to rdash that was scummy to me besides this. i voted for her before that.

there is nothing wrong with looking into other people you find scummy at this point in the day with no real pressure for deadline. im unconvinced of his claim, and i think that looking into a lot of different people can help.

and yeah, i want to see what the replacements have to say.

@lewarcher, so do you think its more probable that el simo is scum with wicked or without? im confused. and what do you think of your wagon d1?

[HezLucky]

El Simo, you played with one of our heads in Mini 1061 and the other one was actually spectating and following the entire game.

Lewarcher continues to prove that he replaced into a scum slot, his 'catch-up post' is nonsensical and doesn't involve any legitimate reads nor attempts at any. People need to get of the "LolWickedislynch" mindset and move their vote to join us, alternatively if they somehow are uncomfortable voting Lewarcher they can vote Lobster and we'll join them there.

Grr this is SO TRUE and that slot ever since you replaced in has become so scummy.

BUT LISTEN. WICKED IS THE LYNCH TODAY. I will happily join you on said wagon tomorrow. But here's the problem:

- a crapton of people in this game find Wicked scummy.
- leave him alive one day? next thing you know, he fakes a guilty (or at the rate he is right now he's not even in danger anymore so he'll claim an inno) and ALL OF A SUDDEN THIS MOTHERFUCKER WILL SURVIVE TO ENDGAME.

I will not allow this. This isn't any of that "give Wicked one more day" bullshit. This is a scum that has been caught, has clearly given up (lol look at his activity lately) and is trying to squeeze out ONE more day in hopes that the distraction will cause him to live even LONGER. WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO LYNCH THIS GUY?

Don't piss all over me and tell me "oh I've found the mafia". YO I'VE FOUDN THE FUCKING MAFIA. HE'S SQUIRMING AND HE'S GIVEN UP. YET PEOPLE INSIST ON LEAVING HIM ALIVE. No good can come of this. You leave him alive one day, that day suddenly becomes two days, and three days. Eventually if he's doing well enough, he sacs himself with a fake guilty and town loses.

I WILL NOT HAVE THIS HAPPEN. Wicked. is. the. lynch. today. End of story.

[el simo]

Town Simo has a tendacy to spend time arguing semantics rather than fully focus on scumhunting, in Mini 1061 he got into a massive play style argument with Retrospective that created a great deal of noise, both of them were town. He started of this game in a similar pattern with his questioning of how AtE is considered to be a scum-tell and what scum motivation would be allocated with it when questioning Yank.

Yeah I can't argue with this. I think it would also be wise to note that the attacks on me lurking on not doing much also fit into that specific iso, I ended up replacing out just from pure laziness.

With that said, I don't want to replace out of this game, so like I promised when I have more time over the weekend and the next two weeks I will do my catch up and post more.

For now though.

unvote

.

[el simo]

No I'm a liar that one was because I was leaving overseas nvm.

[Ethos]

Hez, let me address all your points and try to convince you why a Wicked lynch is bad. "A lot of people find Wicked Scummy" - Although I agree with that, more and more people are finding Lew scummy now too. If you give us time to properly pressure him I am confident we could convince more of the town. I'm not asking for a quick-lynch on anyone, I'm asking for everyone to re-examine the game. I am fairly confident if we have a few more back and forths with these two that your minds will be changed. Good things take time.

"Leave him alive one day and he fakes a guilty" - First of all, you are failing to address that if Avast flips scum then he will not live another day. If Avast flips town and Wicked gets a guilty, it will create CCs. Honestly, if avast flipped town, and wicked had a guilty the next day, I would probably be okay with lynching Wicked first just because him-scum with avast town makes a lot of sense. "His activity has dwindled" - If you look, he said he had been really busy the last few days and will be busy a few more on the 14th or 15th (Idk I was at work when I checked and I am too lazy to go back), this is not indicative of alignment.

"Left alive 3 days then he lolwins" - No, this isn't going to happen. We have too many town reads to keep him alive if Avast flips town. We would reread the thread again with avast town in mind, but I highly doubt anything would sway us from lynching anyone

but

Wicked. Now, onto why LC and Avast are the

better

lynches. LC's whole rebuttal to our post literally lacks any stance on Avast. In fact, it lacks any reads at all.

and im not convinced he is scum

, but with so many replacements in this game, being afraid this game would die, and his lynch would gain information,

and no i dont think he is that townie

eh. youre right, i was hoping to get some discussion out of today....but it looks like this is the only way today will be productive.
>_>....

unvote voute:wicked

LC is literally lynching a null read cop claim because she is afraid the game will die if she doesn't. Think about the risk reward benefit of that for a second. LC has a null read on a cop claim. Would you, Hez, as town, lynch a null read cop claim? If you aren't fairly confident he is scum wouldn't you be more hesitant to lynch him? But she happily hops on the wagon without attempting to call Wicked scum and if anything trying to gain herself town-cred for when he flips town.

I guess Yonzy is out now and in comes Vifam, who I think is making up for the dumbassery of his predecessor. Good reasonable defense provided for Yonzy's cluelessness. Time will tell how useful Vifam is, but I'd say currently he's about a 1 on a scale of -5 to 5 (with -5 being confirmed scum and 5 being confirmed town).

Vifam scumtold huge by distancing himself from his derp replacement. Its one of the most reliable tells I have found on my short time here. In the above post avast is supporting this distancing, hardcore.

[lewarcher82]

well, I hardly read the game so far, and I realise that my lack of commitment is damaging the whole game, since the general hot tunneling situation requires much more time and attention than I have. My bad, apparently I can currently only play one game at a time, and the other one I am in luckily has only 5 pages to read.

mod: I apologise but I request replacement

[HezLucky]

Hez, let me address all your points and try to convince you why a Wicked lynch is bad. "A lot of people find Wicked Scummy" - Although I agree with that, more and more people are finding Lew scummy now too. If you give us time to properly pressure him I am confident we could convince more of the town. I'm not asking for a quick-lynch on anyone, I'm asking for everyone to re-examine the game. I am fairly confident if we have a few more back and forths with these two that your minds will be changed. Good things take time.

You won't be able to convince me a Wicked lynch is bad. He is my top scumread right now by far. (though, as I mentioned earlier, I liked one of your points on avast)

Leave him alive one day and he fakes a guilty" - First of all, you are failing to address that if Avast flips scum then he will not live another day. If Avast flips town and Wicked gets a guilty, it will create CCs. Honestly, if avast flipped town, and wicked had a guilty the next day, I would probably be okay with lynching Wicked first just because him-scum with avast town makes a lot of sense. "His activity has dwindled" - If you look, he said he had been really busy the last few days and will be busy a few more on the 14th or 15th (Idk I was at work when I checked and I am too lazy to go back), this is not indicative of alignment.

Please explain to me why Avast and Wicked absolutely must have different alignments. A big part of your argument hinges on this, and I don't see it at all.

"Left alive 3 days then he lolwins" - No, this isn't going to happen. We have too many town reads to keep him alive if Avast flips town. We would reread the thread again with avast town in mind, but I highly doubt anything would sway us from lynching anyone but Wicked. Now, onto why LC and Avast are the better lynches. LC's whole rebuttal to our post literally lacks any stance on Avast. In fact, it lacks any reads at all.

This sounds nice to me. We lynch avast today, if he flips town, we lynch wicked tomorrow, right? That sounds great. IN THEORY. In practice, it's just one more day that Wicked stays alive. One more day that he can lead the town astray, fakeclaim a result that puts him in a better position, and pray.

I have a superduper scumread on Wicked and I refuse to leave him alive for ANY reason.

LC is literally lynching a null read cop claim because she is afraid the game will die if she doesn't. Think about the risk reward benefit of that for a second. LC has a null read on a cop claim. Would you, Hez, as town, lynch a null read cop claim? If you aren't fairly confident he is scum wouldn't you be more hesitant to lynch him? But she happily hops on the wagon without attempting to call Wicked scum and if anything trying to gain herself town-cred for when he flips town

I wouldn't lynch a null read period, unless by POE most of the rest of the town was in my "townread" column. If LC doesn't have scumreads, however, she could be sheeping. Given that we are 1 for 1 in catching scum, I can hardly hold her against doing that.

(though I'm biased -- if she's willing to lynch Wicked, i'm willing to defend her)

[HezLucky]

With a day one scumlynch in a mini I'm thinking one of the scum HAS to be set up for the long haul.

This is why I utterly cannot be convinced of Wicked and Avast having to have different alignments.

[Ethos]

No, they aren't scum together is more or less what I am saying.

Its marginally possible they are both town, but it would be like you calling 2 of your top 3 FoSs town: its unlikely.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3292945

This and a lot of Wicked's iso is why they arent scum together.

[HezLucky]

No, they aren't scum together is more or less what I am saying.

Its marginally possible they are both town, but it would be like you calling 2 of your top 3 FoSs town: its unlikely.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3292945

This and a lot of Wicked's iso is why they arent scum together.

On the contrary, this post is a great way for wicked to, you know, WIN THE GAME. Especially given that the above post came something like 100 posts BEFORE wicked actually claimed cop.