Mini 1211: Murder in Sicily [Over]

[Maruchan]

It seems almost too convenient that things should happen this way.

You mean, it seams almost too convenient that I would jail the person I spend all of day one saying I want lynched because I think he is scum, and end up finding scum? I don't see convenience in this just saying. I see a logical process that leads to scum.

however once I actually read your plan, I am sure I will be okay with it, even though it will probably waste a night for town.

[Maruchan]

UNVOTE: just in case
VOTE: Xvart feel kinda bad for xvart :/

I TOLD you we should of lynched MusicNinja rather than wait for a replacement, just so they can come in for five minutes.

[Whiskers]

Still waiting on that five-minute VCA, Maruchan.

Hikari Link, WHERE were you confirmed to be cop?

[Maruchan]

Okaaaay... then, how do wefigure out what is most likely-- how can we figure out how many scum there are? ;____;

Considering a Mini should have a fairly standard setup (it IS "Normal," after all), what do we go by? 1/4? 1/3? Is it too early to speculate scumteams (with 2 out of possibly four caught)?

[Preedit]
What if YOU are scum? You have us all pretty much convinced, but so does Maruchan.

How about the Doc protects Maruchan, Maruchan Jailkeeps you, then YOU investigate somepony else. That way, if YOU get killed, we know Maruchan is scum, if MARUCHAN gets killed, we know there is no Doc, and if there is no kill, then everypony did their jobs.

Also, how about a Maruchan/Hikari Link scumteam? You two are the most greatest posters, both power roles, both outting scum on your first shots and both apparently brilliant. And now bussing.

So you're saying that:
1. There is no cop in this setup
2. If there IS a cop, this cop was an idiot and did not CC when there were two claimed cops.
3. Hikari Link bussed his cop-claiming mafia bud by claiming cop, with no planning whatsoever (as he replaced in)
4. Hikari Link is going to plan a DOUBLE bus, effectively screwing all chances of the mafia winning
5. Hikari Link will risk the question of "How are you still alive?" 6 days from now, when the doctor dies 3 days from now (since scum will survive, with or without doctor protection)
6. All of this was thought up by someone who replaced-in, so therefore had no way to plan to bus bob, and had to way to plan my breadcrumbing of jailer?


I SMELL SHENANIGANS!

[Whiskers]

Monk, you are browsing, lurking. I am officially prodding you, citizen's-arrest style.

Unvote.
Vote: monk

[PreEdit]

._____________________________________________.


...Yeah, okay.
Except for 6, where your breadcrumbing had nothing to do with it.

[Whiskers]

Sorry, [EBWOP]:
Except for 6, where your breadcrumbing had nothing to do with

him

. Regardless of your alignments, you still could have done that.

Yeah, okay. Real cop WOULD have Cced at that point.

[Whiskers]

monk is gone, no longer browsing the thing.

Unvote. Vote: xvart

[Maruchan]

Well shit. That was not what I expected to happen. It is true, I didn't go anywhere last night but I don't have an ability to use, either. Needless to say I didn't see how the game was balanced with a cop, doctor (or protective variant), plus a one shot tracker; so I tried to fish out a reaction from him since I didn't believe the claim for a second. I do have to wonder though about someone so willing to claim a role and apparently fluent in breadcrumbing to desire to reveal results when he could have easily breadcrumbed results and still lived to be of benefit to the town.

I still need to process this some more but one of two things is now apparent:

1. Maruchan is either fake claiming scum who no killed last night to make his claim believable while still not being tied to the claim when I flip town; or,
   
2. I was the NK target last night.

I am not actually fluent in bread-crumbing. I was browsing the site. clicking links in people's signature, as i do when I get bored, whe nI stumbled across [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p3029436]THIS[/utl] topic (I've linked you to a specific post, but the lin kwas to the topic in general)

I then read the replies, and saw Vi mention HIS guide, so I clicked the link in his signature, which takes me to his wiki guide. Near the bottom of his wiki guide, he mentioned this exact form of bread-crumbing I used, and I started using it with my next post.

As for my second breadcrumb this is what it stood for: "When Someone Claims He Was Scum Target They Are His Partner"
Why? You were the top scum suspect of almost EVERY player here. Why would the scum target their best mis-lynch?

[Maruchan]

Sorry, [EBWOP]:
Except for 6, where your breadcrumbing had nothing to do with

him

. Regardless of your alignments, you still could have done that.

Yeah, okay. Real cop WOULD have Cced at that point.

yes but he couldn't have replied it

as for your post asking for my vote count analysis, when I came back 5 minutes later to start it, yo uall had taking a energy pill towards activity, so I have been busy replying to posts rather than counting

[Whiskers]

Holy fuck, son. I apparently need to read that guide all the way through. I got a little ways in and got bored, but if it makes you play like this.
Holy fuck.

[PreEdit]
Oh, I thought you were saying you were going to have it /ready/ in five minutes.

[Hikari Link]

FOR EMPHASIS, So it doesn't get lost:

Doc protects Maruchan, Maruchan jailkeeps Hikari Link. Works the same way as Hikari Link's plan, but risks getting himself killed rather than killing Maruchan.

I'm confirmed Cop, so this idea is bad.

WTF. Confirmed by whom?

Now that I think about it, I'm not. I was working it out under the assumption that I were Mafia and was trying to make it look like a Doc existed. Basically I was thinking that I would have purposely had no night kill, in which case xvart had no reason to say he had done anything because he hadn't. But then I realized that only works if I I had been trying to make sure it looked like a Doc exists for some reason. But upon closer inspection, I realized that there were potential other branches that it could have taken, had I been scum. So I am not confirmed Cop. Sorry, my mistake.

Okaaaay... then, how do wefigure out what is most likely-- how can we figure out how many scum there are? ;____;

Considering a Mini should have a fairly standard setup (it IS "Normal," after all), what do we go by? 1/4? 1/3? Is it too early to speculate scumteams (with 2 out of possibly four caught)?

[Preedit]
What if YOU are scum? You have us all pretty much convinced, but so does Maruchan.

How about the Doc protects Maruchan, Maruchan Jailkeeps you, then YOU investigate somepony else. That way, if YOU get killed, we know Maruchan is scum, if MARUCHAN gets killed, we know there is no Doc, and if there is no kill, then everypony did their jobs.

Also, how about a Maruchan/Hikari Link scumteam? You two are the most greatest posters, both power roles, both outting scum on your first shots and both apparently brilliant. And now bussing.

So you're saying that:
1. There is no cop in this setup
2. If there IS a cop, this cop was an idiot and did not CC when there were two claimed cops.
3. Hikari Link bussed his cop-claiming mafia bud by claiming cop, with no planning whatsoever (as he replaced in)
4. Hikari Link is going to plan a DOUBLE bus, effectively screwing all chances of the mafia winning
5. Hikari Link will risk the question of "How are you still alive?" 6 days from now, when the doctor dies 3 days from now (since scum will survive, with or without doctor protection)
6. All of this was thought up by someone who replaced-in, so therefore had no way to plan to bus bob, and had to way to plan my breadcrumbing of jailer?


I SMELL SHENANIGANS!

It's possible, that one of these things happened, yes. Or another thing you haven't listed.

No, what worries me is the willingness with which xvart went along with it. And how conveniently you just happened to get the right guy. If he's scum, why would they send him out when he's a pretty high read for many? If he were town, why would scum target him? Either way it doesn't add up to well. But if you were Godfather, I'd never find out and you'd have little reason not to plan this whole charade out, considering how likely MusicNinja was to get discovered anyway. And by bussing him, you'd get major town cred.

Also, what does that breadcrumb even mean?

[Maruchan]

Holy fuck, son. I apparently need to read that guide all the way through. I got a little ways in and got bored, but if it makes you play like this.
Holy fuck.

I usually try to out-think myself. usually this leads to bad-results. I think in the case of this game it led to good results however. ^_^

[monk]

Im half browsing on my phone in a lecture. There is always the chance that there is a doctor in our setup and that they did the logical thing and protected Link. However the next two mafia flips should be power roles otherwise i think that town has too much power.
I half believe xvart purely because he played the same way in the last game he was in and we caught the rest of the scum team quite quickly after it, xvart can we get a catchup post?

[Maruchan]

It's possible, that one of these things happened, yes. Or another thing you haven't listed.

No, what worries me is the willingness with which xvart went along with it. And how conveniently you just happened to get the right guy. If he's scum, why would they send him out when he's a pretty high read for many? If he were town, why would scum target him? Either way it doesn't add up to well. But if you were Godfather, I'd never find out and you'd have little reason not to plan this whole charade out, considering how likely MusicNinja was to get discovered anyway. And by bussing him, you'd get major town cred.

Also, what does that breadcrumb even mean?

Whiskers, this is where that me out thinking myself leads to bad-results I just mentioned.

Anyways, Link brings up some really good points. However, all of his points revolve around the "my bussing him".

Which is a viable strategy, but still means he is scum. In which case we do Whisker's plan. I jail you, you investigate a random, and the doctor (if any) is on me. If I die, no doctor. If you die, I am scum (yes, this option sucks for you Link, but this is a fair trade-off for the town. 3 scum for 1 cop). If neither of us die, then I am confirmed, and you're still likely-town.

[Friend]

Awesome. We nailed xvart.

Why isn't he dead yet?

[Bub Bidderskins]

"Where's Scumhunter?"

The town erupts into chaos. People run ever which way screaming at the top of their lungs. Chaos reigns as the pews are turned on end and the stain-glass windows are shattered. Then, a calm voice penetrates the madness.

"I was just in the bathroom!"

Everyone stops in their tracks, and all eyes slowly gaze over towards Scumhunter.

oops[/i]

Nobody died Night One

Are we able to take this flavor to mean Scumhunter was targeted for ANY kill (whether town-sided or scum-sided), and wasn't killed, or did you chose a random name? rlly imprtnt qeston!

The flavor means absolutely with regards to the actual game and its only purpose is your enjoyment.

Bub: Are you the kind of Mod who would throw in a "Gondolier"-flavoured role?

Wait, do they even have Gondolas in Sicily?

I'm just looking for a yes or no, and I understand that it may or may not have nothing to do with this particular game.

I can't comment on the setup.

@Mod: Did Tovarish pick up his Day 2 PM yet? he didn't post for 50 hours before the night started. & Has Monk picked it up yet?

I will prod him if he hasn't posted within 48 hours of day start. I can't tell if he picked the PM up or not because it was a mass PM to everybody.

[Maruchan]

oh, I forgot to answer your question about the breadcrumb. Which one, and elaborate he question better?

[Bub Bidderskins]

Vote count 2.1

(4) Xvart: Maruchan, Friend, Hiraki Link, Noramp [L-3]

(1) Tovarish: iamausername [L-6]

(1) monk: Whiskers [L-6]

(6) Not voting: Panacea, xvart, Scumhunter, Substrike22, monk, Tovarish

With

12

alive it will take

7

to lynch.

Day Two Deadline

[Maruchan]

Awesome. We nailed xvart.

Why isn't he dead yet?

Friend for plausible scum-partner?

He isn't dead yet because we need to plan what we are doing tonight before we kill him.

[Hikari Link]

It's possible, that one of these things happened, yes. Or another thing you haven't listed.

No, what worries me is the willingness with which xvart went along with it. And how conveniently you just happened to get the right guy. If he's scum, why would they send him out when he's a pretty high read for many? If he were town, why would scum target him? Either way it doesn't add up to well. But if you were Godfather, I'd never find out and you'd have little reason not to plan this whole charade out, considering how likely MusicNinja was to get discovered anyway. And by bussing him, you'd get major town cred.

Also, what does that breadcrumb even mean?

Whiskers, this is where that me out thinking myself leads to bad-results I just mentioned.

Anyways, Link brings up some really good points. However, all of his points revolve around the "my bussing him".

Which is a viable strategy, but still means he is scum. In which case we do Whisker's plan. I jail you, you investigate a random, and the doctor (if any) is on me. If I die, no doctor. If you die, I am scum (yes, this option sucks for you Link, but this is a fair trade-off for the town. 3 scum for 1 cop). If neither of us die, then I am confirmed, and you're still likely-town.

Wait, explain the part where the logical step is that we use Whiskers plan because you are bussing xvart?

[Maruchan]

Vote count 2.1

(4) Xvart: Maruchan, Friend, Hiraki Link, Noramp [L-3]

(1) Tovarish: iamausername [L-6]

(1) monk: Whiskers [L-6]

(6) Not voting: Panacea, xvart, Scumhunter, Substrike22, monk, Tovarish

With

12

alive it will take

7

to lynch.

Day Two Deadline

I believe whiskers unvoted and revoted xvart

If so, UNVOTE:

I don't want him to hammer himself to keep the town from planning.

[Maruchan]

It's possible, that one of these things happened, yes. Or another thing you haven't listed.

No, what worries me is the willingness with which xvart went along with it. And how conveniently you just happened to get the right guy. If he's scum, why would they send him out when he's a pretty high read for many? If he were town, why would scum target him? Either way it doesn't add up to well. But if you were Godfather, I'd never find out and you'd have little reason not to plan this whole charade out, considering how likely MusicNinja was to get discovered anyway. And by bussing him, you'd get major town cred.

Also, what does that breadcrumb even mean?

Whiskers, this is where that me out thinking myself leads to bad-results I just mentioned.

Anyways, Link brings up some really good points. However, all of his points revolve around the "my bussing him".

Which is a viable strategy, but still means he is scum. In which case we do Whisker's plan. I jail you, you investigate a random, and the doctor (if any) is on me. If I die, no doctor. If you die, I am scum (yes, this option sucks for you Link, but this is a fair trade-off for the town. 3 scum for 1 cop). If neither of us die, then I am confirmed, and you're still likely-town.

Wait, explain the part where the logical step is that we use Whiskers plan because you are bussing xvart?

Everything that has been proposed so far is that one of the following is true A: I'm legit, B: I am bussing, C: xvart is town who was idiot and actually claimed to be trying to kill me when he thinks I caught him, then backtracks when he finds out it was a lie.

I think C is highly unlikely because, A: Why would he do that? B: his predecessor was scummy as hell (hence the night action) C: his biggest defense is that he was scum-target? (lolno)

In which case Whisker's strategy is the best plan, because we then lynch scum, and we guarantee that I am not bussing my partner, or we do a tradeoff, scum for jailer.

[Maruchan]

Or we lose a cop, and find out I am scum, and we get rid of THREE scum.

[Hikari Link]

It's possible, that one of these things happened, yes. Or another thing you haven't listed.

No, what worries me is the willingness with which xvart went along with it. And how conveniently you just happened to get the right guy. If he's scum, why would they send him out when he's a pretty high read for many? If he were town, why would scum target him? Either way it doesn't add up to well. But if you were Godfather, I'd never find out and you'd have little reason not to plan this whole charade out, considering how likely MusicNinja was to get discovered anyway. And by bussing him, you'd get major town cred.

Also, what does that breadcrumb even mean?

Whiskers, this is where that me out thinking myself leads to bad-results I just mentioned.

Anyways, Link brings up some really good points. However, all of his points revolve around the "my bussing him".

Which is a viable strategy, but still means he is scum. In which case we do Whisker's plan. I jail you, you investigate a random, and the doctor (if any) is on me. If I die, no doctor. If you die, I am scum (yes, this option sucks for you Link, but this is a fair trade-off for the town. 3 scum for 1 cop). If neither of us die, then I am confirmed, and you're still likely-town.

Wait, explain the part where the logical step is that we use Whiskers plan because you are bussing xvart?

Everything that has been proposed so far is that one of the following is true A: I'm legit, B: I am bussing, C: xvart is town who was idiot and actually claimed to be trying to kill me when he thinks I caught him, then backtracks when he finds out it was a lie.

I think C is highly unlikely because, A: Why would he do that? B: his predecessor was scummy as hell (hence the night action) C: his biggest defense is that he was scum-target? (lolno)

In which case Whisker's strategy is the best plan, because we then lynch scum, and we guarantee that I am not bussing my partner, or we do a tradeoff, scum for jailer.

I'm trying to find the part where it's preferable that I die rather than you. My way, if you are scum, we get three scum and we keep our Cop and if you are town, we keep our cop. On the other hand, with your plan, If you are town, you most likely die unless there is a Doc, which I find unlikely if you are Jailkeeper, though if he exists admittedly we keep both PRs. If you are scum, however, we lose our cop because I die for sure. So to chart this out:

Link Plan

scumMaruchan: Keep cop, gain a report (possibility of Godfather lynch)
townMaruchan: Lose JK, no report

Whiskers Plan

scumMaruchan: Lose cop, no JK, no report
townMaruchan: Lose JK, no report (possibility keep both)

My plan stands to gain more if you are scum. Whiskers's plan stands to gain more if, and only if, a Doc exists. Otherwise, it's just a worse version of my plan. That in itself is an unknown gamble and you said yourself that I'm more important to the town than you, did you not? So it stands to reason that the plan that keeps me alive over you is the better one, no?

[Hikari Link]

I just realized my plus only works if we have a Doc too...